New HAWK Signals Confusing Drivers in Grapevine

Started by Brian556, September 12, 2020, 06:36:04 PM

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Brian556

Update: Grapevine has installed explanation signs on the Hawks. Drivers are still confused as ever, though. They keep stopping when there is no indication, and I even saw one just remain stopped when all lights turned off.


DSC_0025 by Brian Kosich, on Flickr[/url]

Also, got a pic of the single-headed Hawk in Haslet on Schoolhouse Rd (Old FM 156)

10.30.2020.Haslet.Hawk.Old.156 by Brian Kosich, on Flickr[/url]


mrsman

Quote from: jakeroot on September 17, 2020, 07:16:53 PM
Quote from: mrsman on September 17, 2020, 06:10:38 PML.A.'s setup is similar except without step 3.  The red is always flashing.

I finally found a video demonstrating this.  Here is the great Fairfax Avenue with a ped xing signal mid-block between Rosewood and Oakwood.  I recommend a larger screen.

Start at 2:35. As you cross Rosewood, look into the distance at the next signal going from green to yellow to flashing red.  The driver on video reaches the cross-walk, stops and proceeds after pedestrians clear while it is still flashing red.  Watch until 3:08.

While I would put in place a brief solid red before the flash, this is the best implementation of a mid-block crossing that I have seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObaoAUM0HO0

This, to me, is the best mid-block crossing design anywhere in the US:

* regular RYG traffic lights (seen throughout the US and the world)
* green when not in use (no dark phase which is supposed to mean 'stop')
* single flashing red orb has universal understanding
* just as efficient as a HAWK
* no explanatory signage needed

WHY IS THIS NOT THE STANDARD MIDBLOCK CROSSING DESIGN!!?!!!?!?!?!?!?!

Better yet, why am I reading stories about LADOT adopting the HAWK signal? I'm getting PTSD over here. HAWKs improve safety over a yield crossing. I would love to see data comparing them to the standard LADOT signalized crossing.

Apologies for posting on an old thread and for quoting myself, but I have found a more recent video showing the L.A. midblock crossing signal.  This time, there is a considerable solid red phase before the flashing red.  This is definitely an improvement for safety.  The solid red is at least somewhat HAWK-like, while maintaining the main difference between this signal and HAWKS:  The L.A. signal is based on a RYG signal, but does provide for a flashing red phase so that traffic is not stuck if fast pedestrians have already cleared the crossing.


As an added bonus, this is a video of a driverless Waymo "taxi" car - so the whole video is interesting on those aspects, but the L.A. pedestrian signal begins at: 6:20.  First Street between Central and San Pedro in Downtown's Little Tokyo area.

There is another more traditional flashing red pedestrian signal at Grand Ave near the Broad Museum at: 3:20.  No solid red phase, only flashing red.  I don't know if there are eventual plans to update more of these signals to be like the one in Little Tokyo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW7s-YPbNc4

The whole video of the Waymo driving around Downtown LA is only 8 minutes long.

PColumbus73

I do also wonder why there was a need to go from a RYG signal (which appears to be used everywhere else in the world) to a HAWK signal? The HAWKs have been around for a few years and drivers still seem to not understand them, so would it be possible they get discontinued in the future?

Not being from LA, I could understand the FR-Y-G signal instantly.

I think a fault with the HAWKs is that there are four (or five) modes across two signal heads.

The solid/flashing red share a head and the solid/flashing yellow share a head, adding the dark phase for when the signal isn't in use adds another wrinkle. A pedestrian would also have to wait for the signal to flash yellow, or 'wake up' before even going solid yellow. With the RYG, the signal is already active, so it can just go to yellow.

Then, transitioning from solid red to flashing red, the flashing red alternates similar to a railroad crossing signal in some (if not all) cases.

Muddling existing conventions for traffic lights seem to be working against it. I think if they wanted to keep the red/yellow design it could work something like:

(SR)
(FR)
(SY)
(FY)



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