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Non-Road Boards => Off-Topic => Topic started by: LM117 on May 22, 2021, 07:43:08 PM

Title: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: LM117 on May 22, 2021, 07:43:08 PM
Microsoft will finally put it out of it's misery on June 15, 2022.

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2021/05/19/the-future-of-internet-explorer-on-windows-10-is-in-microsoft-edge/ (https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2021/05/19/the-future-of-internet-explorer-on-windows-10-is-in-microsoft-edge/)
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: zachary_amaryllis on May 22, 2021, 07:50:33 PM
this probably isn't the problem it was years ago...

but i remember early on when i was doing some web design.. seemed like there was the html that ie understood.. and the html that the rest of the world used. all sorts of weird css workarounds to get stuff to display right.

don't want to start a browser war... (ok, so i do...)

but.. chrome > ie
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: kevinb1994 on May 22, 2021, 07:59:56 PM
What can I say, Iím not surprised...

It took this long to kill off a no-longer-necessary web browser. Nice.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: SectorZ on May 22, 2021, 08:43:19 PM
It'll be interesting to see how many programs that use IE for some purpose that aren't maintained anymore will die with this change.

Quicken, for example, uses IE to update accounts. I presume over the next year they can fix how that works. Hell for all I know they use the built in IE parts in Edge to do it and maybe have done so for years.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: JoePCool14 on May 22, 2021, 08:52:35 PM
I honestly cannot remember the last time I unironically used Internet Explorer. Long live the Brave browser!
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: vdeane on May 22, 2021, 09:51:45 PM
There are a couple of things I use IE for at work.  Namely some payment entries that use an Oracle database via a Java applet launched via the browser (shudder) and the photolog uses Silverlight.  It will be interesting to see how this shakes out.  Maybe it will be a good excuse to get rid of the shivs in my website to make things work reasonably properly in IE (then again, one of those shivs addresses behavior that only happens in Windows 7, so... maybe not).
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: kkt on May 22, 2021, 09:59:09 PM
Viva Lynx!
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: texaskdog on May 22, 2021, 09:59:49 PM
Edge is terrible, this makes me sad
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: texaskdog on May 22, 2021, 10:00:16 PM
There are a couple of things I use IE for at work.  Namely some payment entries that use an Oracle database via a Java applet launched via the browser (shudder) and the photolog uses Silverlight.  It will be interesting to see how this shakes out.  Maybe it will be a good excuse to get rid of the shivs in my website to make things work reasonably properly in IE (then again, one of those shivs addresses behavior that only happens in Windows 7, so... maybe not).

Edge converts my files to PDF.  IE converts them to excel, which is what I need.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: tolbs17 on May 22, 2021, 11:39:48 PM
Used it until about 2010.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: In_Correct on May 23, 2021, 12:08:27 AM
Good. Now if we can also discontinue Microsoft Edge. 
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: Brandon on May 23, 2021, 01:30:57 AM
Microsoft will finally put it out of it's misery on June 15, 2022.

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2021/05/19/the-future-of-internet-explorer-on-windows-10-is-in-microsoft-edge/ (https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2021/05/19/the-future-of-internet-explorer-on-windows-10-is-in-microsoft-edge/)

Good riddance to bad rubbish.  When IE came out, there were already better browsers out there (Netscape anyone?).  The only reason IE made it is because Microsoft bundled it with Windows.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 23, 2021, 11:50:32 AM
I still use Internet Explorer at work.  As of late there has been a push to Microsoft Edge instead. 
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: In_Correct on May 23, 2021, 12:17:44 PM
Microsoft Internet Explorer was not even the First Internet Browser. It is more like one of the most recent ones.

I could not ever tolerate the annoying messages that you lose the entire page that was loaded. Instead a page length error message appeared. Other Internet Browsers such as Netscape did not redirect a successfully loaded Web Page. All of the Error Messages were in Window Boxes. And there were times if you clicked Stop, the other browsers kept your loaded Web Page. Clicking Stop on Internet Explorer resulted in a page long Error Message saying "Action Canceled".

And then a new and highly promoted Internet Explorer was in development. I was expecting that Internet Explorer would switch to error messages inside Window Boxes. Instead, Internet Explorer did not correct the issues, and all the other Internet Browsers switched to page long error messages. (!)

Today's Internet Browsers are and have been rubbish. It is unacceptable to have Internet Browsers increase R.A.M. consumption. The Web Design on most Web Sites makes it impossible to navigate. Error Messages are worse than ever. They actually have Mascots (!) that dance around all the time.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: cwf1701 on May 23, 2021, 02:47:43 PM
for the last 10 years, IE was the browser to get another browser.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 23, 2021, 02:55:48 PM
Will anyone miss it?
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: GaryV on May 23, 2021, 03:00:50 PM
Does that mean I have to rewrite a report at work?  It uses SQL Server Reporting Service, which doesn't work with Chrome.  The job that produces the report sends out an email to the users notifying them to look for it.  Part of that email is a line that says they must use IE, Chrome doesn't work.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: US71 on May 23, 2021, 03:28:40 PM
Will anyone miss it?

Not much.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: kkt on May 23, 2021, 03:30:33 PM
Will anyone miss it?

I wouldn't say that I'm going to miss it, Bob
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: Bruce on May 23, 2021, 03:49:38 PM
Fun fact, until recently the mandatory bank authentication service in South Korea required the use of Internet Explorer for most online purchases. A hazard of being forward-thinking in 1999 but not keeping pace.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/due-to-security-law-south-korea-is-stuck-with-internet-explorer-for-online-shopping/2013/11/03/ffd2528a-3eff-11e3-b028-de922d7a3f47_story.html
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: In_Correct on May 23, 2021, 05:20:35 PM
I Hate "Unsupported Browser.".
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: Scott5114 on May 23, 2021, 06:08:51 PM
Today's Internet Browsers are and have been rubbish. It is unacceptable to have Internet Browsers increase R.A.M. consumption. The Web Design on most Web Sites makes it impossible to navigate. Error Messages are worse than ever. They actually have Mascots (!) that dance around all the time.

Well, the root cause of the problem is that Web browsers are expected to serve as an entire OS unto themselves at this point. In order to be compatible with every Web application possible now, browsers have to support an entire scripting language (JavaScript), a video player, multitasking (tabs), a database server (Web Storage), a drawing API (<canvas>), and more. Much of that functionality is redundant with the OS's own windowing system and drawing API.

The upside means that we have a lot of functionality available that doesn't care what kind of device or operating system you're running now. So many things that were long ago executables that you had to install locally run through the Web browser now. But the downside is that supporting all of that functionality takes a hell of a lot of RAM. If you try to use a browser with the same resource footprint of Netscape Navigator 4.08 you might be able to access Wikipedia and AARoads and that's it. It just wouldn't support enough features to handle anything more complicated.

Does that mean I have to rewrite a report at work?  It uses SQL Server Reporting Service, which doesn't work with Chrome.  The job that produces the report sends out an email to the users notifying them to look for it.  Part of that email is a line that says they must use IE, Chrome doesn't work.

Occupational hazard of tying yourself to a non-open-source software stack, unfortunately. A less-fragile way of going about it would have been to do all that functionality in Python or Perl and have that query the SQL server using, well, SQL.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: ozarkman417 on May 23, 2021, 07:48:34 PM
Farewell to the best Chrome/Firefox installer there ever was.

Yet, there was a time where IE refused to work on my PC, so I used Google Earth's built in browser to install Chrome.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 23, 2021, 07:49:32 PM
Farewell to the best Chrome/Firefox installer there ever was.

Yet, there was a time where IE refused to work on my PC, so I used Google Earth's built in browser to install Chrome.
How would you install google earth?
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: vdeane on May 23, 2021, 09:17:25 PM
It will be interesting to see how "IE mode" handles things.  It theoretically could handle the rendering side well, but there are differences in how Edge and IE function that go beyond rendering, and those can become important.  IE, for example, will allow you to open a downloaded file without permanently saving it somewhere.  Such functionality is rare these days - when IE goes, Firefox will be the only browser I'm aware of that still allows it, so if a site needs both that and IE mode, you'll be out of luck.

Good. Now if we can also discontinue Microsoft Edge. 
And then we'd practically have a browser monoculture not unlike what we had when IE became dominant over Netscape.  This monoculture is what led to IE ignoring standards and then deciding it didn't need to evolve for a decade.  IE6 had virtually no competition, and it shows.

These days, the monoculture gives Google control of the internet.  Granted, Edge isn't a great defense against that as it's based on Chromium (the open source version of Chrome), and Google is already throwing their weight around.  Just witness their effort to eviscerate the synchronization API in non-Chrome browsers.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: kenarmy on May 24, 2021, 08:02:53 AM
Idc what y'all say, Internet Explorer is never dying and it's always gonna be used in some capacity. Also, I don't think Edge is that bad. It's just... ugly.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: bulldog1979 on May 24, 2021, 09:04:28 PM
The property management system we use at the hotel where I work is web-/cloud-based. It's written as a series of modules, most of which have already been rewritten. The GM Functions module still relies on Silverlight though, so until the PMS vendor rewrites that last module, I'll need IE (or some legacy version of another browser that works with Silverlight) for several tasks. I'm sure the vendor is working on it though.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: OCGuy81 on May 25, 2021, 10:27:32 AM
It's amazing how many sites didn't work with IE, but would run just fine with Firefox, Chrome, hell even Safari on my iphone!
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: hbelkins on May 25, 2021, 11:03:44 AM
I'm not a huge fan of IE, but I can't really see that Edge is any better. We use SharePoint for maintaining our work Web site (ugh) and IE works best with it, not Edge.

As a Mac user, I can also say I'm not enamored with Safari either. I prefer Chrome or Firefox, but I know Chrome is falling out of favor with a lot of people because it's part of the Google behemoth.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: epzik8 on May 25, 2021, 11:11:25 AM
I used to like IE, but now I'm Chrome all the way.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: OCGuy81 on May 25, 2021, 11:24:04 AM
I used to like IE, but now I'm Chrome all the way.

Same here.  It's amazing how few sites seem to gel with IE.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: bwana39 on May 25, 2021, 12:10:51 PM
It'll be interesting to see how many programs that use IE for some purpose that aren't maintained anymore will die with this change.

Quicken, for example, uses IE to update accounts. I presume over the next year they can fix how that works. Hell for all I know they use the built in IE parts in Edge to do it and maybe have done so for years.

My wife has a work client that demands IE.  It will not even try with EDGE or Chrome. At least it works with Firefox.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: Scott5114 on May 25, 2021, 01:57:24 PM
I'm not sure why anyone uses Chrome, to be honest. Firefox works just as well or better and isn't feeding your data back to Google.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 25, 2021, 03:54:08 PM
I'm not sure why anyone uses Chrome, to be honest. Firefox works just as well or better and isn't feeding your data back to Google.
Chrome works better with gmail and other google services.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: seicer on May 25, 2021, 04:12:11 PM
I'm not a huge fan of IE, but I can't really see that Edge is any better. We use SharePoint for maintaining our work Web site (ugh) and IE works best with it, not Edge.

As a Mac user, I can also say I'm not enamored with Safari either. I prefer Chrome or Firefox, but I know Chrome is falling out of favor with a lot of people because it's part of the Google behemoth.

From professional experience and knowledge (SharePoint SME here), the KYTC is on a deprecated version of SharePoint that has long been replaced by a much more modern and compatible experience. It's pretty bad when KYTC's sites aren't fully accessible to those with disabilities (which is a huge liability and lawsuit waiting to happen).

For what it's worth, the new Edge is based on Chromium which is what Chrome is based upon. So if you like Chrome, you'll have a very similar experience with Edge - with the same extensions to boot. It even has IE compatibility tabs so that if a vendor still has not updated their seriously old applications, then it will still work.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: Scott5114 on May 25, 2021, 04:53:37 PM
I'm not sure why anyone uses Chrome, to be honest. Firefox works just as well or better and isn't feeding your data back to Google.
Chrome works better with gmail and other google services.

I have absolutely no problem using Gmail in Firefox, and I have three accounts through it, two of which are business accounts.

Google Maps might work better in Chrome. It spikes the processor like crazy in Firefox. But that is Google Maps' problem to fix, not Firefox's.

If a service does not work as intended in a standards-compliant browser, it is the service's fault, not the standards or the browser.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: vdeane on May 25, 2021, 05:02:07 PM
I'm not sure why anyone uses Chrome, to be honest. Firefox works just as well or better and isn't feeding your data back to Google.
Chrome works better with gmail and other google services.

I have absolutely no problem using Gmail in Firefox, and I have three accounts through it, two of which are business accounts.

Google Maps might work better in Chrome. It spikes the processor like crazy in Firefox. But that is Google Maps' problem to fix, not Firefox's.

If a service does not work as intended in a standards-compliant browser, it is the service's fault, not the standards or the browser.
At this point, probably because everyone else uses.  I did look into it when Google started throwing their weight around (also when Google decided that the solution to the memory usage problem was to suspend all tabs but the visible one and then reload them when you switch, making browsing extremely annoying and making me lose my place on pages; I ended up installing an extension to stop this, but it means I now need to be careful with Facebook, as Google also changed things to allow a site to max out the computer's RAM).  In my case, I'm still on Chrome because I like the interface, I use the bookmark sync and reading list features to make navigating between my desktop, laptop, and phone easier, I like that I can add any search engine I want (Firefox requires extensions for this; on the other hand, Firefox comes with StartPage, which needs an extension on Chrome as it doesn't do queries by URL), and I use the ability to block JavaScript on a per-site basis to get around sites that block adblockers or incognito browsing (usually paywalled news sites on the latter), which Firefox lacks.  Plus the font difference makes many sites, including my own, look weird and IMO less aesthetically pleasing than on Chromium-based browsers.

In the past, the built-in Flash and PDF viewers were also a draw, but that's not much of an issue on the modern internet; other browsers have caught up with PDFs and Flash is dead.

That issue with Google Maps makes it seem like Chrome is well on its way to being a modern-day IE6.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: 1 on May 25, 2021, 05:03:46 PM
Safari works pretty well for me. I've encountered very few things that don't work if any. Images load on this forum when they don't for others.

Private browsing is truly undetectable (it works differently from the way Chrome's incognito works), so I can usually access the New York Times and other paywalled sites without issue.

There are two issues I have:
1. There's no way to warn "this is a download, do you want to do it". The only way to do so (which I've enabled) is for it to ask where you want your download to go and then click cancel if I don't want to download it. Fortunately, despite the number of webpages saying "download PDF", viewing them doesn't require downloading.
2. Any website with an expired certificate, as well as any website that isn't allowed on that wifi (e.g. at any university you're not a member of, pretty much everything except the university website), gives the same warning message as a suspected phishing link.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: vdeane on May 25, 2021, 05:11:59 PM
1. There's no way to warn "this is a download, do you want to do it". The only way to do so (which I've enabled) is for it to ask where you want your download to go and then click cancel if I don't want to download it. Fortunately, despite the number of webpages saying "download PDF", viewing them doesn't require downloading.
This is an issue with Chromium-based browsers too.  It's annoying that there's no way to say "I don't want to keep this, just directly open the cached copy instead of saving it permanently" - especially when a site forces you to download something that should be viewable in-browser, like an image or PDF.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: seicer on May 25, 2021, 05:33:30 PM
1. There's no way to warn "this is a download, do you want to do it". The only way to do so (which I've enabled) is for it to ask where you want your download to go and then click cancel if I don't want to download it. Fortunately, despite the number of webpages saying "download PDF", viewing them doesn't require downloading.
This is an issue with Chromium-based browsers too.  It's annoying that there's no way to say "I don't want to keep this, just directly open the cached copy instead of saving it permanently" - especially when a site forces you to download something that should be viewable in-browser, like an image or PDF.

It really depends if the site has a viewer or not, too. With our SharePoint sites, clicking a PDF in any browser will allow the document to be viewed in the browser.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: Scott5114 on May 25, 2021, 05:43:02 PM
At this point, probably because everyone else uses.  I did look into it when Google started throwing their weight around (also when Google decided that the solution to the memory usage problem was to suspend all tabs but the visible one and then reload them when you switch, making browsing extremely annoying and making me lose my place on pages; I ended up installing an extension to stop this, but it means I now need to be careful with Facebook, as Google also changed things to allow a site to max out the computer's RAM).

I actually have a Firefox extension (Auto Tab Discard) that enables this behavior on Firefox, although it only does so when a tab is inactive for a set amount of time, and when reloaded the view remains the same.

...and I use the ability to block JavaScript on a per-site basis to get around sites that block adblockers or incognito browsing (usually paywalled news sites on the latter), which Firefox lacks.

This is also doable on Firefox with an extension (YesScript2). It allows you to "semi-block" a page as well, which blocks some subset of JavaScript features but not all of them.

I've never run into a site that seemed to know I was browsing with Firefox's Private Browsing mode, nor can I imagine a way a site could detect such a thing. I suspect Chrome sends some signal communicating such to the site, probably because the Chrome devs see making a Web browser as a means to provide additional opportunities for capitalism, while Firefox devs see it as a means to provide additional opportunities for communication. Looking at it from the Firefox perspective, whether or not you are in Private Browsing mode is none of the website's business.

Plus the font difference makes many sites, including my own, look weird and IMO less aesthetically pleasing than on Chromium-based browsers.

I am pretty much going to experience font differences no matter what, as the "web-safe" font set (Arial, Times New Roman, Verdana, Trebuchet, et al) is completely absent on Linux, and these font names are aliased to other fonts with equivalent metrics (any specification of "Arial" is aliased to "Liberation Sans", for instance). Even then, I notice periodic variations based on underlying infrastructure changes in what I can only assume is the X server or the window manageróthere seem to be two versions of the DejaVu font package that I use as the default sans-serif font when none is specified by stylesheet, and which one I see swaps back and forth from time to time when I upgrade system versions.

Font rendering and choices are starting to matter less and less now that websites can provide a Web font and ask the browser to render it in that. You can choose whatever font you want and not have to worry about whether the user has it installed or not. This is made easier by Google hosting a wide array of these font files that can then be specified in CSS by simply copy-pasting from the Google Fonts page.

1. There's no way to warn "this is a download, do you want to do it". The only way to do so (which I've enabled) is for it to ask where you want your download to go and then click cancel if I don't want to download it. Fortunately, despite the number of webpages saying "download PDF", viewing them doesn't require downloading.
This is an issue with Chromium-based browsers too.  It's annoying that there's no way to say "I don't want to keep this, just directly open the cached copy instead of saving it permanently" - especially when a site forces you to download something that should be viewable in-browser, like an image or PDF.

The way that Firefox handles it, at least on Linux, is to save the file to a cache directory in systemland somewhere (mine is /tmp/mozilla_scott0/ómy Linux username is scott so I'm guessing the 0 is to separate multiple Firefox profiles; I'm guessing it would use a subdirectory of its install directory on Windows) and then periodically clean up the directory after files are no longer being used.

It really depends if the site has a viewer or not, too. With our SharePoint sites, clicking a PDF in any browser will allow the document to be viewed in the browser.

I think it's pretty silly to provide an embedded PDF viewer in a Web page anyway. I have my own PDF viewer preferences, let me use those instead of enduring your reinvention of the wheel cause you think it's nifty-looking!
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: bandit957 on May 26, 2021, 12:17:38 PM
Firefox used to be really good and fast, but when you open a website with more recent versions, you may want to bring a book.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: hbelkins on May 26, 2021, 08:38:39 PM
I'm not a huge fan of IE, but I can't really see that Edge is any better. We use SharePoint for maintaining our work Web site (ugh) and IE works best with it, not Edge.

As a Mac user, I can also say I'm not enamored with Safari either. I prefer Chrome or Firefox, but I know Chrome is falling out of favor with a lot of people because it's part of the Google behemoth.

From professional experience and knowledge (SharePoint SME here), the KYTC is on a deprecated version of SharePoint that has long been replaced by a much more modern and compatible experience. It's pretty bad when KYTC's sites aren't fully accessible to those with disabilities (which is a huge liability and lawsuit waiting to happen).

I get the feeling that the prevailing school of thought was, "We paid big money for this package, so we're going to use it in as many ways as possible."

During the last redesign of the sites, the intent was to make the pages more mobile-friendly, and I was under the impression that accessibility issues were going to be addressed as well.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: US71 on July 15, 2021, 03:22:26 PM
Firefox used to be really good and fast, but when you open a website with more recent versions, you may want to bring a book.

They are constantly updating. Every couple weeks I get a "We have updated your browser"
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: kphoger on May 18, 2022, 02:44:10 PM
So...  I'm wondering...

For work, I run a program (CSG FSM (https://www.csgi.com/resources/csg-field-service-management/)) supplied by one of the MSOs we work for.  Inside that program, one of the applications automatically opens in Internet Explorer.  Does anyone know for sure what will happen after next month?
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: seicer on May 18, 2022, 02:52:34 PM
Once the patch or group policy comes into effect next month, users will be directed to Edge. I'm not sure how CSG FSM has coded it - perhaps it's a hard-coded link to open just IE, but it should redirect to Edge.

Has your local sysadmin set up a local site list for IE mode for Edge (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployedge/edge-ie-mode-local-site-list)? If you have the link that that application is opening, you can send it to your sysadmin and they can add it to the local site list so that you can use Edge's IE mode (File > Reload in Internet Explorer mode).

We have just *one* application that "relies" on IE. Works fine in Edge but the developer refuses to update it... so we are having to add it to the local site list until we replace it in a few months.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: bandit957 on May 18, 2022, 02:54:05 PM
Explorer is the only browser I know of that lets you open one of your pages as a text file and edit it. What are we supposed to do now to edit pages?
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: kphoger on May 18, 2022, 03:02:54 PM
We have just *one* application that "relies" on IE. Works fine in Edge but the developer refuses to update it... so we are having to add it to the local site list until we replace it in a few months.

I just tried the URL for the application in both Chrome and Edge, and it told me 'invalid username' for both.  I could log in again, and it work, but it took me to a different application within the same site instead.  Hmm......
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: Scott5114 on May 18, 2022, 05:24:38 PM
Explorer is the only browser I know of that lets you open one of your pages as a text file and edit it. What are we supposed to do now to edit pages?

You can always save an HTML file to disk and open it in any plain-text editor.

Additionally, in Firefox, you can right click any part of the page and click "Inspect" and it will display the HTML of the page. If you change it, the version of the page loaded in memory will change. I'm not really sure if there's a way to save any changes to disk, but at least you can have fun making people say things they would never actually say.

(https://i.imgur.com/1jvJpKN.png)
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: rickmastfan67 on May 20, 2022, 03:04:27 AM
Explorer is the only browser I know of that lets you open one of your pages as a text file and edit it. What are we supposed to do now to edit pages?

You can always save an HTML file to disk and open it in any plain-text editor.

Additionally, in Firefox, you can right click any part of the page and click "Inspect" and it will display the HTML of the page. If you change it, the version of the page loaded in memory will change. I'm not really sure if there's a way to save any changes to disk, but at least you can have fun making people say things they would never actually say.

(https://i.imgur.com/1jvJpKN.png)

For sure.  :-D :sombrero:

(https://i.imgur.com/vyEwwT0.png)
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: kurumi on May 20, 2022, 01:29:03 PM
At least you didn't make him root for the Patriots. There are some lines you just do not cross :-)
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: rickmastfan67 on May 21, 2022, 04:02:13 PM
At least you didn't make him root for the Patriots. There are some lines you just do not cross :-)

Had to keep it on topic.  :-D
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: 1 on May 21, 2022, 04:05:32 PM
At least you didn't make him root for the Patriots. There are some lines you just do not cross :-)

https://www.wcvb.com/article/boston-bruins-legend-ray-bourque-crosses-stop-and-shop-picket-line-in-north-andover/27154540

(URL should be enough to get the point)
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: SectorZ on May 21, 2022, 05:37:28 PM
At least you didn't make him root for the Patriots. There are some lines you just do not cross :-)

https://www.wcvb.com/article/boston-bruins-legend-ray-bourque-crosses-stop-and-shop-picket-line-in-north-andover/27154540

(URL should be enough to get the point)

More people were pissed about that than when he was driving shitfaced in Andover and plowed into a car at a red light. That in itself tells you multiple things wrong about our state.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: kphoger on June 20, 2022, 04:19:55 PM
Oh hey, look!  When I open Internet Explorer, I get a popup that says "Internet Explorer 11 retires on June 15, 2022 [...]"  And yet, of course, it still works just fine.  I'm running live reports right now.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: 1995hoo on June 20, 2022, 06:36:08 PM
IT removed IE from our work PCs last week. The icon was still there and I accidentally clicked it (it was next to the Firefox icon). I got an error message and then the icon vanished.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: US71 on June 20, 2022, 08:09:45 PM
IT removed IE from our work PCs last week. The icon was still there and I accidentally clicked it (it was next to the Firefox icon). I got an error message and then the icon vanished.

Was it removed or eaploded? ;)
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: hbelkins on June 20, 2022, 09:21:42 PM
IT removed IE from our work PCs last week. The icon was still there and I accidentally clicked it (it was next to the Firefox icon). I got an error message and then the icon vanished.

Same happened to me. I just hope that all the bookmarks I had were transferred to Edge.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: kkt on June 20, 2022, 09:30:38 PM
Byebye, IE, and don't let the door hit you in the bits in the way out.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: 1995hoo on June 21, 2022, 07:54:16 AM
IT removed IE from our work PCs last week. The icon was still there and I accidentally clicked it (it was next to the Firefox icon). I got an error message and then the icon vanished.

Same happened to me. I just hope that all the bookmarks I had were transferred to Edge.

I didnít have any bookmarks in IE because by the end I was only using it for one website that, until last month, didnít work in any other browser due to how its Java setup was configured.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: kphoger on June 21, 2022, 10:14:15 AM
Oh hey, look!  When I open Internet Explorer, I get a popup that says "Internet Explorer 11 retires on June 15, 2022 [...]"  And yet, of course, it still works just fine.  I'm running live reports right now.

Byebye, IE, and don't let the door hit you in the bits in the way out.

I don't think "gone" actually means "gone".
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: bandit957 on June 21, 2022, 10:42:30 AM
Also, with the death of Internet Explorer, Microsoft has made it so Edge is automatically running in the background on startup. You have to disable it from the startup items.

It took a half-hour to restart my computer because of this.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: US 89 on June 21, 2022, 11:03:53 AM
I still miss the look of IE6 on Windows XP.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: hbelkins on June 21, 2022, 11:20:46 AM
I will admit to being terribly amused at the lawsuits that were filed because MS made IE an integral part of Windows.

I just wondered why people didn't do what I did, and use IE to download Netscape Navigator, Chrome, or Firefox.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: bandit957 on June 21, 2022, 11:34:28 AM
I just wondered why people didn't do what I did, and use IE to download Netscape Navigator, Chrome, or Firefox.

Firefox was great for years, but the later editions are all so slow you can barely even use it.

Also, when Microsoft discontinued IE, it also did something that makes Windows Explorer lock up constantly. Now, Windows Explorer is just a constant cycle of slow performance, lockups, and reloads.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: Brandon on June 21, 2022, 08:56:27 PM
I will admit to being terribly amused at the lawsuits that were filed because MS made IE an integral part of Windows.

I just wondered why people didn't do what I did, and use IE to download Netscape Navigator, Chrome, or Firefox.

At the time of the DOJ investigation into Microsoft, Chrome and Firefox didn't exist yet.  Netscape Navigator cost money to install on a computer (these were the days when you needed a disk or CD to install a program).
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: Scott5114 on June 22, 2022, 04:48:27 AM
I still miss the look of IE6 on Windows XP.

If I were to use IE6 in the way that I do Firefox, I would have 547 windows on my taskbar. No thanks.

It took a half-hour to restart my computer because of this.

Also, when Microsoft discontinued IE, it also did something that makes Windows Explorer lock up constantly. Now, Windows Explorer is just a constant cycle of slow performance, lockups, and reloads.

I'll be the first to criticize Windows for being a morbidly flabby piece of software, but I think your computer may just not meet the system requirements to run it anymore.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: 1995hoo on June 22, 2022, 09:35:23 AM
I still miss the look of IE6 on Windows XP.

If I were to use IE6 in the way that I do Firefox, I would have 547 windows on my taskbar. No thanks.

Heh. It's 9:30 in the morning and I already have 13 browser tabs open across two browsers (and earlier thing morning I had four .PDFs and two Word documents open as well). Part of it is that one of the websites I use every day throughout the day opens things in new tabs by default. Most of the time I might find that annoying, but for that site it's actually useful because keeping its main page open in one tab makes access to other information a lot easier.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: kphoger on June 22, 2022, 09:52:30 AM
If I were to use IE6 in the way that I do Firefox, I would have 547 windows on my taskbar. No thanks.

Heh. It's 9:30 in the morning and I already have 13 browser tabs open across two browsers (and earlier thing morning I had four .PDFs and two Word documents open as well). Part of it is that one of the websites I use every day throughout the day opens things in new tabs by default. Most of the time I might find that annoying, but for that site it's actually useful because keeping its main page open in one tab makes access to other information a lot easier.

It's 8:40 am here.

Firefox ó 1 window, 1 tab
Chrome ó 3 windows, 7 tabs
Internet Explorer ó 1 window, 2 tabs

One of the sites I use in Internet Explorer opens links in Edge.

The bulk of my daily work is auditing job pay:  (1) how much our field techs are billing us for the work they do, and (2) how much the MSOs are paying our company for those same jobs.  When I'm in the middle of auditing a given region, my Firefox browser might have 15 tabs open at one time.  This is because each work order in our WMS has a unique URL, and I find it convenient to open a dozen or so at a time and then work through that chunk before moving on.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: bandit957 on June 22, 2022, 09:56:32 AM
I've noticed this on recent editions of Firefox: The window will expand to fill the whole screen, overlapping the taskbar at the bottom. It will stay like this for about 30 seconds to a minute. While this is going on, the whole computer is completely locked up. The cursor will spin, but clicking on any program does nothing.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: 1995hoo on June 22, 2022, 10:03:56 AM
I've noticed this on recent editions of Firefox: The window will expand to fill the whole screen, overlapping the taskbar at the bottom. It will stay like this for about 30 seconds to a minute. While this is going on, the whole computer is completely locked up. The cursor will spin, but clicking on any program does nothing.

I have not had that issue on either my home or work PC.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: kphoger on June 22, 2022, 10:04:58 AM
I've noticed this on recent editions of Firefox: The window will expand to fill the whole screen, overlapping the taskbar at the bottom. It will stay like this for about 30 seconds to a minute. While this is going on, the whole computer is completely locked up. The cursor will spin, but clicking on any program does nothing.

I use Firefox every day.  I've never had that happen.

Whenever my whole computer is completely locked up for a few seconds and clicking on a program does nothing, it doesn't seem to depend on what browsers are open at the time.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: hbelkins on June 22, 2022, 04:03:56 PM
I will admit to being terribly amused at the lawsuits that were filed because MS made IE an integral part of Windows.

I just wondered why people didn't do what I did, and use IE to download Netscape Navigator, Chrome, or Firefox.

At the time of the DOJ investigation into Microsoft, Chrome and Firefox didn't exist yet.  Netscape Navigator cost money to install on a computer (these were the days when you needed a disk or CD to install a program).

Not in my case. I had used Macs from 1987 until 1995, when I changed jobs and had to use a PC running Windows 3.1. I didn't have to use a disk to install Netscape. The only browser I had to use a disk to install was the one built-in to the AOL software.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: skluth on June 22, 2022, 04:08:16 PM
Also, with the death of Internet Explorer, Microsoft has made it so Edge is automatically running in the background on startup. You have to disable it from the startup items.

It took a half-hour to restart my computer because of this.

I haven't bothered to upgrade either of my computers to Windows 11 because of the horror stories I've heard from those trying to use browsers other than Edge with 11. I've tried Edge and I think it's crap.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: rickmastfan67 on June 22, 2022, 09:40:40 PM
I've noticed this on recent editions of Firefox: The window will expand to fill the whole screen, overlapping the taskbar at the bottom. It will stay like this for about 30 seconds to a minute. While this is going on, the whole computer is completely locked up. The cursor will spin, but clicking on any program does nothing.

Honestly sounds like you need to do a complete fresh reinstall of your OS.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on June 22, 2022, 10:38:59 PM
Also, with the death of Internet Explorer, Microsoft has made it so Edge is automatically running in the background on startup. You have to disable it from the startup items.

It took a half-hour to restart my computer because of this.

I haven't bothered to upgrade either of my computers to Windows 11 because of the horror stories I've heard from those trying to use browsers other than Edge with 11. I've tried Edge and I think it's crap.

I upgraded to Win 11 and use Firefox and haven't had any problems.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: ZLoth on June 23, 2022, 03:58:08 AM
The web was a different place in 2007-2009 when I learned a little bit of web development. Back then, I discovered I had fewer headaches if I did the initial development on Firefox (and the better free web development tools) which meant it should also be compatible with most of the non-Microsoft browsers, then adapt it to work with the Internet Explorer browsers including the bastard child Internet Explorer 6. After destroying Netscape Navigator, it had 95% of the browser market share, and Microsoft essentially stopped innovating that browser.

As for Microsoft Edge, it was initially built with Microsoft's own proprietary browser engine EdgeHTML and their Chakra JavaScript engine, but at the beginning of 2021, Microsoft switched to the Chromium-based enginer and the V8 JavaScript engine, much like Chrome, but with different bits added. Originally, Opera was also using the Presto engine, but around 2013, switched to the Chromium engine as well. And, with the rapid release model (along with Long Term Support versions), innovation comes more rapidly than the release schedules of the late 2000s.

Part of the challenge is in the IT world. I've seen too many instances where the decisions were based around the ideas that "IT is a business cost that must be minimized" and it's corollaries "it's still works. If it ain't broke, don't fix it" and "why pay for something this fiscal year when it can be pushed to next year's budget", and the ever-so-popular "if our sales people are in the classroom learning new process, they aren't in the field making money for the company". In some cases, there isn't a good replacement for that key piece of technology that is keeps the company running, and yet it's a discontinued product if not the vendor no longer existing.

I agree that Microsoft should tone it down when it comes to pushing the Microsoft Edge browser. At work, I use Firefox for work-related items while Chrome is for personal-related items. The plug-in support is better in Chrome and Firefox than in Edge. Having said that, it's still better than Apple's line of iToys and the lockdown on the Webkit-based engine on their mobile devices. Isn't this the same type of practice that Apple condemned Microsoft of doing 20 years ago?
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: vdeane on June 23, 2022, 01:07:11 PM
And, with the rapid release model (along with Long Term Support versions), innovation comes more rapidly than the release schedules of the late 200s.
Yeah, I don't think there was very much browser innovation during the days of the Roman Empire.  :D
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: ZLoth on June 23, 2022, 01:28:12 PM
And, with the rapid release model (along with Long Term Support versions), innovation comes more rapidly than the release schedules of the late 200s.
Yeah, I don't think there was very much browser innovation during the days of the Roman Empire.  :D

Plus, the response latency was much higher. (Yes, I just fixed it).
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: bing101 on June 25, 2022, 01:25:34 AM
I have not seen Internet Explorer since the time Geocities were the trendy thing in the 2000's.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: Stephane Dumas on June 25, 2022, 01:05:04 PM
I have not seen Internet Explorer since the time Geocities were the trendy thing in the 2000's.

Trendy thing in the 2000s, besides Geocites, let's also mention Hotmail, Mapquest, AOL, Prodigy, ICQ, Infoseek, Excite,... ;)
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: US 89 on June 25, 2022, 02:36:23 PM
I miss the days of printing out Mapquest directions before you went somewhere new.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: Stephane Dumas on June 26, 2022, 09:35:41 PM
I miss the days of printing out Mapquest directions before you went somewhere new.

Yeah, along with Yahoo maps! But I wonder if some also miss RealAudio/RealVideo, QuickTime, Napster, MySpace as well?
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: formulanone on June 27, 2022, 09:24:39 AM
I miss the days of printing out Mapquest directions before you went somewhere new.

My daughter's school-supplied Chromebook actually blocks Google Maps (go figure) when on their school Wi-Fi. I told her to check out Mapquest; sure enough, it wasn't restricted.

"Welcome to 1999!", I proclaimed.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: ZLoth on June 27, 2022, 09:32:05 AM
I miss the days of printing out Mapquest directions before you went somewhere new.

My daughter's school-supplied Chromebook actually blocks Google Maps (go figure) when on their school Wi-Fi. I told her to check out Mapquest; sure enough, it wasn't restricted.

Ahhh.... memories of Mapblast. Is Bing Maps or Open Street Map allowed?

Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: epzik8 on June 27, 2022, 01:03:20 PM
I used to be loyal to IE before finally giving in to the Chrome craze.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: formulanone on June 27, 2022, 02:14:34 PM
I miss the days of printing out Mapquest directions before you went somewhere new.

My daughter's school-supplied Chromebook actually blocks Google Maps (go figure) when on their school Wi-Fi. I told her to check out Mapquest; sure enough, it wasn't restricted.

Ahhh.... memories of Mapblast. Is Bing Maps or Open Street Map allowed?

I'll find out in case they block Mapquest...
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: Brandon on June 27, 2022, 02:36:19 PM
Thereís really only one thing to say about the demise of IEÖ

Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: kphoger on June 27, 2022, 03:25:40 PM
It isn't gone.  I'm using it right now.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: US71 on July 03, 2022, 02:06:53 PM
It isn't gone.  I'm using it right now.

But they have likely quit updating it.
Title: Re: RIP Internet Explorer
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 03, 2022, 02:15:53 PM
It isn't gone.  I'm using it right now.

But they have likely quit updating it.

I still use it at work.  That said, whenever I use email my browser now forces me to the jankier version of Outlook found in Edge.