News:

why is this up in the corner now

Main Menu

Stangest Traffic Lights

Started by tribar, March 25, 2015, 05:30:17 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

1995hoo

Not so much a strange "light" here as what I perceive as a strange configuration. When VDOT replaced the lights at this intersection to install a flashing yellow arrow, they relocated the signal heads for the thru lanes. Instead of all of them being up on the mast arm straight ahead of the lanes to which they correspond, they put one signal head sort of in between the thru lanes and the other on the pole to the right. Can't say I've ordinarily seen this sort of thing in Virginia (and notice in the current configuration the other direction retained a more standard setup, though perhaps that's because of the doghouse signal for the right-turn lane coming the other way).

Current setup: https://maps.app.goo.gl/EvuNLntuwaiv5VTSA

Prior setup from the doghouse left-turn signal era: https://maps.app.goo.gl/KPsMbRFx7DqCHxz59 (I suppose now, looking back, that the signal for the right lane was always placed a bit far to the left and they presumably just retained that when they replaced the lights in 2021.)

"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.


PColumbus73

Could there have been some weight problem with the mast arm?

Big John

Quote from: US 89 on September 17, 2024, 09:44:23 AMWhat was always weird to me when I lived in Tallahassee (90% horizontal signals) is that the arrangement of the horizontal 5-section signal head is different depending on whether it's for a right or left turn. The left turn arrangement is shown in jakeroot's above post, but the right turn one has the 3 lights on the left and arrows on the right.

The idea is to have the arrow on the corresponding side of the green light, which makes sense, but having the greens not in the same place does look a little weird (example).
That is MUTCD compliant. For the left turn, the lane is left of the through lanes, thus the arrows are left of the solid green light. For the right turn, the lane is right of the through lanes, thus the arrows right of the solid green.

jakeroot

Quote from: 1995hoo on September 17, 2024, 10:01:58 AMNot so much a strange "light" here as what I perceive as a strange configuration. When VDOT replaced the lights at this intersection to install a flashing yellow arrow, they relocated the signal heads for the thru lanes. Instead of all of them being up on the mast arm straight ahead of the lanes to which they correspond, they put one signal head sort of in between the thru lanes and the other on the pole to the right. Can't say I've ordinarily seen this sort of thing in Virginia (and notice in the current configuration the other direction retained a more standard setup, though perhaps that's because of the doghouse signal for the right-turn lane coming the other way).

Current setup: https://maps.app.goo.gl/EvuNLntuwaiv5VTSA

Prior setup from the doghouse left-turn signal era: https://maps.app.goo.gl/KPsMbRFx7DqCHxz59 (I suppose now, looking back, that the signal for the right lane was always placed a bit far to the left and they presumably just retained that when they replaced the lights in 2021.)

Good spot here. I've spent about 1% the amount of time in Virginia as you, but my whole time there (as a signal geek!) I never recall seeing this type of setup anywhere. Having a single primary signal head overhead, and the second primary signal head on the signal mast, is very common in California, and previously common in Wisconsin and Nevada, and maybe New Jersey. But definitely not in Virginia.

Back in my home town, around the mid-2010s, several signals were installed with the second primary signal being on the signal mast, even with two through lanes. (example one, example two, example three, example four, example five). This was intentional, as the engineer in charge was basically emulating the California standards (this is in WA), where overhead signals are always "through lanes-minus-one", with the "minus one" signal being on the signal mast or nearby pole. They eventually went to "signal per lane" but have continued installing pole-mounted supplemental signals, they just aren't the primary signals anymore.

As a side note, once again Virginia coming in clutch with needlessly-long mast arms. Even after installing a dedicated left turn signal, there's about a mile of extra metal sticking out. WTF.

mrsman

I feel that the old CA standards were sufficient.  Enough signal faces for traffic to be able to see the signal face.  Signal faces at different heights so that at least one would not be blocked by a truck or bus from your point of view.  And (which aren't shown in the examples above) a left corner left turn signal (or a repeat of the RYG where there are no arrows) so that traffic will look at the signal towards the possibility of any crossing pedestrians when making a left turn.

It is certainly weird to see these standards in places like VA, but I don't disapprove.

SignBridge

Quote from: mrsman on September 20, 2024, 05:12:27 PMI feel that the old CA standards were sufficient.  Enough signal faces for traffic to be able to see the signal face.  Signal faces at different heights so that at least one would not be blocked by a truck or bus from your point of view.  And (which aren't shown in the examples above) a left corner left turn signal (or a repeat of the RYG where there are no arrows) so that traffic will look at the signal towards the possibility of any crossing pedestrians when making a left turn.

It is certainly weird to see these standards in places like VA, but I don't disapprove.

I agree with mrsman. California has always done it the best for all the reasons cited. They are the benchmark.

PColumbus73

Quote from: SignBridge on September 20, 2024, 07:32:37 PM
Quote from: mrsman on September 20, 2024, 05:12:27 PMI feel that the old CA standards were sufficient.  Enough signal faces for traffic to be able to see the signal face.  Signal faces at different heights so that at least one would not be blocked by a truck or bus from your point of view.  And (which aren't shown in the examples above) a left corner left turn signal (or a repeat of the RYG where there are no arrows) so that traffic will look at the signal towards the possibility of any crossing pedestrians when making a left turn.

It is certainly weird to see these standards in places like VA, but I don't disapprove.

I agree with mrsman. California has always done it the best for all the reasons cited. They are the benchmark.

I like California's mix of 8" & 12" heads prior to going to mostly 12", the oversized backplates on the 8" heads are quintessential California.

Outside of CA, I think Illinois and Wisconsin are pretty good with supplemental heads. I feel like post-mounted signals should be a standard for left turns, especially for wide medians.

Not to mention I always try to look for a cluster of post-mounted 5-section towers, there's something about them I like.

roadfro

Quote from: 1995hoo on September 17, 2024, 10:01:58 AMNot so much a strange "light" here as what I perceive as a strange configuration. When VDOT replaced the lights at this intersection to install a flashing yellow arrow, they relocated the signal heads for the thru lanes. Instead of all of them being up on the mast arm straight ahead of the lanes to which they correspond, they put one signal head sort of in between the thru lanes and the other on the pole to the right. Can't say I've ordinarily seen this sort of thing in Virginia (and notice in the current configuration the other direction retained a more standard setup, though perhaps that's because of the doghouse signal for the right-turn lane coming the other way).

Current setup: https://maps.app.goo.gl/EvuNLntuwaiv5VTSA

Prior setup from the doghouse left-turn signal era: https://maps.app.goo.gl/KPsMbRFx7DqCHxz59 (I suppose now, looking back, that the signal for the right lane was always placed a bit far to the left and they presumably just retained that when they replaced the lights in 2021.)
Yeah, looks to me like they didn't change the through signal head at all...it appears to be aligned with the lane line in both configurations. But to get the minimum primary signal heads for the through movement with removal of the doghouse, adding the second through signal on the mast arm was the easiest option. Otherwise, the existing head would likely have needed to be repositioned if both primary signal heads were to be mounted overhead.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

mrsman

Quote from: PColumbus73 on September 21, 2024, 09:05:08 AM
Quote from: SignBridge on September 20, 2024, 07:32:37 PM
Quote from: mrsman on September 20, 2024, 05:12:27 PMI feel that the old CA standards were sufficient.  Enough signal faces for traffic to be able to see the signal face.  Signal faces at different heights so that at least one would not be blocked by a truck or bus from your point of view.  And (which aren't shown in the examples above) a left corner left turn signal (or a repeat of the RYG where there are no arrows) so that traffic will look at the signal towards the possibility of any crossing pedestrians when making a left turn.

It is certainly weird to see these standards in places like VA, but I don't disapprove.

I agree with mrsman. California has always done it the best for all the reasons cited. They are the benchmark.

I like California's mix of 8" & 12" heads prior to going to mostly 12", the oversized backplates on the 8" heads are quintessential California.

Outside of CA, I think Illinois and Wisconsin are pretty good with supplemental heads. I feel like post-mounted signals should be a standard for left turns, especially for wide medians.

Not to mention I always try to look for a cluster of post-mounted 5-section towers, there's something about them I like.

One of my favorite examples of CA signaling is at Olympic and Prosser in West Los Angeles:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.048128,-118.4246543,3a,75y,245.32h,80.6t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYsvHsrfCShnWMTTuUsmU9g!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D9.398333875481654%26panoid%3DYsvHsrfCShnWMTTuUsmU9g%26yaw%3D245.32345538483014!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkxOC4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

This signal has been there for a very long time.  Yes, many years ago, all of the signal faces, except the signal faces on the mast arm, were 8" signal heads.  (Some of the older street views show this for the Olympic facing signals but all of the signals facing Prosser have 12" heads, even from 15 years ago).

But count how many lanes there are on Olympic.  Eastbound 2 lanes of traffic, a left turn lane, and a curb lane that prohibits parking 7am - 7pm Mon-Fri (and is essentially free of parked cars and operates like a full-time traffic lane). (4 lanes of cars facing the 3 signal faces).  Westbound 3 lanes of traffic, a left turn lane, and a curb lane that prohibits parking 3pm - 7pm Mon-Fri (and is essentially free of parked cars and operates like a full-time traffic lane). (5 lanes of cars facing the 3 signal faces).

In comparison to AZ and NV that have largely similar practices, but they have also adopted 1 signal face per lane and many of their intersections feel like there are just too many signal faces, beyond what is reasonably needed.  This is overdone!

Phoenix:

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4950501,-112.0999377,3a,75y,268.91h,83.09t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sdTIppH1Shjms4MWAPI9uQQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D6.911895497745348%26panoid%3DdTIppH1Shjms4MWAPI9uQQ%26yaw%3D268.91244560984677!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkxOC4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Las Vegas:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1297672,-115.1186201,3a,75y,164.95h,80.21t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1ssHex-LkcCaT0FPafFT0idQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D9.787298807563573%26panoid%3DsHex-LkcCaT0FPafFT0idQ%26yaw%3D164.94919517859802!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkxOC4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D






andrepoiy

#359
Similar to California, Ontario also usually has few signals for massive intersections.



https://maps.app.goo.gl/HxLM3oX994HXkGQj7



https://maps.app.goo.gl/XmZZyQMyiaL3HGsb9



jakeroot

Quote from: andrepoiy on September 22, 2024, 05:34:11 PMSimilar to California, Ontario also usually has few signals for massive intersections.

clipped

I think Ontario is actually quite a bit more like Japan, where even huge intersections only have a couple (maybe three) signals, and they're all overhead and usually only a lane-length away from the curb-edge (as opposed to centered over the lane of travel).


Rycom Intersection Chatan by Jacob Root, on Flickr


Meijibashi Intersection Okinawa by Jacob Root, on Flickr


Tsukiguma JCT Fukuoka by Jacob Root, on Flickr


hwyfan

#362
Here is one that formerly stood in the median of the A39 at the junction with the B3135 in Green Ore, Wells, United Kingdom until being replaced a few years ago.   It had five seperate signal heads mounted to a single pole.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/TiYuy3yxM6Dca8kx6


jakeroot

Quote from: PColumbus73 on September 24, 2024, 08:40:29 AMhttps://www.google.com/maps/@35.6931701,139.6974772,3a,15y,239.95h,102.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2DDOwSELgN_I28bJpyzgVg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkyMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

There's this signal I found in Shinjuku / Tokyo that reminds me of an Econolite Buttonback with older McCain visors
...

Interesting you'd link to this intersection. I had previously noted it before (using a Google Maps saved location) as a rare intersection in Japan with several post-mounted signals. Japan rarely, rarely uses post-mounted signals, almost everything is overhead and horizontal, but that intersection (Shintoshin Footbridge Intersection) has several, which is very rare. It tells me that it's an old intersection if anything, which means those signals are also likely a fair number of years old, too.

I've been trying my best to track down Japanese signal manufacturers. There's at least two. Let me do some research and I'll see if I can find out who made this signal and when. All signals in Japan have manufacturer stickers on the rear of the green lens (including install date, manufacture date, serial numbers, etc.) but of course it's too hard to read through GSV.

Of note to anyone who doesn't know much about Japanese signals: the lenses are 10 inches (250mm) in diameter.

freebrickproductions

Quote from: jakeroot on September 29, 2024, 07:06:52 PMI've been trying my best to track down Japanese signal manufacturers. There's at least two. Let me do some research and I'll see if I can find out who made this signal and when. All signals in Japan have manufacturer stickers on the rear of the green lens (including install date, manufacture date, serial numbers, etc.) but of course it's too hard to read through GSV.

I know there's a Japanese signal collector/enthusiast over on Highway Divides who you might be able to get in touch with for info about Japanese manufacturers.
It's all fun & games until someone summons Cthulhu and brings about the end of the world.

I also collect traffic lights, road signs, fans, and railroad crossing equipment.

(They/Them)



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.