Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction

Started by Plutonic Panda, July 14, 2016, 08:04:30 PM

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Bobby5280

The remodel of the OK-9 and Lindsey Street exits on I-35 have been mentioned in other threads. The title of this thread contains "small projects" in it. There's nothing small about that I-35 project in Norman. It will be interesting to see how it all comes together when completed (two SPUIs in a row at the Main and Lindsey exits and then a partial cloverleaf at OK-9).

I would be more excited about the I-35/I-240 interchange if it was being rebuilt as a four level stack with all direct connect flyover ramps.

I was in Oklahoma City yesterday. Maintenance crews had eastbound I-44 shut down to one lane by Penn Square Mall. I can't wait til ODOT finally gets the I-44/I-235/Broadway Extension interchange finished. It's an adventure going from eastbound I-44 through the small cloverleaf to northbound Broadway Extension, especially at night. There's very little room to merge safely.

Parts of the interchange at I-44 & Hefner Parkway look like hell. That really goes for the flyover ramp westbound I-44 uses to curve over the interchange. The concrete barriers on the flyover bridge are crumbling badly in enough you can see exposed rebar in a few places.


Plutonic Panda

Yeah I probably should have put the I-35 project in its own thread because it likely will be a pretty large project, but I wanted to wait until the specifics came out.

MCRoads

QuoteParts of the interchange at I-44 & Hefner Parkway look like hell. That really goes for the flyover ramp westbound I-44 uses to curve over the interchange. The concrete barriers on the flyover bridge are crumbling badly in enough you can see exposed rebar in a few places.

Like this?

http://imgur.com/l2ZroN1

When was the last major repair on here?
I build roads on Minecraft. Like, really good roads.
Interstates traveled:
4/5/10*/11**/12**/15/25*/29*/35(E/W[TX])/40*/44**/49(LA**)/55*/64**/65/66*/70°/71*76(PA*,CO*)/78*°/80*/95°/99(PA**,NY**)

*/** indicates a terminus/termini being traveled
° Indicates a gap (I.E Breezwood, PA.)

more room plz

Bobby5280

The Hefner Parkway extension to NW 164th Street is finished. ODOT could easily extend the freeway up to Edmond Road (for now while not much is built alongside OK-74). Expanding it up to Danforth or Covell Road might consume at least a couple properties.

intelati49

Quote from: MCRoads on April 15, 2017, 05:49:05 PM
No one has mentioned the Lindsy St. and Hwy 9 in Norman. That is one of the most complicated interchange in Oklahoma City (besides the HORRID Dallas Junction, which really should be redone). :hmmm: Also, the outdated I 240 and I 35 is being reconstructed.

http://www.odot.org/newsmedia/press/2015/I35_I240_plan_map.jpg

On a side note, I love the formating they have on the map. Looks like the 1950s plansheets, but made in 2015.

Plutonic Panda

ODOT has selected the alternative for the Douglas BLVD./I-40 interchange.

They went with alt. 1 which is the SPUI. I don't have anything against SPUI's, but how is their argument that it is more efficient than a traditional diamond interchange with a flyover for the heavy traffic movement? I don't get that. I think they cheaper out. Oh well.

Scott5114

A SPUI has only one stoplight instead of two, so you're halving the number of stoplights the heavy movement is going through without an additional bridge. Plus, EB->SB movements don't have any signals at all.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Plutonic Panda

Yeah but the flyover would have removed a stop for the most heavily trafficked movement which will have a stop with the SPUI. I can see the advantages of SPUIs, but I just think in this case a flyover would work much better for this scenario.

Bobby5280

Quote from: Plutonic PandaThey went with alt. 1 which is the SPUI. I don't have anything against SPUI's, but how is their argument that it is more efficient than a traditional diamond interchange with a flyover for the heavy traffic movement? I don't get that. I think they cheaper out. Oh well.

The flyover ramp for NB Douglas to WB I-40 would be the only efficient movement in that interchange. Everything else would be very inefficient. Thru traffic driving NB & SB on Douglas would be mired in three traffic lights in short succession, two in the interchange itself and another very close at the Douglas and SE 29th intersection. To me that would be a downgrade from the existing cloverleaf interchange (which has no traffic lights), even with the serious weaving and merging issues present in the existing interchange. It makes me think of the clusterf*** of Gore Blvd crossing I-44 in Lawton. I really hate having to drive through there. The city is experimenting with timing of the 3 signals along Gore Blvd. Nothing is working. I wish ODOT could replace that interchange with a SPUI. But ODOT isn't going to spend $20+ million on an interchange in Lawton of all places.

Let's also not forget the Alternative 2 flyover ramp for NB Douglas to WB I-40 would not be funded and built in that diamond interchange construction.

The flyover ramp would have been put off to add later, possibly many years later. Look how long it is taking for the I-235/I-44 interchange to get built. With the current state of Oklahoma's finances I could see them building that diamond interchange and then simply cancelling the flyover ramp to save money.

Plutonic Panda

I wouldn't be surprised if they did cancel that flyover if alt. 2 was chosen.

Scott5114

That's not really a SPUI, though. It functions much like one, but it's not one. And of course that has the safety issues of left entrance/exit ramps, which I would imagine are more severe than any inconvenience bicyclists or pedestrians may encounter from a traditional SPUI.

Also, I doubt there's many pedestrians along Douglas Boulevard. The west side of Douglas is Tinker Air Force Base, which of course by design does not present pedestrian-interactive frontage (unless you're the sort of person who likes walking alongside razor-wire fences, Jersey barriers, and/or caltrops). The very reason the NB→WB movement is so heavy at this interchange is traffic leaving from Tinker's Lancer Gate, which is the primary access to the east side of the base (where the massive Oklahoma City Air Logistics Complex is located). The east side of Douglas is vacant space dotted with businesses like self-storage units, aviation support firms, and muffler shops. I guess people might want to walk to Christie's Toy Box (don't Google it at work).

But since when have pedestrian facility advocates ever had to prove that improving ped access actually makes sense?
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Scott5114

Quote from: FHWA Missouri field office
4.4 Are all the exits and entrances on the right side of the freeway mainline?

It is highly preferable to use right-hand entrance and exit ramps in the design of new interchanges. Entrance and exit ramps on the left-side of the freeway are contrary to driver expectation and studies indicate that crashes may be reduced as much as 25-70 percent with the use of right-off, right-on ramps as compared to left hand ramps. Traffic speeds are typically faster in the left-most lanes of the freeway, and therefore speed differentials between entering and exiting traffic and through traffic is usually greater with left-hand ramps.

If possible, existing left hand entrance/exit ramps should be replaced with right hand ramps when reconstructing an interchange. If this is impracticable because of unacceptable economic, environmental or social impacts then such reasons should be well documented and justified. Such justification should include a crash data analysis showing that the existing left hand ramp is not a substantial safety hazard.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

MCRoads

Ok, you can have both a compact SPUI and no left entrances/exits with the amazing... OFFSET SPUI!!!

http://imgur.com/ttqzlBS

Also, for those saying it requires Moore right of way, there are some in LA that are SUPER compact, not to mension the intersection is by, like you said, a military base, were they could probably be convinced that giving 5 acres of land to the city is in there best interests.
I build roads on Minecraft. Like, really good roads.
Interstates traveled:
4/5/10*/11**/12**/15/25*/29*/35(E/W[TX])/40*/44**/49(LA**)/55*/64**/65/66*/70°/71*76(PA*,CO*)/78*°/80*/95°/99(PA**,NY**)

*/** indicates a terminus/termini being traveled
° Indicates a gap (I.E Breezwood, PA.)

more room plz

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: MCRoads on April 24, 2017, 03:02:03 PM
Ok, you can have both a compact SPUI and no left entrances/exits with the amazing... OFFSET SPUI!!!

http://imgur.com/ttqzlBS

Also, for those saying it requires Moore right of way, there are some in LA that are SUPER compact, not to mension the intersection is by, like you said, a military base, were they could probably be convinced that giving 5 acres of land to the city is in there best interests.
Thats way too forward thinking for ODOT. But it beautiful though.

MCRoads

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 24, 2017, 04:15:11 PM
Quote from: MCRoads on April 24, 2017, 03:02:03 PM
Ok, you can have both a compact SPUI and no left entrances/exits with the amazing... OFFSET SPUI!!!

http://imgur.com/ttqzlBS

Also, for those saying it requires Moore right of way, there are some in LA that are SUPER compact, not to mension the intersection is by, like you said, a military base, were they could probably be convinced that giving 5 acres of land to the city is in there best interests.
Thats way too forward thinking for ODOT. But it beautiful though.

Well, forward thinking is a ddi. And it's comming(in 4 years).
Also, do you know of an OSSPUI in LA? I couldn't find one... mabey they demolished it...
I build roads on Minecraft. Like, really good roads.
Interstates traveled:
4/5/10*/11**/12**/15/25*/29*/35(E/W[TX])/40*/44**/49(LA**)/55*/64**/65/66*/70°/71*76(PA*,CO*)/78*°/80*/95°/99(PA**,NY**)

*/** indicates a terminus/termini being traveled
° Indicates a gap (I.E Breezwood, PA.)

more room plz

Plutonic Panda

http://m.newsok.com/article/5546581

This article explains this better. I for one thought the study had already been underway but it hasn't been started and will last two years. Bummed. Thought maybe we'd see some proposals.

As for the commment in this article that the freeway can't be widened, I'm calling bullshit. If I-35 really can't be widened more than 6 lanes, enjoy the traffic flow while it lasts because if OKC becomes a boomtown like Austin and they aren't even able to widen it more than six lanes, well, you already see in Austin how that's worked out.

I think it's just a money issue which they should just come out and say if that's the case.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: MCRoads on April 24, 2017, 05:56:52 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 24, 2017, 04:15:11 PM
Quote from: MCRoads on April 24, 2017, 03:02:03 PM
Ok, you can have both a compact SPUI and no left entrances/exits with the amazing... OFFSET SPUI!!!

http://imgur.com/ttqzlBS

Also, for those saying it requires Moore right of way, there are some in LA that are SUPER compact, not to mension the intersection is by, like you said, a military base, were they could probably be convinced that giving 5 acres of land to the city is in there best interests.
Thats way too forward thinking for ODOT. But it beautiful though.

Well, forward thinking is a ddi. And it's comming(in 4 years).
Also, do you know of an OSSPUI in LA? I couldn't find one... mabey they demolished it...
I'm referring to the way this particular SPUI was designed.

An OSSPUI? I'm not. In fact I can't even think of an SPUI in Los Angles or at least the basin. I think there are a few close by but I can't remember where.

MCRoads

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 25, 2017, 01:59:42 AM
Quote from: MCRoads on April 24, 2017, 05:56:52 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 24, 2017, 04:15:11 PM
Quote from: MCRoads on April 24, 2017, 03:02:03 PM
Ok, you can have both a compact SPUI and no left entrances/exits with the amazing... OFFSET SPUI!!!

http://imgur.com/ttqzlBS

Also, for those saying it requires Moore right of way, there are some in LA that are SUPER compact, not to mension the intersection is by, like you said, a military base, were they could probably be convinced that giving 5 acres of land to the city is in there best interests.
Thats way too forward thinking for ODOT. But it beautiful though.

Well, forward thinking is a ddi. And it's comming(in 4 years).
Also, do you know of an OSSPUI in LA? I couldn't find one... mabey they demolished it...
I'm referring to the way this particular SPUI was designed.

An OSSPUI? I'm not. In fact I can't even think of an SPUI in Los Angles or at least the basin. I think there are a few close by but I can't remember where.

Sorry, OffSet SPUI (OSSPI).

And there are a few SPUIs in the LA aria, N Archebald Ave and I 10 has one, there are a couple more heading east.
I build roads on Minecraft. Like, really good roads.
Interstates traveled:
4/5/10*/11**/12**/15/25*/29*/35(E/W[TX])/40*/44**/49(LA**)/55*/64**/65/66*/70°/71*76(PA*,CO*)/78*°/80*/95°/99(PA**,NY**)

*/** indicates a terminus/termini being traveled
° Indicates a gap (I.E Breezwood, PA.)

more room plz

Bobby5280

Quote from: Plutonic PandaAs for the commment in this article that the freeway can't be widened, I'm calling bullshit. If I-35 really can't be widened more than 6 lanes, enjoy the traffic flow while it lasts because if OKC becomes a boomtown like Austin and they aren't even able to widen it more than six lanes, well, you already see in Austin how that's worked out.

Adding a 4th lane in both directions of I-35 thru Moore is justifiable. But doing so will be a really tight squeeze in some places. Frontage roads would probably have to be shifted a bit, especially for exit and entrance ramps to be designed up to current Interstate standards. Certain bridges would have to be replaced to make room for new lanes, but some of those bridges really need to be replaced anyway. The Indian Hills Road bridge is pretty lousy and its existing support columns stand in the way of any new lane additions. According to the article that bridge is supposed to be replaced in 2022. The same situation exists for the SW 4th Street and NW 12th Street bridges over I-35.

It's also worth mentioning I-35 in OKC from I-240 up to I-40 is mostly just 3 lanes in each direction. At least most of the bridges over I-35 in Oklahoma City's South side provide room to add an additional lane.

Plutonic Panda

I agree and even if weren't justifiable or ODOT doesn't think so, they still have room to do it. It would be a tight fit in some areas buts doable. I think for them, cost is the main factor. They just need to say so instead of spreading misinformation.

Scott5114

At the same time, I think OkDOT would be justified in saying that addressing the ramp geometry is more important at this time than widening.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Plutonic Panda

I'm not going to argue that a widening is needed because I can see arguments against it. I can envision the money that would be spent widening this section of I-35 would be much more useful going to projects like Belle Isle Bridge replacement, I-44/I-40 interchange replacement, or expediting the other interchange projects currently going on.

It just upsets me to see OKDOT tell people there isn't enough room to widen the freeway which is bullshit and reeks of small town mentality. It's nothing major just annoying I guess.

Scott5114

I mentioned upthread that the portion of I-35 between Indian Hills Road and Main St was widened around 2010 or so, so it's been 7 years since then. I don't think the interstate has experienced enough traffic growth in 7 years to require widening to 4 lanes.

While it would be wrong to say there is no room in general to widen the freeway, there are a few places where the ROW is narrow enough that it would be difficult (like between Main and Robinson). Also, I would imagine that along much of the corridor it would require some eminent domain to secure more ROW, even if actual structures would not need to be demolished.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

MCRoads

THIS IS A POST ABOUT SOME MICRO PROJECTS,

does anyone Know for sure why they have yellow bollards on the center line at the Indian Hills Rd. RR crossing? I'm guessing it is to stop people being idiots, and trying to beat the train.

Also, what are they doing at the Highland East crosswalk on 4th street?

Also Also, ODOT, why have you proposed FIVE or SIX interchange reworks, when we cant even afford paper for our schools?

Side note, paper is an EXPORT of Oklahoma, which at first seems weird, then it's sad, because we cannot afford it.
I build roads on Minecraft. Like, really good roads.
Interstates traveled:
4/5/10*/11**/12**/15/25*/29*/35(E/W[TX])/40*/44**/49(LA**)/55*/64**/65/66*/70°/71*76(PA*,CO*)/78*°/80*/95°/99(PA**,NY**)

*/** indicates a terminus/termini being traveled
° Indicates a gap (I.E Breezwood, PA.)

more room plz

Bobby5280

Quote from: MCRoadsAlso Also, ODOT, why have you proposed FIVE or SIX interchange reworks, when we cant even afford paper for our schools?

Gutting public school funding is part of the GOP Super-Majority's war on what they see as "socialism." At least that's the rationale being fed to sheeple gullible enough to believe it. The real game is shifting tax dollars for education into private/charter schools where there are less regulations on curriculum, quality standards and tuition costs. It will be a real money-making bonanza for the good ole boy network. And the system will work as a great filter to separate the have's from the have nots. Some kid's "voucher" will be good enough to pay the tuition at a shady start-up charter school, but would only work as a 20% off coupon for a private school worth a damn.

One possible consequence of Oklahoma's public education system of being de-funded: women of child-bearing age who can leave the state for opportunities elsewhere are going to do so. Oklahoma will turn into a terrible place for any middle class person to raise a family. Public schools are vital for middle class and lower income families. This state's population could transform into an old fart sausage fest if we keep heading in the same direction for too much longer.

Quote from: MCRoadsSide note, paper is an EXPORT of Oklahoma, which at first seems weird, then it's sad, because we cannot afford it.

We have a pretty large Republic Paperboard factory west of Lawton out by the Goodyear plant and Bar-S.



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