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Author Topic: Traffic signal  (Read 896015 times)

7/8

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4975 on: March 07, 2023, 08:44:00 AM »

https://goo.gl/maps/BiJuuH9VMt8ePGSA7
Here is one in Surrey, BC that I find most interesting. A left, a through, and right turn signal at one direction of an intersection.  Because the long queues from truck traffic entering the US, the local or provincial road agency developed this unusual traffic configuration.
Also using arrows for thru traffic and circles for the turns, that has to be an uncommon setup.
I suspect that for all the signals, the green light is an arrow, and the yellow and red lights are circles. In this 2018 street view, you can see the thru signal is a yellow ball. In Ontario, protected-only left turn signals are from top to bottom: red circle, yellow circle, green left arrow (beside a "left turn signal" sign), and I think BC is the same.
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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4976 on: March 07, 2023, 10:48:04 AM »

https://goo.gl/maps/wcJjvTYXtpLwr7x77
Couldnít help notice that Puerto Rico is adopting the yellow border back plates on their traffic signals like many states are now using.

Iím guessing that the MUTCD applies not only in the fifty states but in US Territories as well.
Oh my, you haven't seen how the MUTCD works in the US VI, have you?
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jakeroot

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4977 on: March 08, 2023, 12:01:26 AM »

https://goo.gl/maps/BiJuuH9VMt8ePGSA7
Here is one in Surrey, BC that I find most interesting. A left, a through, and right turn signal at one direction of an intersection.  Because the long queues from truck traffic entering the US, the local or provincial road agency developed this unusual traffic configuration.
Also using arrows for thru traffic and circles for the turns, that has to be an uncommon setup.
I suspect that for all the signals, the green light is an arrow, and the yellow and red lights are circles. In this 2018 street view, you can see the thru signal is a yellow ball. In Ontario, protected-only left turn signals are from top to bottom: red circle, yellow circle, green left arrow (beside a "left turn signal" sign), and I think BC is the same.

This is correct, the left turn signals in BC, like most of Canada, use red orbs with "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" signs. This definitely makes it more common to see green arrows to differ them from turn signals (as in the BC/WA border example above), but you always see the "...TURN SIGNAL" signs no matter what.

Richmond uses a bimodal green and yellow bottom arrow, and a yellow orb in the middle. Not sure anywhere else in Canada does this: https://goo.gl/maps/dB9vhW8WiogJubXPA

KEK Inc.

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4978 on: March 08, 2023, 08:54:10 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/BiJuuH9VMt8ePGSA7
Here is one in Surrey, BC that I find most interesting. A left, a through, and right turn signal at one direction of an intersection.  Because the long queues from truck traffic entering the US, the local or provincial road agency developed this unusual traffic configuration.
Also using arrows for thru traffic and circles for the turns, that has to be an uncommon setup.
I suspect that for all the signals, the green light is an arrow, and the yellow and red lights are circles. In this 2018 street view, you can see the thru signal is a yellow ball. In Ontario, protected-only left turn signals are from top to bottom: red circle, yellow circle, green left arrow (beside a "left turn signal" sign), and I think BC is the same.

This is correct, the left turn signals in BC, like most of Canada, use red orbs with "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" signs. This definitely makes it more common to see green arrows to differ them from turn signals (as in the BC/WA border example above), but you always see the "...TURN SIGNAL" signs no matter what.

Richmond uses a bimodal green and yellow bottom arrow, and a yellow orb in the middle. Not sure anywhere else in Canada does this: https://goo.gl/maps/dB9vhW8WiogJubXPA

The mast arm on those signals in Richmond reminds me of the signals near Bellevue Mall.

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6160947,-122.2016222,3a,75y,308.14h,103.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s85GpVxnCCY-PYfK_rxLb6w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6174959,-122.2001573,3a,41.2y,217.38h,102.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ss3ww1644Cv1ho8M1cMKu4Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

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plain

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4979 on: March 08, 2023, 10:22:12 PM »

Richmond uses a bimodal green and yellow bottom arrow, and a yellow orb in the middle. Not sure anywhere else in Canada does this: https://goo.gl/maps/dB9vhW8WiogJubXPA

That is a very strange operation. Seriously, why is that necessary? A shared signal doesn't even function like that. And these are what's supposed to be straight up left turn signals.
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jakeroot

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4980 on: March 08, 2023, 11:19:58 PM »

Richmond uses a bimodal green and yellow bottom arrow, and a yellow orb in the middle. Not sure anywhere else in Canada does this: https://goo.gl/maps/dB9vhW8WiogJubXPA

That is a very strange operation. Seriously, why is that necessary? A shared signal doesn't even function like that. And these are what's supposed to be straight up left turn signals.

I wouldn't overthink or question too much of what you see in Canada...there is very little federal oversight and most decisions are made locally. It doesn't take more than one or two engineers thinking "hey this would be cool" for something to happen. There are "rules" per se but they can be ignored much more readily than in the US.

Now, why did they decide to double up on the yellows here? Cannot say for sure, though from my time in Vancouver, drivers will quite readily push yellows and reds more than what I'm used to seeing elsewhere. Perhaps the double yellow is their way of begging drivers to consider stopping earlier than they might normally.

ARMOURERERIC

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4981 on: March 12, 2023, 09:12:57 PM »

There are 3 lamp signals like this on Enola Rd NB near my home in Morganton NC. I think you may be misinterpreting this.  Here, the bottom is a flashing yellow arrow, the middle is a non flahing  yellow arrow alerting you the signal is about to go red, the top a slid red. It is a 2017 install.  I think the Google image caught a phase overlap.
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Hobart

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4982 on: March 12, 2023, 10:50:49 PM »

There are 3 lamp signals like this on Enola Rd NB near my home in Morganton NC. I think you may be misinterpreting this.  Here, the bottom is a flashing yellow arrow, the middle is a non flahing  yellow arrow alerting you the signal is about to go red, the top a slid red. It is a 2017 install.  I think the Google image caught a phase overlap.

I don't think the FYA has made it over to Canada yet.
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jakeroot

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4983 on: March 12, 2023, 11:25:06 PM »

There are 3 lamp signals like this on Enola Rd NB near my home in Morganton NC. I think you may be misinterpreting this.  Here, the bottom is a flashing yellow arrow, the middle is a non flahing  yellow arrow alerting you the signal is about to go red, the top a slid red. It is a 2017 install.  I think the Google image caught a phase overlap.

My location is "Japan" but I've spent lots of time in the Vancouver area. I assure you, it's just as shown in Street View. Solid yellow arrow and solid yellow orb at the end.

bcroadguy

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4984 on: March 18, 2023, 05:46:52 AM »

I was looking at Streetview in New Glasgow, Nova Scotia and noticed that a green right turn arrow was illuminated at the same time as a conflicting walk signal.

This would never be allowed in BC or the US. A green arrow always means you have the right of way.

I was about to email the city about how dangerous this is, but checked the Nova Scotia Motor Vehicle Act and found this:

"green arrow light - all vehicular traffic facing this signal may proceed but only in a direction indicated by an arrow unless
otherwise directed by a peace officer but shall yield the right of way
to pedestrians lawfully in a crosswalk and other vehicles lawfully in
an intersection, and pedestrians may proceed only in a crosswalk
towards the signal unless otherwise directed by a traffic sign or signal"

WTF.
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Big John

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4985 on: March 18, 2023, 07:50:29 AM »

^^ That used to be the case in the US, and can still be found in places.
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SignBridge

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4986 on: March 18, 2023, 07:46:01 PM »

I've never seen an installation like that in the U.S. that I can remember.
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jakeroot

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4987 on: March 19, 2023, 12:16:33 AM »

It's not even that old of a setup, how unusual!

Here in Japan, at protected-only signals (which are very rare), green up and left arrow are used during the through phase, meaning that a green left arrow is almost always pointing at an active walk signal:

https://goo.gl/maps/3nhtb9rpybNNJiBe9

I'm not keen on this setup, but it's pretty much the only way for things to work when you refuse to use dedicated turn signals... :poke:

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4988 on: March 20, 2023, 10:42:39 PM »

I was looking at Streetview in New Glasgow, Nova Scotia and noticed that a green right turn arrow was illuminated at the same time as a conflicting walk signal.

This would never be allowed in BC or the US. A green arrow always means you have the right of way.

I was about to email the city about how dangerous this is, but checked the Nova Scotia Motor Vehicle Act and found this:

"green arrow light - all vehicular traffic facing this signal may proceed but only in a direction indicated by an arrow unless
otherwise directed by a peace officer but shall yield the right of way
to pedestrians lawfully in a crosswalk and other vehicles lawfully in
an intersection, and pedestrians may proceed only in a crosswalk
towards the signal unless otherwise directed by a traffic sign or signal"

WTF.

I can explain this. When Canada started using protected phases and arrow signal lights, they did things differently:

The first use of green arrows was in Toronto, and it was used in conjunction with a computer to direct traffic around obstructions.

- The steady green arrow required all traffic on the road to turn in the direction of the arrow.

- A flashing green ball gave a protected left turn. There was no way to have a protected turn in both directions except for split-phase.

- Later Canada used a flashing green arrow to display a protected left turn.

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bcroadguy

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4989 on: April 01, 2023, 06:16:05 AM »

Well, this is certainly an interesting alternative to a flashing yellow arrow. "YIELD ON FLASHING RED ARROW AFTER STOP" next to a left turn signal on a busy 6-lane road in Silver Spring, MD: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0470976,-77.0520118,3a,21y,5.4h,97.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxux-rhSdeGycXOVLEU2D-Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
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jakeroot

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4990 on: April 01, 2023, 09:37:18 AM »

Well, this is certainly an interesting alternative to a flashing yellow arrow. "YIELD ON FLASHING RED ARROW AFTER STOP" next to a left turn signal on a busy 6-lane road in Silver Spring, MD: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0470976,-77.0520118,3a,21y,5.4h,97.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxux-rhSdeGycXOVLEU2D-Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Actually, this is the norm in Maryland. Delaware too, I believe. It predates the flashing yellow arrow, and they've stuck with it.

My favorite example of a flashing red left arrow is this double left turn onto Columbia Pike in Silver Spring, for no reason other than it is two lanes turning left whilst yielding.

steviep24

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4991 on: April 01, 2023, 11:02:46 AM »

Well, this is certainly an interesting alternative to a flashing yellow arrow. "YIELD ON FLASHING RED ARROW AFTER STOP" next to a left turn signal on a busy 6-lane road in Silver Spring, MD: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0470976,-77.0520118,3a,21y,5.4h,97.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxux-rhSdeGycXOVLEU2D-Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Actually, this is the norm in Maryland. Delaware too, I believe. It predates the flashing yellow arrow, and they've stuck with it.

My favorite example of a flashing red left arrow is this double left turn onto Columbia Pike in Silver Spring, for no reason other than it is two lanes turning left whilst yielding.
There is one in Upstate NY that I know of. NY 104 at Furnace Rd. in Ontario.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2273522,-77.2820007,3a,37.5y,69.03h,102.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3-kkbgbf5rhPSylz1Uq9rw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0

Notice there are separate indications for flashing and steady red arrows here.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2023, 11:08:29 AM by steviep24 »
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4992 on: April 01, 2023, 12:29:45 PM »

Well, this is certainly an interesting alternative to a flashing yellow arrow. "YIELD ON FLASHING RED ARROW AFTER STOP" next to a left turn signal on a busy 6-lane road in Silver Spring, MD: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0470976,-77.0520118,3a,21y,5.4h,97.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxux-rhSdeGycXOVLEU2D-Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Actually, this is the norm in Maryland. Delaware too, I believe. It predates the flashing yellow arrow, and they've stuck with it.

My favorite example of a flashing red left arrow is this double left turn onto Columbia Pike in Silver Spring, for no reason other than it is two lanes turning left whilst yielding.

Not only is it the norm in Delaware and Maryland, and predates the FYA, it predates the FYA by upwards of two decades.  They were in DE and MD in 1993 when I started school in Delaware. MD using the standard 3 segment traffic light with a flashing red arrow, and Delaware using a "T" style where the right light is generally a red bulb or arrow that'll always remain steady, and the left light is generally a red arrow that'll flash when appropriate.

Delaware now has at least one flashing yellow arrow combined with a flashing yellowing bicycle light in the University of Delaware complex which I need to try to get some video of soon...
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Hobart

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4993 on: April 01, 2023, 04:06:14 PM »

Well, this is certainly an interesting alternative to a flashing yellow arrow. "YIELD ON FLASHING RED ARROW AFTER STOP" next to a left turn signal on a busy 6-lane road in Silver Spring, MD: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0470976,-77.0520118,3a,21y,5.4h,97.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxux-rhSdeGycXOVLEU2D-Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I know this used to come up in Michigan a lot on older installations, back when they were using the red ball for left turn signals. They switched over to FYA at least a decade ago.
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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4994 on: April 02, 2023, 03:13:56 AM »

Seattle has been using flashing yellow left turn signals for decades (originally flashing yellow balls before switching to arrows when the FYA was standardized), but still has three locations that function like this -- one with a flashing red ball and two others have solid red arrows with signs encouraging left turns on red. (I swear the Montlake one was a flashing red arrow at some point, but I can't find any evidence of that.) I've never been sure why these didn't use Seattle's standard flashing yellow.
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jakeroot

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4995 on: April 02, 2023, 06:05:26 AM »

Seattle has been using flashing yellow left turn signals for decades (originally flashing yellow balls before switching to arrows when the FYA was standardized), but still has three locations that function like this -- one with a flashing red ball and two others have solid red arrows with signs encouraging left turns on red. (I swear the Montlake one was a flashing red arrow at some point, but I can't find any evidence of that.) I've never been sure why these didn't use Seattle's standard flashing yellow.

I also find it interesting that, at least in the Montlake example, they doubled-down on it by reinstalling the signs. Of course, with it being a one-way (also the Eastlake example), a sign isn't necessary at all. But still, no interest in adopting the FYA apparently.

There is still one remaining flashing yellow orb, northbound on Boylston at Roanoke. I also remember one leaving the UW campus on the eastside, turning left onto 25th Ave NE, but I see it was replaced with an FYA a number of years ago. I think I have a video of it somewhere.

wanderer2575

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4996 on: April 02, 2023, 05:11:04 PM »

Well, this is certainly an interesting alternative to a flashing yellow arrow. "YIELD ON FLASHING RED ARROW AFTER STOP" next to a left turn signal on a busy 6-lane road in Silver Spring, MD: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0470976,-77.0520118,3a,21y,5.4h,97.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxux-rhSdeGycXOVLEU2D-Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I know this used to come up in Michigan a lot on older installations, back when they were using the red ball for left turn signals. They switched over to FYA at least a decade ago.

I never saw such a sign on any signal with a flashing left-turn red ball.  (And some of those older signals still exist here.)
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wanderer2575

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4997 on: April 04, 2023, 02:26:47 PM »

Here's an unusual (?) box-span setup near my parents' home in Walled Lake, MI.  In each direction, the signals are spread across the road instead of only over the lanes for that direction.  I haven't seen this anywhere else.

https://goo.gl/maps/5XfqnjBdhKHN4qSG7
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SignBridge

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4998 on: April 04, 2023, 08:23:03 PM »

Until a few years ago that was a common practice by County DPW in Long Island's Nassau County, N.Y. But they used a single diagonal span wire, or diagonally positioned mast-arms. Now they've adopted the standard practice recommended in the MUTCD of putting the two required heads over the right half of the road.

Both configurations have their pros and cons. Among other things, the widespread spacing reduces the chance of both heads being obscured for following vehicles by a large truck. 
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jakeroot

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4999 on: April 05, 2023, 03:51:34 AM »

That's a very interesting setup! It didn't strike me as unusual at first; it wasn't until I read your whole post that I realized what was going on.

SignBridge, I would agree that the wider spacing would certainly help prevent the chance of the signal heads being obscured...that may be the only advantage, but it seems like a relatively significant one.

 


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