"Freeway Entrance" signage

[deathtopumpkins]

West Virginia posts quite frequently, not just once or twice.

Most of the states in the "at least one" category have more than just one or two. That's why it's "at least one" and not "only one or two".

I suppose I could split that category as Jake suggested. Any others to move to the "frequent but not consistent" category?


Uses standalone freeway entrance signs consistently:

• Washington
• Montana

Uses freeway entrance signs with shields consistently:

• California (freeway/parkway)
• Nevada

Uses custom equivalent signs:

• New Jersey (parkway entrance)

Uses freeway entrance signs frequently but not consistently:

• Utah (freeway/parkway)
• Illinois (with downward arrows)
• West Virginia
• Minnesota

Has at least one use of a standard freeway entrance sign:

• Michigan
• Colorado (with shields)
• Oregon
• New Mexico
• New York (freeway/parkway)
• North Carolina (with shields)
• Texas
• Connecticut (with shields)
• British Columbia
• Wisconsin

Other weird one-offs:

• Massachusetts (BGS)
• Indiana (overhead, mixed-case, with shields)

Uses shields with downward arrows, but no freeway entrance sign:

• Ohio

[jakeroot]

Looking good to me.

I originally suggested Minnesota for the "frequent but not consistent" category because of the multiple uses along I-35 that all appear fairly new, but if only a handful actually exist it may not qualify for even the "frequent" category. Someone with more experience in Minnesota should chime in to better determine actual frequency of the sign.

Within ten years, I'd say Utah could be in the "consistent" category, but there's still too many old interchanges and new SPUIs without the sign for it to really qualify as a "consistent" user. I did check some even newer SPUIs (I-15 @ Hill Field Road, Layton) and these still do not have them, although some older ones do (especially in the southern areas of SLC). Interestingly, most of these SPUIs do include shields with arrows to highlight that they are a freeway on-ramp, they just exclude the actual "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" sign. But this newer SPUI in Layton doesn't even have those shields, so I have no idea what UDOT's game plan is here. Certainly not consistent enough right now for it to qualify for the top two categories.

With that in mind, West Virginia might qualify for "consistent" if all new interchanges include the signs and many old ones do as well. I think "consistent" should include those states where most interchanges include the signs, especially if the DOT responsible is using them consistently now and has doing so for quite a while (10+ years ideally).

[kphoger]

I originally suggested Minnesota for the "frequent but not consistent" category because of the multiple uses along I-35 that all appear fairly new, but if only a handful actually exist it may not qualify for even the "frequent" category. Someone with more experience in Minnesota should chime in to better determine actual frequency of the sign.

I agree that it isn't actually frequent in MN.  But I decided against suggesting the change because you can only change a state's status so many times before it gets dropped from the Union.

So thank you for suggesting it instead, I guess.

[jakeroot]

I originally suggested Minnesota for the "frequent but not consistent" category because of the multiple uses along I-35 that all appear fairly new, but if only a handful actually exist it may not qualify for even the "frequent" category. Someone with more experience in Minnesota should chime in to better determine actual frequency of the sign.

I agree that it isn't actually frequent in MN.  But I decided against suggesting the change because you can only change a state's status so many times before it gets dropped from the Union.

So thank you for suggesting it instead, I guess.

I'm fine with including it there as long as new interchanges also include the sign. Is this the case? If not, it probably shouldn't go in there.

For the record, it only ended up in the "frequent" category because I suggested it before, and I don't think deathtopumpkins knew any better. Truth is that I don't really know any better than him either.

[kphoger]

I don't know of any others, but we'd better let someone who actually lives there chime in.

[ilpt4u]

3 things I am noticing in Illinois with the downstate signs is...
1) Usually at the entrance to folded diamonds like this at Route 1 onto I-64.
2) They are only facing the direction where the driver needs to make a left turn onto the ramp.
3) Huge ass sign.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.2355144,-88.0011521,3a,75y,0.28h,77.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBX_N4xhr92tj3EGL9Sh3UQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

My favorite IDOT one I have found is up in Belvidere/D2, for a Folded Diamond Interchange entrance to US 20 from Appleton Rd, which is NOT a freeway on this segment: https://goo.gl/maps/gCHfw9J7kEURz4jU9

Outside of D1, IDOT is pretty consistent, posting these signs at Folded Diamonds and even some RIROs

For a RIRO example in East St Louis: https://goo.gl/maps/U3iYGCTZNwJPHDvU7

[deathtopumpkins]

For the record, it only ended up in the "frequent" category because I suggested it before, and I don't think deathtopumpkins knew any better. Truth is that I don't really know any better than him either.

Yes, this exactly. I have never been to Minnesota (although that will change in about 3 weeks), and checking a few random interchanges on streetview didn't turn any up. I'm personally inclined to go with the "at least one" category, but I'll let someone more familiar with MN chime in.

[ethanhopkin14]

The question would be, what states use the California assembly?  That being "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" sign above the route's cardinal direction, above the route shield and above a down arrow?

[jakeroot]

The question would be, what states use the California assembly?  That being "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" sign above the route's cardinal direction, above the route shield and above a down arrow?

Just Nevada, at least consistently (note the prior listing puts them together). WA has some examples of this but it's not the norm. I think Utah has some assemblies like them too but again, not the norm.

[ethanhopkin14]

The question would be, what states use the California assembly?  That being "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" sign above the route's cardinal direction, above the route shield and above a down arrow?

Just Nevada, at least consistently (note the prior listing puts them together). WA has some examples of this but it's not the norm. I think Utah has some assemblies like them too but again, not the norm.

I was thinking any examples in any states being the entire California setup.  New Mexico has a few on I-25 in Albuquerque, but definitely not the norm, but I think it would still go on the list. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1522318,-106.5905008,3a,75y,182.82h,82.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSl1-zScxRQ85CUNYa0erTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1587542,-106.5879193,3a,39.3y,173.05h,83.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7zIarbfsFTtVJHAdy7huEg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1828202,-106.5823644,3a,15.2y,172.56h,90.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shCKe-6xUQo51KMfFWx7Qyw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[jakeroot]

The question would be, what states use the California assembly?  That being "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" sign above the route's cardinal direction, above the route shield and above a down arrow?

Just Nevada, at least consistently (note the prior listing puts them together). WA has some examples of this but it's not the norm. I think Utah has some assemblies like them too but again, not the norm.

I was thinking any examples in any states being the entire California setup.  New Mexico has a few on I-25 in Albuquerque, but definitely not the norm, but I think it would still go on the list. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1522318,-106.5905008,3a,75y,182.82h,82.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSl1-zScxRQ85CUNYa0erTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1587542,-106.5879193,3a,39.3y,173.05h,83.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7zIarbfsFTtVJHAdy7huEg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1828202,-106.5823644,3a,15.2y,172.56h,90.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shCKe-6xUQo51KMfFWx7Qyw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

That was my point. Nevada is the only state that consistently uses "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" with a shield assembly. WA a couple examples somewhere (this is more typical, with the two being adjacent rather than a single assembly), and UT has some too (if I recall correctly), and maybe WV as well, but Nevada is the only consistent one.

Those NM examples are interesting though. I see that NM is on the list of states that have used the sign, but those are definitely more CA-style than not.

[jakeroot]

One other category that might be worthwhile would be for those states that use shield assemblies frequently but without "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" signs.

For example, the vast majority of on-ramps in Arizona are marked with a shield assembly and arrow, eg: "NORTH LOOP 101 [arrow]".

This misses the mark in that the thread is about "freeway entrance" signage, which these examples clearly do not possess, but they are however in the same spirit, even if they do not directly state "freeway entrance".

example:

Uses shield assemblies without freeway entrance signage:

• Arizona

Another category would be those states that do absolutely nothing. Not sure which those are (by and large, Oregon), but it would be those states that put up an assembly to point you towards an on-ramp, but the on-ramp itself has no signage beyond "XXX prohibited...".

[ethanhopkin14]

One other category that might be worthwhile would be for those states that use shield assemblies frequently but without "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" signs.

For example, the vast majority of on-ramps in Arizona are marked with a shield assembly and arrow, eg: "NORTH LOOP 101 [arrow]".

This misses the mark in that the thread is about "freeway entrance" signage, which these examples clearly do not possess, but they are however in the same spirit, even if they do not directly state "freeway entrance".

example:

Uses shield assemblies without freeway entrance signage:

• Arizona

Another category would be those states that do absolutely nothing. Not sure which those are (by and large, Oregon), but it would be those states that put up an assembly to point you towards an on-ramp, but the on-ramp itself has no signage beyond "XXX prohibited...".

I remembered I-8 having "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" signs with full California style assemblies in Yuma, AZ.  I scoured google maps street view for one and can't find it.  I seem to be recalling from a trip in 2001, so maybe it predates even this street view picture:

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.6693464,-114.4097049,3a,36.7y,72.62h,92.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szDHP3SPFuGp8wv34wwUnYw!2e0!7i3328!8i1664

[jakeroot]

I remembered I-8 having "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" signs with full California style assemblies in Yuma, AZ.  I scoured google maps street view for one and can't find it.  I seem to be recalling from a trip in 2001, so maybe it predates even this street view picture:

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.6693464,-114.4097049,3a,36.7y,72.62h,92.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szDHP3SPFuGp8wv34wwUnYw!2e0!7i3328!8i1664

Given its proximity to California and Nevada, it would not surprise me if a "freeway entrance" sign slipped across the state line at some point. The fact that they don't use the sign is actually quite surprising to me, given how many other aspects of highway design in Arizona seem to have been inspired by California.

Another surprise is Oregon, where no signage is the norm despite being almost surrounded completely by states that use at least something (WA with 'freeway entrance' signs plus CA and NV with those and shields (plus arrows)). Idaho being the one holdout.

[deathtopumpkins]

One other category that might be worthwhile would be for those states that use shield assemblies frequently but without "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" signs.

For example, the vast majority of on-ramps in Arizona are marked with a shield assembly and arrow, eg: "NORTH LOOP 101 [arrow]".

This misses the mark in that the thread is about "freeway entrance" signage, which these examples clearly do not possess, but they are however in the same spirit, even if they do not directly state "freeway entrance".

example:

Uses shield assemblies without freeway entrance signage:

• Arizona

Another category would be those states that do absolutely nothing. Not sure which those are (by and large, Oregon), but it would be those states that put up an assembly to point you towards an on-ramp, but the on-ramp itself has no signage beyond "XXX prohibited...".

I actually already included a category like you describe. It's the last one, and only had Ohio in it. However, I wouldn't include the Arizona example you link to, because that's just a directional sign pointing to a turn, like you'd find in pretty much any state. It's not anything specific to this being a freeway entrance. Ohio gets that category because of the downward arrows, which are pretty unique.

I'm disinclined to move NM or WA into the CA-esque category for a similar reason. Those freeway entrance signs are just being posted next to or along with with a normal directional sign, and I'm interested in this concept as it is distinct from using normal directional signs, be them guide signs or shield assemblies.

[US 89]

The question would be, what states use the California assembly?  That being "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" sign above the route's cardinal direction, above the route shield and above a down arrow?

Just Nevada, at least consistently (note the prior listing puts them together). WA has some examples of this but it's not the norm. I think Utah has some assemblies like them too but again, not the norm.

I was thinking any examples in any states being the entire California setup.  New Mexico has a few on I-25 in Albuquerque, but definitely not the norm, but I think it would still go on the list. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1522318,-106.5905008,3a,75y,182.82h,82.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSl1-zScxRQ85CUNYa0erTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1587542,-106.5879193,3a,39.3y,173.05h,83.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7zIarbfsFTtVJHAdy7huEg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1828202,-106.5823644,3a,15.2y,172.56h,90.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shCKe-6xUQo51KMfFWx7Qyw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

That was my point. Nevada is the only state that consistently uses "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" with a shield assembly. WA a couple examples somewhere (this is more typical, with the two being adjacent rather than a single assembly), and UT has some too (if I recall correctly), and maybe WV as well, but Nevada is the only consistent one.

Those NM examples are interesting though. I see that NM is on the list of states that have used the sign, but those are definitely more CA-style than not.

Where does Utah use full shield assemblies?

[jakeroot]

I actually already included a category like you describe. It's the last one, and only had Ohio in it. However, I wouldn't include the Arizona example you link to, because that's just a directional sign pointing to a turn, like you'd find in pretty much any state. It's not anything specific to this being a freeway entrance. Ohio gets that category because of the downward arrows, which are pretty unique.

I'm disinclined to move NM or WA into the CA-esque category for a similar reason. Those freeway entrance signs are just being posted next to or along with with a normal directional sign, and I'm interested in this concept as it is distinct from using normal directional signs, be them guide signs or shield assemblies.

I did not see that one before. Thank you.

My idea with mentioning Arizona wasn't that they necessarily emulated California's design 100%, with down arrows and shields only on the on-ramp, but they use shield assemblies at every on-ramp. I don't think this is like every state; many that I've seen do little more than mention the turn using shield assemblies nowhere near the entrance to the on-ramp; this is standard in Oregon and Idaho, for example. Arizona uses shields at pretty much every on-ramp, but does not use down arrows like California, preferring to use arrows that point more in the direction of the turn.

Nevertheless, I see your point in not trying to include Arizona for this reason, since although they may be unique in being closer in placement to California than most places (placing the shield assemblies very close to the on-ramp or at the on-ramp itself), they are really not at all like California and more like most other states in that they are just mentioning that this road leads to "I-10" or "Loop 101" using signs and shields.

I would definitely agree in not using putting NM or WA into the California category. WA largely does not use shields at the on-ramps. Typical design is for a BGS approaching the interchange showing you that you have to turn left or right or whatever, and then "freeway entrance" signs at the actual on-ramp. NM doesn't appear to use "freeway entrance" signs much at all anyways, so they definitely shouldn't be in the same category as CA, even if all their examples do have a design closer to that of California.

[jakeroot]

Where does Utah use full shield assemblies?

They seem to be mostly at SPUIs:

W 1200 S @ I-15: https://goo.gl/maps/QGay9S9UHM7UBNje8
W Center St @ I-15: https://goo.gl/maps/ZahJA2xt7Dtfqhct9
W 400 S @ I-15: https://goo.gl/maps/NJNPMHGJxgLCQD1f6

They are nothing more than directional assemblies, but they are placed at the on-ramp in the exact same place that California would, though with an up arrow and no 'freeway entrance' sign.

[US 89]

Where does Utah use full shield assemblies?

They seem to be mostly at SPUIs:

W 1200 S @ I-15: https://goo.gl/maps/QGay9S9UHM7UBNje8
W Center St @ I-15: https://goo.gl/maps/ZahJA2xt7Dtfqhct9
W 400 S @ I-15: https://goo.gl/maps/NJNPMHGJxgLCQD1f6

They are nothing more than directional assemblies, but they are placed at the on-ramp in the exact same place that California would, though with an up arrow and no 'freeway entrance' sign.

Oh, just those. I thought you meant including a "freeway entrance" sign. Yeah, those are pretty common at SPUIs throughout the state.

[ethanhopkin14]

Where does Texas fit in all this?  Since Texas is a very heavy frontage road state, and it took me a very long time to understand that Texas' freeways are not the norm, I am very desensitized to on-ramp signage and if it's a big deal or not because these are on every freeway you drive on in Texas:

https://goo.gl/maps/5KmvFn6xiDbSAfZL9

Always one before and one at the gore.  Albeit pointing up instead of down, but this setup seems to be gaining traction on this thread. 

[jakeroot]

Where does Utah use full shield assemblies?

They seem to be mostly at SPUIs:

W 1200 S @ I-15: https://goo.gl/maps/QGay9S9UHM7UBNje8
W Center St @ I-15: https://goo.gl/maps/ZahJA2xt7Dtfqhct9
W 400 S @ I-15: https://goo.gl/maps/NJNPMHGJxgLCQD1f6

They are nothing more than directional assemblies, but they are placed at the on-ramp in the exact same place that California would, though with an up arrow and no 'freeway entrance' sign.

Oh, just those. I thought you meant including a "freeway entrance" sign. Yeah, those are pretty common at SPUIs throughout the state.

I re-read my post. You were right, that is what I meant. D'oh!!

I'm convinced every state that somewhat regularly uses Freeway Entrance signage has at least one example where it was combined with a shield assembly. I thought on GSV that I had seen such a combination in Utah, but perhaps not. Especially if you can't regularly think of one.

Washington, as I mentioned before, has some that get very close, like the Bellevue example I linked to. But neither that one, nor perhaps any other, are true CA-esque assemblies with down arrow and piecemeal placement (LGSs seem preferred in WA).

[Alex]

Reviewing this thread while preparing an email to a contact at FDOT working on wrong-way driving solutions, Florida has already implemented the shields with downward arrows around the state. So it could be added with Arizona and Ohio. This list is very helpful in determining what states use the actual freeway entrance signs. Florida continues to have major issues with wrong-way drivers, so adding these with the downward arrow based shields might be an option for them consider.

Some Florida examples:

Uses standalone freeway entrance signs consistently:

• Washington
• Montana

Uses freeway entrance signs with shields consistently:

• California (freeway/parkway)
• Nevada

Uses custom equivalent signs:

• New Jersey (parkway entrance)

Uses freeway entrance signs frequently but not consistently:

• Utah (freeway/parkway)
• Illinois (with downward arrows)
• West Virginia
• Minnesota

Has at least one use of a standard freeway entrance sign:

• Michigan
• Colorado (with shields)
• Oregon
• New Mexico
• New York (freeway/parkway)
• North Carolina (with shields)
• Texas
• Connecticut (with shields)
• British Columbia
• Wisconsin

Other weird one-offs:

• Massachusetts (BGS)
• Indiana (overhead, mixed-case, with shields)

Uses shields with downward arrows, but no freeway entrance sign:

• Ohio

[ran4sh]

I've always thought that Freeway Entrance signs would be more useful if they included the interchange ("exit") number for that location. I.e. at a standard diamond ramp that is exit 25, the signs would have the text "Freeway Entrance" along with the number 25.

Similar to how turnpikes used to have signs saying which interchange number you are entering from. It seems obvious enough that I think the lack of exit numbers in CA when the standards were designed, contributes to why numbering was never part of the design.

[kphoger]

I've always thought that Freeway Entrance signs would be more useful if they included the interchange ("exit") number for that location. I.e. at a standard diamond ramp that is exit 25, the signs would have the text "Freeway Entrance" along with the number 25.

Similar to how turnpikes used to have signs saying which interchange number you are entering from. It seems obvious enough that I think the lack of exit numbers in CA when the standards were designed, contributes to why numbering was never part of the design.

What's useful about knowing what the cross-highway's exit number is?

[hotdogPi]

I've always thought that Freeway Entrance signs would be more useful if they included the interchange ("exit") number for that location. I.e. at a standard diamond ramp that is exit 25, the signs would have the text "Freeway Entrance" along with the number 25.

Similar to how turnpikes used to have signs saying which interchange number you are entering from. It seems obvious enough that I think the lack of exit numbers in CA when the standards were designed, contributes to why numbering was never part of the design.

What's useful about knowing what the cross-highway's exit number is?

It was probably more useful during the sequential days, when if you were told to get off at Exit 7, it would be useful to know where you got on to know whether your exit is next or far away. Now, you can just look at the mile markers.