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Traffic signal

Started by Tom89t, January 14, 2012, 01:01:45 AM

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jakeroot

Quote from: roadfro on December 14, 2014, 10:54:49 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 14, 2014, 12:24:16 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on December 14, 2014, 12:05:56 AM
I was thinking of contacting the city and asking them if they ever had plans to replace this signal, because whatever lens those are suck...
And contacting the city wouldn't do you any good.  It's a State maintained signal.

Maybe contacting the city/state and telling them to install a roundabout could work  :bigass:

But seriously, the convoluted geometry here looks like the intersection could be better served by a roundabout...

If we're talking roundabouts, I'm always happy to offer a design. The scale is slightly off but the principle is still there. Basically you'd have to tighten up the carriageway. That should do the trick.



Roadrunner75

Nice drawing, but no more roundabouts in NJ please.

jakeroot

Quote from: Roadrunner75 on December 15, 2014, 01:15:07 AM
Nice drawing, but no more roundabouts in NJ please.

But there's not that many.

Roadrunner75

Quote from: jakeroot on December 15, 2014, 01:16:30 AM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on December 15, 2014, 01:15:07 AM
Nice drawing, but no more roundabouts in NJ please.

But there's not that many.
Let's keep it that way.

jakeroot

Quote from: Roadrunner75 on December 15, 2014, 01:17:11 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on December 15, 2014, 01:16:30 AM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on December 15, 2014, 01:15:07 AM
Nice drawing, but no more roundabouts in NJ please.

But there's not that many.

Let's keep it that way.

??? Please expand. I don't see the problem with them. You aren't confusing them with traffic circles are you?

Roadrunner75

Quote from: jakeroot on December 15, 2014, 01:18:43 AM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on December 15, 2014, 01:17:11 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on December 15, 2014, 01:16:30 AM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on December 15, 2014, 01:15:07 AM
Nice drawing, but no more roundabouts in NJ please.

But there's not that many.

Let's keep it that way.

??? Please expand. I don't see the problem with them. You aren't confusing them with traffic circles are you?
NJ has had quite a history with circular intersections (the 'traffic circle').  While we may have some nostalgia for our circles, many of us think of the congestion, getting cut-off, no clear right-of-way, difficulty getting across the primary route, general anarchy, etc..  Most people I know around here are not happy to see something new that is circular, no matter how small you make it or how many Yield signs you put up.  We have simply too much traffic and too many aggressive drivers for these things to work properly, which is why we started getting rid of them in the first place.  Change the name, make it smaller, put up signs to control the right-of-way - it's still a circle to NJ drivers and we're still gonna barrel through it like we own it, other drivers be damned.


jeffandnicole

You do realize NJ has added MANY roundabouts over the past few years. I don't know the exact amount, but I would say we now have more roundabouts than we do traffic circles in the state.

Roadrunner75

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 15, 2014, 01:45:19 AM
You do realize NJ has added MANY roundabouts over the past few years. I don't know the exact amount, but I would say we now have more roundabouts than we do traffic circles in the state.
I would agree with that.  I see a bunch popping up on minor routes or in residential areas.  Often unnecessary but relatively harmless.  Putting in a new one on a major route such as 29 would be an absolute mess.


jakeroot

Quote from: Roadrunner75 on December 15, 2014, 01:52:04 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 15, 2014, 01:45:19 AM
You do realize NJ has added MANY roundabouts over the past few years. I don't know the exact amount, but I would say we now have more roundabouts than we do traffic circles in the state.

I would agree with that.  I see a bunch popping up on minor routes or in residential areas.  Often unnecessary but relatively harmless.  Putting in a new one on a major route such as 29 would be an absolute mess.

Are there any major two-lane proper modern roundabouts in New Jersey? On a more-or-less major thoroughfare? Not a traffic circle, but an actual roundabout built within the last decade or so? Excluding converted traffic circles.

roadfro

Quote from: jakeroot on December 15, 2014, 12:24:09 AM
Quote from: roadfro on December 14, 2014, 10:54:49 PM
Maybe contacting the city/state and telling them to install a roundabout could work  :bigass:

But seriously, the convoluted geometry here looks like the intersection could be better served by a roundabout...

If we're talking roundabouts, I'm always happy to offer a design. The scale is slightly off but the principle is still there. Basically you'd have to tighten up the carriageway. That should do the trick.



Didn't mean to start controversy with that suggestion...

I had actually envisioned a 5-point roundabout when I was thinking of it, to include the side street intersection to the east. In any event, your roundabout was well designed, especially the circulatory layout (which some engineers can't even seem to get right :sigh: ).
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

tradephoric

Quote from: jakeroot on December 15, 2014, 01:54:28 AM
Are there any major two-lane proper modern roundabouts in New Jersey? On a more-or-less major thoroughfare? Not a traffic circle, but an actual roundabout built within the last decade or so? Excluding converted traffic circles.

IMO, this is the best designed two-lane modern roundabout in New Jersey (however, only one leg is actually two-lanes).  It was constructed in 2007.
https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=39.989111,-75.010887&spn=0.001125,0.00089&t=h&z=20

There really aren't that many well designed modern roundabouts in NJ (two-lane or otherwise).  Here are some of the better designed single-lane roundabouts in NJ:
https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.332066,-74.131571&spn=0.000791,0.00089&t=h&z=20
https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.4841,-74.43269&spn=0.001579,0.001781&t=h&z=19

odditude

Quote from: jakeroot on December 15, 2014, 12:24:09 AMIf we're talking roundabouts, I'm always happy to offer a design. The scale is slightly off but the principle is still there. Basically you'd have to tighten up the carriageway. That should do the trick.


First off, a comment - Sanhican Dr ends at 29; the roadway crossing your drawing from left to right is all 29 (which has no local name at this point, although further south it's John Fitch Way). Also, the Sunoco got a ridiculous level of detail there. Not my preferred gas station, since they hike up the prices a bit, but...

How well do roundabouts handle large levels of traffic? 579 SB approaching 29 backs up badly during rush hour, with the vast majority of traffic turning onto 29 SB - I've seen up to 15 minute delays there.

Personally, I've always wished they'd built a grade-separated interchange there, similar to Parkside Ave a little further south.

tradephoric

Quote from: odditude on December 15, 2014, 11:24:07 AM
How well do roundabouts handle large levels of traffic? 579 SB approaching 29 backs up badly during rush hour, with the vast majority of traffic turning onto 29 SB - I've seen up to 15 minute delays there.

According to Roundabouts: An Informational Guide (Publication No. FHWA-RD-00-067), for double-lane roundabouts, 40,000 to 50,000 vehicles per day can be accommodated, depending on the traffic patterns.  Based on the geometry of the intersection, I highly doubt the NJ intersection experiences over 50,000 vehicles per day.

A triple-lane roundabout near me accommodates up to 57,000 vehicles per day.  For the most part it performs very well, but there is a half hour window during the PM rush where it can start to break down.

jakeroot

#588
Quote from: roadfro on December 15, 2014, 03:31:05 AM
I had actually envisioned a 5-point roundabout when I was thinking of it, to include the side street intersection to the east.

Quote from: odditude on December 15, 2014, 11:24:07 AM
579 SB approaching 29 backs up badly during rush hour, with the vast majority of traffic turning onto 29 SB - I've seen up to 15 minute delays there.

Quote from: tradephoric on December 15, 2014, 12:25:44 PM
Quote from: odditude on December 15, 2014, 11:24:07 AM
How well do roundabouts handle large levels of traffic? 579 SB approaching 29 backs up badly during rush hour, with the vast majority of traffic turning onto 29 SB - I've seen up to 15 minute delays there.

...A triple-lane roundabout near me accommodates up to 57,000 vehicles per day.  For the most part it performs very well, but there is a half hour window during the PM rush where it can start to break down.

MAYBE a stretch too far? Definitely still going to tighten up the carriageway but we move Route 579 slightly east and make the roundabout a bit oblong shape to accommodate Sanhican Drive. The roundabout would vary from four to two lanes depending on where you are.


Zeffy

^ ^ That would certainly make my travels through Trenton a bit more interesting, especially after I see how people treat the I-95/NJ 29 interchange... ugh.
Life would be boring if we didn't take an offramp every once in a while

A weird combination of a weather geek, roadgeek, car enthusiast and furry mixed with many anxiety related disorders

jakeroot

#590
Quote from: Zeffy on December 15, 2014, 05:34:09 PM
^ ^ That would certainly make my travels through Trenton a bit more interesting, especially after I see how people treat the I-95/NJ 29 interchange... ugh.

Yeah, even I think this second version is just a bit too much.

EDIT: Speaking of Trenton, what the hell is this??: http://goo.gl/YczSSI Just a lane sort of starting out of nowhere that then ends in a thousand yards?

odditude

Quote from: jakeroot on December 15, 2014, 05:38:06 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on December 15, 2014, 05:34:09 PM
^ ^ That would certainly make my travels through Trenton a bit more interesting, especially after I see how people treat the I-95/NJ 29 interchange... ugh.

Yeah, even I think this second version is just a bit too much.

EDIT: Speaking of Trenton, what the hell is this??: http://goo.gl/YczSSI Just a lane sort of starting out of nowhere that then ends in a thousand yards?
that interchange is a mess for quite a few reasons. something tells me you would appreciate its planned replacement as part of the Scudders Falls Bridge replacement project. 29 NB still drops to one lane, though.

jakeroot

Quote from: odditude on December 15, 2014, 06:25:03 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on December 15, 2014, 05:38:06 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on December 15, 2014, 05:34:09 PM
^ ^ That would certainly make my travels through Trenton a bit more interesting, especially after I see how people treat the I-95/NJ 29 interchange... ugh.

Yeah, even I think this second version is just a bit too much.

EDIT: Speaking of Trenton, what the hell is this??: http://goo.gl/YczSSI Just a lane sort of starting out of nowhere that then ends in a thousand yards?
that interchange is a mess for quite a few reasons. something tells me you would appreciate its planned replacement as part of the Scudders Falls Bridge replacement project. 29 NB still drops to one lane, though.

Interesting. I would just make 29 a dual carriageway along the edge of the river and have a folded diamond (i.e. a parclo) with a couple of signals coming off the 95. Then again, the proposal keeps 29 as a nonstop route, so it has that going for it.

Is 29 supposed to be a freeway, an expressway, or what?

tradephoric

Hey Jake, how about a teardrop roundabout to incorporate into your second diagram?  The curves of the teardrop help reduce the speed of circulating traffic inside the roundabout.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2743261,-95.990431,141m/data=!3m1!1e3

Here is a multi-lane teardrop roundabout used at an interchange in Carmel, Indiana.




jakeroot

Quote from: tradephoric on December 15, 2014, 06:43:08 PM
Hey Jake, how about a teardrop roundabout to incorporate into your second diagram?  The curves of the teardrop help reduce the speed of circulating traffic inside the roundabout.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2743261,-95.990431,141m/data=!3m1!1e3

Here is a multi-lane teardrop roundabout used at an interchange in Carmel, Indiana.

That's a good idea. I'll give it a go and post back here when I come up with something.

roadfro

Quote from: jakeroot on December 15, 2014, 05:30:56 PM
Quote from: roadfro on December 15, 2014, 03:31:05 AM
I had actually envisioned a 5-point roundabout when I was thinking of it, to include the side street intersection to the east.

MAYBE a stretch too far? Definitely still going to tighten up the carriageway but we move Route 579 slightly east and make the roundabout a bit oblong shape to accommodate Sanhican Drive. The roundabout would vary from four to two lanes depending on where you are.



I think 2 lanes would work just fine, given that most of the feeder roads are two-lane anyways. And you'd need to do something with the eastbound departure to Route 29--that leg is way too straight.exit on
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

cl94

I'd say the 2-lane roundabout with an offset at-grade partial Y is the best of the 2 options compared to what currently exists. Google Maps says NJ 29 is Sanhican Dr, so I'd place any name error on them.

What I would do is make a single-lane roundabout with NJ 29 passing above on a bridge. Clearfield Ave is one-way, so slip ramps could be built to connect to/from SB NJ 29 (actually, one of them already exists). If carriageways are shifted, NB 29 would get direct ramps to/from the roundabout, with the one northwest of the interchange functioning as a frontage road between the roundabout and Mill Rd.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

freebrickproductions

Caught this photo of some incandescent traffic lights changing from red to green today:
McCain Traffic Lights by freebrickproductions, on Flickr
It's all fun & games until someone summons Cthulhu and brings about the end of the world.

I also collect traffic lights, road signs, fans, and railroad crossing equipment.

(They/Them)

jakeroot

#598
Quote from: jakeroot on December 16, 2014, 02:18:27 AM
Quote from: tradephoric on December 15, 2014, 06:43:08 PM
Hey Jake, how about a teardrop roundabout to incorporate into your second diagram?  The curves of the teardrop help reduce the speed of circulating traffic inside the roundabout.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2743261,-95.990431,141m/data=!3m1!1e3

Here is a multi-lane teardrop roundabout used at an interchange in Carmel, Indiana.

That's a good idea. I'll give it a go and post back here when I come up with something.

Alright, so here's a version of that:

A couple of notes:

- The slip lane from CR 579 North to Edgewood is because (apparently) CR 579 is a high-speed through route, and I want to keep the average speed of the road at its maximum. Limiting the number of brake-to-5mph-then-turn instances seems to me like a good idea.
- This version turns NJ-29 into a single-carriageway with a flush median. This is because of the number of houses, and with a tighter carriageway, there's no longer any U-turn points except at the roundabout(s?).
- Given the nature of New Jersey drivers, implementing yield-ahead pavement symbols is a must. Re-enforcement signs overhead and to the side would also be implemented.



Here's an example of a sign that could be placed at the western leg:


Zeffy

That actually looks pretty nice, but I would recommend changing the control city on 579 to either "West Trenton" (AKA Ewing), or "Hopewell [Township]".

Quote- Given the nature of New Jersey drivers, implementing yield-ahead pavement symbols is a must. Re-enforcement signs overhead and to the side would also be implemented.

Most Jersey drivers are decent in this area - it's the damn Pennsylvanian ones that completely blow through every yield without actually yielding.
Life would be boring if we didn't take an offramp every once in a while

A weird combination of a weather geek, roadgeek, car enthusiast and furry mixed with many anxiety related disorders



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