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Most Worthless Control Cities

Started by paulthemapguy, March 13, 2016, 12:36:15 AM

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hobsini2

Quote from: Flint1979 on May 29, 2024, 01:28:24 PMI never see anyone arguing over Michigan's control cities. MDOT must do a pretty good job.
Oh there have been arguments about I-75 not using Detroit from Sault Ste Marie. But that's the only one I can think of.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)


Flint1979

Quote from: hobsini2 on May 30, 2024, 08:52:23 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 29, 2024, 01:28:24 PMI never see anyone arguing over Michigan's control cities. MDOT must do a pretty good job.
Oh there have been arguments about I-75 not using Detroit from Sault Ste Marie. But that's the only one I can think of.
That would be strange using Detroit that far north. Detroit starts being the control city at MM 125. I think I'd use Mackinac Bridge over St Ignace though.

hobsini2

Quote from: Flint1979 on May 30, 2024, 01:44:45 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 30, 2024, 08:52:23 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 29, 2024, 01:28:24 PMI never see anyone arguing over Michigan's control cities. MDOT must do a pretty good job.
Oh there have been arguments about I-75 not using Detroit from Sault Ste Marie. But that's the only one I can think of.
That would be strange using Detroit that far north. Detroit starts being the control city at MM 125. I think I'd use Mackinac Bridge over St Ignace though.
Definitely St Ignace needs to go. South of the Mackinaw Bridge, I would use both Detroit and Lansing since the US 127 split is not too far from the bridge.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

Flint1979

Quote from: hobsini2 on May 30, 2024, 06:58:15 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 30, 2024, 01:44:45 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 30, 2024, 08:52:23 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 29, 2024, 01:28:24 PMI never see anyone arguing over Michigan's control cities. MDOT must do a pretty good job.
Oh there have been arguments about I-75 not using Detroit from Sault Ste Marie. But that's the only one I can think of.
That would be strange using Detroit that far north. Detroit starts being the control city at MM 125. I think I'd use Mackinac Bridge over St Ignace though.
Definitely St Ignace needs to go. South of the Mackinaw Bridge, I would use both Detroit and Lansing since the US 127 split is not too far from the bridge.
I think it's good the way it is for the Lower Peninsula. St. Ignace though is a city that is known enough in the area as the north end of the bridge I just think using Mackinac Bridge itself instead is a better choice like in the Lower Peninsula. The US-127 split is about 85 miles from the bridge, Saginaw is the first big city in Michigan you come to and you don't generate Detroit bound traffic really until you hit Saginaw and it's a big enough place with a lot of traffic. Then there is a lot of Saginaw-Flint traffic that goes back and forth between the two cities so Flint is a good choice until you get there than Detroit.

And also most of the traffic that uses I-75 in the state is local to Michigan. I mean that we don't really see a lot of cross traffic unless it's going to Canada and even then if you were going like from say Toledo to Duluth I think you'd go through Wisconsin instead of Michigan. A lot of the traffic north of Saginaw is people going back and forth between up north and down state.

hobsini2

Quote from: Flint1979 on May 30, 2024, 09:11:51 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 30, 2024, 06:58:15 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 30, 2024, 01:44:45 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 30, 2024, 08:52:23 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 29, 2024, 01:28:24 PMI never see anyone arguing over Michigan's control cities. MDOT must do a pretty good job.
Oh there have been arguments about I-75 not using Detroit from Sault Ste Marie. But that's the only one I can think of.
That would be strange using Detroit that far north. Detroit starts being the control city at MM 125. I think I'd use Mackinac Bridge over St Ignace though.
Definitely St Ignace needs to go. South of the Mackinaw Bridge, I would use both Detroit and Lansing since the US 127 split is not too far from the bridge.
I think it's good the way it is for the Lower Peninsula. St. Ignace though is a city that is known enough in the area as the north end of the bridge I just think using Mackinac Bridge itself instead is a better choice like in the Lower Peninsula. The US-127 split is about 85 miles from the bridge, Saginaw is the first big city in Michigan you come to and you don't generate Detroit bound traffic really until you hit Saginaw and it's a big enough place with a lot of traffic. Then there is a lot of Saginaw-Flint traffic that goes back and forth between the two cities so Flint is a good choice until you get there than Detroit.

And also most of the traffic that uses I-75 in the state is local to Michigan. I mean that we don't really see a lot of cross traffic unless it's going to Canada and even then if you were going like from say Toledo to Duluth I think you'd go through Wisconsin instead of Michigan. A lot of the traffic north of Saginaw is people going back and forth between up north and down state.
Just for S&G, i did Google the difference between Toledo and Duluth via Chicago vs Mackinaw. Mackinaw is 20 miles more and an hour slower.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

paulthemapguy

Here's an idea: For signs along I-75 northbound on the Lower Peninsula, "Upper Peninsula" could just be used as the control.  For signs along I-75 southbound on the Upper Peninsula, "Lower Peninsula" could be used.  This might be more intuitive than using "Mackinac Br" as a city.
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StogieGuy7

I always thought that Cove Fort, UT (not even a town) was a useless control city.

paulthemapguy

Quote from: StogieGuy7 on June 05, 2024, 04:29:21 PMI always thought that Cove Fort, UT (not even a town) was a useless control city.

Salina and Cove Fort are both worthless control cities in Utah. I'd sign I-70 in Utah as the way to get to Las Vegas and Denver.
Avatar is the last interesting highway I clinched.
My website! http://www.paulacrossamerica.com Now featuring all of Ohio!
My USA Shield Gallery https://flic.kr/s/aHsmHwJRZk
TM Clinches https://bit.ly/2UwRs4O

National collection status: Every US Route and (fully built) Interstate has a photo now! Just Alaska and Hawaii left!

JayhawkCO

Quote from: paulthemapguy on June 05, 2024, 04:40:17 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on June 05, 2024, 04:29:21 PMI always thought that Cove Fort, UT (not even a town) was a useless control city.

Salina and Cove Fort are both worthless control cities in Utah. I'd sign I-70 in Utah as the way to get to Las Vegas and Denver.

I do find it strange that Utah is willing to use Reno and Cheyenne as control cities despite other possible options a little closer (Elko, Rock Springs, etc.), but uses these other small control cities to "keep it in state". Reno might as well have been replaced by Wendover and Cheyenne replaced by Echo.

Flint1979

Quote from: paulthemapguy on June 05, 2024, 11:00:45 AMHere's an idea: For signs along I-75 northbound on the Lower Peninsula, "Upper Peninsula" could just be used as the control.  For signs along I-75 southbound on the Upper Peninsula, "Lower Peninsula" could be used.  This might be more intuitive than using "Mackinac Br" as a city.
Granted this won't be a problem because the Mackinac Bridge is the only way to get between the peninsulas without a long trip around Lake Michigan but it's like using Indiana and Wisconsin in Chicago, there it's like where in Indiana and where in Wisconsin? So it'd be like where in the Upper Peninsula? But you would know since the Mackinac Bridge would be the only way to get there without the long trip around the lake so I think that is why Mackinac Bridge is used, it flat out tells you where you are going to end up.

Yesterday I crossed the bridge twice and laughed when I got to Mackinaw City and saw Saginaw as the control city for SB I-75. I didn't take I-75 to get to the area, I took a bunch of back roads and state highways so I was thinking geez I haven't been in Saginaw in four hours and I am still seeing signs for Saginaw lol.

Flint1979

For I-70 in Utah for EB I'd use Grand Junction. For WB I'd use St. George or Las Vegas. St. George though only had about 5,000 people when the Interstate Highway System was built, now it has 100,000 people. Las Vegas really wasn't much different, it only had 24,000 people in 1950, by 1960 though they had 64,000 compared to 650,000 today. In fact Las Vegas has twice the population today that Nevada as a state did in 1960. I look at the populations from those years since those were the populations when control cities were selected.

hobsini2

Quote from: Flint1979 on June 05, 2024, 07:21:50 PMFor I-70 in Utah for EB I'd use Grand Junction. For WB I'd use St. George or Las Vegas. St. George though only had about 5,000 people when the Interstate Highway System was built, now it has 100,000 people. Las Vegas really wasn't much different, it only had 24,000 people in 1950, by 1960 though they had 64,000 compared to 650,000 today. In fact Las Vegas has twice the population today that Nevada as a state did in 1960. I look at the populations from those years since those were the populations when control cities were selected.
This is why I like using 2 controls when appropriate. I-70 EB in Utah is prime example of a highway that it would work.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

Flint1979

Quote from: hobsini2 on June 07, 2024, 10:19:34 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 05, 2024, 07:21:50 PMFor I-70 in Utah for EB I'd use Grand Junction. For WB I'd use St. George or Las Vegas. St. George though only had about 5,000 people when the Interstate Highway System was built, now it has 100,000 people. Las Vegas really wasn't much different, it only had 24,000 people in 1950, by 1960 though they had 64,000 compared to 650,000 today. In fact Las Vegas has twice the population today that Nevada as a state did in 1960. I look at the populations from those years since those were the populations when control cities were selected.
This is why I like using 2 controls when appropriate. I-70 EB in Utah is prime example of a highway that it would work.
Ok so Limon would work for the second control city right? I'm just kidding, it'd be Denver of course.

roadman65

Elmwood Park used on NJ Route 20 SB in Paterson, NJ for I-80 is worthless as New York should be used as all other ramps to I-80 use that.

NB Route 20 has an exit to Market Street that splits from the I-80 ramp from that location. So the use of Elmwood Park there is not as an I-80 control, but to the Market Street ramp. Therefore it's not useless like it is SB.

Elmwood Park is just a small suburb of Paterson not of relevance to typical drivers using Route 20 in the area, so another reason why New York is better fitted there.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

mrsman

Quote from: roadman65 on July 05, 2024, 01:11:38 AMElmwood Park used on NJ Route 20 SB in Paterson, NJ for I-80 is worthless as New York should be used as all other ramps to I-80 use that.

NB Route 20 has an exit to Market Street that splits from the I-80 ramp from that location. So the use of Elmwood Park there is not as an I-80 control, but to the Market Street ramp. Therefore it's not useless like it is SB.

Elmwood Park is just a small suburb of Paterson not of relevance to typical drivers using Route 20 in the area, so another reason why New York is better fitted there.

Agreed.  NYC should take prominence.  But given some of the complexities of traveling in the area, and especially some of the history where it seems that I-80's construction impacted the ability of Market Street from providing easy access between Paterson and Elmwood Park, I can see that there also needs to be some clear guidance to get people to Elmwood Park in this location.  Supplemental signage that Elmwood Park should use I-80 east should be sufficient.

roadman65

#415
Another thing about I-80 in New Jersey is they use Hackensack as a mileage control east of NJ 53, but at the Express- Local split they have no follow up to Hackensack as only the local lanes have ramps to that city.

Plus the local lanes have no control cities either. The Express Lanes use the GWB as a control destination, but even that is partially incorrect as only the upper level is reached via those lanes. To access the lower level one must use the local lanes from here. So the sign should be like the I-95 Express and Local split and state that fact as those particular guides use the two levels of the GWB as controls plus Hackensack for the local lanes.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

mrsman

Quote from: roadman65 on July 08, 2024, 01:53:08 AMAnother thing about I-80 in New Jersey is they use Hackensack as a mileage control east of NJ 53, but at the Express- Local split they have no follow up to Hackensack as only the local lanes have ramps to that city.

Plus the local lanes have no control cities either. The Express Lanes use the GWB as a control destination, but even that is partially incorrect as only the upper level is reached via those lanes. To access the lower level one must use the local lanes from here. So the sign should be like the I-95 Express and Local split and state that fact as those particular guides use the two levels of the GWB as controls plus Hackensack for the local lanes.

I am not in that area that often, but I do find the whole section of both 80 and 95 in that area leading up to the bridge to be extremely confusing, and the signs issues definitely are a big part of it.

roadman65

https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZaGgGaUiVb2dwYFm7
Wilkes- Barre being used here instead of Scranton.

In fact Scranton is only used at I-380 from I-80. I-81 exit on I-80 uses Wilkes- Barre for obvious reasons as the connecting interstate visits there before Scranton, but I-476 don't go directly to or close to this city.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

hobsini2

Quote from: roadman65 on September 27, 2024, 10:40:26 AMhttps://maps.app.goo.gl/ZaGgGaUiVb2dwYFm7
Wilkes- Barre being used here instead of Scranton.

In fact Scranton is only used at I-380 from I-80. I-81 exit on I-80 uses Wilkes- Barre for obvious reasons as the connecting interstate visits there before Scranton, but I-476 don't go directly to or close to this city.
You could make a case for Wilkes-Barre as much as you can for Allentown going the other way despite some people insisting on Philadelphia going south until I-76. It's not as bad as Delaware Water Gap.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)



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