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Author Topic: All four directions signed on one road at the same time  (Read 6219 times)

ModernDayWarrior

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All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« on: July 30, 2018, 08:10:57 PM »

Does anyone have an example of a stretch of road that has two simultaneous wrong-way concurrencies, such that the road has all four cardinal directions signed on it at the same time? Has this ever happened, either in the United States or elsewhere?

My guess is no, this situation doesn't exist anywhere, but I was curious. I've been looking around for an example and have found plenty of places where the road has three directions signed at once, but never all four.
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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2018, 08:23:02 PM »

Does anyone have an example of a stretch of road that has two simultaneous wrong-way concurrencies, such that the road has all four cardinal directions signed on it at the same time? Has this ever happened, either in the United States or elsewhere?

My guess is no, this situation doesn't exist anywhere, but I was curious. I've been looking around for an example and have found plenty of places where the road has three directions signed at once, but never all four.

I've heard it happened decades ago in Long Beach CA, though I don't recall details or which four highways were involved (I think US 6 and CA 1 were two of the four).
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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2018, 08:33:10 PM »

A thread that's about wrong-way concurrencies in general, but has a section about all 4 directions:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=22745

A thread about adding a business route designation just to make a 4-way concurrency happen:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=14712

I'm pretty sure there's no such thing.
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ModernDayWarrior

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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2018, 09:46:37 PM »

A thread that's about wrong-way concurrencies in general, but has a section about all 4 directions:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=22745

A thread about adding a business route designation just to make a 4-way concurrency happen:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=14712

I'm pretty sure there's no such thing.

Thanks for the links. The second one has another oddity I'd never seen before - a road forming a wrong-way concurrency with itself. Cool stuff!
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hbelkins

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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2018, 11:57:34 AM »

Years ago, there was a post in misc.transport.road (that unfortunately was a victim of the no-archive header) that gave an example of this. I seem to think that it was in Massachusetts, but am not sure. Others have said there was no such post, but I distinctly remember it.
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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2018, 12:06:44 PM »

Years ago, there was a post in misc.transport.road (that unfortunately was a victim of the no-archive header) that gave an example of this. I seem to think that it was in Massachusetts, but am not sure. Others have said there was no such post, but I distinctly remember it.

We would know about it if it existed.

Maybe it was one that was signed in 3 directions and actually went in the fourth?
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MNHighwayMan

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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2018, 11:27:06 PM »

Years ago, there was a post in misc.transport.road (that unfortunately was a victim of the no-archive header) that gave an example of this. I seem to think that it was in Massachusetts, but am not sure. Others have said there was no such post, but I distinctly remember it.
We would know about it if it existed.

This is my thought precisely. If such a thing did exist, there would almost certainly be evidence of it, here or elsewhere. It's also the kind of thing that would be interesting even to non-roadgeeks/casual drivers, which only increases its chances of being noticed and put somewhere on the Internet. I pretty firmly believe no such thing exists, at least not within the last 20-25 years, if not ever.
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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2018, 08:11:54 AM »

I think this would be possible if there was a temporary construction zone along a wrong-way triplex, forcing the fourth direction to ride along the detour.
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roadman65

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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2018, 05:45:12 PM »

Yeah if you had the three with another road intersecting them with a road closure in the middle.  I know that US 11, 41,64, and 72 all run wrong way, but even that does not have an intersecting cross route signed E-W as that could work if the west detour went east with both US 64 & 72 E Bound.

Another way is if you have awkward routings like US 521 and US 52 in SC that meet counter logically like US 521 and US 52 in SC. You have N-S US 521 cross E-W US 52 but with North to the West and West to the North making East to the left of North if you go NB on US 521 etc. 

If you had another N-S running opposite of US 521 and another E-W running opposite of US 52 through that intersection, you could have it.
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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2018, 07:15:49 PM »

Does anyone have an example of a stretch of road that has two simultaneous wrong-way concurrencies, such that the road has all four cardinal directions signed on it at the same time? Has this ever happened, either in the United States or elsewhere?

My guess is no, this situation doesn't exist anywhere, but I was curious. I've been looking around for an example and have found plenty of places where the road has three directions signed at once, but never all four.

I've heard it happened decades ago in Long Beach CA, though I don't recall details or which four highways were involved (I think US 6 and CA 1 were two of the four).

Before the '64 renumbering, PCH in Long Beach, for a while, featured "North US 91", "South Alternate US 101", and "East SSR 18" shields east of Atlantic Ave. (itself SSR 15 before 1958) and "North Alternate US 101" and "US 6" (unbannered) to the west of Atlantic Ave.  Curiously, the Division of Highways kept most of US 6 unbannered within the state (it certainly was that way through my hometown of Glendale), probably because while the route was nationally an east-west route, it was definitely north-south within the state.  Occasionally D7 would post a "north" or "south" banner above the shield, most often along the Harbor Freeway as it was extended south from 1954 to 1961, co-signed with SSR 11; these didn't last long, since the US 6 shields were removed at the beginning of 1964.  On the multiplex with US 99, the shields were more often than not arranged vertically, with US 99 on the top and US 6 on the bottom with an occasional "NORTH" or "SOUTH" banner above the US 99 shield.  In my hometown, much of the length of the pre-freeway route on San Fernando Road was shared with SSR 134; here the shield arrangement was a US 99 and US 6 shield side-by-side on the top and a SSR 134 shield centered below; if memory serves me correctly, there were no directional banners applied to that combination in either direction.  The "99" on top of "6" arrangement with a single directional banner above the US 99 shield was carried over to the first section of the Golden State Freeway opened in 1957 (a section built pre-Interstate funding; it didn't get I-5 shields until the adjoining section south to the Pasadena Freeway was opened in early 1961).

But getting back to the OP premise:  the "four routes" in Long Beach that were mentioned were likely a combination of the four (five, counting SSR 15 on Atlantic Ave.) that converged on that intersection; no more than three were on any single stretch of street at any time -- and SSR 18 was itself eventually cut back to the corner of Carson St. (E-W, US 91/SSR 18) and Lakewood Blvd.: N-S, SSR 19, with US 91 and SSR 18 multiplexing south over it to the traffic circle at PCH, where SSR 19 terminated and, for a time, US 91 and SSR 18 turned west with north Alternate US 101.  When the Long Beach Freeway was completed in 1958 and SSR 15 moved over to its alignment, the co-termini of US 6 and US 91 was moved to its interchange with PCH/Alternate US 101 (also the southern terminus of SSR 15; the freeway was unsigned south of there).  At that time SSR 18 was truncated as previously cited; its multiplex with US 91 was cut back all the way to San Bernardino by 1962.   
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Kulerage

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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2018, 10:50:10 PM »

I assume they do not exist anymore, although they aren't that far-fetched in theory.
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sparker

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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2018, 02:43:39 AM »

I assume they do not exist anymore, although they aren't that far-fetched in theory.

Alternate US 101 has been CA 1 since 1964, the same year US 91 was decommissioned in CA.  CA 18 is still in San Bernardino County.  SSR 15 became CA 7 and in 1984 I-710.  CA 19 is disappearing one segment at a time via relinquishment to the cities it traverses. 
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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2018, 08:53:08 AM »

My dream is to find a single section of road going North, South, East and West at the same time (as signed, as obviously one only can head on two of the four directions along the road, and only one at any given time). I haven't found one yet, so it may not exist (unless Arkansas puts a Bus I-30 through Arkadelphia).
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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2018, 12:13:40 PM »

Years ago, there was a post in misc.transport.road (that unfortunately was a victim of the no-archive header) that gave an example of this. I seem to think that it was in Massachusetts, but am not sure. Others have said there was no such post, but I distinctly remember it.

We would know about it if it existed.

Maybe it was one that was signed in 3 directions and actually went in the fourth?
Not four directions, but the closest thing in Massachusetts would have been I-93/MA 128 between Canton and Braintree prior to 1989, when the MA 128 designation was removed from this section of road.  It was signed as I-93 north/MA 128 south, and the compass direction of the road is due east.
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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2018, 01:42:03 PM »

The closest concurrency I can think of that fits this criteria is the freeway segment of US 50/301 between the interchange with Solomons Island Road and the interchange with Rowe Blvd in Annapolis. You have I-595 east, US 50 east, US 301 north, and MD 2 north in one direction, and I-595 west, US 50 west, US 301 south and MD 2 south in the other direction.
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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2018, 11:30:39 PM »

The closest concurrency I can think of that fits this criteria is the freeway segment of US 50/301 between the interchange with Solomons Island Road and the interchange with Rowe Blvd in Annapolis. You have I-595 east, US 50 east, US 301 north, and MD 2 north in one direction, and I-595 west, US 50 west, US 301 south and MD 2 south in the other direction.
I think the OP means travel in one direction could mean travel in all four directions depending on the route. Otherwise the I-94/41 concurrency in Wisconsin would qualify, since traveling cardinal north means traveling north on 41 and west on 94, and traveling cardinal south means traveling south on 41 and east on 94.
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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2019, 09:46:22 AM »

Now that I think about it, maybe what hbelkins was thinking of was in four directions, but not NSEW. Specifically, the diagonal routes in Ohio. Washington Court House would have qualified when US 62 was diagonal and US 35 was not yet on the bypass.
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hbelkins

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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2019, 11:33:48 AM »

Now that I think about it, maybe what hbelkins was thinking of was in four directions, but not NSEW. Specifically, the diagonal routes in Ohio. Washington Court House would have qualified when US 62 was diagonal and US 35 was not yet on the bypass.

Nope. I remember (faintly) the intermediate directional signage Ohio used. That wasn't it.
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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2019, 10:06:23 AM »

The closest concurrency I can think of that fits this criteria is the freeway segment of US 50/301 between the interchange with Solomons Island Road and the interchange with Rowe Blvd in Annapolis. You have I-595 east, US 50 east, US 301 north, and MD 2 north in one direction, and I-595 west, US 50 west, US 301 south and MD 2 south in the other direction.
Here's another near-example, from Death Valley in Greensboro:

Of course, both I-85 and US 421 no longer exist here, because they've been moved onto the Urban Loop further south. US 220 has been rerouted to an alignment further west as well.
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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2019, 10:13:18 AM »

doesn't I 41/43/894 in milwaukee do 3/4ths of this?
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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2019, 01:27:09 PM »

doesn't I 41/43/894 in milwaukee do 3/4ths of this?
Yes, and so does I-39/US-51/US-10/WI-66 in Stevens Point.
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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2019, 08:50:56 AM »

doesn't I 41/43/894 in milwaukee do 3/4ths of this?

Isn't I-894 signed as "Bypass" instead of "West" or "East"?
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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2019, 10:26:12 AM »

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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2019, 09:01:27 AM »

doesn't I 41/43/894 in milwaukee do 3/4ths of this?

Isn't I-894 signed as "Bypass" instead of "West" or "East"?
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9625436,-87.9922367,3a,30.7y,253.39h,94.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9vyXxook9gTBy90vzU9itQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
At least here it's signed west/east.

Coming north from I-94, I-894 is signed "Bypass."
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Re: All four directions signed on one road at the same time
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2020, 03:15:01 PM »

A thread that's about wrong-way concurrencies in general, but has a section about all 4 directions:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=22745

A thread about adding a business route designation just to make a 4-way concurrency happen:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=14712

I'm pretty sure there's no such thing.


Resurrecting the thread because I found one (albeit not fully signed):

This is in eastern Knoxville TN - https://goo.gl/maps/cj9wGmvQSussrjeo6

You are on US 11E south, US 25W north, US 70 west, and unsigned TN 9 north.  The sign says TN 168 west is to the left.

TN 168 east is also (unsigned) straight ahead.

TN 168 was extended over US 11E-70 when US 25W was moved to I-40 and 640.  Though not necessary, TN 9 was also moved with it.  Thus there was no state designation on US 11E-70 west of I-40.  They put TN 168 on it.  Maps show this and there is a TN 168 mile posting at the US 11E-11W split - https://goo.gl/maps/whkXNQMejqRuBz4U9

So while not posted, it does exist on a 0.9 mile stretch of highway in Tennessee.
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