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Author Topic: Abandoned runways turned into roads  (Read 6726 times)

kphoger

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #50 on: April 12, 2022, 03:47:44 PM »

WTF are we even arguing about anymore?

Stapleton was a dog turd, and DIA replaced it.  Could they have kept the old one around for _________ whatever reason?  meh, maybe.  Doesn't matter now.
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JayhawkCO

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #51 on: April 12, 2022, 03:50:14 PM »

Back on topic, it looks like one bit of the runway from Stapleton is still used as a parking lot. Nothing as a surface street.

FrCorySticha

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #52 on: April 12, 2022, 04:01:08 PM »

Did you ever actually fly into and through Stapleton and DIA, or are you just talking out of your ignorance and looking at maps? I've flown into and through both, and DIA is a massive improvement that was very much needed.

I care about distance to my final destination, I don't really care how fancy the airport is. Not to mention you can remodel all of that anyway so there is no inherency to whatever airport you flew in or out of remaining the same.

It would have just been quicker to respond "Ignorance". You don't know what you're talking about, and sadly, you're to full of yourself to realize it.
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HighwayStar

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #53 on: April 12, 2022, 04:18:01 PM »

Did you ever actually fly into and through Stapleton and DIA, or are you just talking out of your ignorance and looking at maps? I've flown into and through both, and DIA is a massive improvement that was very much needed.

I care about distance to my final destination, I don't really care how fancy the airport is. Not to mention you can remodel all of that anyway so there is no inherency to whatever airport you flew in or out of remaining the same.

It would have just been quicker to respond "Ignorance". You don't know what you're talking about, and sadly, you're to full of yourself to realize it.

Not sure who came up with this special gatekeeper definition of only someone who flew into both can make a comparison, but it is neither objective nor relevant. Rather than actually answering my point (that I, like most people that fly, only care about how much time it takes, not how luxurious the carpet in the airport is) we keep drifting off into these irrelevant suppositions
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HighwayStar

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2022, 04:23:07 PM »

WTF are we even arguing about anymore?

Stapleton was a dog turd, and DIA replaced it.  Could they have kept the old one around for _________ whatever reason?  meh, maybe.  Doesn't matter now.

Those who do not learn from their history are doomed to repeat it.
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kphoger

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #55 on: April 12, 2022, 04:28:18 PM »

I, like most people that fly, only care about how much time it takes, not how luxurious the carpet in the airport is

Not much time difference between the two that I can recall. DIA is served by a controlled-access highway, whereas Stapleton was in the middle of a bunch of local streets.

My mileage may have varied, though, coming in from out of town.

Those who do not learn from their history are doomed to repeat it.

So Denver is doomed... how, exactly?  Are they wishing they had another airport or something?
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abefroman329

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #56 on: April 12, 2022, 04:31:32 PM »

Not sure who came up with this special gatekeeper definition of only someone who flew into both can make a comparison
You, when you stated that no one who lives in NYC gets to have an opinion on whether they should have paved over Manhattan.
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JayhawkCO

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #57 on: April 12, 2022, 04:32:13 PM »

So Denver is doomed... how, exactly?  Are they wishing they had another airport or something?

No thanks. Maybe another security line. Otherwise we're good.

Rothman

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #58 on: April 12, 2022, 04:32:33 PM »

DIA is a better airport than Stapleton was anyway.
I just flew in and out of there.  It has aged very quickly.  I didn't mind it in years past, but this time the layout and the wandering required to get around irked me more.

What wandering? There's a train line connecting the main terminal to terminals A, B, and C. The train runs right down the center of those terminals, so once you get off, you walk in a straight line to your gate (or a slight pigtail at the end of Terminal B where the smaller United flights leave from).

Lots of other airports have signs that lead in multiple directions to get to different concourses/terminals, some of which take a lot longer than others. DIA doesn't have anything close to that since there's only one way to get between any two (other than the walkway from the main terminal to A).


Pfft.  I'm talking what you have to go through to get from the gate, to the baggage claim and out of the airport.  Compared to a lot of other airports I've been to, my experience at KDEN was awful.

You can keep trying to argue with me, but arguing against my own experience is pretty silly. :D
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FrCorySticha

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #59 on: April 12, 2022, 04:32:57 PM »

Not sure who came up with this special gatekeeper definition of only someone who flew into both can make a comparison, but it is neither objective nor relevant. Rather than actually answering my point (that I, like most people that fly, only care about how much time it takes, not how luxurious the carpet in the airport is) we keep drifting off into these irrelevant suppositions

Because you would actually know what you're talking about if you'd been to both airports. Your question has been answered by myself and others:
Stapleton was an old, outdated, functionally restricted airport that needed to be completely overhauled or replaced. The terminal was a sprawling mess (that I had the misfortune to run the entire length of due to a late flight) that had been expanded to its limits.

Ignorance and stubbornness on your part are not a good combination. Denver is not Dallas, and Stapleton was not Love Field.
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abefroman329

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #60 on: April 12, 2022, 04:33:31 PM »

So Denver is doomed... how, exactly?  Are they wishing they had another airport or something?
They don't even have one airport - everyone knows DIA is actually a FEMA concentration camp.
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HighwayStar

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #61 on: April 12, 2022, 04:34:16 PM »

Not sure who came up with this special gatekeeper definition of only someone who flew into both can make a comparison
You, when you stated that no one who lives in NYC gets to have an opinion on whether they should have paved over Manhattan.

It is 19 miles further from downtown, that is significant. Also roads can be improved, you can build a freeway to the old airport, but you cannot open a wormhole and reduce the mileage to the new one.

People living in Denver just get a substandard level of air service from what they should have had.
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FrCorySticha

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #62 on: April 12, 2022, 04:39:26 PM »

People living in Denver just get a substandard level of air service from what they should have had.

 :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

Just keep proving you have no clue what you're talking about.
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kphoger

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #63 on: April 12, 2022, 04:49:17 PM »


People living in Denver just get a substandard level of air service from what they should have had.

 :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

Just keep proving you have no clue what you're talking about.

Agreed.  This guy seems clueless as to how service dramatically improved with the opening of DIA.  Meanwhile, those of us who actually lived in the area at the time (granted, I lived 200+ miles away, but Denver was the closest non-prop-plane airport) just keep shaking our heads in disbelief.
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HighwayStar

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #64 on: April 12, 2022, 04:52:43 PM »


People living in Denver just get a substandard level of air service from what they should have had.

 :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

Just keep proving you have no clue what you're talking about.

Agreed.  This guy seems clueless as to how service dramatically improved with the opening of DIA.  Meanwhile, those of us who actually lived in the area at the time (granted, I lived 200+ miles away, but Denver was the closest non-prop-plane airport) just keep shaking our heads in disbelief.

I don't care how much "service improved" after DIA opened because, that is not the relevant criterion for comparison.
You have to compare against the preferred alternative which would be to keep BOTH. So you would still gain whatever "improvements" you got from DIA, but would also incur the benefits of an airport close to city center. Ie. perm and do both. See DFW/Love Field for how this works, its not rocket science.
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JayhawkCO

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #65 on: April 12, 2022, 04:55:28 PM »

I don't care how much "service improved" after DIA opened because, that is not the relevant criterion for comparison.
You have to compare against the preferred alternative which would be to keep BOTH. So you would still gain whatever "improvements" you got from DIA, but would also incur the benefits of an airport close to city center. Ie. perm and do both. See DFW/Love Field for how this works, its not rocket science.

I'm sure the fact that we now have almost no flights cancelled due to weather whereas Stapleton would have flights cancelled due to low cloud cover quite often is irrelevant to you. Because you only care that Stapleton was closer to downtown. Got it. Twelve minutes of traffic is much more important than four hours of flight delays. You can say that we can have both, but we don't want both. No one would want to fly out of a sub-standard Stapleton that would be much more likely to have a flight cancelled. It's not much closer when you count all the shitty traffic that used to exist on Quebec when trying to leave the airport.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2022, 04:59:41 PM by JayhawkCO »
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FrCorySticha

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #66 on: April 12, 2022, 04:56:48 PM »

Agreed.  This guy seems clueless as to how service dramatically improved with the opening of DIA.  Meanwhile, those of us who actually lived in the area at the time (granted, I lived 200+ miles away, but Denver was the closest non-prop-plane airport) just keep shaking our heads in disbelief.

I was living in NE Montana at the time, so quite a bit farther, but Denver was and is an important air link out of Montana. The problems of Stapleton, building a new airport, and bugs of DIA were all important news for us. I still remember hearing about the cluster**** that DIA's auto baggage routing system was at the beginning. Fortunately, they got that sorted out very quickly.
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skluth

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #67 on: April 12, 2022, 05:00:55 PM »


People living in Denver just get a substandard level of air service from what they should have had.

 :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

Just keep proving you have no clue what you're talking about.

Agreed.  This guy seems clueless as to how service dramatically improved with the opening of DIA.  Meanwhile, those of us who actually lived in the area at the time (granted, I lived 200+ miles away, but Denver was the closest non-prop-plane airport) just keep shaking our heads in disbelief.

I don't care how much "service improved" after DIA opened because, that is not the relevant criterion for comparison.
You have to compare against the preferred alternative which would be to keep BOTH. So you would still gain whatever "improvements" you got from DIA, but would also incur the benefits of an airport close to city center. Ie. perm and do both. See DFW/Love Field for how this works, its not rocket science.

I would argue Service is a relevant standard for rating any airport. Especially when the previous airport was rapidly reaching a point of not being capable of providing a level of service acceptable to most in the industry.
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FrCorySticha

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #68 on: April 12, 2022, 05:05:24 PM »

Back on topic, it looks like one bit of the runway from Stapleton is still used as a parking lot. Nothing as a surface street.

Before they started tearing up the field, there was a concert festival on one of the Stapleton runways. It was a lot of fun, and kind of cool from a geeky perspective to be partying where aircraft landed and took off for years.
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abefroman329

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #69 on: April 12, 2022, 05:20:52 PM »

Back on topic, it looks like one bit of the runway from Stapleton is still used as a parking lot. Nothing as a surface street.

Before they started tearing up the field, there was a concert festival on one of the Stapleton runways. It was a lot of fun, and kind of cool from a geeky perspective to be partying where aircraft landed and took off for years.
I bet - they used to do a 5K on the Runway at O'Hare and it was pretty cool to go for a run on a runway.
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JayhawkCO

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #70 on: April 12, 2022, 05:25:13 PM »

I went to a work party at a bar that opened in the former control tower at Stapleton. It has since closed but the building got purchased not too long ago. Story here.

GaryV

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #71 on: April 12, 2022, 05:59:59 PM »

For a lot of people, Detroit City is closer than DTW. HS, I wonder why they couldn't keep flights there? Even Southwest moved to DTW.
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JayhawkCO

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #72 on: April 12, 2022, 06:47:14 PM »

Lots of examples. Mobile comes to mind.

abefroman329

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #73 on: April 12, 2022, 10:31:02 PM »

CVG and Lunken Field, CMH and Rickenbacker…
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Scott5114

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Re: Abandoned runways turned into roads
« Reply #74 on: April 13, 2022, 03:36:10 AM »

Yeah that is the same line of BS they fed everyone about Love Field, but a funny thing happened over time, people came to love the convenience of an airport close to downtown and the government had to put draconian restrictions on it to prevent people from using it.

That's not what happened at all. Before DFW existed, Fort Worth tried to get Dallas to build a combined airport midway between the two cities that would replace the downtown Fort Worth and Dallas airfields. This was Amon Carter Greater Southwest Airport (GSW). However, because the plans placed the GSW terminal on the west side of the property, closer to Ft. Worth, Dallas pulled all of their funding from GSW and sank it all into Love Field. The FAA got pissed because with Dallas not closing its airport, they'd have to indefinitely fund two redundant commercial airports for Dallas and Fort Worth. They forced the construction of DFW and the abandonment of GSW to force Dallas to give up DAL. The FAA was clear on this at the time.

The reason the Wright Amendment happened was because when Southwest started at DAL, the federal government didn't want the city of Dallas to pull out of DFW and put them back in a position of having to fund two separate airports again. That would be more expensive and risk making DFW financially infeasible. By the time it was repealed, it was clear air traffic out of the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex had grown enough that DFW and DAL could both be feasible.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2022, 03:38:34 AM by Scott5114 »
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