Will Walmart ever fail?

[kkt]

Forever is a long time.  That said, Walmart's secret is not really that secret. Put of the 100s if not 1000s of indistinguishable such stores in what was a regional business for the most part, Walmart put the customer first.  In the marketplace, people gravitated to it, over more familiar such stores, because of the concern Walmart had for them, keeping prices as low as possible. 

As long as they remember that, they will be fine.  Of course, that was Sears' secret too, long ago. 

First generation founds the business, second generation grows the business, third generation ruins the business.

Heh.  Keeping prices low is being done to attract customers, destroy their competition and maximize profits.

The real sign of concern for customers is customer service, which Walmart falters in.

Don't tell me someone cares for me when they are acting totally in their own mercurial self-interest.

[formulanone]

I'm surprised that consumers are expecting the Wal-Mart employees to be experts in the aisle that they stock.

They just need to know where it's located, and maybe knowing a scintilla more than the average consumer off the street; probably because they've had a few extra glances of the packaging over the course of their career. Worked for me when I worked in a grocery store...I'd never baked a cake.

[Scott5114]

I'm surprised that consumers are expecting the Wal-Mart employees to be experts in the aisle that they stock.

They just need to know where it's located, and maybe knowing a scintilla more than the average consumer off the street; probably because they've had a few extra glances of the packaging over the course of their career. Worked for me when I worked in a grocery store...I'd never baked a cake.

Oh, I don't expect anything of the sort from Walmart. But the problem for Walmart is that the "throw a bunch of products in a warehouse and sell them all for dirt cheap" model is really easy to ape. Amazon is arguably aping it right now, and it points to a future where all of those "buy cheap stuff" sales end up online. At that point there's really only three things brick-and-mortar can compete on: getting it there faster than online, allowing customers to see the product before they buy it, and customer service.

[kphoger]

Nobody comes into the world knowing anything about anything. If you are going to assign someone to a department, it is your responsibility as a business to make up the difference between "employee's current knowledge of that department" and "employee's ideal knowledge of that department".

If I'm asking someone for advice in a hardware store, then their answer needs to be informed by actual real-world experience with the hardware.  That isn't really the sort of thing that can be taught through employee training.

But a hardware store can manage it, because they can hire only or mostly people with real-world hardware experience.  In contrast Wal-Mart, or some similar store with 9600 departments ranging from automotive supply to girls' makeup, can't really do that.

[abefroman329]

Nobody comes into the world knowing anything about anything. If you are going to assign someone to a department, it is your responsibility as a business to make up the difference between "employee's current knowledge of that department" and "employee's ideal knowledge of that department".

If I'm asking someone for advice in a hardware store, then their answer needs to be informed by actual real-world experience with the hardware.  That isn't really the sort of thing that can be taught through employee training.

But a hardware store can manage it, because they can hire only or mostly people with real-world hardware experience.  In contrast Wal-Mart, or some similar store with 9600 departments ranging from automotive supply to girls' makeup, can't really do that.

Hell, even Home Depot and Lowe's can't really do that.

[vdeane]

In the 2008 recession, companies (not just Walmart) got really bad about demanding applicants already be the perfect manifestation of the position they were hired for with no training at all. They had that luxury back then, because there were enough applicants for each job position that they could afford to pick and choose. They got used to that way of operating, because it's cheaper for someone else to train them. But now the situation is coming back around where you are getting enough raw, untrained applicants that on-the-job training is going to make or break a candidate's success in the position.

Especially since, at the time, a lot of laid off Boomers who were theoretically near retirement (but who lost a good chunk of their savings) were taking entry-level jobs, making it possible for companies to pay entry-level wages to highly experienced workers and forgo training.  Now those Boomers are going ahead and retiring, leaving the jobs open for the Millennials who should have had them a decade ago.

[hbelkins]

Answering the phone is, to me, a basic tenet of good customer service.

I've told the story about how Walmart in Frankfort blew a potential sale by not picking up the phone in the auto center to answer a question about whether or not they had a tire in stock when I had a nonrepairable flat. Big O tire answered the phone, and they got a sale.

I've never had issues returning anything at Walmart, but I've always had the receipt and I've been able to return items that weren't purchased at that specific store (indeed, sometimes I've returned things that the store didn't even carry in stock).

[CtrlAltDel]

I've told the story about how Walmart in Frankfort blew a potential sale by not picking up the phone in the auto center to answer a question about whether or not they had a tire in stock when I had a nonrepairable flat.

To be fair, though, Walmart does 1.6 billion dollars worth of sales a day. In that context, selling or not selling a single tire like that isn't going to matter to them.

[kphoger]

I've told the story about how Walmart in Frankfort blew a potential sale by not picking up the phone in the auto center to answer a question about whether or not they had a tire in stock when I had a nonrepairable flat.

To be fair, though, Walmart does 1.6 billion dollars worth of sales a day. In that context, selling or not selling a single tire like that isn't going to matter to them.

In other words:  In that context, customer service doesn't matter to them.

[kphoger]

For me the value of buying at Walmart isn't outweighed by the hassle it is to shop there.  I rather pay nominally more to have an easier shopping experience and not be treated like a criminal like Walmart does to all their customers.  The slow cashiers and unresponsive staff drove me away from Walmart a long time ago, the security theater just affirms why I opt to stay away.  But those are all subjective measures, the average consumer might be willing to put up with more for perceived "value"  than I. 

My general impression is that the younger generation doesn't really care about their "experience" while shopping.  I'm like you, in that I'd rather go somewhere pleasant, even if it means spending a few more dollars, but maybe we're a dying breed?

[CtrlAltDel]

I've told the story about how Walmart in Frankfort blew a potential sale by not picking up the phone in the auto center to answer a question about whether or not they had a tire in stock when I had a nonrepairable flat.

To be fair, though, Walmart does 1.6 billion dollars worth of sales a day. In that context, selling or not selling a single tire like that isn't going to matter to them.

In other words:  In that context, customer service doesn't matter to them.

Precisely. But the way the comment I was responding to was phrased suggested to me that it came from a mindset that believes that the lost sale did matter.

[CtrlAltDel]

For me the value of buying at Walmart isn't outweighed by the hassle it is to shop there.  I rather pay nominally more to have an easier shopping experience and not be treated like a criminal like Walmart does to all their customers.  The slow cashiers and unresponsive staff drove me away from Walmart a long time ago, the security theater just affirms why I opt to stay away.  But those are all subjective measures, the average consumer might be willing to put up with more for perceived "value"  than I. 

My general impression is that the younger generation doesn't really care about their "experience" while shopping.  I'm like you, in that I'd rather go somewhere pleasant, even if it means spending a few more dollars, but maybe we're a dying breed?

I don't use a cashier or talk to the staff or visit at peak hours, which might explain, at least in part, why I find shopping at Walmart to be more or less just as pleasant as anywhere else.

[Max Rockatansky]

For me the value of buying at Walmart isn't outweighed by the hassle it is to shop there.  I rather pay nominally more to have an easier shopping experience and not be treated like a criminal like Walmart does to all their customers.  The slow cashiers and unresponsive staff drove me away from Walmart a long time ago, the security theater just affirms why I opt to stay away.  But those are all subjective measures, the average consumer might be willing to put up with more for perceived "value"  than I. 

My general impression is that the younger generation doesn't really care about their "experience" while shopping.  I'm like you, in that I'd rather go somewhere pleasant, even if it means spending a few more dollars, but maybe we're a dying breed?

Perhaps, I still recall when there was things like specialized employees commonly working in commission sales positions in retail.  A lot of my misgivings with Walmart's business model stem from the fact that I've been a retail security manager for sixteen years or my adult life.  The security theater and sacrificing customer service (good service standards is a far better deterrent than security theater IMO) in favor of pushing the low price/no frills model just doesn't jive with current/past strategies I've been involved with. 

Basically Walmart operates solely on the theory that they can sell through their inventory shrink and always count on high sales.  In their defense they aren't exactly wrong in their conclusion at present moment.

[roadman65]

I know customer service is dead especially on the phone.  I'm probably the only person who would really wants a human being to transfer my call than wait for all the forthcoming menu options.  Plus now with the operator function being depressed and then the voice activation system wants you to give a brief description of what you want to have done for you so the right person can be transferred to, is another bad customer service move.

We all know that they only have one set of operators that can handle all concerns. It's a gatekeeper to keep operator interaction to a minimum and make you think that you can handle your problem without human interaction to keep labor costs way down so the CEO can make 20 more grand per month in his bonuses.

Of course the most common excuse is " It's the way of the world"  and people feel that we are to evolve which is why no one will stand up for what they believe in anymore.  Beliefs are discarded now and life is disposable.

However I feel that if enough people believed like I do about automated menu options on the phone, it would have been gone years ago.  I know if I was not on the Spectrum, I would be more vocal , which makes me think that if a non Spectrum individual is not standing up against jobs being eliminated promoting customer services and ridding us of automated phone systems, it shows me people are quite comfortable living without customer service.

[abefroman329]

My general impression is that the younger generation doesn't really care about their "experience" while shopping.

No, but they care very much about how corporations use the money they're spending.

[kphoger]

All this talk about Spectrum and phones is making think of this.

[MikieTimT]

If I don't have to deal with anyone in a Wal-Mart at all, I consider it a win.  I have a Wal-Mart+ subscription, so I have the app, which tells me where in the store to find anything I need, and even if it's in stock, so I can even determine which store I want to shop at ahead of time if looking for something specific.  I use Scan and Go as I'm loading the basket, so that by the time I make it to the self-checkout and press CheckOut on the app, I just scan the QR code, visually confirm that I've got the right credit card account selected, and then bag and leave.  It's a faster and better experience from my perspective, because I don't need anyone's help to find anything in the store anyway, and I'm not there to chat up a cashier.  It's better as far as I'm concerned to focus associates on keeping the shelves stocked, the carts collected, help those who are technologically phobic or inexperienced, or for the one-off cases where you might need cash back or to use cash.

[Max Rockatansky]

All this talk about Spectrum and phones is making think of this.

Makes me think of the Electromagnetic Spectrum every time I see the word. 

[Max Rockatansky]

If I don't have to deal with anyone in a Wal-Mart at all, I consider it a win.  I have a Wal-Mart+ subscription, so I have the app, which tells me where in the store to find anything I need, and even if it's in stock, so I can even determine which store I want to shop at ahead of time if looking for something specific.  I use Scan and Go as I'm loading the basket, so that by the time I make it to the self-checkout and press CheckOut on the app, I just scan the QR code, visually confirm that I've got the right credit card account selected, and then bag and leave.  It's a faster and better experience from my perspective, because I don't need anyone's help to find anything in the store anyway, and I'm not there to chat up a cashier.  It's better as far as I'm concerned to focus associates on keeping the shelves stocked, the carts collected, help those who are technologically phobic or inexperienced, or for the one-off cases where you might need cash back or to use cash.

Interesting you call their employees "associates."   I wonder how many Walmart employees are actually "associates"  by the definition that they helped originate by way of owning company shares?  I still get a laugh of Target clinging so desperately onto calling their employees "Team Members"  every time I hear in their radio chatter. 

The strange thing to me that all the Military PXs brands try to call their employees "associates."   You literally cannot be an associate as a government employee working for a non-appropriated agency. 

[MikieTimT]

If I don't have to deal with anyone in a Wal-Mart at all, I consider it a win.  I have a Wal-Mart+ subscription, so I have the app, which tells me where in the store to find anything I need, and even if it's in stock, so I can even determine which store I want to shop at ahead of time if looking for something specific.  I use Scan and Go as I'm loading the basket, so that by the time I make it to the self-checkout and press CheckOut on the app, I just scan the QR code, visually confirm that I've got the right credit card account selected, and then bag and leave.  It's a faster and better experience from my perspective, because I don't need anyone's help to find anything in the store anyway, and I'm not there to chat up a cashier.  It's better as far as I'm concerned to focus associates on keeping the shelves stocked, the carts collected, help those who are technologically phobic or inexperienced, or for the one-off cases where you might need cash back or to use cash.

Interesting you call their employees "associates."   I wonder how many Walmart employees are actually "associates"  by the definition that they helped originate by way of owning company shares?  I still get a laugh of Target clinging so desperately onto calling their employees "Team Members"  every time I hear in their radio chatter. 

The strange thing to me that all the Military PXs brands try to call their employees "associates."   You literally cannot be an associate as a government employee working for a non-appropriated agency.

Given that the benefits packages make owning shares of the company a desirable source of income, I'd say that the vast majority of the associates actually do have share ownership.  Certain job roles also have stock options, which makes it a no-brainer, except during share price downturns, which typically haven't been long term in Wal-Mart's lifespan.  I haven't worked there since 2004, so I don't know what sort of company contribution there is nowadays for the stock purchase program, but it's very unlikely to be 0.  All in all, it helped buy a little house in downtown Bentonville in 7 years flat free and clear, so it wasn't terrible to work at, although they most assuredly get their money's worth out of you in whatever role you have, store or H.O.  I spent some time in college working at a SuperCenter as a cashier, so I certainly don't envy anyone in that role nowadays.  I always seem to get stuck with #5, which was the first non-express checkout lane back in the olden days.  Sucked to be quick at scanning goods and landing in the busiest line in the store regularly, so pushed to become a cart shagger when the weather got nicer for a change of pace.  No change in pay, so didn't mind it at all.  Had to quit around finals time as they didn't work with me for time off to study, but helped get out of college with less than 5 figure debt.  Don't think that's possible anymore, though.

[Max Rockatansky]

Most retailers (I've can't comment on Walmart since I've never worked there) have either eliminated or substantially cut back on things like contribution matching or share purchasing.  Sears even once had a pension program but it was grandfathered out a couple years after I started as a LP Manager there in 2005.  When I was District LP Manager at Bealls Outlet they did sell company shares but I didn't partake since I intended to stay only 3-4 years.  At best you might get an occasional 401k match these days, but it usually is contingent upon profits.

Sears did do partial tuition reimbursement, but I never partook since I quit college in 2007.  The PXs do offer some form of tuition reimbursement but I haven't looked too deeply into it since I don't intent to return to school any time soon, if ever.

[Scott5114]

I know customer service is dead especially on the phone.  I'm probably the only person who would really wants a human being to transfer my call than wait for all the forthcoming menu options.  Plus now with the operator function being depressed and then the voice activation system wants you to give a brief description of what you want to have done for you so the right person can be transferred to, is another bad customer service move.

[...]

However I feel that if enough people believed like I do about automated menu options on the phone, it would have been gone years ago.  I know if I was not on the Spectrum, I would be more vocal , which makes me think that if a non Spectrum individual is not standing up against jobs being eliminated promoting customer services and ridding us of automated phone systems, it shows me people are quite comfortable living without customer service.

No, nobody likes phone trees, and they never have. People have been complaining about them since they were invented. But the sad truth of the matter is that customer opinions do not matter to businesses. If a phone tree saves them more money in wages than they lose in sales from people not willing to deal with the phone tree, then they consider it a win, regardless of how people feel about it. Because if you're irritated and you keep giving them money...your irritation is of no concern to them.

Anyway if I'm not feeling up for dealing with the phone tree whenever I call somewhere, when they ask me to press 1 for English or 2 for Spanish, I hammer that 7 button hard until the software gets confused by my input and crashes me through to a human operator.

[kphoger]

Anyway if I'm not feeling up for dealing with the phone tree whenever I call somewhere, when they ask me to press 1 for English or 2 for Spanish, I hammer that 7 button hard until the software gets confused by my input and crashes me through to a human operator.

– ... Hi.  I'm Julie.  What can I help you with today? ... You can say ... "pay a bill" ... "check my balance" ... "report an issue" ...

– Operator

– ... Sorry.  I didn't get that.  ... You can say ... "pay a bill" ... "check my balance" ...

– Operator

– ... Sorry.  I didn't get that.  ... You can say ... "pay a bill" ...

– OPERATOR!

– ... Please wait ... while I connect you to an operator ...

[roadman65]

I know customer service is dead especially on the phone.  I'm probably the only person who would really wants a human being to transfer my call than wait for all the forthcoming menu options.  Plus now with the operator function being depressed and then the voice activation system wants you to give a brief description of what you want to have done for you so the right person can be transferred to, is another bad customer service move.

[...]

However I feel that if enough people believed like I do about automated menu options on the phone, it would have been gone years ago.  I know if I was not on the Spectrum, I would be more vocal , which makes me think that if a non Spectrum individual is not standing up against jobs being eliminated promoting customer services and ridding us of automated phone systems, it shows me people are quite comfortable living without customer service.

No, nobody likes phone trees, and they never have. People have been complaining about them since they were invented. But the sad truth of the matter is that customer opinions do not matter to businesses. If a phone tree saves them more money in wages than they lose in sales from people not willing to deal with the phone tree, then they consider it a win, regardless of how people feel about it. Because if you're irritated and you keep giving them money...your irritation is of no concern to them.

Anyway if I'm not feeling up for dealing with the phone tree whenever I call somewhere, when they ask me to press 1 for English or 2 for Spanish, I hammer that 7 button hard until the software gets confused by my input and crashes me through to a human operator.

No only to their employees do customer opinions count.  Because if one complains to a manager, even if the employee was right and the customer totally wrong, then that particular employee is spoken to and asked to swallow his or her pride.  When an executive and CEO makes a decision that pisses off customers, its called freedom to run a business.   

Just like to me, when I complain at Walmart, when the 10 item of less is not enforced and a person comes into the express lane with a full shopping cart, I get a shrugged shoulder by the cashier waving the rule to that other shopper or told "You can't always get what you want and we can't tell another shopper that they can't buy items that make our company more profitable." when I complain about it.  Yet, if I was the one entering the express line with a full basket and the person behind me complained about it, I would be told to go to the other check out lines or have the store manager say my money to them could be sacrificed.

Of course that is murphy's law syndrome, but the fact is complaints are not feared for by executives unless the hired help is mentioned in that complaint like you said.  However, if enough people complain, action could be taken.  Back when the tree first came out, if enough people brought that out to local media with reporters exposing the feelings of the average joe shopper on the six o clock news, we would still have real people answering the phones when we call a business or a specific service.

[webny99]

But the sad truth of the matter is that customer opinions do not matter to businesses.

That's true of many businesses, especially large corporations, but certainly not all businesses. Customer opinions do matter very much to many small and medium-sized businesses, who rely on better service, good reviews (both online and through word of mouth) and/or a unique selling point to attract customers away from those very same large corporations.