Traffic signal

[kphoger]

Does anyone known if there are any all-orb dedicated left turn displays in use? The kind that say "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" and use, among red and yellow, a green orb to indicate a protected left.

So, is Dallas phasing ruled out because it also has turn signals next to the all-orb stack?

[Roadsguy]

Speaking of Pennsylvania red orb left turn signals, are there any other signals left that display the red orb on the left turn signal while the green arrow is active and through traffic is stopped? The only one I know remaining is the PA 72/Dillerville Road light in Lancaster, which has a left turn signal for all four directions. There was another left turn signal like this at the US 422/PA 501 intersection in Myerstown, but the intersection was just recently revamped and now features modern signals (including red arrows).

[traffic light guy]

Speaking of Pennsylvania red orb left turn signals, are there any other signals left that display the red orb on the left turn signal while the green arrow is active and through traffic is stopped? The only one I know remaining is the PA 72/Dillerville Road light in Lancaster, which has a left turn signal for all four directions. There was another left turn signal like this at the US 422/PA 501 intersection in Myerstown, but the intersection was just recently revamped and now features modern signals (including red arrows).

There was one in Levittown that did the 24/7 red ball, but it got replaced

[ErmineNotyours]

Does anyone known if there are any all-orb dedicated left turn displays in use? The kind that say "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" and use, among red and yellow, a green orb to indicate a protected left.

I've personally never seen one, nor am I totally certain that they even existed to begin with. WA has been using arrows for a really long time.

The closest I've seen is this unprotected left that really should be a flashing yellow arrow, now that they're widespread and everyone knows what they are.

I find that setup very confusing. I've not driven by there in a long time. What's the purpose of the 3M signal if the left turn is a yield? Especially since it appears to display a red orb during the through green phase. Unless the "yield" message is for left turns onto Langston Road?

Definitely should either be removed or replaced by an FYA.

To be fair, it is part of a five way intersection, so there may be no easy solutions.  (Should the yellow arrow point hard left or soft left?  Or both?)

Here is a green orb protected left, but you'll have to trust me because it's hard to see.

[basilicon89]

Horni Signal. Precursor to Marbelite. Marbelite bought Horni's tooling. You'll notice the design is Marbelite with a different logo.

[traffic light guy]

Horni Signal. Precursor to Marbelite. Marbelite bought Horni's tooling. You'll notice the design is Marbelite with a different logo.

No way. Hornis are supre rare

LG-M327

[TonyTrafficLight]

Only other Horni I've seen is one some collector friends fixed up after it came down in Hoboken, NJ
and is now in their museum.

https://www.hobokenmuseum.org/hhmblog/the-hoboken-horni-finds-a-new-home/

[mrsman]

Does anyone known if there are any all-orb dedicated left turn displays in use? The kind that say "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" and use, among red and yellow, a green orb to indicate a protected left.

I've personally never seen one, nor am I totally certain that they even existed to begin with. WA has been using arrows for a really long time.

The closest I've seen is this unprotected left that really should be a flashing yellow arrow, now that they're widespread and everyone knows what they are.

I find that setup very confusing. I've not driven by there in a long time. What's the purpose of the 3M signal if the left turn is a yield? Especially since it appears to display a red orb during the through green phase. Unless the "yield" message is for left turns onto Langston Road?

Definitely should either be removed or replaced by an FYA.

To be fair, it is part of a five way intersection, so there may be no easy solutions.  (Should the yellow arrow point hard left or soft left?  Or both?)

Here is a green orb protected left, but you'll have to trust me because it's hard to see.

I can't imagine that any regular intersection ever had a protected left movement marked by anything other than a green arrow.  The only exception that I'm familiar with are for certain partially protected intersections with split-phasing, yet pedestrians may still cross the path.  So it is protected from cross-traffic, but not pedestrians so it should not get a green arrow.

That might explain what is going on in the link as well.  In any event, I don't think of this as being a protected left, more like a special case of a T-intersection.  If you are at the stem of a T-intersection, a left on green is essentially a protected left since there is no opposing traffic anyway.  In this case, due to the channeling, it is akin to a T-intersection where most traffic is turning right, and the left will have a signal that is distinct from the more dominant right turn traffic. 

Here's another interesting signal at Sunset/Beverly Glen in Los Angeles.  I regard the turn from Sunset to Beverly Glen as being a protected left, but due to the angle of the street, it is signaled as the straight through movement, and the traffic to stay on Sunset is a right turn.  In any event, the green is still shown as green arrow to avoid confusion.

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0822539,-118.4349104,3a,75y,57.37h,83.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snybbT0BEi-jrKTaKFOGoLQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[roadfro]

Does anyone known if there are any all-orb dedicated left turn displays in use? The kind that say "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" and use, among red and yellow, a green orb to indicate a protected left.

I've personally never seen one, nor am I totally certain that they even existed to begin with. WA has been using arrows for a really long time.

The closest I've seen is this unprotected left that really should be a flashing yellow arrow, now that they're widespread and everyone knows what they are.

I find that setup very confusing. I've not driven by there in a long time. What's the purpose of the 3M signal if the left turn is a yield? Especially since it appears to display a red orb during the through green phase. Unless the "yield" message is for left turns onto Langston Road?

Definitely should either be removed or replaced by an FYA.

To be fair, it is part of a five way intersection, so there may be no easy solutions.  (Should the yellow arrow point hard left or soft left?  Or both?)

It appears that the 3M signal head and protected left is for turns onto Sunset, and the "Left turn Yield on Green" is meant for left turns onto Langston (past the Sunset intersection). This is corroborated by the posting of another "Left turn Yield on Green" sign below the symbolic "keep right of median" sign at Hardie & Langston (visible when you zoom out). Moving and augmenting the "Left turn yield on green" sign adjacent to the through signals, and/or some modified lane use signs, would probably make this a bit clearer.

[djlynch]

I saw a Flashing Right Turn Arrow in San Antonio at the SA Airport.  Odd that a right turn needs a yellow flasher, but its north of I-410 on Airport Blvd. 

BTW, I thought I posted this before but I can't find it in my post history, so I guess I did not or I forgot to hit enter or some other issue.

I don't know if it's happening in other areas or if there's anything in the federal or state MUTCDs to back it up, but there seems to be an idea in central Texas that right turns across active crosswalks should have FYAs instead of green arrows. Austin has been replacing green balls at T-intersections with all-arrow installs that show a FYA and a walk light if the pedestrian button has been pushed and a green arrow otherwise.

Assuming that this is the intersection that you're referring to, I assume that the combination of a right arrow and a "no turn on red" sign is to allow right turns at some times when through traffic doesn't have a green, but apparently a green arrow should come with a flashing yellow arrow these days as well.

[jeffandnicole]

I saw a Flashing Right Turn Arrow in San Antonio at the SA Airport.  Odd that a right turn needs a yellow flasher, but its north of I-410 on Airport Blvd. 

BTW, I thought I posted this before but I can't find it in my post history, so I guess I did not or I forgot to hit enter or some other issue.

I don't know if it's happening in other areas or if there's anything in the federal or state MUTCDs to back it up, but there seems to be an idea in central Texas that right turns across active crosswalks should have FYAs instead of green arrows. Austin has been replacing green balls at T-intersections with all-arrow installs that show a FYA and a walk light if the pedestrian button has been pushed and a green arrow otherwise.

Assuming that this is the intersection that you're referring to, I assume that the combination of a right arrow and a "no turn on red" sign is to allow right turns at some times when through traffic doesn't have a green, but apparently a green arrow should come with a flashing yellow arrow these days as well.

A green arrow indicates a protected turn. A green arrow isn't permitted with a walk sign.  Thus, the flashing yellow arrow is correct in this instance.

[jakeroot]

More than a little confused about what I'm supposed to do here. Follow the signal or yield?

[mrsman]

More than a little confused about what I'm supposed to do here. Follow the signal or yield?

Yield.

This means you may have to watch for pedestrians, even if the light is green.

Right turn will be permitted, without the need to come to a complete stop, even if the light is red.

[SignBridge]

That's very odd. I have never seen a yield sign used that way. I thought a signal would normally supercede a sign.

[jakeroot]

Yield.

This means you may have to watch for pedestrians, even if the light is green.

Right turn will be permitted, without the need to come to a complete stop, even if the light is red.

But there's a separate pedestrian crossing signal, which is active when the light is red.

That's very odd. I have never seen a yield sign used that way. I thought a signal would normally supercede a sign.

My understanding was that you could not combine signal and sign control.

[Revive 755]

^ That's what the MUTCD says as well.

Because the potential for conflicting commands could create driver confusion, YIELD or STOP signs shall not be used in conjunction with any traffic control signal operation, except in the following cases:
A. If the signal indication for an approach is a flashing red at all times;
B. If a minor street or driveway is located within or adjacent to the area controlled by the traffic control signal, but does not require separate traffic signal control because an extremely low
potential for conflict exists; or
C. If a channelized turn lane is separated from the adjacent travel lanes by an island and the channelized turn lane is not controlled by a traffic control signal.

[jeffandnicole]

Yield.

This means you may have to watch for pedestrians, even if the light is green.

Right turn will be permitted, without the need to come to a complete stop, even if the light is red.

But there's a separate pedestrian crossing signal, which is active when the light is red.

That's very odd. I have never seen a yield sign used that way. I thought a signal would normally supercede a sign.

My understanding was that you could not combine signal and sign control.

There's no walk signal for that right lane crossing from what I can tell.

Also, the stop line should be triangles when a yield sign is present, and the yield sign should be close to the line, prior to the crosswalk.

It almost appears as if the yield sign is a recent addition to the lane, and may have historically been controlled by the signal.

[jakeroot]

There's no walk signal for that right lane crossing from what I can tell.

Hit the Google maps link in my post. There's a crossing signal on the pole and right behind the yield sign.

The solid line is because the crossing is signal controlled (aka a stop line).

(Thank you for the text, Revive 755).

[sprjus4]

Would one turning right still have to stop if the signal was green? This intersection was completely revamped in 2014 which constructed the turn lanes and installed a traffic signal. IMO, this movement should have at most a yield sign, or a dedicated signal with a right arrow.



https://www.google.com/maps/@36.7002655,-76.1855966,224m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1

[jakeroot]

Would one turning right still have to stop if the signal was green? This intersection was completely revamped in 2014 which constructed the turn lanes and installed a traffic signal. IMO, this movement should have at most a yield sign, or a dedicated signal with a right arrow.

https://i.ibb.co/LppzqMz/centervilleblueridge.png

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.7002655,-76.1855966,224m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1

Slip lanes are not really part of intersections, so other signs can be used to control their flow (usually yield signs, but stop signs are, strangely, not that uncommon). When near a signal, traffic can get some idea of whether they'll need to actually stop (with yield signs) based on the state of the adjacent signal, but this is technically a separate movement.

Compare this to my image upthread (from Hawaii), where the only approach to the intersection (from the pictured direction) is the lane on the right, which is a forced right turn. The signals in the photo are clearly meant to control this approach, but an errant YIELD sign is also trying to control the movement.

[jeffandnicole]

There's no walk signal for that right lane crossing from what I can tell.

Hit the Google maps link in my post. There's a crossing signal on the pole and right behind the yield sign.

The solid line is because the crossing is signal controlled (aka a stop line).

(Thank you for the text, Revive 755).

Ah, I see it now.

[signalman]

Does anyone known if there are any all-orb dedicated left turn displays in use? The kind that say "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" and use, among red and yellow, a green orb to indicate a protected left.

I noticed one just a couple of days ago and was quite surprised.  There's some older installations in NJ that still use circular red and yellow, but this one even uses circular green:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9187613,-74.1308371,3a,87.8y,14.83h,82.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLhksoyZbDQpBCe5uQ5rLzg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Notice the left turn signal on the left side.  The right LT signal uses NJ's older style for protected lefts (circular 8 inch red and yellow, 12 inch green arrow)

[US71]

I found a 4-way pedestal in Toledo Iowa last week

[SignBridge]

I remember one like that in downtown Dedham, Massachusetts some years back. Don't know if it's still there.

[jakeroot]

Curious what people think of this: https://goo.gl/maps/8WQEYeisRgDNc79Y9

In the link, there's a couple things to notice:

1) the right turn (from the linked approach) is a slip lane
2) there are two left turn lanes at the signal (right lane may go straight)
3) the overhead signals have one green left arrow, one green orb, and one green right arrow (latter two stacked upon each other).

Based on the information, I think the right-green arrow may have been installed facing the wrong direction (right instead of left). There is no indication that right turns are even permitted at the intersection, plus (more importantly) this sort of setup, with two green left arrows and a green orb were very common prior to the 2009 MUTCD for option lane approaches without a dedicated right turn lane, at least in states that don't require pole-mounted signals (such as VA). The signal in the original link was installed in 2013/2014, although the signal may have been designed prior to VDOT's adoption of the 2009 MUTCD.