Traffic signal

[roadman65]

When did New Jersey start using more of the straight mast arm signals? Nice to see, just don't remember them when I lived there in the 90s.

I've noticed that in living out west, the majority of areas that use left turn arrows or left turn signals have a minimum of two signals, either in the median on a divided road, or the far left overhead and the far left side. Most areas tend to use five head signals for permissive lefts, although in Arizona, the city of Scottsdale and ADOT are trending towards four head signals. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing more of the "doghouse" permissive overhead signals out there.

New Jersey had them in the 1980's when I lived there and the US 1 and Stiles Street intersection in Linden had them from the late 70's.   Atlantic City  even used them back in the mid 70's along Atlantic Avenue.

NJ also uses 2 signal heads for left turns like out west as well.  New Jersey, though, along with NYC will have one of its straight through heads on the left side (opposing) side of the road as well.  However, new signals on NJ 21 in Newark have them with three heads over each lane like other states do for through traffic with no left side heads.  MUTCD must be cracking down on New Jersey, as NJ always did their signals differently then the rest of the nation.
Heck, even the NJTA says FU to the MUCTD as their lane striping uses more paint then what is necessary meaning thicker and longer lines.  They were  even the last roadway around to convert the old safety control signs (merging traffic,etc.) to the international diagramical ones.

[Scott5114]

I dislike that New Jersey arrow arrangement, but I guess it saves them money. Seeing the arrow change position as it goes from green to yellow in a conventional signal gives drivers an additional visual aid to observe the change. Especially helpful for drivers who may have any degree of color-blindness. I'm a little surprised at New Jersey. They are usually pretty sharp re: traffic signal installations.

This is exactly why the MUTCD doesn't allow them.

[akotchi]

I dislike that New Jersey arrow arrangement, but I guess it saves them money. Seeing the arrow change position as it goes from green to yellow in a conventional signal gives drivers an additional visual aid to observe the change. Especially helpful for drivers who may have any degree of color-blindness. I'm a little surprised at New Jersey. They are usually pretty sharp re: traffic signal installations.

This is exactly why the MUTCD doesn't allow them.

Where do you see this prohibition?  Reading Section 4D.06, paragraph 06, it seems like the green/yellow bi-modal arrows are allowed.  NJ would have stopped using them for new installations if the 2009 Manual prohibited them.

I can appreciate SignBridge's point, though -- there might have been a loading issue on the mast arms using 5-section vs. 4-section heads.

[SignBridge]

I doubt that it was a loading issue. Plenty of doghouses are used on these mast arms elsewhere including Bucks County along Lincoln Hwy and Street Road. My guess is that it's just cheaper to do it with 4 sections than 5.

And I agree that sec. 4D-06-06 does seem to permit New Jersey's practice, if I'm understanding it correctly. Some of these standards in the Manual can be hard to interpret. 

And yes I assume N.J. would not still be using them if they were prohibited, but you never know. New York DOT and Nassau County have some flashing strobes in their red traffic lights and I don't believe that's permitted. And Massachusetts has some flashing green lights, which is not authorized in the Manual.

[Scott5114]

Huh. I could have sworn I read somewhere they were prohibited.

[SidS1045]

New York DOT and Nassau County have some flashing strobes in their red traffic lights and I don't believe that's permitted.

As does Westchester County.  The red signals on the Saw Mill River Parkway at Readers Digest Road have strobe tubes across them.

And Massachusetts has some flashing green lights, which is not authorized in the Manual.

Flashing greens in Massachusetts pre-date the MUTCD by decades, although they're not covered in the current driver's manual, and the section of the state's MUTCD supplement on flashing lights (7-9.5) doesn't even mention them.  There are a few left, however.

[Ian]

New York DOT and Nassau County have some flashing strobes in their red traffic lights and I don't believe that's permitted.

As does Westchester County.  The red signals on the Saw Mill River Parkway at Readers Digest Road have strobe tubes across them.

I've noticed all of New York has a lot of strobe signals. The signals at the south end of the Adirondack Northway have strobes, as well as Northway exit 8 have them amongst others in the Capital Area.

[Central Avenue]

Huh. I could have sworn I read somewhere they were prohibited.

Perhaps you were thinking of dual-mode flashing and steady yellow arrows in a FYA assembly? As I understand it, the MUTCD requires separate steady and flashing yellow arrow segments for those for the reason you mentioned before; the "jump" gives drivers a better visual indication than the light simply changing from steady to flashing.

[Alps]

New York DOT and Nassau County have some flashing strobes in their red traffic lights and I don't believe that's permitted.

As does Westchester County.  The red signals on the Saw Mill River Parkway at Readers Digest Road have strobe tubes across them.

And Massachusetts has some flashing green lights, which is not authorized in the Manual.

Flashing greens in Massachusetts pre-date the MUTCD by decades, although they're not covered in the current driver's manual, and the section of the state's MUTCD supplement on flashing lights (7-9.5) doesn't even mention them.  There are a few left, however.

Morrissey Blvd., for example.

Huh. I could have sworn I read somewhere they were prohibited.

You shouldn't swear.

[Scott5114]

Huh. I could have sworn I read somewhere they were prohibited.

You shouldn't swear.
[/quote]

Oh. Fuck.

[PHLBOS]

Flashing greens in Massachusetts pre-date the MUTCD by decades, although they're not covered in the current driver's manual, and the section of the state's MUTCD supplement on flashing lights (7-9.5) doesn't even mention them.  There are a few left, however.

Salem still has some old pedestrian-activated traffic signals that go into a steady red and yellow mode to signify that pedestrians can cross the street (instead of using separate pedestrian (WALK/DONT WALK) signals).  Some other Greater Boston communities may still have similar signals around as well.

[agentsteel53]

what does flashing green mean in Massachusetts?

in Mexico, it is "light is about to turn yellow".  there, they have a long flashing green phase, and a yellow of a second or two.  the total amount is comparable to a US yellow interval.

[jwolfer]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/6799126368/in/photostream/  http://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/6945237857/in/photostream/     http://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/6799126238/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/6945237857/in/photostream/


Pictures of an ugly signal assembly in Orlando, FL on US 17, 92, & 441.

Hideous!  we have one like that in Jax on Monument Road and Trednick Pkwy just west of the 295 interchange

[PHLBOS]

what does flashing green mean in Massachusetts?

in Mexico, it is "light is about to turn yellow".  there, they have a long flashing green phase, and a yellow of a second or two.  the total amount is comparable to a US yellow interval.

IIRC, a flashing green means proceed but expect the light to change; usually after a pedestrian pushes a button.

[PurdueBill]

what does flashing green mean in Massachusetts?

in Mexico, it is "light is about to turn yellow".  there, they have a long flashing green phase, and a yellow of a second or two.  the total amount is comparable to a US yellow interval.

IIRC, a flashing green means proceed but expect the light to change; usually after a pedestrian pushes a button.

The way I learned it in Drivers' Ed in Mass a couple decades (plus a couple years) back is that flashing green means "subject to change"....if the 10-year-old on the corner wants to see the car coming down the street stand on end, he will push the pedestrian button at just the right time to make the light change red.  So yes, the same as you say--expect it to change and be ready for it.

I could swear I remember at least one flashing green in Delaware on US 13 some years back....that was definitely not a pedestrian-actuated light, so I don't know what was special about it.

[signalman]

what does flashing green mean in Massachusetts?

in Mexico, it is "light is about to turn yellow".  there, they have a long flashing green phase, and a yellow of a second or two.  the total amount is comparable to a US yellow interval.

IIRC, a flashing green means proceed but expect the light to change; usually after a pedestrian pushes a button.

Isn't flashing green also used in some Canadian provinces?

[Alps]

Flashing greens in Massachusetts pre-date the MUTCD by decades, although they're not covered in the current driver's manual, and the section of the state's MUTCD supplement on flashing lights (7-9.5) doesn't even mention them.  There are a few left, however.

Salem still has some old pedestrian-activated traffic signals that go into a steady red and yellow mode to signify that pedestrians can cross the street (instead of using separate pedestrian (WALK/DONT WALK) signals).  Some other Greater Boston communities may still have similar signals around as well.

Boston itself still has them on Charles St. north of the Commons. Re: flashing green, it has nothing to do with "expect to stop" in common usage. My understanding of it was, this is a location where people may cross, but unless you see people, assume it stays green. That may differ from the legal language, but it's how people treat it.

[The High Plains Traveler]

what does flashing green mean in Massachusetts?

in Mexico, it is "light is about to turn yellow".  there, they have a long flashing green phase, and a yellow of a second or two.  the total amount is comparable to a US yellow interval.

IIRC, a flashing green means proceed but expect the light to change; usually after a pedestrian pushes a button.

Isn't flashing green also used in some Canadian provinces?

It is, or at least used to be, protected left turn; basically a green left arrow. The light went steady a few seconds before oncoming traffic got their green.

[SignBridge]

I can't believe there are so many misconceptions about the Massachusetts flashing green. It indicates a traffic signal that is operated by pre-emption, usually either a pedestrian cross-walk, or in front of a fire-station where it is operated when the fire-trucks are leaving or backing in. It will not cycle the way a normal traffic light does. Stays flashing-green until manually activated. Hope this clears up the confusion.

[Scott5114]

That's what happens when you use a non-standard traffic control device...people get misconceptions about it!

[deathtopumpkins]

Massachusetts is FULL of flashing greens. Most of the North Shore towns still have them (Salem, Beverly, Swampscott, Lynn), and some prior Googling and experience driving by them almost daily has taught me that flashing green indicates a non-activated pedestrian signal. What bothers me though is that the side street will have a flashing red AND a stop sign, indicating that the signal only applies to pedestrians. When a pedestrian activates the crossing, the light then changes to steady yellow and then steady red for both directions before reverting back to flashing green and red.

[signalman]

what does flashing green mean in Massachusetts?

in Mexico, it is "light is about to turn yellow".  there, they have a long flashing green phase, and a yellow of a second or two.  the total amount is comparable to a US yellow interval.

IIRC, a flashing green means proceed but expect the light to change; usually after a pedestrian pushes a button.

Isn't flashing green also used in some Canadian provinces?

It is, or at least used to be, protected left turn; basically a green left arrow. The light went steady a few seconds before oncoming traffic got their green.

Oh, ok.  Thank you for clarifying.

[realjd]

I can't believe there are so many misconceptions about the Massachusetts flashing green. It indicates a traffic signal that is operated by pre-emption, usually either a pedestrian cross-walk, or in front of a fire-station where it is operated when the fire-trucks are leaving or backing in. It will not cycle the way a normal traffic light does. Stays flashing-green until manually activated. Hope this clears up the confusion.

Why not use a regular green? Or a flashing yellow? Down here we use regular lights for pedestrian signals and flashing yellow for emergency signals, with the flashing yellow on the bottom in place of green. Does the flashing green add any information to the driver that a steady green doesn't?

[PHLBOS]

Why not use a regular green? Or a flashing yellow?

Funny you should say that.  One traffic signal in Downtown Marblehead, MA went from a flashing yellow to a flashing green about a decade ago.  It's the pedestrain-activated signal located at the intersection of Pleasant & School Streets.; Pleasant having the yellow-to-green, School St. has a flashing red.

The way I learned it in Drivers' Ed in Mass a couple decades (plus a couple years) back is that flashing green means "subject to change"

I took my Mass. Driver's Ed. class back in 1982 and the wording was indeed the same.

Re: flashing green, it has nothing to do with "expect to stop" in common usage. My understanding of it was, this is a location where people may cross, but unless you see people, assume it stays green. That may differ from the legal language, but it's how people treat it.

Steve, the expect to stop or subject to change regarding flashing greens (sounds like a nudist environmental group) language is straight from the Massachusetts Driver's Manual... at least the one from the 70s & 80s that PurdueBill and I read when we were learning how to drive.  However, you are correct in most drivers' real world interpretation of it.

Keep in mind, that back in the 70s/80s; MA had a lot more flashing green signals around than today.  Most of them, with the exception of the above-mentioned Pleasant St. signal, were originally erected in the 50s & 60s.

[PurdueBill]

Why not use a regular green? Or a flashing yellow?

Funny you should say that.  One traffic signal in Downtown Marblehead, MA went from a flashing yellow to a flashing green about a decade ago.  It's the pedestrain-activated signal located at the intersection of Pleasant & School Streets.; Pleasant having the yellow-to-green, School St. has a flashing red.

The way I learned it in Drivers' Ed in Mass a couple decades (plus a couple years) back is that flashing green means "subject to change"

I took my Mass. Driver's Ed. class back in 1982 and the wording was indeed the same.

Re: flashing green, it has nothing to do with "expect to stop" in common usage. My understanding of it was, this is a location where people may cross, but unless you see people, assume it stays green. That may differ from the legal language, but it's how people treat it.

Steve, the expect to stop or subject to change regarding flashing greens (sounds like a nudist environmental group) language is straight from the Massachusetts Driver's Manual... at least the one from the 70s & 80s that PurdueBill and I read when we were learning how to drive.  However, you are correct in most drivers' real world interpretation of it.

Keep in mind, that back in the 70s/80s; MA had a lot more flashing green signals around than today.  Most of them, with the exception of the above-mentioned Pleasant St. signal, were originally erected in the 50s & 60s.

Also common at intersections where there is a flashing green for the main road is that the side street usually has a flashing red in the bottom of the signal (that is, the signal is red, yellow, red from top to bottom).  In the absence of pedestrian signals, the pedestrian actuation of the lights would result in the lights going from flashing bottom color all ways, to yellow all ways, to red all ways, then red-and-yellow all ways, which means WALK in all directions.  Again, this was particular to Mass and is disappearing slowly--but is still very common in places including the North Shore.  I think that even Peabody had some on streets near Salem (like Margin Street). 

I should be sure to clarify that the "subject to change" meaning pertained to pedestrians--if there were no people in sight, then it was likely that the flashing green would stay so.  However, it was always possible for someone to come out of nowhere and push the button and get an instant signal change, perhaps unless the signal had changed very recently and the controller had provisions for a minimum time between cycles.

While many flashing green signals are quite old equipment, there are many out there that are newer signals that were carbon-copy replacements of old ones (like the Margin St. Peabody ones at the Salem line).  I am surprised that they are allowed to stay as flashing green like that, but maybe there isn't any specific language about it that prohibits them being replaced in-kind like that.

I still think that when they were coming up with the meanings of flashing lights, the flashing green would have been more suitable than flashing yellow for some purposes.  As it is, flashing green is basically wasted, and flashing yellow winds up having different meanings when found as a signal at an intersection vs. as a standalone flashing yellow accompanying a sign (prepare to stop when flashing, urgent message when flashing, etc.).