I-14 in Texas

[texaskdog]

I believe the plan is to keep the Brazos crossing near Hearne as both the main channel and floodplain are relatively narrow there compared to points further south. Yours would create an extremely long (read: expensive) crossing. With global warming increasing the likelihood of major flooding, any new construction, especially an Interstate, needs to be done with that in mind.

If you believe global warming.  they've been saying we have 10 years left for the last 30, I think we're good.

[sprjus4]

I believe the plan is to keep the Brazos crossing near Hearne as both the main channel and floodplain are relatively narrow there compared to points further south. Yours would create an extremely long (read: expensive) crossing. With global warming increasing the likelihood of major flooding, any new construction, especially an Interstate, needs to be done with that in mind.

If you believe global warming.  they've been saying we have 10 years left for the last 30, I think we're good.

[hotdogPi]

There is no magic number of years that we must stop everything by. The more we wait, the worse it gets, but there's no such thing as "we only have 10 years before we all die". Human extinction is far down the list of changes, but if we don't do anything to fix global warming for the next 50 years, we will see some other changes that are still quite major, such as extinction of many species, flooded coastlines (a few feet, not the 200 that some were predicting), and increased intensity of hurricanes. We're already seeing some changes.

Responses should be made with actual arguments, not name-calling.

[sprjus4]

If the last 50 years are any indication, there's not going to be "major"  changes. Things are changing, that's for sure, but not near the extent that's often claimed to build up hysteria. For example, the entire east coast is not going to be underwater in 50 years. Sea level rise may occur to some extent (2-3 ft) but not to the extreme levels many believe.

There's also the belief all of these issues are human created. Again, this may be true to a certain extent, but could this also not be a natural occurrence? Cycles like this have happened in Earth's history and will continue into the future. To say human's have caused climate change is a stretch. It's always been happening, and it's just continuing its course.

[hotdogPi]

If the oceans rise 3 feet in 50 years (I don't know the exact numbers), and the trend continues, they will be up approximately 60 feet in 1000 years. It will be quite bad, but it doesn't seem that way looking at just our lifetimes.

Also, it's definitely human caused. The change in temperature that we've seen in the last 100 years is by far the most it has been in any 100-year period. Cycles are much slower, taking at least 1000 years for any change like the one in our lifetime. (There are some faster-moving cycles, and this is the reason why temperatures in 1940-1970 stayed the same instead of increasing, but since we have data from 1880 to now, it cancels out over long periods of time.)

[texaskdog]

If you believe global warming.  they've been saying we have 10 years left for the last 30, I think we're good.

Idiot.

Chicken little

[Rothman]

If you believe global warming.  they've been saying we have 10 years left for the last 30, I think we're good.

Idiot.

Chicken little

Wait...they were saying 10 years left until what now?

[texaskdog]

If the oceans rise 3 feet in 50 years (I don't know the exact numbers), and the trend continues, they will be up approximately 60 feet in 1000 years. It will be quite bad, but it doesn't seem that way looking at just our lifetimes.

Also, it's definitely human caused. The change in temperature that we've seen in the last 100 years is by far the most it has been in any 100-year period. Cycles are much slower, taking at least 1000 years for any change like the one in our lifetime. (There are some faster-moving cycles, and this is the reason why temperatures in 1940-1970 stayed the same instead of increasing, but since we have data from 1880 to now, it cancels out over long periods of time.)

ah, no.  they had a global cooling and the average went down 20 degrees BEFORE we had cars, I believe it was the middle ages.  also there was something called the ice age, where we had glaciers down to Wisconsin.  and then volcanos.  nothing we can do will remotely compare to what nature dishes out.  plus the doom and gloomers have been saying 10-12 years for over 30 years. 

[texaskdog]

If you believe global warming.  they've been saying we have 10 years left for the last 30, I think we're good.

Idiot.

Chicken little

Wait...they were saying 10 years left until what now?

UNTIL WE ALL DIE>>>>BECAUSE YOU DRIVE YOUR CAR TO WORK.  Keep in mind al gore built a house on the ocean, Bloomberg owns several helicopters, Leonardo didouchebag flies a private jet to go pick up an award and tells you not to drive a car.  We have a candidate for senate who says she's "fighting climate change" in a commercial while she's flying a helicopter.   you know what....I don't litter...I often pick up the trash of others.  I bring my own bags to the store.  I combine trips.  I work from home when I can.  I'm way more of an environmentalist than those phonies will ever be.  Yes we need to clean the rivers, and keep factories from polluting, but we also need to stop being hypocrites. 

[Rothman]

*citation needed*

[sprjus4]

If you believe global warming.  they've been saying we have 10 years left for the last 30, I think we're good.

Idiot.

Chicken little

Wait...they were saying 10 years left until what now?

UNTIL WE ALL DIE>>>>BECAUSE YOU DRIVE YOUR CAR TO WORK.  Keep in mind al gore built a house on the ocean, Bloomberg owns several helicopters, Leonardo didouchebag flies a private jet to go pick up an award and tells you not to drive a car.  We have a candidate for senate who says she's "fighting climate change" in a commercial while she's flying a helicopter.   you know what....I don't litter...I often pick up the trash of others.  I bring my own bags to the store.  I combine trips.  I work from home when I can.  I'm way more of an environmentalist than those phonies will ever be.  Yes we need to clean the rivers, and keep factories from polluting, but we also need to stop being hypocrites.

This ^

[Rothman]

If you believe global warming.  they've been saying we have 10 years left for the last 30, I think we're good.

Idiot.

Chicken little

Wait...they were saying 10 years left until what now?

UNTIL WE ALL DIE>>>>BECAUSE YOU DRIVE YOUR CAR TO WORK.  Keep in mind al gore built a house on the ocean, Bloomberg owns several helicopters, Leonardo didouchebag flies a private jet to go pick up an award and tells you not to drive a car.  We have a candidate for senate who says she's "fighting climate change" in a commercial while she's flying a helicopter.   you know what....I don't litter...I often pick up the trash of others.  I bring my own bags to the store.  I combine trips.  I work from home when I can.  I'm way more of an environmentalist than those phonies will ever be.  Yes we need to clean the rivers, and keep factories from polluting, but we also need to stop being hypocrites.

This ^

Wait...so Al Gore, Leonardo DiCaprio and Bloomberg are the ones we should turn to for expertise?  Or, because they're hypocrites, manmade climate change isn't real?

[sprjus4]

If you believe global warming.  they've been saying we have 10 years left for the last 30, I think we're good.

Idiot.

Chicken little

Wait...they were saying 10 years left until what now?

UNTIL WE ALL DIE>>>>BECAUSE YOU DRIVE YOUR CAR TO WORK.  Keep in mind al gore built a house on the ocean, Bloomberg owns several helicopters, Leonardo didouchebag flies a private jet to go pick up an award and tells you not to drive a car.  We have a candidate for senate who says she's "fighting climate change" in a commercial while she's flying a helicopter.   you know what....I don't litter...I often pick up the trash of others.  I bring my own bags to the store.  I combine trips.  I work from home when I can.  I'm way more of an environmentalist than those phonies will ever be.  Yes we need to clean the rivers, and keep factories from polluting, but we also need to stop being hypocrites.

This ^

Wait...so Al Gore, Leonardo DiCaprio and Bloomberg are the ones we should turn to for expertise?  Or, because they're hypocrites, manmade climate change isn't real?

No, but those are some examples of the people / hypocrites (along with many others politicians with an agenda & money flowing their way) who blow the situation out of proportion and drive hysteria about the situation.

I'm not saying it's not real, but it's certainly not to the levels it's often said to be and people are overreacting as a result out of ignorance. For instance, there's people who truly believe the Earth will end in 10 - 15 years if we don't spend trillions of dollars tomorrow to go green. That's another thing - the politicians who drive hysteria seem to want trillions of dollars poured into the cause to "save the Earth" often using fear-mongering to get support of ignorant people.

[Rothman]

Who believes that the world will end in ten to fifteen years if we don't take serious measures now?

[hotdogPi]

Even if we do stop it, things will continue to get worse, but not nearly as much as if we don't do anything. Glaciers take time to melt, and record highs and 100-year floods don't occur every year. Anyone saying "we have 10 years" was saying that we have 10 years before death is inevitable, not 10 years before we die instantly. 10 is too low, though.

We also need a thread split.

[SectorZ]

We also need a thread split.

You mean to tell me the past page of comments has nothing to do with I-14?

[J N Winkler]

Owing to this thread wandering off topic onto the broader issue of climate change and the rising temperature of discussion, I am locking it temporarily, for 48 hours.

[J N Winkler]

This topic is now reopened for discussion.  A few posts have been moved out of sight owing to failure to follow forum guidelines.  Any further discussion of climate change can remain in this thread as long as it deals with the I-14 corridor in Texas specifically; discussion of climate change in general belongs in a separate thread in Off-Topic, which anyone is free to create.

[texaskdog]

So, having driven US 190 and it's one of the remaining old school US highways that zigzags, how will they put I-14 in in a way that makes sense?

[sprjus4]

So, having driven US 190 and it's one of the remaining old school US highways that zigzags, how will they put I-14 in in a way that makes sense?

The interstate would be built fully on new location between Bryan and Rogers, generally following the existing route, but in a much straighter path. The distance between Temple and Bryan / College Station would be significantly reduced and travel times would improve about 25 minutes.

http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot/ppd/meetings/021820/presentation.pdf

It's been argued that Austin <-> Houston interstate should be a higher priority, but keep in mind that route is already 4-lanes divided expressway. This route is 2-lane road, zig-zag, and passes through towns. There's a greater need to get this route completed than an interstate along SH-71 or US-290. Ideally, both will get done eventually, but the 4-lane divided expressway is more than adequate and already provides interstate speeds (65 - 75 mph). The priority on that route should be first to remove any remaining signals, then over time do upgrades in phases as Texas is doing with I-69. As for I-14 though, it's all new location interstate bypassing 2-lane road that zig-zags and passes through towns.

[rte66man]

I'm for ANY route that bypasses Hearne.  What a speed trap!

[sprjus4]

I'm for ANY route that bypasses Hearne.  What a speed trap!

They'll still get SH-6 traffic though.

[sturmde]

For US 290, if the world ever returns to "normal", it could become a Western I-12 upon a freeway upgrade.
.
But, indeed having to use TX 53 then FM 485 to get from Temple to Hearne late at night was never one of my favorite drives.  I look forward when I'm in my 70's to using I-14 instead and then jogging up TX 6.  There's a decent Holiday Inn Express in Hearne though.  Just remodeled last year.

[sparker]

Still think TxDOT will, when all else is said and done, opt to use as much of the existing TX 6 as possible for I-14.  The NW junction will probably be somewhere around the TX 6/OSR interchange, extending SE from there along TX 6 to somewhere around the Speedway, where it'll head east to Huntsville and I-45.  It appears that the RIRO's and other private access to TX 6 between OSR and the Bryan bypass can readily be dealt with by frontage roads; the 4-lane portion from OSR to Hearne is just too rife with access points to be considered as a potential alignment.  So the sentiments expressed above regarding Hearne itself will likely be answered in the positive -- it most certainly will be bypassed around its SW perimeter.  Otherwise, it's difficult to imagine TxDOT acquiring any more improved properties that it has to -- so sticking with the present TX 6 alignment for as long as feasible seems a reasonable way to accomplish that.   

[sparker]

Bumping the thread by about a month to address a I-14 comment made in another quasi-related thread (Austin stuff).  While it is correct that not all HPC's are intended to be constructed to Interstate standards (for the record, only a relatively small portion of them are!), both the HPC's discussed (#18/20 for the I-69 cluster and #84 for I-14) are specifically designated as future Interstates.  Planning for those will be for facilities that will meet Interstate system criteria; while interim facilities such as super-2 and/or expressways with controlled access and provisions for interchanges might be built in the meantime, by no means are those intended to be permanent -- although with funding shortfalls, it may seem so!  That's being done with I-69C along the US 281 corridor from McAllen to George West; as per common TxDOT practice, the frontage roads exist or are being constructed as an initial phase and carry the traffic load in the interim; the extra-wide median will serve as the ROW for the future freeway.  If one peruses the I-14 threads fully, most consensus (including my own) is that "Triangle" interests have managed to advance their section of the corridor to the point where formal studies of route alignments are presently in process.  Once that phase is completed, it's on to design and, finally, letting and construction.  Right now chances are that I-14 will, in most of our lifetimes, consist of a corridor from Copperas Cove to I-45 near Huntsville via Cameron and Bryan/College Station (and utilizing some of the TX 6 freeway facility in that area).  But that's about it, unless the West Texas interests from San Angelo and Midland/Odessa can "up their game" and get similar studies done that winnow down the umpteen corridor segments they've posited to one that is viable and warranted (west of Brady they're literally "all over the map"), an extension west of Lampasas will just languish on the shelf.  East of I-45 the prospects are also uncertain; the definition of HPC #84, the authorization and funding vehicle for I-14's Texas length, ends at the LA state line; so far, LA's congressional delegation has yet to cobble up a continuation corridor in their state -- although they do have a corridor, #75, that connects Fort Polk to Alexandria along LA 28, the purported I-14 continuation alignment -- but it doesn't extend to the TX state line to connect to that state's corridor -- so that state's commitment to I-14 is questionable at best.  But the same dynamic that resulted in multiple West Texas corridor branches and/or options (some pretty ludicrous, IMO) did produce one potentially usable alternative -- Livingston to Beaumont.  If LA demurs regarding timely development of the corridor, the eastern end could find usage as a Houston-area bypass by merely "bending" I-14 down to Beaumont along that "branch", creating a cross-state bypass of both Houston and San Antonio.  Keeps it an all-TX concept -- and since unilateral AL actions deleting all new freeway construction there have put the kibosh on the original early-2000's I-14 corridor across the Deep South, that might not be a bad thing for the time being. 

TxDOT, like most agencies of its type, respond to the requests of its political "handlers"; when those are in agreement regarding corridor deployment, the agency generally finds the money to actually develop those corridors.  It may be eked out in phases like described previously, but TX historically has been one of those states that follows through on its plans whenever possible.  Large-scale projects such as this tend to follow a "middle/hybrid line" between micro- and macroeconomic principles.  Multi-year STIP's often help with that, often requiring extensive projects to stretch out developmental activities over several years -- or even several STIP periods -- to diffuse their impact on the overall budgetary process.  This allows them to circumvent those micro-economic "standards" that characterize personal/family financial decisions; if a project can't be afforded or prioritized in years 1 or 2, it might be delayed to 3 or 4 or further out than that -- or even forwarded to the next STIP period.  But once embedded within the process, corridor projects are rarely abandoned -- and even more rarely downgraded. 

All that being said, corridors certainly benefit by having a consistent "cheering section" -- and one with some political clout helps immeasurably.   I-69 has been, is, and will be shepherded by the Alliance for I-69/Texas, which is made up of Houston city luminaries and interests with a major interest in the development of that corridor.  At present, by comparison I-14's equivalent is indeed muted; that'll have to change before that corridor is extended beyond what's on the ground or in present process.