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Author Topic: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs  (Read 17187 times)

TheStranger

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #100 on: March 17, 2022, 06:13:26 PM »

The MUTCD requires exit numbers on all freeways, full stop. So eventually Caltrans will be required to add them, the same way they were obliged to fix the exit tabs. It's only a matter of when FHWA decides to show their teeth on that particular provision of the MUTCD.

Isn't like 85% of California's freeway system already covered under exit numbering though? (after 21 years of the CalNEXUS program)

That's higher than other states that only number exits off Interstates and major freeways for instance.  Not perfect, but I don't know if CalTrans will ever prioritize this beyond what they are already doing.
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Chris Sampang

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #101 on: March 17, 2022, 08:49:09 PM »

The MUTCD requires exit numbers on all freeways, full stop. So eventually Caltrans will be required to add them, the same way they were obliged to fix the exit tabs. It's only a matter of when FHWA decides to show their teeth on that particular provision of the MUTCD.

Isn't like 85% of California's freeway system already covered under exit numbering though? (after 21 years of the CalNEXUS program)

That's higher than other states that only number exits off Interstates and major freeways for instance.  Not perfect, but I don't know if CalTrans will ever prioritize this beyond what they are already doing.

Not necessarily, if the "other" state's Interstates make up more than 85% of the total freeway system.
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J N Winkler

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #102 on: March 23, 2022, 01:44:38 AM »

Unfortunately, they're only placing exit numbers on certain freeways that were built after they decided to put in exit numbers. So, for example, CA-33 in Ventura, which was built before this change, does not have exit numbers, nor does it have any in the official CalTrans records.

The MUTCD requires exit numbers on all freeways, full stop. So eventually Caltrans will be required to add them, the same way they were obliged to fix the exit tabs. It's only a matter of when FHWA decides to show their teeth on that particular provision of the MUTCD.

I think that before FHWA starts chasing down Caltrans for not numbering five exits on the short freeway length of SR 33 in Ojai, the hammer will come down on Kansas DOT, which does not number exits on non-Interstate freeways at all and has no (known) plans to begin, despite having close to 200 centerline miles of them.
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Occidental Tourist

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #103 on: March 25, 2022, 04:23:37 AM »

Unfortunately, they're only placing exit numbers on certain freeways that were built after they decided to put in exit numbers. So, for example, CA-33 in Ventura, which was built before this change, does not have exit numbers, nor does it have any in the official CalTrans records.

I donít believe this is correct.  Cal-NExUS was started in 2002 and very few state route numbered freeways were built after that.  Plus, the Arroyo Seco Parkway, among others, had exit numbers added to it under Cal-NExUS and it was built 30 years before the Ojai Freeway.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #104 on: March 25, 2022, 09:47:01 AM »

Unfortunately, they're only placing exit numbers on certain freeways that were built after they decided to put in exit numbers. So, for example, CA-33 in Ventura, which was built before this change, does not have exit numbers, nor does it have any in the official CalTrans records.

I donít believe this is correct.  Cal-NExUS was started in 2002 and very few state route numbered freeways were built after that.  Plus, the Arroyo Seco Parkway, among others, had exit numbers added to it under Cal-NExUS and it was built 30 years before the Ojai Freeway.

The Ojai Freeway doesnít have exit numbers.  Here is a photo album I shot last June:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/151828809@N08/FheMeP

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J N Winkler

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #105 on: March 25, 2022, 12:34:46 PM »

Does anyone actually know why the Ojai Freeway doesn't have exit numbers?
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #106 on: March 25, 2022, 12:36:28 PM »

Does anyone actually know why the Ojai Freeway doesn't have exit numbers?

My assumption always has been that it just simply is a low priority freeway compared to everything else in Southern California.  I donít think there has ever been anything regarding putting exit numbers on the Ojai Freeway in any CTC meeting minutes. 
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J N Winkler

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #107 on: March 25, 2022, 12:59:26 PM »

My assumption always has been that it just simply is a low priority freeway compared to everything else in Southern California.  I donít think there has ever been anything regarding putting exit numbers on the Ojai Freeway in any CTC meeting minutes.

I certainly wouldn't expect it to be a high priority for actual installation of exit number signs.  However, when exit numbers were introduced in 2002, they were roughed in and tabulated for nearly all freeways.  I've looked at the exit numbering policy and can't see a provision under which SR 33 wouldn't qualify for exit numbers.  This makes me suspect a technical and totally non-obvious reason, such as it being built as a freeway without actually being legally designated as such.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #108 on: March 25, 2022, 01:17:17 PM »

My assumption always has been that it just simply is a low priority freeway compared to everything else in Southern California.  I donít think there has ever been anything regarding putting exit numbers on the Ojai Freeway in any CTC meeting minutes.

I certainly wouldn't expect it to be a high priority for actual installation of exit number signs.  However, when exit numbers were introduced in 2002, they were roughed in and tabulated for nearly all freeways.  I've looked at the exit numbering policy and can't see a provision under which SR 33 wouldn't qualify for exit numbers.  This makes me suspect a technical and totally non-obvious reason, such as it being built as a freeway without actually being legally designated as such.

Certainly possible, much of the Ojai Freeway opened during December 1956.  That would pre-date the Freeway & Expressway System by several years. 

That said, Daniel does have the Ojai Freeway in the Freeway & Expressway System as designated in 1959.  This would include the unbuilt portion north from the current end of the Ojai Freeway to Ojai:

https://www.cahighways.org/ROUTE033.html

Looking at the signage in my albums they pretty much all appear (at least northbound) too small to accommodate internal exit tabs.  I assume that means at some point the entire gantries will likely be up for replacement given the whole wind loading shenanigans stated above (this is a known Santa Ana Wind area).   Most of the signage appears to be late era button-copy designs.  I can see that being something pretty cost prohibitive to replace given the button-copy gantries probably are still within its designed service life. 
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Techknow

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #109 on: June 12, 2022, 09:21:09 PM »

As TheStranger pointed out in the catch-all thread, Caltrans has replaced left exit signs on I-80 West in San Francisco with new signs that feature external left exit tabs. You read this right! Despite other signs on US 101 being replaced, all other new signs still have internal exit tabs.

Take note of the truss that these new signs are on and what they look like on GSV. I don't think they have changed, or maybe the truss on the first photo has changed slightly to support the left exit tab. The brown thing on the first photo next to the exit tab is a smudge on my car's windshield.



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TheStranger

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #110 on: June 13, 2022, 04:48:58 PM »

An external tab I saw earlier in the month at I-5/Route 120 in Lathrop, it's been around for maybe 2+ years? 

_DSC6141 by Chris Sampang, on Flickr

On the same drive, saw this external tabbed roadside sign on 99 north:
_DSC6175c by Chris Sampang, on Flickr
« Last Edit: June 13, 2022, 04:51:35 PM by TheStranger »
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Chris Sampang

Techknow

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #111 on: June 13, 2022, 08:52:37 PM »

An external tab I saw earlier in the month at I-5/Route 120 in Lathrop, it's been around for maybe 2+ years? 

_DSC6141 by Chris Sampang, on Flickr

On the same drive, saw this external tabbed roadside sign on 99 north:
_DSC6175c by Chris Sampang, on Flickr

It's been around for at least seven years, having first been reported by myosh_tino. The Woodbridge Road BGS and exit tab has been around since at least 2007 !

It's a little interesting to compare these two tabs with the ones posted throughout this thread, it seems newer tabs are bigger
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ClassicHasClass

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #112 on: June 13, 2022, 08:59:52 PM »

Hate that SECOND RIGHT, though.  :ded:
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roadfro

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #113 on: June 14, 2022, 12:28:34 AM »

Those left exit tabs are ginormous! They seem much wider and a bit taller than necessary.
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SeriesE

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #114 on: June 14, 2022, 02:20:43 AM »

Those left exit tabs are ginormous! They seem much wider and a bit taller than necessary.
Federal MUTCD spec signs are not known for space efficiency.
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US 89

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #115 on: June 16, 2022, 12:58:04 PM »

Those left exit tabs are ginormous! They seem much wider and a bit taller than necessary.
Federal MUTCD spec signs are not known for space efficiency.

I wonder how hard the aluminum companies are lobbying for those standards.

TheStranger

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #116 on: June 28, 2022, 10:20:19 PM »

Didn't get a photo of it today, but the Century Freeway/I-105 has a very unusual external tab setup:

- Retroreflective signs on the overheads with no exit tabs originally, probably dating to the mid-early 2000s

- Exit tabs...on the vertical portion of the gantry, as opposed to above the sign.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9123794,-118.1795208,3a,28.7y,109.89h,86.93t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sh4gn35gaSJVCHiLa9fSQ9A!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dh4gn35gaSJVCHiLa9fSQ9A%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D2.1535583%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
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Chris Sampang

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #117 on: June 29, 2022, 04:42:21 PM »

I-210 has a couple of those in Sylmar.
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TheStranger

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #118 on: June 30, 2022, 04:15:10 PM »

Saw this external tab sign on Route 55 southbound in Orange!

_DSC8800c by Chris Sampang, on Flickr
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TheStranger

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #119 on: July 03, 2022, 01:42:19 PM »

External tabs sighted on Friday on US 101 northbound in the Santa Barbara area, when me and my friend drove up from Orange County back home to the Bay:

_DSC9002 by Chris Sampang, on Flickr

_DSC9004 by Chris Sampang, on Flickr

_DSC9008 by Chris Sampang, on Flickr
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Chris Sampang

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #120 on: July 03, 2022, 04:37:36 PM »

Didn't get a photo of it today, but the Century Freeway/I-105 has a very unusual external tab setup:

- Retroreflective signs on the overheads with no exit tabs originally, probably dating to the mid-early 2000s

- Exit tabs...on the vertical portion of the gantry, as opposed to above the sign.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9123794,-118.1795208,3a,28.7y,109.89h,86.93t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sh4gn35gaSJVCHiLa9fSQ9A!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dh4gn35gaSJVCHiLa9fSQ9A%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D2.1535583%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

That is a very weird setup, though not entirely unique. I-210 also has this arrangement near it's west terminus at I-5: https://goo.gl/maps/gX6euJKA6qcWuepv7
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Techknow

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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #121 on: July 03, 2022, 10:50:37 PM »

External tabs sighted on Friday on US 101 northbound in the Santa Barbara area, when me and my friend drove up from Orange County back home to the Bay:

Nice of you to have also traveled on US 101 recently (I drove north on it from Paso Robles after clinching Highway 1 through Big Sur on Friday.) I didn't notice any new signs or exit tabs in MoCo. The incorrect county route signage on two BGSes (Referring to County Route 15/18 with the G region missing) are still there even. Seems like District 7 is putting up external exit tabs unlike District 5.
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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #122 on: July 16, 2022, 04:20:27 AM »

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6468082,-121.3763803,3a,37.5y,215h,96.79t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sQhh3OnbRL9OJU6j25o64_A!2e0!5s20220601T000000!7i16384!8i8192

Here's a recent one on I-80 in Sacramento with the "new" Caltrans truss system (the LEFT exit to Light Rail Stations) at Exit 94.
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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #123 on: July 17, 2022, 06:02:32 AM »

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6468082,-121.3763803,3a,37.5y,215h,96.79t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sQhh3OnbRL9OJU6j25o64_A!2e0!5s20220601T000000!7i16384!8i8192

Here's a recent one on I-80 in Sacramento with the "new" Caltrans truss system (the LEFT exit to Light Rail Stations) at Exit 94.

Looks almost like a MnDot assembly, minus the maint gantry... 
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Re: Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs
« Reply #124 on: July 18, 2022, 10:35:50 PM »

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6468082,-121.3763803,3a,37.5y,215h,96.79t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sQhh3OnbRL9OJU6j25o64_A!2e0!5s20220601T000000!7i16384!8i8192

Here's a recent one on I-80 in Sacramento with the "new" Caltrans truss system (the LEFT exit to Light Rail Stations) at Exit 94.

So I wasn't imagining things...

I was on my way home back to the S.F. Bay Area from Reno when I saw this.  It made me do a double-take as it was totally unexpected (but not enough to make me take the next exit so I could backtrack to see it again).  I did see an upcoming project on eastbound CA-237 where the new truss is to be used.
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