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Started by mgk920, June 19, 2013, 11:50:55 AM

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Eth

I would assume it ends up being either 30 or 32 like the other major North American leagues, though the current general scheduling paradigm of home/home in-conference plus once against the rest might get unwieldy if they stay with two conferences – at 2x16, you'd be looking at 46 games per season. I suppose that's not impossible, though; the English leagues below the Premier League play that many in their 24-team setups. Still probably not ideal in terms of fixture congestion.


Alps

I don't think we'll ever see promotion/relegation in American sports regardless. Our fanbase is just not built that way. We want to root for real times, not minor leagues.

mgk920

Quote from: Eth on August 20, 2019, 04:32:38 PM
I would assume it ends up being either 30 or 32 like the other major North American leagues, though the current general scheduling paradigm of home/home in-conference plus once against the rest might get unwieldy if they stay with two conferences – at 2x16, you'd be looking at 46 games per season. I suppose that's not impossible, though; the English leagues below the Premier League play that many in their 24-team setups. Still probably not ideal in terms of fixture congestion.

A few years ago I pondered that thought and figured that a 30 team league with two 15 team conferences would work out schedule formula-wise.  What I came up with:

- Home/home v. the rest of the teams in their own conference (28 games)
- One game each season against each of the teams in the opposite conference, with the home v. away determination being formula based, plus home/home v. the team that finished the previous season in the same standings position in the opposite conference (16 games)

Total 44 games.

Remember that in Europe, many/most top flight teams also play many other games throughout the season in competitions other than their own leagues, so a 44 game schedule should not be a burden in North America.

(Note, with a 28 team league in two 14 team conferences I would eliminate the two home/home v. the team that finished the previous season in the same standings position in the opposite conference games, bringing the schedule to 40 games in total.)

-------------------

If, someday, promotion and relegation would be added to the mix, I would relegate the last place team in each conference plus a wild card (second from the bottom team with the worse record).

For promotions, of the three teams going up, the one geographically farthest east would go into the eastern conference, the one geographically farthest west would go into the western conference and the one geographically in the middle would go into the conference that lost the 'wild card' team, where they would remain for their respective tenures in MLS.  Post-season playoffs would continue as they do today.

For the above schedule making purposes, the promoted teams would be assigned the bottom and second from the bottom standings slots based on their relative previous season standings positions in the second division league.

Thoughts?

Mike

dvferyance

Quote from: Bruce on August 20, 2019, 01:45:09 AM
I guess this would be a bad time to bring up MLS's bone-headed political messages policy, but I digress.

There's important news for Tuesday: St. Louis is being awarded the 28th MLS franchise. The team will begin play in 2022 and will have 22,000-seater stadium near Union Station.
Good for St Louis. After the way lying Kroenke treated them they deserve this.

jp the roadgeek

Quote from: Alps on August 21, 2019, 12:56:47 AM
I don't think we'll ever see promotion/relegation in American sports regardless. Our fanbase is just not built that way. We want to root for real times, not minor leagues.

It doesn't work in  MLB, NHL, and NBA because the minor league teams have affiliation contracts with each tiered team, plus in many cases, the major league club owns the affiliate.  Plus, with the disparity in capacities of different levels of the minor leagues and relative market size, it would make it totally ridiculous for the O's to be playing in a 40,000 seat stadium at the AAA level, while, let's say the Gwinnett Stripers are promoted.  Then you'd have 2 MLB teams in the same market which has nowhere near the capability of handling 2 clubs, with one playing in a minor league stadium. 
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

Bruce

Quote from: mgk920 on August 21, 2019, 02:03:55 PM
Remember that in Europe, many/most top flight teams also play many other games throughout the season in competitions other than their own leagues, so a 44 game schedule should not be a burden in North America.

Travel is short for European teams, which also have deeper rosters so they can swap out players to keep them fresh. MLS teams have a notoriously hard time in the CONCACAF Champions League because they have to balance the competition with early MLS matchdays while on a thin roster. Usually, an MLS team that makes a deep CL run will crash and burn out of that entire MLS season.

Quote
If, someday, promotion and relegation would be added to the mix, I would relegate the last place team in each conference plus a wild card (second from the bottom team with the worse record).

For promotions, of the three teams going up, the one geographically farthest east would go into the eastern conference, the one geographically farthest west would go into the western conference and the one geographically in the middle would go into the conference that lost the 'wild card' team, where they would remain for their respective tenures in MLS.  Post-season playoffs would continue as they do today.

For the above schedule making purposes, the promoted teams would be assigned the bottom and second from the bottom standings slots based on their relative previous season standings positions in the second division league.

Thoughts?

Mike

European leagues usually have a relegation playoff (one match, lose and you're out) to decide an odd number of teams to go down. I'd rather have that than some arbitrary line (that would also be unfair because of the unbalanced schedule).

mgk920

Quote from: Bruce on August 21, 2019, 11:33:02 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on August 21, 2019, 02:03:55 PM
If, someday, promotion and relegation would be added to the mix, I would relegate the last place team in each conference plus a wild card (second from the bottom team with the worse record).

For promotions, of the three teams going up, the one geographically farthest east would go into the eastern conference, the one geographically farthest west would go into the western conference and the one geographically in the middle would go into the conference that lost the 'wild card' team, where they would remain for their respective tenures in MLS.  Post-season playoffs would continue as they do today.

For the above schedule making purposes, the promoted teams would be assigned the bottom and second from the bottom standings slots based on their relative previous season standings positions in the second division league.

Thoughts?

European leagues usually have a relegation playoff (one match, lose and you're out) to decide an odd number of teams to go down. I'd rather have that than some arbitrary line (that would also be unfair because of the unbalanced schedule).

Have the two second from the bottom teams play off to decide the third relegation?

:hmmm:

I find the Bundesliga's way of deciding promotion/relegation of the third spot both up and down to be interesting - the third team from the bottom in the Bundesliga and the third team from the top in the 2 Bundesliga (2nd division) play off.  The winner is in the Bundesliga and the loser is in the 2 Bundesliga for the following season.

Mike

english si

Is the MLS political messages policy the same as the FIFA one? Yeah, that's terrible - in the implementation, rather than the blanket ban. Messi can pose with his national team holding a political message calling for continued Argentine warmongering over the Falkland Islands, but his then club boss can't wear a little button hole symbol of Catalan national pride, and the England national team (and Scotland, Wales, etc) had to go to court to have rememberance poppies on their kit on matches played on 11/11.

As for the league - I think 60 matches total is about the maximum English clubs do with league and good runs in both cups (and perhaps Europe too). Travel is, especially at lower levels, done by road. Pretty sure the teams don't charter planes to do Liverpool/Manchester - London journeys. It's only really the North East to the South/London that are done by plane. Journey lengths are thus not really that different. Obviously UEFA competitions mean flying.

As for best Spurs draw, surely the one before against City was better? Higher stakes, etc.

Bruce

MLS teams have a limited number of charters per year and have to fly commercially the rest of the time. This puts some markets at a huge disadvantage because their local airport may lack robust non-stop connections to cities with other MLS teams (though it goes both ways). It's become a major issue with the upcoming CBA negotiations, with some high-profile incidents where commercial flights with MLS teams have been significantly delayed or cancelled (leading to teams arriving at the stadium directly from the airport to go warmup and play...not ideal at all).

As for the political messages, MLS is doing the old "both sides" thing and banning any slogans that are too far out of what they consider to be mainstream. Given that soccer is primarily a leftist, urban spectator sport in the United States (especially in the demographics that make up supporters groups), this is angering a lot of people. And because of said coverage, some right-wing wackjobs have taken to harassing soccer supporters in Seattle while open-carrying and trying to start fights (with the intention of using said weapons).

Bruce

The Sounders had to reschedule their match in Denver because of a snowstorm in April (despite the team traveling to the still-open airport).

Now the rescheduled match is being played during an international break, with 10 Sounders players called up to international duty. Roster is skeletal, right in the middle of the big push for the playoffs.

https://www.sounderatheart.com/2019/9/3/20847786/sounders-will-be-extremely-short-handed-for-rescheduled-rapids-game

To make it worse, the playoffs table in the West is extremely tight. LAFC are running away with 1st and all the higher-seeds (who will host) are within 3 points of each other.


Stephane Dumas


Bruce

The United States has lost to Canada in a men's soccer game for the first time in 34 years.

Truly the darkest times for the USMNT, not helped by the incompetence of the head office.

thspfc

Quote from: Bruce on October 15, 2019, 09:35:52 PM
The United States has lost to Canada in a men's soccer game for the first time in 34 years.

Truly the darkest times for the USMNT, not helped by the incompetence of the head office.
At least we automatically qualify in 2026.

Bruce

Quote from: thspfc on October 18, 2019, 08:12:53 AM
Quote from: Bruce on October 15, 2019, 09:35:52 PM
The United States has lost to Canada in a men's soccer game for the first time in 34 years.

Truly the darkest times for the USMNT, not helped by the incompetence of the head office.
At least we automatically qualify in 2026.

With three hosts, that still hasn't been determined. I do imagine the USA will have an easier time getting an automatic bid than Canada and Mexico.

thspfc

Quote from: Bruce on October 18, 2019, 02:21:15 PM
Quote from: thspfc on October 18, 2019, 08:12:53 AM
Quote from: Bruce on October 15, 2019, 09:35:52 PM
The United States has lost to Canada in a men's soccer game for the first time in 34 years.

Truly the darkest times for the USMNT, not helped by the incompetence of the head office.
At least we automatically qualify in 2026.

With three hosts, that still hasn't been determined. I do imagine the USA will have an easier time getting an automatic bid than Canada and Mexico.
48 countries is already too much. The least FIFA can do is give an automatic bid to the hosts - there will still be 14 more at large bids than in 2018 and 22.

US 89

Quote from: Bruce on October 18, 2019, 02:21:15 PM
Quote from: thspfc on October 18, 2019, 08:12:53 AM
Quote from: Bruce on October 15, 2019, 09:35:52 PM
The United States has lost to Canada in a men's soccer game for the first time in 34 years.

Truly the darkest times for the USMNT, not helped by the incompetence of the head office.
At least we automatically qualify in 2026.

With three hosts, that still hasn't been determined. I do imagine the USA will have an easier time getting an automatic bid than Canada and Mexico.

Mexico deserves an automatic bid more than the US does, though...

Buck87

The new format for the MLS playoffs kicks off today, 14 teams, byes to the top seed in each conference, single elimination


Alps

Quote from: Buck87 on October 19, 2019, 12:24:12 PM
The new format for the MLS playoffs kicks off today, 14 teams, byes to the top seed in each conference, single elimination


MLS isn't a sport. It's recreational.

thspfc

Quote from: Alps on October 20, 2019, 01:15:45 AM
Quote from: Buck87 on October 19, 2019, 12:24:12 PM
The new format for the MLS playoffs kicks off today, 14 teams, byes to the top seed in each conference, single elimination


MLS isn't a sport. It's recreational.
tHe nBA Is MoRe aBoUT MoNEy tHan sPOrTs

Alps

Quote from: thspfc on October 20, 2019, 08:10:38 AM
Quote from: Alps on October 20, 2019, 01:15:45 AM
Quote from: Buck87 on October 19, 2019, 12:24:12 PM
The new format for the MLS playoffs kicks off today, 14 teams, byes to the top seed in each conference, single elimination


MLS isn't a sport. It's recreational.
tHe nBA Is MoRe aBoUT MoNEy tHan sPOrTs
Put it this way: soccer in the USA is not a sport. Anyone who's good enough to play internationally is not playing here.

Bruce

Quote from: Alps on October 20, 2019, 11:03:19 AM
Quote from: thspfc on October 20, 2019, 08:10:38 AM
Quote from: Alps on October 20, 2019, 01:15:45 AM
Quote from: Buck87 on October 19, 2019, 12:24:12 PM
The new format for the MLS playoffs kicks off today, 14 teams, byes to the top seed in each conference, single elimination


MLS isn't a sport. It's recreational.
tHe nBA Is MoRe aBoUT MoNEy tHan sPOrTs
Put it this way: soccer in the USA is not a sport. Anyone who's good enough to play internationally is not playing here.

For a lot of second-tier national teams (especially in the Western Hemisphere), MLS is a dependable source of good players. A week ago, England lost to the Czech Republic in UEFA qualifying, with the winning goal scored by a player from FC Dallas.

Buck87

Philadelphia got their first MLS playoff win in franchise history, in what was one of 3 different games in round 1 that went to extra time.

Minnesota was making their playoff appearance (in their 3rd season), but got knocked off at home by the LA Galaxy, setting up the first playoff edition of El Tráfico (LAG vs LAFC)

mgk920

I'll be much more excited about MLS when they become the 'first division' in a promotion and relegation federation.

Mike

Bruce

Quote from: mgk920 on October 21, 2019, 10:17:43 AM
I'll be much more excited about MLS when they become the 'first division' in a promotion and relegation federation.

Mike

Pro-rel would kill American soccer. Not stable enough for teams to survive relegation, especially for likely candidates in older MLS markets that are struggling. The second division has only been the sole second division league for little over four years now, and many of its teams are struggling to keep up with the requirements. Some of their smaller markets could be promoted on merits of performance but disqualified for their stadiums (often MiLB ballparks instead of proper stadiums), financial power of their owners, or being too close to other markets.

Bruce

El Trafico in the playoffs was amazing and was watched by 660,000. Possibly the last MLS match for Zlatan. No defending, just goals.



The winner of that match (not going to spoil it) will play my dear Seattle Sounders. I watched them defeat RSL to close out the storied career of goalkeeper Nick Rimando.



A perfect hat-trick (left, right, header) for Christian Pulisic to open his PL account.




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