Has anyone else driven US 23 in/through Virginia? It's a 4 lane road with a 55 mph speed limit. I drove it last week. Almost a non-existent left shoulder and a very narrow right shoulder. What jumped out at me was how uneven the grading was on this road. This was especially the case in the Pound and Norton areas. It had the feel of driving a secondary country road. Is this common for 4 lane roads in Virginia? It was huge contrast the the 2 lane roads I was on in Kentucky prior to driving this stretch.
The four lane section of US 23 in Tennessee is well graded with sufficient shoulders as well.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 07, 2016, 12:56:36 PM
The four lane section of US 23 in Tennessee is well graded with sufficient shoulders as well.
Yes, I noticed that, too.
When Virginia twinned a bunch of their highways in the 1960s-70s they did not rebuild the original alignment. Many alignments in the 1920s-30s followed the terrain pretty closely so the roads were often straight but wavy with limited efforts to make grades gradual like is done with a new road today.
Today they do rebuild the original carriageway if they twin a highway.
I came up with a term "Virginia Twinning" for this. It's not just US 23 that got this treatment, but a whole lot of other roads as well all over the state. The example I drove most recently was US 522 between the West Virginia state line and Winchester.
Quote from: Mapmikey on July 07, 2016, 01:54:03 PM
When Virginia twinned a bunch of their highways in the 1960s-70s they did not rebuild the original alignment. Many alignments in the 1920s-30s followed the terrain pretty closely so the roads were often straight but wavy with limited efforts to make grades gradual like is done with a new road today.
Today they do rebuild the original carriageway if they twin a highway.
Alabama does it too with US 278 east of Cullman. You have one side wavy with the terrain and the other side leveled out.
Yes Virginia was big on that having one side wavy and the other level. In fact even US 301 where I-95 runs next to it or where the US route is now the frontage road of the freeway between Jaratt and Petersburg had its southbound lanes wavy while the NB lanes were more evenly graded. That explains why US 301 is using its southbound and original alignment where the interstate stole half of its alignment.
VA 168 was that way west of Williamsburg before I-64 took over. The EB lanes were wavy while the WB lanes were level, however a wide median with a forest in it prevented you from noticing. Then again VDOT used the level grade to make the EB freeway, and converted the EB wavy lanes into the interstate service road. So in essence the two lane alignment that was the original VA 168 went from two way to one way and back to two way.
The four-lane section of VA 30 east of US 60 is like that. I figured it was leftover from the 168 days.
https://goo.gl/maps/t2e7FsgXmfy
This is the same as US 422 between Parkman and Warren. The eastbound side goes up and down every little hill and valley. While the newer westbound side is basically flat the entire way.
Md. 2/Md. 4 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6521407,-76.6064167,3a,75y,166.43h,75.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stxPq5QlzLHWsEKet_n399A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in Calvert County, same thing. Here the northbound side is the old two lane road, and the southbound side (where the GSV camera is located) is more modern.
Md. 3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9995912,-76.7007202,3a,75y,187.98h,91.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgq6KyTv2ymy2MllFmWz6WA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in Anne Arundel County. The camera is looking south along the "old" side of the road.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Whitehouse,+Readington+Township,+NJ/@40.6334783,-74.7837199,3a,66.8y,306.37h,83.04t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sdjLkqX6YE6tO2dGeZyYaAA!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x89c392f143ba6081:0x3626ca51b9e5cd54
US 22 in Readington Township, NJ has it as well. Look at the hump on the WB side here (where the camera is) while the other side of the road has no hump.
US-29 in the Charlottesville area from Rio Road to Hydraulic Road used to be that way, with the southbound side a sort of roller coaster and the northbound side flat, until it was widened and flattened out in the 1993—95 timeframe.
Lots of US 1 between Petersburg and South Hill is this way. It's also a more relaxing drive than I-85 in that area.
Quote from: Takumi on July 07, 2016, 10:41:00 PM
Lots of US 1 between Petersburg and South Hill is this way. It's also a more relaxing drive than I-85 in that area.
I always loved that section with the alternating center passing lane. In fact up until 2002, some areas were striped with the orange broken lines in the center which was the classic suicide passing lane.
The divided sections in between had not only the two road grade types, but had the old side with trusses and the new side more modern. In days of old bridges were kept the same for the old road, as of now they rebuild the entire bridge to be as modern as its new counterpart. Even in NJ you used to see on US 1 & 9 in Newark you saw the SB lanes pass through a truss over the now defunct CNJ Newark Branch, while the NB side had no truss. I believe still in Sayreville NJ 35 over the North Jersey Coastline commuter RR has a warren truss bridge for NB 35 and a regular bridge over the RR on the SB side.
Wichita, KS still has two different types of bridges over the Arkanas River on Broadway that is night and day as the current NB side was added years after the SB bridge that used to be for both directions.
Those days are as gone as the former Weight Limit signs on rural NY bridges that even existed well into the 80's. Plus even NY used to use Warren Truss bridges on many rural roads over creeks and other waterways which most of them been replaced in recent road projects. Those trusses brought in so much to the area and the aesthetics of the road itself. Ahh!
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 07, 2016, 09:56:47 PM
Md. 2/Md. 4 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6521407,-76.6064167,3a,75y,166.43h,75.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stxPq5QlzLHWsEKet_n399A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in Calvert County, same thing. Here the northbound side is the old two lane road, and the southbound side (where the GSV camera is located) is more modern.
Md. 3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9995912,-76.7007202,3a,75y,187.98h,91.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgq6KyTv2ymy2MllFmWz6WA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in Anne Arundel County. The camera is looking south along the "old" side of the road.
I'll add in 301 between Cheltingham and Upper Marlboro is the same way, the Southbound lanes and Northbound lanes switch back and forth between the MD 3 alignment though.
A number of states did this sort of thing, up until the point where FHWA started requiring that the old roadbed be reconstructed. In my Mississippi experience, this generally did not happen until the early 2000's.
Quote from: froggie on July 13, 2016, 01:41:52 PM
A number of states did this sort of thing, up until the point where FHWA started requiring that the old roadbed be reconstructed. In my Mississippi experience, this generally did not happen until the early 2000's.
Wish I had photos (I wasn't as prolific at taking them back then) but on my first drive across US 68 in the southwestern part of Kentucky after it was four-laned, one side used the original up-and-down alignment, while the other used a flat alignment. I may have an old VHS-C tape of that trip but I have no idea where it is. The old alignment has since been reconstructed, but for awhile US 68 definitely was like that.
Another example is US 60 west of Hawesville, Ky.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 07, 2016, 03:16:03 PM
I came up with a term "Virginia Twinning" for this. It's not just US 23 that got this treatment, but a whole lot of other roads as well all over the state. The example I drove most recently was US 522 between the West Virginia state line and Winchester.
US 460 is like that for most of its length, especially in Southwest Virginia. One of the first sections done, because the two-lane road was narrow with lots of curves, was between Narrows and Glen Lyn in Giles County. VDOH (at that time) condemned the former Virginian Railway, which had a nice level grade along the New River, while the road clung to the bluffs up above. The Norfolk & Western Railway (which had taken over the VGN in a merger) got two new bridges out of the deal, to cross from the VGN in Kellysville, West Virginia to the N&W tracks on the other side of the East River and to cross back to the VGN tracks south of Narrows. The westbound lanes were closed for several weeks last month following yet another rock slide on the outside of the lane, which had to be shored up. It wouldn't take too much work to add two more lanes next to the eastbound lanes to get the traffic off the narrow twisting lanes above.
Other sections of 460 received the same treatment in the '60s and '70s, with some sections being totally replaced with a new alignment (mainly going west from Blacksburg over Brush and Gap mountains) but other sections, such as between Blacksburg and Christiansburg, are twinned. Heading east into and out of Montvale is another place where the eastbound lanes dip and curve while the westbound lanes are much straighter with better vertical curves. A project is now on the books to eliminate the curves and stiff climb east out of Montvale.
Bruce in Blacksburg
Quote from: VTGoose on July 14, 2016, 09:53:33 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 07, 2016, 03:16:03 PM
I came up with a term "Virginia Twinning" for this. It's not just US 23 that got this treatment, but a whole lot of other roads as well all over the state. The example I drove most recently was US 522 between the West Virginia state line and Winchester.
US 460 is like that for most of its length, especially in Southwest Virginia. One of the first sections done, because the two-lane road was narrow with lots of curves, was between Narrows and Glen Lyn in Giles County. VDOH (at that time) condemned the former Virginian Railway, which had a nice level grade along the New River, while the road clung to the bluffs up above. The Norfolk & Western Railway (which had taken over the VGN in a merger) got two new bridges out of the deal, to cross from the VGN in Kellysville, West Virginia to the N&W tracks on the other side of the East River and to cross back to the VGN tracks south of Narrows. The westbound lanes were closed for several weeks last month following yet another rock slide on the outside of the lane, which had to be shored up. It wouldn't take too much work to add two more lanes next to the eastbound lanes to get the traffic off the narrow twisting lanes above.
Other sections of 460 received the same treatment in the '60s and '70s, with some sections being totally replaced with a new alignment (mainly going west from Blacksburg over Brush and Gap mountains) but other sections, such as between Blacksburg and Christiansburg, are twinned. Heading east into and out of Montvale is another place where the eastbound lanes dip and curve while the westbound lanes are much straighter with better vertical curves. A project is now on the books to eliminate the curves and stiff climb east out of Montvale.
Bruce in Blacksburg
Does Virginia still do that "twinning"? just wondering because I didn't know most roads there was "twinned" until this post.
Not in the traditional sense, as FHWA generally requires now that the old lanes be reconstructed. Also, most of Virginia's recent rural 4-lane projects have been on new location.
Quote from: froggie on July 15, 2016, 09:59:33 AM
Not in the traditional sense, as FHWA generally requires now that the old lanes be reconstructed. Also, most of Virginia's recent rural 4-lane projects have been on new location.
Cool. Thanks for explaining it. Do you know if any other states did the same thing, or is it just Virginia?
"did the same thing" as in "Virginia twinning"? Or as in reconstructing the old lanes? The short answer to both is "yes".
Now that this is mentioned, I believe a couple of interstates in my area are like this. If I remember right, some portions of I-81 north of Carlisle had the SB lanes being a rollercoaster ride, while the NB lanes had a flat alignment. I believe this was fixed around 2008.
Quote from: froggie on July 15, 2016, 01:30:22 PM
"did the same thing" as in "Virginia twinning"? Or as in reconstructing the old lanes? The short answer to both is "yes".
Sorry if my question wasn't clear. Yes, I was referring to "Virginia Twinning". Again, my apologizes. The "same" thing is happening to US 220 between Greensboro and the future I-73 interchange in Summerfield, NC. They built a new parallel lane that will be southbound lanes, and modified the old road (future northbound lanes) by making some changes and then cover it with new asphalt. The reason I put "same" is because I am not sure if that is called "twinning" or just a rebuild. Some parts of US 220 is being torn down and rebuilt, however.
QuoteNow that this is mentioned, I believe a couple of interstates in my area are like this. If I remember right, some portions of I-81 north of Carlisle had the SB lanes being a rollercoaster ride, while the NB lanes had a flat alignment.
Not the same thing. This thread is referring to 2-lane highways that had a set of parallel lanes built to make it 4 lanes, but where minimal (if any) work was done with the original set of lanes.
Quote from: Strider on July 15, 2016, 02:07:34 PM
Quote from: froggie on July 15, 2016, 01:30:22 PM
"did the same thing" as in "Virginia twinning"? Or as in reconstructing the old lanes? The short answer to both is "yes".
Sorry if my question wasn't clear. Yes, I was referring to "Virginia Twinning". Again, my apologizes. The "same" thing is happening to US 220 between Greensboro and the future I-73 interchange in Summerfield, NC. They built a new parallel lane that will be southbound lanes, and modified the old road (future northbound lanes) by making some changes and then cover it with new asphalt. The reason I put "same" is because I am not sure if that is called "twinning" or just a rebuild. Some parts of US 220 is being torn down and rebuilt, however.
"Virginia Twinning" is just a term I came up with years ago to describe the conversion of a two-lane route to a four-lane route merely by building one new parallel carriageway and not making any changes, or only minimal ones, to the existing route.
Quote from: froggie on July 15, 2016, 11:07:46 PM
QuoteNow that this is mentioned, I believe a couple of interstates in my area are like this. If I remember right, some portions of I-81 north of Carlisle had the SB lanes being a rollercoaster ride, while the NB lanes had a flat alignment.
Not the same thing. This thread is referring to 2-lane highways that had a set of parallel lanes built to make it 4 lanes, but where minimal (if any) work was done with the original set of lanes.
I-35 in Liberty, MO just north of the junction with 152 has that situation. The northbound lanes are the original US69 roadbed while the SB lanes were added when it became an interstate. I-44 sort of has that in stretches between Springfield and St. Louis. When US66 was twinned, many times it was on a new alignment. When it was converted to I-44, one set of lanes became the frontage roads while a new set of lanes was built on the other side.
Fixed quote -Mark
I've noticed when driving on US 29 in VA, northbound 29 seems to go up and down while southbound 29 is more straight. Why is that the case and not the opposite?
For the segments of US 29 that do this, the NB and SB carriageways were built 30-40 years apart. Virginia did not even out the terrain very much when building their first versions of highways in the 1920s-30s and during the widenings of the 50s-70s they did not reconstruct the original side (today they usually do reconstruct the older side if it isn't flat).
If for US 29 it is always the case that the NB side is the wavy side, that is just a coincidence and happenstance related to issues I'm sure relating to right of way acquisition and whichever was the easier side to clear out for construction. I know that there are some places where the railroad is next to the NB side so it made total sense to build the second carriageway for the SB side.
I merged these topics together with a new title (see above) since they both seem to just be about the twinning of highways in VA while the original alignment was not rebuilt.
Anyone can obviously decide to make a new thread on specifically US 23, US 29, etc.
Thanks,
Mark
Quote from: hbelkins on July 16, 2016, 05:29:30 PM
Quote from: Strider on July 15, 2016, 02:07:34 PM
Quote from: froggie on July 15, 2016, 01:30:22 PM
"did the same thing" as in "Virginia twinning"? Or as in reconstructing the old lanes? The short answer to both is "yes".
Sorry if my question wasn't clear. Yes, I was referring to "Virginia Twinning". Again, my apologizes. The "same" thing is happening to US 220 between Greensboro and the future I-73 interchange in Summerfield, NC. They built a new parallel lane that will be southbound lanes, and modified the old road (future northbound lanes) by making some changes and then cover it with new asphalt. The reason I put "same" is because I am not sure if that is called "twinning" or just a rebuild. Some parts of US 220 is being torn down and rebuilt, however.
"Virginia Twinning" is just a term I came up with years ago to describe the conversion of a two-lane route to a four-lane route merely by building one new parallel carriageway and not making any changes, or only minimal ones, to the existing route.
Nice term. File with "Jersey wall".
In my conscious memory, I've seen more than one example of "Virginia twinning", as you call it, on Delaware roads...
- DE 896 from Porter Road to DE 71 at the north end of the Summit Bridge
- DE 896/DE 71 from the south end of the Summit Bridge to Boyds Corner Road (the Summit Bridge itself was already built as a 4-lane although a couple of times in its history it was reduced to one lane each way for redecking/maintenance)
- what is today DE 1 in several stretches between the south end of Dover AFB and DE 16, and again when the 1965-vintage Indian River Inlet bridge (not the current cable stayed version) received a parallel span, and again between South Bethany and the DE/MD line. (The stretch between DE 16 and U.S. 9/DE 404 was *probably* Virginia-twinned in the late '60s [except for the hamlet of Nassau and the Broadkill River drawbridge which were completely bypassed, and the Broadkill drawbridge removed], though I don't remember the construction.)
- U.S. 113 between just south of Milford and just north of Georgetown
(I cite these upgrades just as I think of them, not in any particular order)
Would the building of parallel spans of the Delaware Memorial Bridge and the two Chesapeake Bay crossings count as "Virginia twinnings", or don't bridges qualify (as in my DE 1 Indian River Inlet example)?
ixnay
Quite a few of these in Missouri. US 63 north of Columbia is the example that comes to mind - one carriageway will be perfectly flat and straight, while the other one looks like a rollercoaster. US 60 between Springfield and Cabool has several spots like this also.
I found myself thinking about this thread today because we drove up US-29 from Greensboro to the US-15 turnoff to Haymarket (the latter endpoint due to traffic). One way to determine which carriageway is older in many cases in Virginia, though it's certainly not a perfect method, is to look at the bridges over any waterways. It's usually pretty easy to tell which style is older.
Is US 13 across the CBBT this way? It was in 2007
Quote from: OracleUsr on July 31, 2016, 08:16:26 PM
Is US 13 across the CBBT this way? It was in 2007
Ought-seven was the last time I went over and through the CBBT as well.
The original CBBT bridges, trestles, causeway, and tubes were finished in 1964. The parallel bridges, trestles, and causeway went in in the late '90s, but the tunnels afaik are still single tubes, though there has been talk of double tubing one of the tunnels.
ixnay
Quote from: ixnay on July 31, 2016, 08:20:30 PM
Quote from: OracleUsr on July 31, 2016, 08:16:26 PM
Is US 13 across the CBBT this way? It was in 2007
Ought-seven was the last time I went over and through the CBBT as well.
The original CBBT bridges, trestles, causeway, and tubes were finished in 1964. The parallel bridges, trestles, and causeway went in in the late '90s, but the tunnels afaik are still single tubes, though there has been talk of double tubing one of the tunnels.
ixnay
Yeah, they are currently single tubes. VDOT will be twinning the Thimble Shoal Tunnel over the next few years.
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 31, 2016, 09:06:05 PM
Yeah, they are currently single tubes. VDOT The Chesapeake Bay Bridge and Tunnel District will be twinning the Thimble Shoal Tunnel over the next few years.
FTFY.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 07, 2016, 09:56:47 PM
Md. 2/Md. 4 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6521407,-76.6064167,3a,75y,166.43h,75.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stxPq5QlzLHWsEKet_n399A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in Calvert County, same thing. Here the northbound side is the old two lane road, and the southbound side (where the GSV camera is located) is more modern.
Md. 3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9995912,-76.7007202,3a,75y,187.98h,91.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgq6KyTv2ymy2MllFmWz6WA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in Anne Arundel County. The camera is looking south along the "old" side of the road.
MD 260 in Calvert County is an especially strong example of this style of dual carriage way. The segment between the interchange with E Mount Harmony Road and the western end of MD 775 near Chesapeake Beach has very steep differences in grade and slope between the eastbound side and the westbound side.
Regarding the CBBT question, one could say yes, to a degree. On the main part of the CBBT, the northbound lanes were the original lanes...they were significantly rehabbed after the parallel trestles were completed in 1999, and emergency pull-off areas were added, but the northbound lanes still lack a full shoulder on the trestles and this is the big way you can tell they were the original lanes (that and the through truss at the North Channel crossing versus the high-bridge-but-no-superstructure on the southbound lanes at North Channel).
However, on Fishermans Island and north to the toll plaza, the southbound lanes were the original lanes. You can tell this in the lack of a shoulder over Fisherman Inlet (between the island and the Eastern Shore mainland) on the southbound side. However, the CBBT Commission (as they're also called) did add shoulders to the original lanes on land (Fisherman Island itself plus north of the inlet to the toll plaza).
US 58 between South Hill and Emporia is the best example I can think of...
Forget Virginia twinning. May I present Mexitwinning?
http://www.google.com/maps/@15.3212206,-92.6819796,13.55z
http://www.google.com/maps/@25.616116,-102.7197172,12.66z
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2016, 07:36:00 PM
I found myself thinking about this thread today because we drove up US-29 from Greensboro to the US-15 turnoff to Haymarket (the latter endpoint due to traffic). One way to determine which carriageway is older in many cases in Virginia, though it's certainly not a perfect method, is to look at the bridges over any waterways. It's usually pretty easy to tell which style is older.
VDOT recently reopened US 29's northbound lanes approaching Vint Hill Rd. SW of Gainesville (https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/now-open-traffic-flows-again-on-u-s-at-vint/article_cfcb0e52-b608-11e9-ae72-1f30b2656b05.html), after a month-long closure to level out that roller-coastery NB segment. Problem was northbound US 29 traffic coming over a hill was slamming into traffic stopped at the Vint Hill traffic light.
Quote from: plain on October 04, 2016, 05:05:15 AM
US 58 between South Hill and Emporia is the best example I can think of...
Other parts of US-58 west of Boydton are also like this.
US-58 between Boydton and South Hill and between Emporia and Suffolk are mostly flat as that section wasn't dualized until the 80s - 2000s.
Iowa does it too. US 218 IA 27 Avenue of the Saints. Illinois generally used the old road but builds them up and adds shoulders. I 155 is an example
Another example is U.S. 301 in King George County, Virginia (and also, I believe, parts of U.S. 301 in Caroline County, Virginia north of Bowling Green).
In King George, long parts of 301 on the northbound side are clearly inferior to the southbound side, which is a much more modern design, for reasons cited above.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 07, 2016, 03:16:03 PM
I came up with a term "Virginia Twinning" for this. It's not just US 23 that got this treatment, but a whole lot of other roads as well all over the state. The example I drove most recently was US 522 between the West Virginia state line and Winchester.
Always felt like you could go airborne on some of those hills going southbound. The southbound section of US 17 north of Warrenton also has some nice tree covered dips in the road, while the northbound side is relatively steady grade wise.
Quote from: oscar on September 07, 2019, 06:40:02 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2016, 07:36:00 PM
I found myself thinking about this thread today because we drove up US-29 from Greensboro to the US-15 turnoff to Haymarket (the latter endpoint due to traffic). One way to determine which carriageway is older in many cases in Virginia, though it's certainly not a perfect method, is to look at the bridges over any waterways. It's usually pretty easy to tell which style is older.
VDOT recently reopened US 29's northbound lanes approaching Vint Hill Rd. SW of Gainesville (https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/now-open-traffic-flows-again-on-u-s-at-vint/article_cfcb0e52-b608-11e9-ae72-1f30b2656b05.html), after a month-long closure to level out that roller-coastery NB segment. Problem was northbound US 29 traffic coming over a hill was slamming into traffic stopped at the Vint Hill traffic light.
While what they did was a huge improvement, I wish they had gone a little further, as the hills just before and after the section that was re-graded are not exactly great. Still, I'm sure this will greatly reduce the accident rate.
In Ohio, SR 18 between I-71 and I-77 was previously an example of Virginia twinning. One direction (I don't recall which) was the original rolling grade and the other was built to smooth out hills. It led to some unusually steep median crossovers at intersections. About 15 years ago, ODOT rebuilt the entire stretch so it is a single 5-lane roadway rather than dual carriageways.
Quote from: famartin on September 10, 2019, 12:43:49 AM
Quote from: oscar on September 07, 2019, 06:40:02 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2016, 07:36:00 PM
I found myself thinking about this thread today because we drove up US-29 from Greensboro to the US-15 turnoff to Haymarket (the latter endpoint due to traffic). One way to determine which carriageway is older in many cases in Virginia, though it's certainly not a perfect method, is to look at the bridges over any waterways. It's usually pretty easy to tell which style is older.
VDOT recently reopened US 29's northbound lanes approaching Vint Hill Rd. SW of Gainesville (https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/now-open-traffic-flows-again-on-u-s-at-vint/article_cfcb0e52-b608-11e9-ae72-1f30b2656b05.html), after a month-long closure to level out that roller-coastery NB segment. Problem was northbound US 29 traffic coming over a hill was slamming into traffic stopped at the Vint Hill traffic light.
While what they did was a huge improvement, I wish they had gone a little further, as the hills just before and after the section that was re-graded are not exactly great. Still, I'm sure this will greatly reduce the accident rate.
I'm surprised, and somewhat disappointed, that they didn't upgrade/widen the right shoulder.
Quote from: famartin on September 10, 2019, 12:43:49 AM
Quote from: oscar on September 07, 2019, 06:40:02 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2016, 07:36:00 PM
I found myself thinking about this thread today because we drove up US-29 from Greensboro to the US-15 turnoff to Haymarket (the latter endpoint due to traffic). One way to determine which carriageway is older in many cases in Virginia, though it's certainly not a perfect method, is to look at the bridges over any waterways. It's usually pretty easy to tell which style is older.
VDOT recently reopened US 29's northbound lanes approaching Vint Hill Rd. SW of Gainesville (https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/now-open-traffic-flows-again-on-u-s-at-vint/article_cfcb0e52-b608-11e9-ae72-1f30b2656b05.html), after a month-long closure to level out that roller-coastery NB segment. Problem was northbound US 29 traffic coming over a hill was slamming into traffic stopped at the Vint Hill traffic light.
While what they did was a huge improvement, I wish they had gone a little further, as the hills just before and after the section that was re-graded are not exactly great. Still, I'm sure this will greatly reduce the accident rate.
I've only been through there in the other direction since that work was done (came home via a different route), but from what I could see the sight lines appeared to be a serious improvement.
I sometimes wondered whether that would have been a place to use a warning signal that flashes when the light ahead is red.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 10, 2019, 10:48:08 AM
I sometimes wondered whether that would have been a place to use a warning signal that flashes when the light ahead is red.
There were quite a few warning postings:
Signal ahead (signs and pavement marking) 1/2 mile ahead - https://goo.gl/maps/QXQpQCf3wCjvE5Ry9
Another signal ahead sign further up - https://goo.gl/maps/HFbqebA9Not7A3zA9
Watch for stopped vehicles plus rumble strips about 1/4 mile from VA 215 - https://goo.gl/maps/6yWWTwTgSDsmqCtE7
A second set of rumble strips nearby
Be prepared to stop when flashing (installed 2017) - https://goo.gl/maps/UsdmTN3Mw5Xz3Pj86
A third set of rumble strips
Watch for stopped traffic when flashing (back to at least 2008) - https://goo.gl/maps/sAmFUUU1eFUAB8Mb6
IMO this last sign was too close to VA 215...perched at the top of the rise you couldn't see over. This one needed to be back a good bit farther.
Quote from: froggie on September 10, 2019, 10:02:35 AM
Quote from: famartin on September 10, 2019, 12:43:49 AM
Quote from: oscar on September 07, 2019, 06:40:02 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2016, 07:36:00 PM
I found myself thinking about this thread today because we drove up US-29 from Greensboro to the US-15 turnoff to Haymarket (the latter endpoint due to traffic). One way to determine which carriageway is older in many cases in Virginia, though it's certainly not a perfect method, is to look at the bridges over any waterways. It's usually pretty easy to tell which style is older.
VDOT recently reopened US 29's northbound lanes approaching Vint Hill Rd. SW of Gainesville (https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/now-open-traffic-flows-again-on-u-s-at-vint/article_cfcb0e52-b608-11e9-ae72-1f30b2656b05.html), after a month-long closure to level out that roller-coastery NB segment. Problem was northbound US 29 traffic coming over a hill was slamming into traffic stopped at the Vint Hill traffic light.
While what they did was a huge improvement, I wish they had gone a little further, as the hills just before and after the section that was re-graded are not exactly great. Still, I'm sure this will greatly reduce the accident rate.
I'm surprised, and somewhat disappointed, that they didn't upgrade/widen the right shoulder.
You'd think that'd be a basic design feature - especially if they're trying to bring it up to "current design standards".
Then again, if you look at states like North Carolina, a standard design for a four-lane divided highway is 12 foot travel lanes and 4 foot paved shoulders, not 10 foot. Still though, there's also clearsides and a graded ~12 foot shoulder strong enough to stop on if needed.
Quote from: Mapmikey on July 07, 2016, 01:54:03 PM
When Virginia twinned a bunch of their highways in the 1960s-70s they did not rebuild the original alignment. Many alignments in the 1920s-30s followed the terrain pretty closely so the roads were often straight but wavy with limited efforts to make grades gradual like is done with a new road today.
Today they do rebuild the original carriageway if they twin a highway.
Alabama too, as US 278 east of Cullman is that way.
Also US 22 in Readington Township, NJ has a small part where one side of US 22 follows the topography of the land while the other is made more level. Oh yes NJ 23 is that way in West Milford as well, but with winding curves on the NB side while its counterpart in the next municipality (as the Kinnelon- West Milford Border runs the middle of the wide median of the highway) is more straight aligned.
In Michigan, M-121 (Chicago Dr) was twinned in a similar fashion, with the WB lanes generally following the original alignment (and bouncing up and down heightwise) while the EB lanes are higher up and more level.
Quote from: ModernDayWarrior on July 31, 2016, 01:06:22 AM
Quite a few of these in Missouri. US 63 north of Columbia is the example that comes to mind - one carriageway will be perfectly flat and straight, while the other one looks like a rollercoaster. US 60 between Springfield and Cabool has several spots like this also.
U.S. 36 east of Marceline is one of the most flagrant offenders in Missouri, from my experience. The eastbound lanes are like a damn roller coaster. Not only that, but the alignment shifts abruptly too. The westbound lanes east of the Marceline interchange are perfectly straight with the eastbound lanes through the interchange.
In Tennessee, US 64/74 from east of Cleveland to US 441 was originally built like this, with the westbound carriageway being original and the eastbound being new (I think), but they recently fixed this and rebuilt/leveled out the original carriageway. I think US 11E b/w I-81 and Greeneville is the only remaining roadway in TN that was built "VA style" , with the southbound side, I believe, being the original carriageway and northbound being newer.
Oklahoma has quite a few of those. OK51 east from I-35 to Stillwater, OK33 between Cushing and Drumright, OK7 from East Lawton to Pumpkin Center, and US81 from Okarche to Kingfisher are the ones that come immediately to mind.
Quote from: oscar on September 07, 2019, 06:40:02 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2016, 07:36:00 PM
I found myself thinking about this thread today because we drove up US-29 from Greensboro to the US-15 turnoff to Haymarket (the latter endpoint due to traffic). One way to determine which carriageway is older in many cases in Virginia, though it's certainly not a perfect method, is to look at the bridges over any waterways. It's usually pretty easy to tell which style is older.
VDOT recently reopened US 29's northbound lanes approaching Vint Hill Rd. SW of Gainesville (https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/now-open-traffic-flows-again-on-u-s-at-vint/article_cfcb0e52-b608-11e9-ae72-1f30b2656b05.html), after a month-long closure to level out that roller-coastery NB segment. Problem was northbound US 29 traffic coming over a hill was slamming into traffic stopped at the Vint Hill traffic light.
Street view has been updated through this area from September 2019, showing the improvements. Additionally, all of the previous warning signage has been removed as the signal is now visible from afar.
Before - https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7771953,-77.6834582,3a,49y,234.07h,84.5t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sIbCjqwqWLefvJlycBAJ0Lg!2e0!5s20170901T000000!7i13312!8i6656
After - https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7771928,-77.6834866,3a,48.4y,236.81h,84.06t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1snqFbeEn6FsBS2q5WICloEQ!2e0!5s20180501T000000!7i16384!8i8192