Mulholland Highway(Topanga Canyon CA-27 to PCH CA-1)

[Plutonic Panda]

I had sworn Max had created a thread on this linking to Gribblenation but I couldn't find it. So I went back and looked for the post and found it was briefly discussed on the catch all California thread. I figured it needs its own thread. If there's another please merge.

Anyways, the section from Lower Brewster Rd. to roughly Seminole Dr has been closed since around 2018 due to wildfires and mudslides. I had been curious about this for a long time. That year was especially destructive to not only this road but the Mulholland Highway Bridge over Malibu Creek(which I took pictures of here https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=18416.msg2645608#msg2645608 and will take more of soon as the temporary bridge has been removed) and a pedestrian bridge in Malibu Creek State Park connecting the trails to the N.A.S.H. Filming site.

Today I decided to try and find out out what was going on as it is still closed and only allowed open to pedestrians and cyclists. I found out, to my surprise, Caltrans has no control over this and it's under the jurisdiction of the county of Los Angeles public works. I thought that was interesting because I saw Caltrans inspectors from time to time at the Malibu Creek bridge when it was U/C.

Anyways, the section in question, also known as "The Snake,"  is due to be repaired and reopened to cars/motorcycles around October 22' but it could be longer. That was what I was told.

[Max Rockatansky]

This is the one I did awhile back.  It could probably use a revisit since the CHPW scans emerged after:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25161.msg2423158#msg2423158

Truth be told I was liking CA 23 better after driving it immediately after CA 27.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^ they have done multiple improvements along CA-23 including resurfacing and new guardrails in the recent years. Not sure when the last time you drove it but I did a cruise back in February. I might go for a drive tomorrow up there. It's a really nice drive when you don't have ricers tailgating you.

And did Mulholland Highway ever have a number?

[Road Hog]

Mulholland has been on my list forever, but I ran into the same thing you did. I did drive over Kanan however as the 1979 John Stewart song suggested.

[Max Rockatansky]

^^^ they have done multiple improvements along CA-23 including resurfacing and new guardrails in the recent years. Not sure when the last time you drove it but I did a cruise back in February. I might go for a drive tomorrow up there. It's a really nice drive when you don't have ricers tailgating you.

And did Mulholland Highway ever have a number?

Planned as CA 268 between I-405 and CA 27, deleted during 1970.

[Plutonic Panda]

Mulholland has been on my list forever, but I ran into the same thing you did. I did drive over Kanan however as the 1979 John Stewart song suggested.

I'll post here when it's reopen. It's definitely a fun road!

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^ they have done multiple improvements along CA-23 including resurfacing and new guardrails in the recent years. Not sure when the last time you drove it but I did a cruise back in February. I might go for a drive tomorrow up there. It's a really nice drive when you don't have ricers tailgating you.

And did Mulholland Highway ever have a number?

Planned as CA 268 between I-405 and CA 27, deleted during 1970.

Thanks for the information. So it wasn't ever planned for Mulholland Road through the now closed part only open for hikers and cyclists from Topanga Canyon to Encino Hills Dr to the 101... That's interesting it seems like they would plan on a state highway having a direct connection to another major highway going straight to LA as opposed to the 405.

[Plutonic Panda]

Finally news about this road. It is planned to be reopened. Cant believe it took four years.

https://www.audacy.com/knxnews/news/local/the-snake-on-mulholland-highway-once-infamous-may-reopen

[Quillz]

A short portion of Mulholland Highway is part of CA-23. The rest has never been part of the state highway system, except for what Max posted about a potential CA-268.

As an aside, something odd about Topanga Canyon Boulevard/CA-27 is that it doesn't appear to actually be newer than Old Topanga Canyon Road to the west. That has never carried CA-27, and there's no evidence I've been able to find that it's actually an older road or alignment. Seems they have existed for roughly the same amount of time. So I'm not sure why that name was chosen. There have been minor changes to CA-27 as Topanga Canyon Boulevard once ended at Victory Boulevard. But everything south of Ventura has been unchanged.

[Quillz]

^^^ they have done multiple improvements along CA-23 including resurfacing and new guardrails in the recent years. Not sure when the last time you drove it but I did a cruise back in February. I might go for a drive tomorrow up there. It's a really nice drive when you don't have ricers tailgating you.

And did Mulholland Highway ever have a number?

Planned as CA 268 between I-405 and CA 27, deleted during 1970.

Thanks for the information. So it wasn't ever planned for Mulholland Road through the now closed part only open for hikers and cyclists from Topanga Canyon to Encino Hills Dr to the 101... That's interesting it seems like they would plan on a state highway having a direct connection to another major highway going straight to LA as opposed to the 405.

"Dirt Mulholland" as it's known locally was intended to be paved in the 1920s. But public pressure caused it to remain unpaved and only open to pedestrians and bikers. Part of the push for CA-268, presumably, was that it would have linked to the CA-14 extension that was planned down Reseda Boulevard, and eventually would wind up on Temescal Canyon Road. But it sounds like by 1970s, plans to pave it and make it part of the state highway system were canceled. Probably similar public pressure.

[Plutonic Panda]

I really wish we could connect a better grid and at least turn that segment into a narrow low speed road that would allow for cars and be paved.

[Quillz]

I really wish we could connect a better grid and at least turn that segment into a narrow low speed road that would allow for cars and be paved.

Not really much point anymore. It's a very popular area for hiking, biking, and offers some green space that is badly needed in the Los Angeles area. And even if it was paved and low speed, there is virtually no reason to ever take it. It's narrow, windy, and doesn't get you anywhere that the freeways don't do much more quickly and safely. And if it's a matter of wanting a nice view, well, that's what the biking, hiking, walking is for.

And that's ignoring the NIMBY issues that would arise.

[RZF]

A short portion of Mulholland Highway is part of CA-23. The rest has never been part of the state highway system, except for what Max posted about a potential CA-268.

As an aside, something odd about Topanga Canyon Boulevard/CA-27 is that it doesn't appear to actually be newer than Old Topanga Canyon Road to the west. That has never carried CA-27, and there's no evidence I've been able to find that it's actually an older road or alignment. Seems they have existed for roughly the same amount of time. So I'm not sure why that name was chosen. There have been minor changes to CA-27 as Topanga Canyon Boulevard once ended at Victory Boulevard. But everything south of Ventura has been unchanged.

From the Conejo Valley to LAX, a much more scenic and bearable drive is US-101 to the Mullholland Dr exit. Then it's R on Valmar Dr -> R on Mullholland Hwy -> L on Old Topanga Canyon Rd, take that all the way to CA-27 -> CA-27 S all the way to PCH (CA-1). Take PCH to the airport. When 101/405 traffic is horrendous beyond belief, this route takes roughly the same amount of time.

[Max Rockatansky]

CA 23 through Decker Canyon south of Mulholland Highway's is the real gem of a drive in that area.

[Quillz]

A short portion of Mulholland Highway is part of CA-23. The rest has never been part of the state highway system, except for what Max posted about a potential CA-268.

As an aside, something odd about Topanga Canyon Boulevard/CA-27 is that it doesn't appear to actually be newer than Old Topanga Canyon Road to the west. That has never carried CA-27, and there's no evidence I've been able to find that it's actually an older road or alignment. Seems they have existed for roughly the same amount of time. So I'm not sure why that name was chosen. There have been minor changes to CA-27 as Topanga Canyon Boulevard once ended at Victory Boulevard. But everything south of Ventura has been unchanged.

From the Conejo Valley to LAX, a much more scenic and bearable drive is US-101 to the Mullholland Dr exit. Then it's R on Valmar Dr -> R on Mullholland Hwy -> L on Old Topanga Canyon Rd, take that all the way to CA-27 -> CA-27 S all the way to PCH (CA-1). Take PCH to the airport. When 101/405 traffic is horrendous beyond belief, this route takes roughly the same amount of time.

Yup, I do this all the time. I live right off the Mulholland Drive exit. I work near the airport so I take CA-27 every so often.

[JustDrive]

Was Kanan ever considered for a state highway? It's the quickest route from the Conejo Valley to the ocean, and it's 55 mph the whole way down.

[Max Rockatansky]

Was Kanan ever considered for a state highway? It's the quickest route from the Conejo Valley to the ocean, and it's 55 mph the whole way down.

Considering it never had a legislative route adoption the answer is likely no.  There was a run of highways the state took over in 1972 that were updated to state standards.  If there was a time for Kanan to be added it would have been then.

[Quillz]

Was Kanan ever considered for a state highway? It's the quickest route from the Conejo Valley to the ocean, and it's 55 mph the whole way down.

Kanan-Dume was built in the 1950s. So it came after the initial wave of state highways. It's nowadays a county highway. I always felt it would have made a better CA-23, but it never got adopted for w/e reason. Originally Latigo Canyon Road was the way down from Mulholland Highway to PCH. It's a long, twisty drive that isn't recommended. I believe it was around 1955 Kanan-Dume Road was completed.

[Max Rockatansky]

23 likely stayed where it is due to everything north of US 101 actually being quite valuable as local transportation corridors.  Daniel and I theorized that Decker Canyon was adopted in 1933 due to it being the last road you could turn inland from Malibu before Roosevelt Highway (LRN 60) was completed.

[Plutonic Panda]

I really wish we could connect a better grid and at least turn that segment into a narrow low speed road that would allow for cars and be paved.

Not really much point anymore. It's a very popular area for hiking, biking, and offers some green space that is badly needed in the Los Angeles area. And even if it was paved and low speed, there is virtually no reason to ever take it. It's narrow, windy, and doesn't get you anywhere that the freeways don't do much more quickly and safely. And if it's a matter of wanting a nice view, well, that's what the biking, hiking, walking is for.

And that's ignoring the NIMBY issues that would arise.

Without the NIMBY element, I highly disagree there isn't a point for it. It reconnects the grid and many neighborhoods streets like Mandeville canyon road could be reconnected to the valley and this road. There's ton and tons of hiking trails around LA. They could still maintain and hiking/biking trail and have a 18 ft. roadbed for vehicles. Both the 101 and Ventura can become absolute nightmares to drive on. With no proposals for expansions of those roads(and heck I wouldn't be surprised to lose a car lane on Ventura for a bus lane in the coming years) reconnecting the grid seems the most logical.

The NIMBYs need to just be dealt with in a way where they need to understand they live in a massive metropolis and shutting off public roads to prevent through traffic is unacceptable.

PS, I hike and bike in this area all the time. What this could be paired with is a massive project to redo Mulholland drive from the 405 to the 101 to add a 4 foot hiking trail on the side of the road, bike lanes where possible, and burying of utility lines. This might appease to the hiking crowd to some extent.

Obviously this will never happen so it's complete fantasy.

[Quillz]

You say "reconnect" but those roads were never connected to begin with. And the low speed and narrow lanes aren't going to do much to deal with traffic on the 101 or the 405. All it will do is encourage even more traffic.

The NIMBYs need to just be dealt with in a way where they need to understand they live in a massive metropolis and shutting off public roads to prevent through traffic is unacceptable.

Well the people of South Pasadena have been told that for more than half a century at this point. It's not very effective. I would also hazard a guess many people who live on Mandeville Canyon and other roads quite like the lack of thru traffic.

[Plutonic Panda]

The people of south Pasadena were allowed to get away with it because we let it happen. Metro took an anti freeway stance. They should have been largely ignored for the greater good and their opinions on record.

I wasn't suggesting narrowing lanes or lowering speeds on the 101 either.

If these roads didn't originally connect then that was a mistake and they should connect. So let me rephrase it then. They should connect for the sake of connecting the grid better. Traffic flows better and mobility is better overall when you have a better connected grid instead of trying to funnel traffic into a select few areas.

Opening this segment back up to cars would allow for another way to move east to west even if takes a bit longer and is slower. Currently you have PCH, 101, and Ventura. Only one of which is a freeway. Both others are low speed surface roads.

[Quillz]

The Santa Monica Mountains are more rugged than you think. It wasn't some nefarious plot to not connect these roads, it's that it is geographically infeasible. And again, you are ignoring the irony of the situation. More roads, more freeways creates MORE traffic, not less. You could make the 101 30 lanes wide and it would still get traffic jams. Having a paved Mulholland Drive would not solve traffic issues, it would only contribute to them.

I also would not consider the 55-60 mph you can do on PCH to be a "low speed surface road." And that's assuming people follow the speed limit and don't regularly drive 10-20 above it, which they do.

[Plutonic Panda]

The old "more roads create more traffic"  malarkey give me a break. No one is going out to sit in LA traffic because they opened a new lane. You need to familiarize yourself with latent demand. I'm very familiar with these mountains I just back from a hike this morning. I've hiked on just about every single trail there is here. It is perfectly possible and feasible to do it. The developers of Mandeville Canyon Estates just didn't want the road to connect through because they wanted to market the area as a sealed off "private"  community. If people in Topanga or Laurel Canyons had their way they'd cut off access just so they didn't have to deal with through traffic.

The speed limit on PCH through here is 45MPH. I've seen people go 70MPH on Ventura. I've seen people 100+ on the 101 and hang in the left lane going 40MPH. So what. It's a roadway with a posted limit of 45MPH. It's not a high speed roadway and is jammed packed with traffic on beach days and rush hour. Yes there need to be alternatives and this is it. One day rail should be considered but right now this is the most realistic from a cost perspective.

[pderocco]

As an aside, something odd about Topanga Canyon Boulevard/CA-27 is that it doesn't appear to actually be newer than Old Topanga Canyon Road to the west. That has never carried CA-27, and there's no evidence I've been able to find that it's actually an older road or alignment. Seems they have existed for roughly the same amount of time. So I'm not sure why that name was chosen.

It's probably the name that was "old". Perhaps the current alignment was called something else, and they wanted to steer traffic onto it, so they moved the name, and in a fit of creative genius came up with "Old Topanga Canyon Rd". Of course, they could have called it "Topanga Canyon Rd" because that's different from "Topanga Canyon Blvd".