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Will Walmart ever fail?

Started by I-39, April 17, 2022, 07:04:07 PM

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abefroman329

Quote from: Rothman on April 18, 2022, 11:37:22 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2022, 11:33:58 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 18, 2022, 11:25:07 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2022, 11:22:51 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 18, 2022, 11:14:28 AM
I mean, it's going to assuredly fail. It won't be around in 200 years because how many stores last that long?

You never know:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies

Sure, but if you look at just U.S. stores, there are no retailers there.

Minor example, but there is this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghirardelli_Chocolate_Company

The ruins of the store in Hornitos are actually an attraction in the town.

More on point with retail via Macys:

https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/8122-oldest-companies-in-america.html
Heh.  If there's ever a Walmart Square that becomes a tourist attraction for high-end desserts, I think I'll reach for my revolver.
I considered reaching for mine when I learned Walmart now offers health care.


kphoger

Quote from: abefroman329 on April 18, 2022, 11:56:12 AM

Quote from: Rothman on April 18, 2022, 11:37:22 AM
Heh.  If there's ever a Walmart Square that becomes a tourist attraction for high-end desserts, I think I'll reach for my revolver.

I considered reaching for mine when I learned Walmart now offers health care.

If you do, then maybe you can go to Wal-Mart to get care for your injury.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

hbelkins

Quote from: abefroman329 on April 17, 2022, 08:37:33 PM
My first response was "one can only hope,"  but then I remembered that they could be replaced by something worse.

All I can say is that I was pleasantly surprised to see that there was a Meijer outside Lexington, KY - I had a number of items I needed to buy on the way to Asheville and I thought it would be Walmart or nothing.

The southernmost Meijer on I-75 is at Richmond, which is 25 miles south of Lexington.

I think the overall southernmost one is in Bowling Green.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

ethanhopkin14

Quote from: kphoger on April 18, 2022, 10:40:21 AM
No, not exactly.

But the first time that a Starbucks opens up inside of a Starbucks inside of a Wal-Mart, then Judgment Day will immediately follow, and the heavens and the earth will be no more.

That was a Simpsons' bit. 

skluth

Walmart has a few departments where Amazon will struggle to compete. Whole Foods may be more profitable, but Amazon has nothing to compete with Walmart's grocery section. Walmart competes more with Lowe's and Home Depot for home repair needs, paint, and gardening needs (including plants). Amazon has yet to go into auto services though they could buy out a Meineke's or Jiffy Lube and expand from there. (Note that auto repair will rapidly change as electric vehicles become a majority which will force oil change businesses to diversify.) There are also people like me who just prefer to shop in stores for clothes and many other products; I don't know if Millennials and future generations will have enough store shoppers. But yeah, they'll eventually go under though they will probably outlast me. I think some other even worse retail establishment or combination of businesses will eventually drive them out of business.

SP Cook

Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 18, 2022, 11:14:28 AM
I mean, it's going to assuredly fail. It won't be around in 200 years because how many stores last that long?

Well the oldest corporation in the world is "The Governor and Company of Adventurers of England, trading into Hudson's Bay" .  Founded on May 2, 1670. 

While it has been in many businesses from fur trading, to oil and gas, to land sales, it has owned stores for most of that time, and pretty much has been only in that business since the mid-1950s. 

kphoger

Is it to a company's advantage or disadvantage, in terms of longevity, to operate a hundred zillion stores that are all basically the same?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

abefroman329

Quote from: hbelkins on April 18, 2022, 01:10:06 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 17, 2022, 08:37:33 PM
My first response was "one can only hope,"  but then I remembered that they could be replaced by something worse.

All I can say is that I was pleasantly surprised to see that there was a Meijer outside Lexington, KY - I had a number of items I needed to buy on the way to Asheville and I thought it would be Walmart or nothing.

The southernmost Meijer on I-75 is at Richmond, which is 25 miles south of Lexington.

I think the overall southernmost one is in Bowling Green.
It was the one located at 2155 Paul Jones Way, Lexington 40509.

My point was that I didn't really expect to find any hypermarkets in KY that weren't Walmarts.

abefroman329

Quote from: kphoger on April 18, 2022, 02:46:54 PM
Is it to a company's advantage or disadvantage, in terms of longevity, to operate a hundred zillion stores that are all basically the same?
It's certainly been an advantage for McDonalds.

webny99

Quote from: kphoger on April 18, 2022, 02:46:54 PM
Is it to a company's advantage or disadvantage, in terms of longevity, to operate a hundred zillion stores that are all basically the same?

I think it's an advantage overall. Businesses with one or just a handful of locations can have successful runs, but rarely have the right ownership structure and decision makers to successfully transition through one generation after another in the same way as a company like Walmart or McDonalds.

Bruce

Quote from: skluth on April 18, 2022, 01:49:12 PM
Walmart has a few departments where Amazon will struggle to compete. Whole Foods may be more profitable, but Amazon has nothing to compete with Walmart's grocery section.

Amazon Fresh is becoming their main grocery brand and features more reasonable prices, more in line with the likes of Target from what I've seen in the Seattle area. They also have the cashierless systems from Amazon Go, plus some fresh food options.

triplemultiplex

Walmart would already be at death's door if it wasn't also a grocery store.  You can talk about all the mismanagement and other business-speak when it comes to how KMart and Sears went down the tubes, but at the end of the day, it was because those stores were not also selling a full complement of groceries in additional to all the cheap-ass crap and slave-made clothes.

Walmart wasn't really a grocery store 30 years ago.  But in the 90's they started rolling out the "Supercenter" which was the same department store consumers were used to, but also groceries.  And it future-proofed their stores.  Target followed suit.  Today, Walmart's primary competition comes from regional department store/grocery store hybrids like Meijer or Fred Meyer (hey similar names!)

The fact is, most people would rather pick out their own food either on principle or because deep down, the want to be tempted by those impulse items.  (Ooh, big bags of M&M's 2 for 5?  I pretty much have to!)  So online grocery delivery is never going to muscle out the majority of that business.  Walmart also has its own supply chain for grocery items, so they can control costs up and down the line and always be in a position to compete on price, so they'll have a lock on budget-conscious consumers.

At this point, they'd really have to screw things up in order to fail.  Or have some crazy external force disrupt things.  Like it or not, Walmart is here to stay.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

kphoger

Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 18, 2022, 06:10:44 PM
The fact is, most people would rather pick out their own food either on principle or because deep down, the want to be tempted by those impulse items.  (Ooh, big bags of M&M's 2 for 5?  I pretty much have to!)  So online grocery delivery is never going to muscle out the majority of that business.

The reason my wife and I only do in-person grocery shopping is that we don't trust someone else to make substitution decisions for us.

Especially when it comes to fresh produce, exactly what we buy depends on what it looks like that day compared to other similar things.  If kale in a certain type of packaging looks like it might go bad in the next couple of days, we might try a different brand/packaging, or we might even choose a different type of greens altogether.  Or our list will simply say "fresh fruit" and we'll buy whatever looks and smells the best while we're there.

But also when it comes to packaged items:  if they're out a 16-ounce whatever, we might switch brands, or we might switch to buying 8- or 32-ounce versions instead, or we might buy a different flavor that we can make work in whatever we're cooking.  It's also somewhat common for one of us to realize we forgot to add something to the list–but only because we see it while walking down the aisle.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Scott5114

Also, order minimums are a thing. If I need $10 worth of items and pickup/delivery has a $25 order minimum, I don't want to have to add $15 worth of stuff I don't really need just to satisfy the order minimum. (Yeah, I could just do something like pad the order out with something that will keep that I'll use eventually, like cans of tuna, but most of the time the whole reason I'm under the order minimum is because I'm trying to get a few items to stretch things out until payday.)
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

oscar

Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 18, 2022, 06:10:44 PM
Walmart wasn't really a grocery store 30 years ago.  But in the 90's they started rolling out the "Supercenter" which was the same department store consumers were used to, but also groceries.

I haven't seen a "Supercenter"-branded WalMart in the U.S. for ages. Maybe because even the smaller WalMarts, including the "neighborhood stores" and other variants, usually have at least limited grocery offerings.

But WalMart "Supercentres" abound in Canada.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
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Ted$8roadFan

Quote from: oscar on April 18, 2022, 07:43:10 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 18, 2022, 06:10:44 PM
Walmart wasn't really a grocery store 30 years ago.  But in the 90's they started rolling out the "Supercenter" which was the same department store consumers were used to, but also groceries.

I haven't seen a "Supercenter"-branded WalMart in the U.S. for ages. Maybe because even the smaller WalMarts, including the "neighborhood stores" and other variants, usually have at least limited grocery offerings.

But WalMart "Supercentres" abound in Canada.

Usually Supercenter-branded Walmarts are in rural areas/exurbs and just outside of larger metropolitan areas. Although here in New England, Hartford, Springfield, and Worcester have them.

abefroman329

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 18, 2022, 07:25:29 PM
Also, order minimums are a thing. If I need $10 worth of items and pickup/delivery has a $25 order minimum, I don't want to have to add $15 worth of stuff I don't really need just to satisfy the order minimum. (Yeah, I could just do something like pad the order out with something that will keep that I'll use eventually, like cans of tuna, but most of the time the whole reason I'm under the order minimum is because I'm trying to get a few items to stretch things out until payday.)
With Instacart, if I'm not at the $35 minimum, I just add an expensive cut of meat and then remove it before the shopper starts shopping.

I-39

Quote from: Bruce on April 18, 2022, 05:10:08 PM
Quote from: skluth on April 18, 2022, 01:49:12 PM
Walmart has a few departments where Amazon will struggle to compete. Whole Foods may be more profitable, but Amazon has nothing to compete with Walmart's grocery section.

Amazon Fresh is becoming their main grocery brand and features more reasonable prices, more in line with the likes of Target from what I've seen in the Seattle area. They also have the cashierless systems from Amazon Go, plus some fresh food options.

Amazon Fresh has a lonnnng way to go before being a serious challenger to Walmart. Most of their stores are in niche urban/suburban areas.

SSOWorld

Quote from: abefroman329 on April 18, 2022, 08:39:09 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 18, 2022, 07:25:29 PM
Also, order minimums are a thing. If I need $10 worth of items and pickup/delivery has a $25 order minimum, I don't want to have to add $15 worth of stuff I don't really need just to satisfy the order minimum. (Yeah, I could just do something like pad the order out with something that will keep that I'll use eventually, like cans of tuna, but most of the time the whole reason I'm under the order minimum is because I'm trying to get a few items to stretch things out until payday.)
With Instacart, if I'm not at the $35 minimum, I just add an expensive cut of meat and then remove it before the shopper starts shopping.
Supercenter is Walmart (they don't call it that anymore).
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

SSOWorld

Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

mgk920

Will the 'Amazon Plus' of a century+ ago (Sears, Roebuck and Company) ever fail?

Mike

hbelkins

Quote from: abefroman329 on April 18, 2022, 02:47:18 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 18, 2022, 01:10:06 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 17, 2022, 08:37:33 PM
My first response was "one can only hope,"  but then I remembered that they could be replaced by something worse.

All I can say is that I was pleasantly surprised to see that there was a Meijer outside Lexington, KY - I had a number of items I needed to buy on the way to Asheville and I thought it would be Walmart or nothing.

The southernmost Meijer on I-75 is at Richmond, which is 25 miles south of Lexington.

I think the overall southernmost one is in Bowling Green.
It was the one located at 2155 Paul Jones Way, Lexington 40509.

My point was that I didn't really expect to find any hypermarkets in KY that weren't Walmarts.

We have Targets as well, although they're certainly not as plentiful as Walmart. I haven't done a comparison, but I wouldn't be surprised to find nearly as many Meijer locations here as Targets.

Kroger is starting to branch out into other merchandise. Kroger Marketplace may even have patio furniture or other non-grocery items.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

kalvado

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2022, 11:00:42 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 18, 2022, 09:46:03 AM


Quote from: SP Cook on April 18, 2022, 09:14:48 AM
Forever is a long time.  That said, Walmart's secret is not really that secret. Put of the 100s if not 1000s of indistinguishable such stores in what was a regional business for the most part, Walmart put the customer first.  In the marketplace, people gravitated to it, over more familiar such stores, because of the concern Walmart had for them, keeping prices as low as possible. 

As long as they remember that, they will be fine.  Of course, that was Sears' secret too, long ago. 

First generation founds the business, second generation grows the business, third generation ruins the business.

Heh.  Keeping prices low is being done to attract customers, destroy their competition and maximize profits.

The real sign of concern for customers is customer service, which Walmart falters in.

Don't tell me someone cares for me when they are acting totally in their own mercurial self-interest.

The thing is when does bad customer service begin to drive people away when lower prices are available?  Right now there seemingly is a near bottomless well of people who are willing to put up with Wal-Mart's poor service standards to save a buck.
What exactly is bad customer service? In most cases, it is just a loss of all/part of goods value.
if you loose less from potential loss than from shoping at a more expensive place, then it is a reasonable bet.
I don't buy food at $1 stores, I would hesitate to save on medications. But a pair of socks, for example, is very unlikely to kill me; and risk of defective sock is pretty acceptable as long as it doesn't occur too often.

kphoger

Customer service, to me, means things like this:
— ability to easily return items
— helpful employees
— responsiveness to phone calls

It has nothing to do with "goods value" at all, in my understanding of the term.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

JayhawkCO

Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 03:29:15 PM
Customer service, to me, means things like this:
— ability to easily return items
— helpful employees
— responsiveness to phone calls

It has nothing to do with "goods value" at all, in my understanding of the term.

Fully agreed. You get great customer service when buying really fancy shit you don't need. Certainly no value for a Lambo.



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