Traffic signal

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

Thanks. What was wrong with them?

[jakeroot]

Thanks. What was wrong with them?

They had quotation marks in the links. Not sure how you did that.

Thanks kphoger.

[Ian]

Finally, a lot of Arizona intersections seem to have both bimodal and 5 stack turn signals mixed in the same intersection. Wonder why that is/was

There's a similar situation here at the intersection of US 2/US 2A/ME 43 (Center and Main Streets) in downtown Old Town, Maine, except the position of the inline-4 bimodal and inline-5 heads are switched. In this case, the inline-5 on the far left side of the intersection was here first, and the inline-4 bimodal was added later on. You can see the original set-up if you look at the September 2007 GSV.

[kphoger]

Thanks. What was wrong with them?

They had quotation marks in the links. Not sure how you did that.

Thanks kphoger.

I see they've now been fixed in the actual post by a mod, so I can't look back specifically, but I recall they had more than just quotation marks.  There was some sort of tag at the beginning too that I had to delete.  Something like https=" at the beginning, can't quite remember exactly.

[hotdogPi]

Thanks. What was wrong with them?

They had quotation marks in the links. Not sure how you did that.

Thanks kphoger.

I see they've now been fixed in the actual post by a mod, so I can't look back specifically, but I recall they had more than just quotation marks.  There was some sort of tag at the beginning too that I had to delete.  Something like https=" at the beginning, can't quite remember exactly.

I remember it being <br>.

[US 89]

I’m fairly sure the original text was this, but I could be wrong:

Code Select Expand

[url=https://http://maps.app.goo.gl/AxtEjfD7iQ1aMv1n9”]This[/url]

[roadman65]

I saw a Flashing Right Turn Arrow in San Antonio at the SA Airport.  Odd that a right turn needs a yellow flasher, but its north of I-410 on Airport Blvd. 

BTW, I thought I posted this before but I can't find it in my post history, so I guess I did not or I forgot to hit enter or some other issue.

[jakeroot]

I saw a Flashing Right Turn Arrow in San Antonio at the SA Airport.  Odd that a right turn needs a yellow flasher, but its north of I-410 on Airport Blvd. 

BTW, I thought I posted this before but I can't find it in my post history, so I guess I did not or I forgot to hit enter or some other issue.

Very common now, at least in Washington.

They are particularly useful when the city wants to draw attention to a particularly busy crossing, or when using a red-arrow phase during the "walk" phase, but a flashing yellow during the flashing "don't walk" phase. The key is really "flexibility".

[SignBridge]

New York City uses right-turn FYA's to protect crosswalks and bike lanes at some locations.

[mrsman]

Two interesting traffic signal issues out of Los Angeles:

New traffic signal at La Brea/Rosewood.  With this signal there is now a signal at every intersection along La Brea between Fountain and Olympic, a distance of 2.5 miles.  But the interesting thing is the phasing.  The signal was designed to allow Rosewood Ave to become a bicycle route.  All car traffic on Rosewood must turn right on La Brea.  It seems that rights are permitted on red, even during the pedestrian phase.  Pedestrians and bikes may cross La Brea.  There are separate phases for La Brea traffic (major phase), bikes and peds crossing La Brea along Rosewood, and traffic from Rosewood turning right on La Brea.

More info:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La5i7G_OOM0

https://beverlypress.com/2019/05/l-a-puts-pedal-to-the-metal-on-la-brea/

One criticism is that they designed the intersection to force separate phases for the right turns and the bikes/peds.  This obviously will increase delay along La Brea even further.  A far better design to accommodate bikes, while discouraging through traffic by forcing right turns can be found in Tucson, AZ:

https://nacto.org/case-study/toucan-bicycle-signal-at-third-street-and-country-club-road-tucson-az/

The second issue is not that new, but it has to do with warrants.  Normally, we know that it is usually difficult to get a new signal installed because of expense and the lack of meeting the technical warrants, even when there is enough traffic at issue to seem warranted.  At the same time, who hasn't gotten stopped at red signals at intersections where the side street has so little traffic that it doesn't seem warranted.  I have to hand it to the L.A. Dept. of Transportation, who I have criticized before about certain signals not being warranted (Arden/Rosewood) who have been on top of the ball at another intersection.

Wilshire/Ogden sits 2 blocks east of Fairfax, right near the LA County Museum of Art.   For many years, Ogden connected Wilshire to 6th Street and connected into the Park La Brea private housing development (gated community).  There was a signal at Wilshire/Ogden and enough side street traffic to justify it.  There's been a lot of construction in the area for the last few years.  Museum expansion caused the block between 6th and Wilshire to be closed to traffic.  For a time, they were forcing all traffic coming on Ogden to turn right and prohibit pedestrian crossing Wilshire.  At this time, they removed the signal completely.

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0628217,-118.3594284,3a,75y,195.54h,79.3t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sLYOztPJE3Guws8t6SbAT2A!2e0!5s20090501T000000!7i13312!8i6656

With the street work done, in later years, they reinstalled the traffic signal.  More construction is happening there as there is further museum expansion as well as work on the Wilshire/Fairfax subway station construction.

So hand it to LADOT for turning off a signal when it wasn't warranted.

[Amtrakprod]

Two interesting traffic signal issues out of Los Angeles:

The new traffic signal at La Brea/Rosewood.  With this signal, there is now a signal at every intersection along La Brea between Fountain and Olympic, a distance of 2.5 miles.  But the interesting thing is phasing.  The signal was designed to allow Rosewood Ave to become a bicycle route.  All car traffic on Rosewood must turn right on La Brea.  It seems that rights are permitted on red, even during the pedestrian phase.  Pedestrians and bikes may cross La Brea.  There are separate phases for La Brea traffic (major phase), bikes and peds crossing La Brea along Rosewood, and traffic from Rosewood turning right on La Brea.

More info:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La5i7G_OOM0

https://beverlypress.com/2019/05/l-a-puts-pedal-to-the-metal-on-la-brea/

One criticism is that they designed the intersection to force separate phases for the right turns and the bikes/peds.  This obviously will increase delay along La Brea even further.  A far better design to accommodate bikes, while discouraging through traffic by forcing right turns can be found in Tucson, AZ:

https://nacto.org/case-study/toucan-bicycle-signal-at-third-street-and-country-club-road-tucson-az/

The second issue is not that new, but it has to do with warrants.  Normally, we know that it is usually difficult to get a new signal installed because of expense and the lack of meeting the technical warrants, even when there is enough traffic at issue to seem warranted.  At the same time, who hasn't gotten stopped at red signals at intersections where the side street has so little traffic that it doesn't seem warranted.  I have to hand it to the L.A. Dept. of Transportation, who I have criticized before about certain signals not being warranted (Arden/Rosewood) who have been on top of the ball at another intersection.

Wilshire/Ogden sits 2 blocks east of Fairfax, right near the LA County Museum of Art.   For many years, Ogden connected Wilshire to 6th Street and connected into the Park La Brea private housing development (gated community).  There was a signal at Wilshire/Ogden and enough side street traffic to justify it.  There's been a lot of construction in the area for the last few years.  Museum expansion caused the block between 6th and Wilshire to be closed to traffic.  For a time, they were forcing all traffic coming on Ogden to turn right and prohibit pedestrian crossing Wilshire.  At this time, they removed the signal completely.

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0628217,-118.3594284,3a,75y,195.54h,79.3t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sLYOztPJE3Guws8t6SbAT2A!2e0!5s20090501T000000!7i13312!8i6656

With the street work done, in later years, they reinstalled the traffic signal.  More construction is happening there as there is further museum expansion as well as work on the Wilshire/Fairfax subway station construction.

So hand it to LADOT for turning off a signal when it wasn't warranted.

That's nice but LADOT should have installed a Bike HAWK instead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZBRnm1I2iE

[jakeroot]

That's nice but LADOT should have installed a Bike HAWK instead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZBRnm1I2iE

I don't know if we need to encourage any more HAWK signals. Compliance still seems abysmal.

[US 89]

I don't know if we need to encourage any more HAWK signals. Compliance still seems abysmal.

From what I've seen, the problem with HAWKs tends to be overcompliance, but it seems to vary quite a bit by region. In Salt Lake City there are enough HAWKs around that most people seem to have a good handle on how to use them. Atlanta doesn't have that many of them, so at the ones that do exist, 99% of the time the drivers there will remain stopped even after the red lights have switched to flashing.

[mrsman]

L.A. has a better version of HAWK based on RYG with a flashing red phase after a brief red while people crossing.  I  posted about it here:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=9135.msg2377006#msg2377006

Traditionally, not done at intersections but only mid-block.


The point that I was making wrt Rosewood/La Brea is that a well designed crossing (like Tuscon's) would have the peds and the right turns not be in conflict with each other so they can make use of the same time during main street red.  This minimizes main street red.  Of course, main street red can be further minimized with a flashing red phase.  If that were the case, side street traffic would face a stop sign instead of a R-Y-Green right arrow.  That will probably work well at Rosewood/La Brea. 


An example of that can be found at the US 101 exit to Spring Street in DTLA:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0571268,-118.2406376,3a,75y,40.88h,78.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFBiWHdIdCAmrIczK_YRovg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Even though Spring Street traffic gets a flashing red to minimize delay on Spring Street, IMO it would be better here to have a full solid red so that the significant traffic coming from the off-ramp can get a green arrow during the times that pedestrians are crossing.  Right turn on red has basically the same throughput as right turn on stop sign at other times.  But at least, the right turns from the off-ramp are not in conflict with the peds crossing Spring.

[Amtrakprod]

Here's a cool signal: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6017421,-122.3318305,3a,24y,315.61h,95.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMYKUdjCUAV3NSaAMgBTKEA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[jakeroot]

Does anyone known if there are any all-orb dedicated left turn displays in use? The kind that say "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" and use, among red and yellow, a green orb to indicate a protected left.

I've personally never seen one, nor am I totally certain that they even existed to begin with. WA has been using arrows for a really long time.

Here's a cool signal: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6017421,-122.3318305,3a,24y,315.61h,95.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMYKUdjCUAV3NSaAMgBTKEA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

EDIT from original message: I keep forgetting to take a photo of that signal. It's very unusual, as the signal head was placed there only very recently. Note this older street view imagery. I'm assuming the signal that we see there today was taken from somewhere else, and then modified to have another display. Note in street view imagery from 2015, the (then new) box-style signal did not have any displays pointing south. Bumping the imagery forward to at least 2017 shows what we see today, which is a much-cleaned-up version of what was installed between 2015 and 2016.

It's a very intriguing signal, and I have no idea why they'd go through the trouble of finding an old signal, and then modifying it for this purpose. Not that I'm against what they did...it's lovely! I wish they'd do it more often. But it's pretty unlike Seattle DOT, who are typically pretty lazy with their installs.

[Revive 755]

Does anyone known if there are any all-orb dedicated left turn displays in use? The kind that say "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" and use, among red and yellow, a green orb to indicate a protected left.

I've personally never seen one, nor am I totally certain that they even existed to begin with. WA has been using arrows for a really long time.

I wouldn't rule it out that there are some out there - IIRC there's a left turn signal in Coralville, Iowa that only has the green as an arrow and uses orbs for the yellow and red.

[jakeroot]

Does anyone known if there are any all-orb dedicated left turn displays in use? The kind that say "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" and use, among red and yellow, a green orb to indicate a protected left.

I've personally never seen one, nor am I totally certain that they even existed to begin with. WA has been using arrows for a really long time.

I wouldn't rule it out that there are some out there - IIRC there's a left turn signal in Coralville, Iowa that only has the green as an arrow and uses orbs for the yellow and red.

Those I see quite often in Virginia, and less often in Washington (state). Saw quite a few in Pennsylvania last week as well.

[roadfro]

Does anyone known if there are any all-orb dedicated left turn displays in use? The kind that say "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" and use, among red and yellow, a green orb to indicate a protected left.

I've personally never seen one, nor am I totally certain that they even existed to begin with. WA has been using arrows for a really long time.

I wouldn't rule it out that there are some out there - IIRC there's a left turn signal in Coralville, Iowa that only has the green as an arrow and uses orbs for the yellow and red.

Those I see quite often in Virginia, and less often in Washington (state). Saw quite a few in Pennsylvania last week as well.

We still have a couple of these in Sparks, NV along McCarran Blvd (here's a SV example, that just happened to be from the turn lane and catch red ball with adjacent thru green). The overhead turn signal is a 3M programmable head with green arrow and red & yellow orbs, with our old standard "Left turn on Green Arrow Only" sign–the far left supplemental pole mount signal is a traditional all-arrow display.

As to the original question: I've never seen one in person, although I feel I've seen photo evidence of one that may have existed somewhere...but couldn't tell you where (and I could be wrong).

[plain]

Does anyone known if there are any all-orb dedicated left turn displays in use? The kind that say "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" and use, among red and yellow, a green orb to indicate a protected left.

I've personally never seen one, nor am I totally certain that they even existed to begin with. WA has been using arrows for a really long time.

I wouldn't rule it out that there are some out there - IIRC there's a left turn signal in Coralville, Iowa that only has the green as an arrow and uses orbs for the yellow and red.

Those I see quite often in Virginia, and less often in Washington (state). Saw quite a few in Pennsylvania last week as well.

They're being phased out in Virginia (at least VDOT-wise), though as you pointed out there are still many left, especially in Northern Virginia.

It's a very slow process in Pennsylvania. It might be another 25 years before even half of their protected lefts have red arrows.

I have never seen a green orb used in a protected left either. Some older signals in Richmond and Williamsburg still have yellow (and red of course) orbs though, and some of them retained this even after the switch to LEDs.

[Ian]

Does anyone known if there are any all-orb dedicated left turn displays in use? The kind that say "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" and use, among red and yellow, a green orb to indicate a protected left.

I've personally never seen one, nor am I totally certain that they even existed to begin with. WA has been using arrows for a really long time.

I wouldn't rule it out that there are some out there - IIRC there's a left turn signal in Coralville, Iowa that only has the green as an arrow and uses orbs for the yellow and red.

Those I see quite often in Virginia, and less often in Washington (state). Saw quite a few in Pennsylvania last week as well.

Small nitpick, but most of the Pennsylvania and Virginia installs remaining only use an orb for the red indication, with standard arrows used for the yellow and green. I've come across older intersections that included a yellow orb as well, but those are uncommon now.

This brings up a question that I've had in the past. What states continued to use red orbs for their protected left-turn signals up until the recent MUTCD mandate requiring red arrows? Other than Virginia and Pennsylvania, I know this was standard operating procedure in Connecticut and Louisiana. You can still find examples throughout those states.

Sidebar: both PA and CT used to have an interesting way of shielding the visibility of the red orb on their left turn signals from thru traffic. If the intersection otherwise calls for cutaway visors on their heads, the LTS's will use them for the arrow indications, but the red orb will be masked by a tunnel visor with louvers on the inside. An example: https://goo.gl/maps/pmCt8PXrnwPHsKbaA

[ErmineNotyours]

Does anyone known if there are any all-orb dedicated left turn displays in use? The kind that say "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" and use, among red and yellow, a green orb to indicate a protected left.

I've personally never seen one, nor am I totally certain that they even existed to begin with. WA has been using arrows for a really long time.

The closest I've seen is this unprotected left that really should be a flashing yellow arrow, now that they're widespread and everyone knows what they are.

[jakeroot]

Does anyone known if there are any all-orb dedicated left turn displays in use? The kind that say "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" and use, among red and yellow, a green orb to indicate a protected left.

I've personally never seen one, nor am I totally certain that they even existed to begin with. WA has been using arrows for a really long time.

The closest I've seen is this unprotected left that really should be a flashing yellow arrow, now that they're widespread and everyone knows what they are.

I find that setup very confusing. I've not driven by there in a long time. What's the purpose of the 3M signal if the left turn is a yield? Especially since it appears to display a red orb during the through green phase. Unless the "yield" message is for left turns onto Langston Road?

Definitely should either be removed or replaced by an FYA.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

NY used to use a red ball with a louver for protected left turn signals up until about 10 years ago when they refitted them all with red arrows. That process took 2 years or so IIRC

[traffic light guy]

I found this mysterious signal in South Philly, it says "HS" on the back of the housing, written in a fancy letter font:


Mysterious HS logo by thesignalman, on Flickr

Mysterious H&amp;S signal by thesignalman, on Flickr