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AASHTO Route Numbering Database Documents

Started by Rover_0, September 22, 2020, 01:56:10 PM

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kurumi

These visualvault.com URLs seem to be valid only for the person doing the search. The US 114 link was 2 minutes old and already 404'ed.
My first SF/horror short story collection is available: "Young Man, Open Your Winter Eye"


US 89

Another interesting one: in 2003, Arizona applied to decommission I-40 Business in Kingman. Their reasoning? Because it was also Historic US 66 and having two numbers was confusing.

https://na4.visualvault.com/app/AASHTO/Default/documentviewer?DhID=fc1fb464-56e6-ea11-a98a-ff9beffbfef8&hidemenu=true

Quote from: kurumi on September 24, 2020, 12:32:57 AM
These visualvault.com URLs seem to be valid only for the person doing the search. The US 114 link was 2 minutes old and already 404'ed.

If you've done a search yourself recently, all the links should work.

Rover_0

#52
Quote from: kurumi on September 24, 2020, 12:32:57 AM
These visualvault.com URLs seem to be valid only for the person doing the search. The US 114 link was 2 minutes old and already 404'ed.

Yea, unfortunately, I don't know exactly why. That's why I only linked the primary URL.

Anyways, I appreciate the thanks, and I had no clue what this would get as big as it did.

EDIT: Found out that the links work after searching yourself. Weird, but great to know.
Fixing erroneous shields, one at a time...

bugo

Wow, US 371 in Arkansas and Louisiana was originally going to be US 427. That number is out of whack, and AASHTO rightly gave it a more appropriate number. Was US 427 meant to be one of the 400-412-425 series highways?

Mapmikey

Quote from: bugo on September 24, 2020, 09:45:02 AM
Wow, US 371 in Arkansas and Louisiana was originally going to be US 427. That number is out of whack, and AASHTO rightly gave it a more appropriate number. Was US 427 meant to be one of the 400-412-425 series highways?

I found evidence the 412 number was made up by one of the states and was initially rejected because it had no relationship to US 12.

My guess on 427 was that it was just west of 425.

Scott5114

Quote from: Mapmikey on September 24, 2020, 12:44:05 PM
Quote from: bugo on September 24, 2020, 09:45:02 AM
Wow, US 371 in Arkansas and Louisiana was originally going to be US 427. That number is out of whack, and AASHTO rightly gave it a more appropriate number. Was US 427 meant to be one of the 400-412-425 series highways?

I found evidence the 412 number was made up by one of the states and was initially rejected because it had no relationship to US 12.

How did it get approved, then?

Likewise, I could find nothing on 400–Kansas proposing it to promote southern Kansas tourism, Missouri going along with it to be nice, and not once was the number discussed in official correspondence.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Mapmikey

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 24, 2020, 02:50:18 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on September 24, 2020, 12:44:05 PM
Quote from: bugo on September 24, 2020, 09:45:02 AM
Wow, US 371 in Arkansas and Louisiana was originally going to be US 427. That number is out of whack, and AASHTO rightly gave it a more appropriate number. Was US 427 meant to be one of the 400-412-425 series highways?

I found evidence the 412 number was made up by one of the states and was initially rejected because it had no relationship to US 12.

How did it get approved, then?

Likewise, I could find nothing on 400–Kansas proposing it to promote southern Kansas tourism, Missouri going along with it to be nice, and not once was the number discussed in official correspondence.

No other document explicitly labeled 412 had anything further.

A lot of the CORRESPONDENCE documents have no route number associated and I haven't taken the time yet to try to find other 1980s documents that show what happened.

But the 400-412-425-437 thing is debunked with the 412 situation alone.

Rover_0

#57
It's probably for another thread, but it is fascinating to think of how these routes may have changed over time.

For instance, using the US-24-to-Utah example, I'd say that its route gets smoothed out over time as I-70 and UT-24 are built through the San Rafael Swell and Wayne County, respectively.

My gut says that if the extension went through, you'd see 24 running along UT-20, (US-89), UT-62, and UT-24 to I-70, then overlapping US-6 (and I-70) to its current west end near Minturn.
Fixing erroneous shields, one at a time...

okc1

Tip: Leave the state field blank, if you can't find something. I found a US 219 document filed under NC.

Quite a fight from local businesses in East Aurora and Warsaw, NY when US 20 was moved from what is now 20A to its current alignment! Wanted "Scenic US 20" instead.
Steve Reynolds
Midwest City OK
Native of Southern Erie Co, NY

bugo

#59
And now it's broken.

EDIT: Now it's working again.

bugo

#60
The letterhead for the Oklahoma State Highway Commission in 1926 was really cool. It was replaced a couple of years later with a much more boring design.


US 89

Quote from: Rover_0 on September 24, 2020, 09:47:24 PM
For instance, using the US-24-to-Utah example, I'd say that it's route gets smoothed out over time as I-70 and UT-24 are built through the San Rafael Swell and Wayne County, respectively.

My gut says that if the extension went through, you'd see 24 running along UT-20, (US-89), UT-62, and UT-24 to I-70, then overlapping US-6 (and I-70) to its current west end near Minturn.

This is actually why SR 62 goes where it does, by the way. The road from US 89 near Kingston to Otter Creek Reservoir used to be part of SR 22, but it was changed to 62 in 1967 for route continuity - because UDOT was fully aware that people were using it as an east-west through route with SR 24 to the north.

Mapmikey

More fun found:

US 269 in Missouri turned down
US 301 extension to Everglades City turned down
US 319 extension to Panama City as a longer US 98 overlay denied
Long US 301 ALT from Effingham to Allendale via Walterboro was turned down
MSR 28 (NC/GA/SC) turned down with no number floated
Another US 55 proposal, from Wisconsin to Nogales!
Have to research to see if there was a typo but it appears Oklahoma tried to get US 477
US 378 was supposed to go to Myrtle Beach with US 501 rerouted to US 17 near the NC Line (denied)
As late as 1979 they were still trying to get rid of some of Tennessee's suffixed routes, specifically US 25W.  Both AASHO and Tenn floated proposals involving US 119 extending south via TN 63.  Don't know why changes weren't enacted.
Georgia tried to originally extend US 25 to Waycross instead of Brunswick

The transition from the 1925 US route list to the 1927 list was multistep:
There was a list of changes/additions in Jan 1926
Another list was in Sept 1926
Both lists are in the same document, search MINUTES 1926 and IL
Are there commercial maps that show the snapshot between Jan and Sept 1926?

The 10-12 swap for instance was in Jan but the 60-66 swap was in Sept.  Not all the changes in these interim lists had numbers but I found at least 1 number that was explicitly assigned (570) in the interim that was not on either the 1925 or final 1927 list.

The US 15-17 changes in Walterboro SC were done in 3 consecutive AASHO meetings:
1.  Move US 17, AASHO rejected keeping original 17 in as US 17 ALT (so what was the state route designation between Yemassee and Walterboro?  SC Officials make it seem steps 1 and 2 were combined)
2.  Extend US 15 to Pocotaligo
3.  Approve the much longer US 17 ALT which AASHO made contingent on rolling US 15 back to Walterboro

Pro Tip #1 - you can find the approval/rejection summaries more or less in order for the early days by searching MINUTES with no other parameters.  Whoever put this database together sometimes assigned it to the state where the meeting was held.  Quite a number of intrastate corridors were turned down (mostly without numbers floated)

Pro Tip #2 - the search return maxes out at 200 and some states have more than 200 items, so you have to search with each document type to see them all.

It will take a ton of researching to piece together every officially requested US route that ultimately was declined.  Some proposals are in CORRESPONDENCE or OTHER documents only.  I had thought the Droz site had nearly everything there was to have but it turns out this is nowhere near being true...historical documents are finally being made available.

There are solved mysteries about specific endpoints that Dale Sanderson can use.  For example:
US 191 was never moved to the US 20 freeway at Idaho Falls to I-15 in the 1970s
US 98 ended at the center of the Mississippi River Bridge

Mapmikey

Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2020, 10:36:53 AM
Quote from: Mapmikey on September 25, 2020, 09:34:26 AM
More fun found:

Another US 55 proposal, from Wisconsin to Nogales!

I have known about this for about 8 years now. I was viewing the 1957 Oklahoma official highway map, and noticed that what became US 56 was marked as US 55. Later, I found some PDF documents in the bowels of the ODOT website that said that the highway was going to be US 55 until somebody noticed that it runs E-W and it was changed to US 56. I posted about it on this forum when I found out about it in 2012, but it didn't get many replies. and was largely forgotten.


Searching a little more, there was really just 1 US 55 proposal that got recycled
1.  1954 - Wisconsin to Nogales
2.  1955 - Kansas requested US 155 to associate with proposed US 55 (I originally misread this one to have a KS-only US 55)
3.  1956 - this started as a rehash of the 1954 proposal then revised to be Springer to KC

Search route 55 with no states.  The Wisc 1954 one shows all the states' intended routes for US 55 to Arizona

usends

Quote from: Rover_0 on September 22, 2020, 01:56:10 PM
In talking with someone at AASHTO, they provided a link to look at past Interstate, U.S., and Bike Route applications.

Did your AASHTO contact say this digitization project is complete?  Or is it ongoing, with additional material still being added?
usends.com - US highway endpoints, photos, maps, and history

Rover_0

#65
Quote from: usends on September 25, 2020, 01:59:27 PM
Quote from: Rover_0 on September 22, 2020, 01:56:10 PM
In talking with someone at AASHTO, they provided a link to look at past Interstate, U.S., and Bike Route applications.

Did your AASHTO contact say this digitization project is complete?  Or is it ongoing, with additional material still being added?

They said that it was ongoing and that this list isn't complete.

For instance, I don't think there's anything on Kansas' proposal to extend US-270 north to I-70—at least when I first searched for it.

EDIT: It's incorrectly listed as an *Interstate 270* application.
Fixing erroneous shields, one at a time...

usends

Quote from: Rover_0 on September 25, 2020, 02:23:15 PM
Quote from: usends on September 25, 2020, 01:59:27 PM
Did your AASHTO contact say this digitization project is complete?  Or is it ongoing, with additional material still being added?

They said that it was ongoing and that this list isn't complete.

Yeah, that likely explains why we haven't been able to find some of the documentation that probably exists.  I wonder how long it will take for them to finish digitizing everything.  I'm sure it's a huge project...
usends.com - US highway endpoints, photos, maps, and history

bugo

You never know how long a website stays online, and this one seems a little sketchy, so I'm downloading all of the PDF files that I view. If the site goes down and stays down, I will still have those documents on my hard drive. I recommend that everybody saves the more interesting documents on your computer.

bugo

There are some really great maps in some of these PDF files. And the scans are very high in quality, and you can zoom way in and it doesn't get blurry.

bugo

#69
Here are a few things I have noticed so far, mostly in the Mid South region
:
-Arkansas and Louisiana really wanted a US route from Pine Bluff to Clayton, mostly along today's US 425. They sent in an application for this route to be US 265, and it was disapproved. They then sent in one for it to be US 65W, but AASHO quickly shut that one down.

-When US 167 was rerouted between Thornton and El Dorado to go through Hampton instead of Camden, the locals in Camden threw a temper tantrum and tried to get it reversed. Their excuse was that while it was 10 miles shorter, the new 167 route through Hampton was mostly gravel and had a *gasp* toll bridge over the Ouachita River. When they were laughed out of the building for that proposal, they tried to get the old US 167 route through Camden to be renumbered US 167W and the new route through Hampton to be renumbered US 167E. This was also the source of much laughter, and Camden threw another hissy fit. Having US 167 taken away from them caused massive amounts of butthurt to Camden's leaders. AASHO reminded Camden that they had just approved US 79 to run through their town (part of it even ran along old US 167) and that the town was still on the US route system, but Camden still whined about it. They claimed US 67 having E and W routes set a precedent, despite AASHO policy had changed since the E/W splits were approved. They finally gave up, I presume.

-The Broadway of America Association wanted what was then US 70 and AR 7 (today, it is AR 5 and AR 7) to be signed as US 67W. It was never taken seriously.

-The original plans for US 270 had it running through Mena and Norman, following today's US 270 from the Oklahoma line east to Acorn, then US 71 south to Mena, then AR 8 east to Glenwood, then US 70 east to Hot Springs. Why it would overlap with US 70 and end in Hot Springs is a mystery. It would have been better to have ended it in Glenwood. It's a moot point, because it was discovered that today's AR 8 in Polk and Montgomery Counties was not up to standards and was still unimproved in some areas. So they routed it north on 71 through Foran Gap and then east on what was then AR 6 to Hot Springs.

-The reason that US 63 ended in Memphis for years was because the original plan was to extend US 63 to Biloxi. They extended 63 to Memphis. but they declined the section from Memphis to Biloxi, because it would have apparently followed US 49 and/or US 51 through most of the state. These documents make it clear that US 63 had a segment in Tennessee and didn't just end at the state line. I assume it ended at the foot of the Memphis-Arkansas Bridge.

US 70 east of De Queen was in poor shape for years, so a Temporary US 70 was commissioned to follow US 71 from the US 70 split south to Lockesburg, then AR 24 (now US 371) east (south) to Nashville, then AR 27 to Kirby where it ended at US 70. This temporary routing was AASHO-approved, and was officially a US highway.

Much more to come...

bugo

#70
According to several of the documents in this archive, AASHO placed a moratorium on adding new US highways from approximately July, 1929 to July, 1930.

US 371 apparently did exist for a short time in 1929 and 1930, between the time that US 271 was rerouted to run from Poteau to Wister and eventually to Hugo instead of Poteau to Heavener and Mena and the time that US 270 was commissioned. I hope to find the exact dates buried somewhere deep in the bowels of this archive.

There was a proposal for a US highway between Springfield, MO to Ft Smith, AR that was truncated in both directions and the final proposal ran from Monett, MO to Rogers, AR. If it had been approved, it would have probably ended at US 62 in Gateway, just barely across the state line. This route is currently MO/AR 37. It was denied because it was only a little more than 30 miles long, so Missouri reverted to plan B, which was to apply for a US 269 that would have begun in either Rogers or Gateway and would have followed MO 37 north to US 60 north to MO 13 north to end at US 69 at Bethany.

CNGL-Leudimin

If that US 371 really happened, it would be the 4th number, and the only one not to start with 4, to have been used three times (the others are US 48, US 401 and US 411).
Supporter of the construction of several running gags, including I-366 with a speed limit of 85 mph (137 km/h) and the Hypotenuse.

Please note that I may mention "invalid" FM channels, i.e. ending in an even number or down to 87.5. These are valid in Europe.

iowahighways

#72
Quote from: Mapmikey on September 25, 2020, 09:34:26 AM
More fun found:

Another US 55 proposal, from Wisconsin to Nogales!

That would have replaced all of US 151 except the segment from Cedar Rapids to Anamosa, where it would have followed US 30 and IA 261 (now 1). It would have also replaced IA 149*, followed US 63 and 34 through Ottumwa, and replaced IA 60 (now 5) from Albia through Centerville into Missouri.

There was a 1955 submission filed under US 34 in Iowa to extend US 26 from Ogallala, NE, to Fort Recovery, OH. It would have followed NE/IA 2, IL 9, and IN 26.

Per the “other” documents filed under Iowa, requests were submitted in the late 1930s/early 1940s to add IA 9 and IA 92 to the US Highway system, but they were ultimately declined.

In 1957, the Knoxville Chamber of Commerce went directly to AASHO for an Alternate US 65 along IA 117, IA 163, IA 14, and IA 2 for US 65 traffic to bypass Des Moines. AASHO deferred them to the Iowa Highway Commission, who apparently took no action.

And Illinois wanted to extend US 218 from Keokuk to Cairo in 1956, replacing all of IL 127 and following a series of existing US and state highways through Carthage, Mount Sterling, and Jacksonville. AASHO turned it down because the need for the extension was not given in the application (which is filed under bike routes for some reason).

*That wouldn’t be the last time IA 149 would be considered as a US Highway. It’s not in the document library, but after US 151 was extended from Cedar Rapids to I-80 in 1985, civic leaders in Sigourney wanted US 151 to replace the rest of 149. The Iowa DOT turned down their request in 1986, citing the poor condition of 149 at the time.
The Iowa Highways Page: Now exclusively at www.iowahighways.org
The Iowa Highways Photo Gallery: www.flickr.com/photos/iowahighways/

NE2

Quote from: bugo on September 26, 2020, 10:52:53 AM
US 371
"Other (4)" OK 1929 page 40: December 7, 1929, the executive secretary authorized Oklahoma to designate former 271 south of Poteau as 371.
"Minutes_DC_1930__" page 4: May 26, 1930 meeting, 270 was approved to include Mena-Poteau. Thus 371 was implicitly killed.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

NE2

#74
1926: Virginia is filed under Utah.
1927: Virginia and Washington are filed under Utah.
1929: Virginia is filed under Utah.


As early as January 1927, Tennessee was signing mapping unapproved directional splits. AASHO approved them in 1929.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".



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