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Roads that cross themselves

Started by hotdogPi, January 01, 2020, 11:44:12 AM

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webny99

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 11, 2022, 03:07:54 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 06, 2022, 06:35:49 PM
If grade-separated examples count, US 63 crosses itself in Red Wing, MN.  :D

Can't the same be said about any highway that transitions freeways through a cloverleaf?  See I-55 in Menphis.

Yes, but for one direction only. This one was both directions prior to the redesign (and now it doesn't qualify at all).


1995hoo

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 01, 2020, 01:51:54 PM
How can a street intersect with itself?   It must be the nexus of the universe!

Fairly easily, such as where Colesbury Place intersects itself in Fairfax, Virginia. (That's a map link, not Street View, but if you click into Street View you can see the two street signs with the same name.)
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Dirt Roads

Quote from: OracleUsr on January 04, 2020, 12:03:52 AM
I-77 Charlotte

I don't think that's what the OP was thinking, but there's an even better example of swapping lanes in North Carolina:  crossover I-85 for the Thomasville rest area near MM 99.  It is actually two separate rest areas for northbound and southbound, but they are co-located in the median. (I've never stopped there, and always assumed that it was one shared facility).

1995hoo

^^^^

It's not–each side has its own parking and toilets–but the state's Vietnam Veterans Memorial is in between the two rest area facilities and can be accessed from both sides. I've stopped at the northbound rest area but have never walked down to the memorial for whatever reason.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

pderocco

Quote from: Dirt Roads on October 15, 2022, 09:53:11 AM
... there's an even better example of swapping lanes in North Carolina:  crossover I-85 for the Thomasville rest area near MM 99.  It is actually two separate rest areas for northbound and southbound, but they are co-located in the median. (I've never stopped there, and always assumed that it was one shared facility).

There's probably an AA thread on this type of road elsewhere, but as long as people are mentioning them here, there's the Beeline Highway, AZ-87, about 35 miles NW of Mesa. And the longest one of all, I-5 just north of Castaic, CA, known as the Five Mile Grade, 4.5 miles of which is swapped. That's a particularly dramatic one because of the big canyon between the two sides, and the wide visibility.

pderocco

Two rather spectacular elevation-gaining loops in Asia:

https://goo.gl/maps/SKvcdpG52sy3cYfD9 -- Being in China, the road data and the imagery are offset from each other so the bombs will miss their targets, and no Street View. But in Google Earth, there's a decent 3D model of the bridge.

https://goo.gl/maps/hgGimsiipcxa5HUc7 -- Too bad there's no 3D imagery here, but the Street View captures it well.


MultiMillionMiler

Does the OP mean roads where the lanes simply cross over each other (like the Jersey Turnpike) or where they follow a spiral path? Any road that may have too sharp an increase in grade may have to use a spiral to gradually get higher or lower, or possibly follow a spiral path to get out of a mountainous area and it has to follow the valleys. Beltway are just circles, cities like Houston have 2 complete beltways, arguably 3, but if they were all the same road in a spiral pattern that wouldn't make sense. Any roads that cross themselves in a loop and then continue on elsewhere not for the reasons above, are most likely the result of the way they were numbered, and it's just connecting roads. Unsure.

roadman65

#57
It means what it says. You cross another road. Remain on your road for a great distance and you eventually end up at the same intersection on the crossroad.

Breezewood, PA has this sort of.  You head east on I-70 and you cross under the I-70 you will eventually be on later.  Though the alignment changes twice at US 30 though.  If I-70 didn’t change twice at US 30 and remained continuous it would be perfect example.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

MultiMillionMiler

That's more than a cross-over, that's a straight up gap in the interstate. You have to take US 30 to get on the remaining north-south section. If it wasn't for that gap, it would just be like any basic interchange, you cross under the overpass, get off at the exit, and end up on the overpass you just drove under. I thought this thread was talking about local roads where you may actually be able to turn onto the same place you crossed over in both places, meaning you went nowhere, which would make 0 sense. But expressways doing that are obviously trying to work there way around the terrain.

kphoger

Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on October 29, 2022, 10:40:50 AM
Does the OP mean roads where the lanes simply cross over each other (like the Jersey Turnpike) or where they follow a spiral path?

Did you even read the OP?

Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on October 29, 2022, 11:12:48 AM
I thought this thread was talking about local roads where you may actually be able to turn onto the same place you crossed over in both places, meaning you went nowhere, which would make 0 sense. But expressways doing that are obviously trying to work there way around the terrain.

Examples have been given already that make sense, such as...

Quote from: 1995hoo on October 15, 2022, 08:46:47 AM
... where Colesbury Place intersects itself in Fairfax, Virginia. (That's a map link, not Street View, but if you click into Street View you can see the two street signs with the same name.)

However, in my opinion, there's a subtle difference between "intersecting" and "crossing".  In my mind, it's hard to consider a T-intersection as a "crossing"
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

kirbykart

Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on October 29, 2022, 11:12:48 AM
That's more than a cross-over, that's a straight up gap in the interstate. You have to take US 30 to get on the remaining north-south section. If it wasn't for that gap, it would just be like any basic interchange, you cross under the overpass, get off at the exit, and end up on the overpass you just drove under.

No it's a crossover. See this: https://goo.gl/maps/8rNjbxRErqfKpYoJA
Here you can plainly see that I-70 crosses itself, and I-70 EB actually crosses twice.

kirbykart

^Yes, that section of US-30 is I-70, and the loop is the second crossover.

Kentucky Route 620 has nothing to do with this, although it is a strange route for sure.

MultiMillionMiler

Is that section of US-30 limited access, or is it another example of non-limited access stretches of interstate?

The double cross over is really weird, wonder why they build it like that. Also funny how the Pennsylvania Turnpike has like 4 different designations along its length.

1995hoo

Quote from: kphoger on October 31, 2022, 10:47:00 AM
Examples have been given already that make sense, such as...

Quote from: 1995hoo on October 15, 2022, 08:46:47 AM
... where Colesbury Place intersects itself in Fairfax, Virginia. (That's a map link, not Street View, but if you click into Street View you can see the two street signs with the same name.)

However, in my opinion, there's a subtle difference between "intersecting" and "crossing".  In my mind, it's hard to consider a T-intersection as a "crossing"

I agree with your comment, but if you look back at my full post, you'll see I was responding to a comment about a street intersecting with itself. (Of course I recognize that the comment to which I was responding was either sarcastic or snarky, but that wasn't going to stop me from giving an example.)
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

kphoger

Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

CtrlAltDel

#65
Quote from: kphoger on November 01, 2022, 10:35:50 AM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on November 01, 2022, 08:31:17 AM
... because it isn't on the map ...

Yes it is.

That said, I don't believe that that it of US-30 is officially part of I-70. I haven't been able to verify, but I think it's officially a gap.



For what it's worth, the Penn DOT One Map of the area looks like this:



https://gis.penndot.gov/onemap/
Interstates clinched: 4, 57, 275 (IN-KY-OH), 465 (IN), 640 (TN), 985
State Interstates clinched: I-26 (TN), I-75 (GA), I-75 (KY), I-75 (TN), I-81 (WV), I-95 (NH)

roadman65

Might as well be part of I-70 being PennDOT or PTC will never build a proper interchange.  I-73 in Ohio has a better chance of being completed than that.

Anyway that's why said sort of.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

vdeane

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on November 01, 2022, 10:43:07 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 01, 2022, 10:35:50 AM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on November 01, 2022, 08:31:17 AM
... because it isn't on the map ...

Yes it is.

That said, I don't believe that that it of US-30 is officially part of I-70. I haven't been able to verify, but I think it's officially a gap.



For what it's worth, the Penn DOT One Map of the area looks like this:



https://gis.penndot.gov/onemap/
According to the NHS map, it's US 30 alone; the ramps from the PTC don't even register, though they have I-70 shields on the basemap.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

kirbykart

Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on November 01, 2022, 09:58:33 AM
Is that section of US-30 limited access

The fact that you don't understand Breezewood makes it so clear you are brand-new here.

kphoger

Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

MultiMillionMiler

Quote from: kirbykart on November 01, 2022, 01:02:40 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on November 01, 2022, 09:58:33 AM
Is that section of US-30 limited access

The fact that you don't understand Breezewood makes it so clear you are brand-new here.

I just joined a week ago lol, you're right, even just looking at it on the map is confusing, why did they build it like that?

kirbykart

^The local businesses protested a direct interchange.

roadman65

The realignment of the PA Turnpike when Rays and Sideling Hill Tunnels got bypassed is what made it what it was today.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

zzcarp

Quote from: roadman65 on November 01, 2022, 01:41:08 PM
The realignment of the PA Turnpike when Rays and Sideling Hill Tunnels got bypassed is what made it what it was today.

That, the original prohibition of spending federal funds on direct interstate to toll road connections. And, as Kirbykart said, the local business interests and other PennDOT/Turnpike priorities helped keep the interchange the same to the consternation of many travelers and roadgeeks.
So many miles and so many roads

Avalanchez71




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