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Author Topic: Massachusetts  (Read 407080 times)

PHLBOS

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1975 on: August 17, 2022, 09:47:06 PM »

Why was only the part of MA 25 between MA 24 and I-195 only upgraded to become I-495?

Wouldnít it have made more sense to extend I-495 the entire length of MA 25?
One thing to keep in mind.  Prior to 1988, MA 25 ended about 1 mile beyond I-195 in Wareham at US 6/MA 28.  When it was decided to have I-495 take over MA 25 from MA 24 to I-195 during the late 70s (after the extension between I-95 & MA 24 was completed circa 1982); many believed that the eastern extension of MA 25 to the Bourne Bridge would never happen.  How the extension would go through/around the cranberry bogs Grazing Fields Farm was the main issue that delayed the extension.  One early proposal that never came to fruition had MA 25 extend all the way to MA 3 in Plymouth.

Then I would extend I-195 to the Bourne Bridge, and have MA 25 replace MA 28 on the Cape from Falmouth to Orleans, signing it east-west.  Another route number could be used for MA 28 from Falmouth to the Bourne Bridge (signed north-south).

I would replace I-395 in CT/MA and I-290 with I-695, which would also eliminate the exit number/dual milepost confusion on I-290.  But what to do with I-190?  Give it a different route number, like I-595?  If it's a 3-di Interstate, it doesn't meet its parent.  Maybe assign it a new MA state route number.
While noteworthy, the above is clearly Fictional territory.  :biggrin: Nonetheless, if I-290/395 became I-695; I would simply redesignate I-190 as I-395.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2022, 08:31:21 PM by PHLBOS »
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Ted$8roadFan

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1976 on: August 17, 2022, 10:06:59 PM »

Why was only the part of MA 25 between MA 24 and I-195 only upgraded to become I-495?

Wouldnít it have made more sense to extend I-495 the entire length of MA 25?
One thing to keep in mind.  Prior to 1988, MA 25 ended about 1 mile beyond I-195 in Wareham at US 6/MA 28.  When it was decided to have I-495 take over MA 25 from MA 24 to I-195 during the late 70s (after the extension between I-95 & MA 24 was completed circa 1982); many believed that the eastern extension of MA 25 to the Bourne Bridge would never happen.  How the extension would go through/around the cranberry bogs was the main issue that delayed the extension.  One early proposal that never came to fruition had MA 25 extend all the way to MA 3 in Plymouth.

Then I would extend I-195 to the Bourne Bridge, and have MA 25 replace MA 28 on the Cape from Falmouth to Orleans, signing it east-west.  Another route number could be used for MA 28 from Falmouth to the Bourne Bridge (signed north-south).

I would replace I-395 in CT/MA and I-290 with I-695, which would also eliminate the exit number/dual milepost confusion on I-290.  But what to do with I-190?  Give it a different route number, like I-595?  If it's a 3-di Interstate, it doesn't meet its parent.  Maybe assign it a new MA state route number.
While noteworthy, the above is clearly Fictional territory.  :biggrin: Nonetheless, if I-290/395 became I-695; I would simply redesignate I-190 as I-395.

This is one reason why it took so long:

https://www.wgbh.org/news/2017/10/02/local-news/how-grazing-fields-farm-changed-how-we-build-highways
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pderocco

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1977 on: August 17, 2022, 10:53:40 PM »

Then I would extend I-195 to the Bourne Bridge, and have MA 25 replace MA 28 on the Cape from Falmouth to Orleans, signing it east-west.  Another route number could be used for MA 28 from Falmouth to the Bourne Bridge (signed north-south).

I give up: what would be gained by renumbering 28?
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SectorZ

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1978 on: August 18, 2022, 07:55:21 AM »

Then I would extend I-195 to the Bourne Bridge, and have MA 25 replace MA 28 on the Cape from Falmouth to Orleans, signing it east-west.  Another route number could be used for MA 28 from Falmouth to the Bourne Bridge (signed north-south).

I give up: what would be gained by renumbering 28?

Starting from US 6 in Orleans, the first ten miles of 28 go south, then the the next thirty or so go west, all while the route is telling you you're going north. It's a solid candidate for renumbering given that.
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wytout

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1979 on: August 18, 2022, 09:53:13 AM »

Does anyone know why there is concurrent mileage signing of I-395 and I-290 for I-290ís entire length, when the roads donít overlap?

https://flic.kr/p/2nF6w6R
« Last Edit: August 18, 2022, 09:55:21 AM by wytout »
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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1980 on: August 18, 2022, 10:17:37 AM »

Does anyone know why there is concurrent mileage signing of I-395 and I-290 for I-290ís entire length, when the roads donít overlap?

https://flic.kr/p/2nF6w6R

It was the only way MassDOT could continue I-395ís exit numbers in a mileage based system.  MassDOT wanted to continue the tradition.
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Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

vdeane

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1981 on: August 18, 2022, 12:56:46 PM »

^ I wouldn't say it's the only way.  I still don't get why they couldn't just have I-290 continue I-395's mileage.  It's not like there aren't plenty of other examples of such things around the country.  For a state that was willing to fudge numbers and not convert certain sections of roads, choosing this as the thing they wanted to be obstinate about is odd - especially since they still had to fudge I-395's mileage by a couple tenths of a mile or so to get it to line up with I-290's.

I wouldn't be surprised if the idea of absorbing I-290 into I-395 is already a done deal, and MassDOT just figured they needed to prime the pump a little to get the public to accept it.  It would explain why they decided to handle this in the most confusing way possible.
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SidS1045

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1982 on: August 18, 2022, 02:39:20 PM »

An "exhausted" sign structure came toppling down on I-190 SB this morning:
https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/highway-sign-worcester-190/?fbclid=IwAR3QQMyCudvp4sntwQoTdWuJ_eU-GdTq1b_xo8Sa5ynPJXj0titYR_qLjgI

They figured out why it came down.  The anchor bolts holding the upright to the concrete pad broke.  The failure prompted a review of all signs on 190, and they supposedly found one more they need to take down, for the same reason.
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PurdueBill

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1983 on: August 18, 2022, 04:15:11 PM »

^ I wouldn't say it's the only way.  I still don't get why they couldn't just have I-290 continue I-395's mileage.  It's not like there aren't plenty of other examples of such things around the country.  For a state that was willing to fudge numbers and not convert certain sections of roads, choosing this as the thing they wanted to be obstinate about is odd - especially since they still had to fudge I-395's mileage by a couple tenths of a mile or so to get it to line up with I-290's.

I wouldn't be surprised if the idea of absorbing I-290 into I-395 is already a done deal, and MassDOT just figured they needed to prime the pump a little to get the public to accept it.  It would explain why they decided to handle this in the most confusing way possible.

They indeed chose the worst of all the options.  290 could have begun at the state line (not unprecedented) so as to have the same mile posts as 395 all along, or 290 could just start at a nonzero mileage post (like I-17) but instead they did what they did.  It seems that eliminating 290 is probably the plan and it is being excruciatingly slow-walked.
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SectorZ

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1984 on: August 19, 2022, 07:44:40 AM »

https://www.wcvb.com/article/unprecedented-30-day-shutdown-of-mbtas-orange-line-begins-friday-night/40939102

Don't know if anyone outside of the state has heard of this news, but there will be road chaos around Boston for a month as the MBTA Orange Line goes into a complete shutdown ordered by the feds.
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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1985 on: August 19, 2022, 07:46:07 AM »

Are they replacing it with buses (as they typically do for closures on short segments) or not?
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Ted$8roadFan

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1986 on: August 19, 2022, 08:53:06 AM »

Are they replacing it with buses (as they typically do for closures on short segments) or not?

Shuttle buses are being used. But itís not necessarily easier because they will add to the already terrible congestion on local roads, and will add more time to peopleís commutes; riders and non-riders alike.
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SidS1045

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1987 on: August 22, 2022, 03:27:38 PM »

Are they replacing it with buses (as they typically do for closures on short segments) or not?

Shuttle buses are being used. But itís not necessarily easier because they will add to the already terrible congestion on local roads, and will add more time to peopleís commutes; riders and non-riders alike.

Shuttle buses are not the only remediations.  Anyone with an electronic fare card (usually used on subway lines) can get a free ride on commuter rail, some of whose routes parallel the Orange Line and even share a few stations.  Boston's Bikeshare system is offering free bicycle rentals for the time of the shutdown.  Some local roads that will handle the shuttle buses are being reconfigured with dedicated bus lanes.

But...alongside the Orange Line shutdown, the Green Line is being shuttered beginning today between Government Center and Union Square/Somerville, scheduled to reopen on the same day as the Orange Line (9/19).  That line serves much of the same geographic area as the Orange Line in Boston's northern suburbs.  The MBTA claims it needs the Green Line closure to complete the final leg of the extension into Medford.
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kramie13

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1988 on: August 22, 2022, 04:34:57 PM »

The MBTA claims it needs the Green Line closure to complete the final leg of the extension into Medford.

Does the MBTA really need to close the Government Center - Haymarket - North Station segment of the Green Line in order to extend it to Medford?  I don't think it does, since it's below ground.   If anyone knows why these Green Line stations (paralleling the Orange Line) are also shut down, that would be very useful to know.
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roadman

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1989 on: August 22, 2022, 10:36:55 PM »

The MBTA claims it needs the Green Line closure to complete the final leg of the extension into Medford.

Does the MBTA really need to close the Government Center - Haymarket - North Station segment of the Green Line in order to extend it to Medford?  I don't think it does, since it's below ground.   If anyone knows why these Green Line stations (paralleling the Orange Line) are also shut down, that would be very useful to know.

The reason they are shutting down the Government Center to North Station segment of the Green Line is so a contractor can finish demolishing the existing Government Center Garage, which sits above the Haymarket Green, Orange Line, and bus stations.  Because ot the location and structural makeup of the garage - parts of which impact the Green and Orange Line tunnels, they can't use traditional controlled demolition methods on the garage.  This is the same garage that a worker was killed at back on March 26th when a portion of the structure being removed fell underneath him.
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Ted$8roadFan

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1990 on: August 23, 2022, 05:24:34 AM »

The MBTA claims it needs the Green Line closure to complete the final leg of the extension into Medford.

Does the MBTA really need to close the Government Center - Haymarket - North Station segment of the Green Line in order to extend it to Medford?  I don't think it does, since it's below ground.   If anyone knows why these Green Line stations (paralleling the Orange Line) are also shut down, that would be very useful to know.

The reason they are shutting down the Government Center to North Station segment of the Green Line is so a contractor can finish demolishing the existing Government Center Garage, which sits above the Haymarket Green, Orange Line, and bus stations.  Because ot the location and structural makeup of the garage - parts of which impact the Green and Orange Line tunnels, they can't use traditional controlled demolition methods on the garage.  This is the same garage that a worker was killed at back on March 26th when a portion of the structure being removed fell underneath him.

IIRC, the T also closed those areas of the Green/Orange lines to inspect the tunnels nearest the Garage to check for damage. That was after the tragic death of the worker but before the decision to shut the affected lines.
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Ted$8roadFan

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1991 on: September 01, 2022, 01:33:08 PM »

This seems to happen every year around this time:

https://www.universalhub.com/2022/winna-winna-u-haul-dinna
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SidS1045

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1992 on: September 06, 2022, 03:22:30 PM »

This seems to happen every year around this time:

https://www.universalhub.com/2022/winna-winna-u-haul-dinna

Note the use of the term "storrowed" on the Universal Hub page.  Yes, it happens so often that they made the name of Storrow Drive into a verb.
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Ted$8roadFan

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1993 on: September 06, 2022, 04:08:29 PM »

This seems to happen every year around this time:

https://www.universalhub.com/2022/winna-winna-u-haul-dinna

Note the use of the term "storrowed" on the Universal Hub page.  Yes, it happens so often that they made the name of Storrow Drive into a verb.

Itís a rite of passage of sorts for the uninitiated, and now there;s this:

https://whdh.com/news/local-toy-company-makes-storrowed-inspired-toy-ornament/
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shadyjay

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1994 on: September 11, 2022, 06:39:06 PM »

So, Mass just can't seem to standardize on its state route shield reassurance markers.  I observed these on MA 16 near Webster/Douglas over the weekend:

20220910_120106 by Jay Hogan, on Flickr

Okay, well, this isn't terrible.  The large numerals is a little much.

But then, we get to this....

20220910_155818 by Jay Hogan, on Flickr

Now, I can see perhaps this being on a town road pointing the way to the state route, but in use as a reassurance shield right on a state route?  Now, that's just lazy!  And this isn't a one-off, either... there's another heading east.

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Rothman

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1995 on: September 11, 2022, 07:15:24 PM »

So, Mass just can't seem to standardize on its state route shield reassurance markers.  I observed these on MA 16 near Webster/Douglas over the weekend:

20220910_120106 by Jay Hogan, on Flickr

Okay, well, this isn't terrible.  The large numerals is a little much.

But then, we get to this....

20220910_155818 by Jay Hogan, on Flickr

Now, I can see perhaps this being on a town road pointing the way to the state route, but in use as a reassurance shield right on a state route?  Now, that's just lazy!  And this isn't a one-off, either... there's another heading east.
Meh.  Exceptions to the rule.
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Beeper1

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1996 on: September 11, 2022, 07:21:55 PM »

Those are town-installed assemblies.   Route 16 through Douglas and Webster is locally maintained and they both do a horrible job of signage.
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BlueOutback7

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1997 on: September 11, 2022, 07:43:21 PM »

There's a similar sign on Jefferson Ave in Salem approaching MA 1A.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5004337,-70.8977966,3a,37.5y,164.9h,87.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8jB0Q3pLKhEnJaWn9tRPQw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Also, what is up with this very bizarre MA 38 shield in Woburn? There's another leading south from I-95 too. Not sure if this one is town maintained as well.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5020757,-71.1584705,3a,75y,8.18h,90.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFFjeMQrxFYqCcDCbxXppIQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
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storm2k

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1998 on: September 12, 2022, 02:46:19 AM »

There's a similar sign on Jefferson Ave in Salem approaching MA 1A.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5004337,-70.8977966,3a,37.5y,164.9h,87.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8jB0Q3pLKhEnJaWn9tRPQw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Also, what is up with this very bizarre MA 38 shield in Woburn? There's another leading south from I-95 too. Not sure if this one is town maintained as well.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5020757,-71.1584705,3a,75y,8.18h,90.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFFjeMQrxFYqCcDCbxXppIQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

The Woburn one is def on a piece of roadway that is claimed to be state maintenance (there's a "Begin State Highway" sign a bit north of there going SB, which should include this bit of roadway), but I'm pretty sure that's just a contractor special that was done when that stretch of roadway into the Rotary at the 95 interchange was redone. If you look at the historic GSV back to 2007, those signs aren't there (for the one south of the 95 interchange, it has a much more standard issue MassDOT assembly than what's there now.
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Alps

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Re: Massachusetts
« Reply #1999 on: September 12, 2022, 08:35:43 PM »

There's a similar sign on Jefferson Ave in Salem approaching MA 1A.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5004337,-70.8977966,3a,37.5y,164.9h,87.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8jB0Q3pLKhEnJaWn9tRPQw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Also, what is up with this very bizarre MA 38 shield in Woburn? There's another leading south from I-95 too. Not sure if this one is town maintained as well.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5020757,-71.1584705,3a,75y,8.18h,90.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFFjeMQrxFYqCcDCbxXppIQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
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