MoDOT Should designate an I-244 around Springfield, Missouri

Started by ColossalBlocks, April 03, 2017, 09:45:17 AM

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ColossalBlocks

MoDOT should pitch SR 360, and designate an I-244 along SR 360, US 60, US 65 to loop around the city. This would probably make a good bypass route for Springfield, Missouri (or turn I-44 into a bypass route).
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US Highways: 36, 49, 61, 412.

Interstates: 22, 24, 44, 55, 57, 59, 72, 74 (West).


intelati49

Seriously though, why... it already serves as a bypass with no signage. And I don't think this belongs in the fictional board

Rothman

Meh, to suggest a new designation definitely puts this in fictional territory.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Brandon

Quote from: Rothman on April 03, 2017, 12:18:29 PM
Meh, to suggest a new designation definitely puts this in fictional territory.

This was in the fictional area.  A mod moved it for some reason.
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The Ghostbuster

There once was an Interstate 244 in Saint Louis, but I'm sure you all knew that. As for whether there should be a 244 around Springfield, what's wrong with just keeping the corridor MO 360/US 60/US 65?

mvak36

Quote from: Brandon on April 03, 2017, 12:58:52 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 03, 2017, 12:18:29 PM
Meh, to suggest a new designation definitely puts this in fictional territory.

This was in the fictional area.  A mod moved it for some reason.

There was talk a couple of years ago about designating it as I-244. I can't find the local article, but there is a page on Interstate-Guide. https://www.interstate-guide.com/i-244_mo.html

Edit: Also, back in 2014, a project to upgrade the US60, US65, and MO360 loop to Interstate standards was listed as one of the projects that MODOT would have done if Amendment 7 (0.75% sales tax, IIRC) had passed. I don't think that list is online anymore, but I still have the PDF if anyone wants it.
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Bobby5280

The current route designations are probably fine as is. US-60 is a significant East-West route across Missouri. Having a short Interstate designation trump it could lead to some driver confusion. If I was going to assign an Interstate designation to any additional road in the Springfield area it would be to US-65 from I-44 down to Branson, if that route can ever get fully upgraded to Interstate standards. There's still some drive ways and at grade intersections to eliminate.

Long term there is still some desire to upgrade US-60 between Springfield and Sikeston to freeway or Interstate standards. The corridor is all 4-laned now, nearly all divided with some freeway exits and frontage roads in various places. If I recall correctly this corridor was along a proposed extension of I-66 from Kentucky, but I think that whole effort is pretty much dead now. If the corridor is fully upgraded to Interstate quality some time in the distant future I don't know what number designation it would carry. If Missouri has to upgrade it mostly on its own dime piece by piece it will probably stay designated as US-60.

Alex

There was an effort in 2013 to create I-244 at Springfield. Here's the previous thread on it.

The Ghostbuster

I doubt an Interstate 244 (or any other number) will be designated in the Springfield area. This will probably go the same way as those folks in Green Bay who wanted the US 41 corridor between Milwaukee and Green Bay designated as an extension of Interstate 55 (instead of Interstate 41).

Bobby5280

Extending the I-55 designation North to Green Bay is a pretty extreme thing. It's quite a bit different than just assigning a 3 digit Interstate designation to a freeway around one city. If I-55 was going to be extended North to Green Bay I'd have it eat up I-43. The I-41 thing there doesn't make much sense, especially the overlap with I-94 down to the Illinois border.

Scott5114

It would have a pretty bad TOTSO at the southeast corner.
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NE2

pre-1945 Florida route log

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US71

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sparker

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 03, 2017, 03:21:37 PM
There once was an Interstate 244 in Saint Louis, but I'm sure you all knew that. As for whether there should be a 244 around Springfield, what's wrong with just keeping the corridor MO 360/US 60/US 65?
Quote from: US71 on April 05, 2017, 11:35:32 AM
I'd much rather see a 3d odd I-44

There's no real reason to designate an Interstate loop over these existing routes; it would have little navigational purpose, and even less developmental rationale (the area's pretty much fully developed as it is; a 3di won't change matters much).  If any of these routes ever get Interstate designations, it'll likely be due to new trunk or spur routes along US 60, US 65, or both -- well into the future if at all!

Scott5114

Quote from: NE2 on April 05, 2017, 09:39:14 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 05, 2017, 08:14:26 AM
It would have a pretty bad TOTSO at the southeast corner.
What's bad about a flyover?

Not so much the geometry of the interchange itself, but the fact that the route designation has to make such a sharp turn to jump onto another route.

That interchange was once a lot worse, and was upgraded only 4 years or so ago. Unfortunately, that probably precludes redoing it again to make a theoretical I-244 the through route.

My preferred option would be to make US-65 to Branson an I-144 and then make US-60/Route 360 an I-644.
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US71

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 05, 2017, 05:30:23 PM
Quote from: NE2 on April 05, 2017, 09:39:14 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 05, 2017, 08:14:26 AM
It would have a pretty bad TOTSO at the southeast corner.
What's bad about a flyover?

Not so much the geometry of the interchange itself, but the fact that the route designation has to make such a sharp turn to jump onto another route.

That interchange was once a lot worse, and was upgraded only 4 years or so ago. Unfortunately, that probably precludes redoing it again to make a theoretical I-244 the through route.

My preferred option would be to make US-65 to Branson an I-144 and then make US-60/Route 360 an I-644.

Still numerous at-grades on 65
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Bobby5280

An I-144 designation would currently go 13 miles South of the US-60/US-65 interchange, ending at the exit for Route EE. It's another 14 miles to the US-160 exit, where US-65 turns into a freeway again going through Branson. On US-65 between route EE there are 14 at grade street intersections or crossings, 7 driveways connecting to the Northbound lanes and 8 driveways connecting to the Southbound lanes. Some of those intersections could be replaced with exits. Most of the driveways could be cut off by new frontage road segments.

In Branson just South of the Lake Taneycomo Bridge at grade intersections and driveways come back into the picture even though there is a SPUI at Industrial Park Drive.

US-65 could be upgraded to Interstate quality without too many problems down to the Arkansas border if development in Branson grew enough to justify it.

US71

Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 05, 2017, 07:16:41 PM
An I-144 designation would currently go 13 miles South of the US-60/US-65 interchange, ending at the exit for Route EE. It's another 14 miles to the US-160 exit, where US-65 turns into a freeway again going through Branson. On US-65 between route EE there are 14 at grade street intersections or crossings, 7 driveways connecting to the Northbound lanes and 8 driveways connecting to the Southbound lanes. Some of those intersections could be replaced with exits. Most of the driveways could be cut off by new frontage road segments.

In Branson just South of the Lake Taneycomo Bridge at grade intersections and driveways come back into the picture even though there is a SPUI at Industrial Park Drive.

US-65 could be upgraded to Interstate quality without too many problems down to the Arkansas border if development in Branson grew enough to justify it.

But they can't afford to finish I-49, how would they justify Branson?
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NE2

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 05, 2017, 05:30:23 PM
That interchange was once a lot worse, and was upgraded only 4 years or so ago. Unfortunately, that probably precludes redoing it again to make a theoretical I-244 the through route.
Like they did when I-70 was rerouted over the Mississippi. Or at both ends of the I-49 overlap with I-44.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

US71

Quote from: NE2 on April 05, 2017, 08:50:52 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 05, 2017, 05:30:23 PM
That interchange was once a lot worse, and was upgraded only 4 years or so ago. Unfortunately, that probably precludes redoing it again to make a theoretical I-244 the through route.
Like they did when I-70 was rerouted over the Mississippi. Or at both ends of the I-49 overlap with I-44.

49//44 needs rebuilding at Diamond, IF MoDOT ever has the money.
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mvak36

Quote from: US71 on April 06, 2017, 08:41:42 AM
Quote from: NE2 on April 05, 2017, 08:50:52 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 05, 2017, 05:30:23 PM
That interchange was once a lot worse, and was upgraded only 4 years or so ago. Unfortunately, that probably precludes redoing it again to make a theoretical I-244 the through route.
Like they did when I-70 was rerouted over the Mississippi. Or at both ends of the I-49 overlap with I-44.

49//44 needs rebuilding at Diamond, IF MoDOT ever has the money.

Isn't the plan to have 49 eventually follow the MO-249/BL49 (if they ever get the money)?
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intelati49

Quote from: mvak36 on April 06, 2017, 11:29:38 AM
Quote from: US71 on April 06, 2017, 08:41:42 AM
Quote from: NE2 on April 05, 2017, 08:50:52 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 05, 2017, 05:30:23 PM
That interchange was once a lot worse, and was upgraded only 4 years or so ago. Unfortunately, that probably precludes redoing it again to make a theoretical I-244 the through route.
Like they did when I-70 was rerouted over the Mississippi. Or at both ends of the I-49 overlap with I-44.

49//44 needs rebuilding at Diamond, IF MoDOT ever has the money.

Isn't the plan to have 49 eventually follow the MO-249/BL49 (if they ever get the money)?

That's what I have heard. I don't see it though. Either new mainline construction or a major interchange is needed there.

sparker

Quote from: intelati49 on April 06, 2017, 02:26:22 PM
Quote from: mvak36 on April 06, 2017, 11:29:38 AM
Quote from: US71 on April 06, 2017, 08:41:42 AM
Quote from: NE2 on April 05, 2017, 08:50:52 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 05, 2017, 05:30:23 PM
That interchange was once a lot worse, and was upgraded only 4 years or so ago. Unfortunately, that probably precludes redoing it again to make a theoretical I-244 the through route.
Like they did when I-70 was rerouted over the Mississippi. Or at both ends of the I-49 overlap with I-44.

49//44 needs rebuilding at Diamond, IF MoDOT ever has the money.

Isn't the plan to have 49 eventually follow the MO-249/BL49 (if they ever get the money)?

That's what I have heard. I don't see it though. Either new mainline construction or a major interchange is needed there.

Since the north 49/BL49 interchange is currently a simple diamond, it would indeed require a major rebuild to turn the through lanes of I-49 at that point.  It might be more effective to simply place a EB>NB flyover at the current east I-44/49 interchange, accompanied by improvement of the SB>WB directional ramp as well rather than engage in a full reroute of I-49 in the short term.  If future AADT counts eventually point toward upgrading of MO 249 into a I-249 route, then an interchange upgrade at the current diamond could be done then without having to completely revamp the through lanes of I-49. 

Bobby5280

The main problem is I-49 Exit 53 in Carthage. It existing diamond interchange needs to be converted at least to a cloverleaf interchange for freeway to freeway operation. The problem is there is a bunch of development right there, including a sewage treatment plant on the NW corner. A more creative design would be needed to connect both freeways.

Quote from: US71But they can't afford to finish I-49, how would they justify Branson?

I guess it all depends on how much traffic goes to Branson. Frankly, I think it's damned pathetic of Missouri to have this much trouble finishing their portion of the Belle Vista bypass. They only have about 4.5 of road to build. The Arkansas portion is about 3 times as long and most of difficult stuff is already built on that one.

Scott5114

They're playing tag on it. Missouri had the money to build it during the Amendment 3 days, but they deferred it because Arkansas wasn't ready and they didn't want to build a road that dead-ended at the state line. Now Arkansas has the money and Missouri doesn't.
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