Traffic signal

[RG407]

Here's a flashing yellow arrow that flashes no more. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.713074,-81.362477,3a,75y,235.72h,77.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK0BG6N80g0reieXW99UliQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

This is the intersection of Longwood Hills Rd./E.E. Williamson Rd. and Rangeline Rd. in Longwood, FL, near Orlando.  Until last year there was a doghouse signal at this intersection.  It was replaced by a FYA.  A few weeks ago, the "Left turn yield on flashing yellow arrow" sign was removed and the signal now only operates with protected left turns.

Has anyone else seen this happen?  My guess is the FYA may have caused an increase in accidents since a lot people don't know what to do with them.  I've had a couple of near-misses with drivers turning when they weren't supposed to.

[thenetwork]

Here's a flashing yellow arrow that flashes no more. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.713074,-81.362477,3a,75y,235.72h,77.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK0BG6N80g0reieXW99UliQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

This is the intersection of Longwood Hills Rd./E.E. Williamson Rd. and Rangeline Rd. in Longwood, FL, near Orlando.  Until last year there was a doghouse signal at this intersection.  It was replaced by a FYA.  A few weeks ago, the "Left turn yield on flashing yellow arrow" sign was removed and the signal now only operates with protected left turns.

Has anyone else seen this happen?  My guess is the FYA may have caused an increase in accidents since a lot people don't know what to do with them.  I've had a couple of near-misses with drivers turning when they weren't supposed to.

When you have a large population of retirees & senior citizens, it doesn't really matter what you do at intersections to try to make them safer, they still won't get it.  And it's not just in Florida either.  I live in an area where the AARPers will sit in a right turn lane at a dead stop despite a red ball w/ green right arrow directly ahead of them -- and a toot on the horn doesn't wake them up, either.

[cl94]

Here's a flashing yellow arrow that flashes no more. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.713074,-81.362477,3a,75y,235.72h,77.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK0BG6N80g0reieXW99UliQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

This is the intersection of Longwood Hills Rd./E.E. Williamson Rd. and Rangeline Rd. in Longwood, FL, near Orlando.  Until last year there was a doghouse signal at this intersection.  It was replaced by a FYA.  A few weeks ago, the "Left turn yield on flashing yellow arrow" sign was removed and the signal now only operates with protected left turns.

Has anyone else seen this happen?  My guess is the FYA may have caused an increase in accidents since a lot people don't know what to do with them.  I've had a couple of near-misses with drivers turning when they weren't supposed to.

When you have a large population of retirees & senior citizens, it doesn't really matter what you do at intersections to try to make them safer, they still won't get it.  And it's not just in Florida either.  I live in an area where the AARPers will sit in a right turn lane at a dead stop despite a red ball w/ green right arrow directly ahead of them -- and a toot on the horn doesn't wake them up, either.

That or they make rights on red into other vehicles. The median age in Buffalo is quite high and you can tell it on the roads by the stupidity of the drivers.

[Mdcastle]

The first doghouse style stop lights in Wisconsin where recently installed by the City of Eau Claire. Here are some photos I took:

...

They also have FYA's too.

What I'm confused about is that the 5-section doghouse display is overhead, but the far left post-mounted vertical displays use only 4 sections... That does not make sense.

That could be a copy of the original FYA Doghouse setup that operates in split phase at peak times and permissive only at non-peak; that has a conventional 4-head FYA on the left pole. Mn/DOT later modified the phasing and changed the signal on the left pole to a second doghouse for the more common protected / permissive setup.

[uknowbeers]

Here's a flashing yellow arrow that flashes no more. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.713074,-81.362477,3a,75y,235.72h,77.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK0BG6N80g0reieXW99UliQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

This is the intersection of Longwood Hills Rd./E.E. Williamson Rd. and Rangeline Rd. in Longwood, FL, near Orlando.  Until last year there was a doghouse signal at this intersection.  It was replaced by a FYA.  A few weeks ago, the "Left turn yield on flashing yellow arrow" sign was removed and the signal now only operates with protected left turns.

Has anyone else seen this happen?  My guess is the FYA may have caused an increase in accidents since a lot people don't know what to do with them.  I've had a couple of near-misses with drivers turning when they weren't supposed to.

When you have a large population of retirees & senior citizens, it doesn't really matter what you do at intersections to try to make them safer, they still won't get it.  And it's not just in Florida either.  I live in an area where the AARPers will sit in a right turn lane at a dead stop despite a red ball w/ green right arrow directly ahead of them -- and a toot on the horn doesn't wake them up, either.

That intersection is not in a retiree area. It's in Orlando suburbia and has mostly commuters and families going to/from the local schools. I assume the protected-only was installed because of the odd configuration of the side streets. If you need a definitive answer, PM me and I will talk to my contact at the county.

[tradephoric]

Here's a flashing yellow arrow that flashes no more. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.713074,-81.362477,3a,75y,235.72h,77.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK0BG6N80g0reieXW99UliQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

This is the intersection of Longwood Hills Rd./E.E. Williamson Rd. and Rangeline Rd. in Longwood, FL, near Orlando.  Until last year there was a doghouse signal at this intersection.  It was replaced by a FYA.  A few weeks ago, the "Left turn yield on flashing yellow arrow" sign was removed and the signal now only operates with protected left turns.

Has anyone else seen this happen?  My guess is the FYA may have caused an increase in accidents since a lot people don't know what to do with them.  I've had a couple of near-misses with drivers turning when they weren't supposed to.

When you have a large population of retirees & senior citizens, it doesn't really matter what you do at intersections to try to make them safer, they still won't get it.  And it's not just in Florida either.  I live in an area where the AARPers will sit in a right turn lane at a dead stop despite a red ball w/ green right arrow directly ahead of them -- and a toot on the horn doesn't wake them up, either.

That intersection is not in a retiree area. It's in Orlando suburbia and has mostly commuters and families going to/from the local schools. I assume the protected-only was installed because of the odd configuration of the side streets. If you need a definitive answer, PM me and I will talk to my contact at the county.

Did the phasing of the left-turn change when the signal was converted from a doghouse to a FYA?  With this example, a leading-left would likely create a lot of problems with traffic blocking the intersection.

[KEK Inc.]

Here's a flashing yellow arrow that flashes no more. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.713074,-81.362477,3a,75y,235.72h,77.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK0BG6N80g0reieXW99UliQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

This is the intersection of Longwood Hills Rd./E.E. Williamson Rd. and Rangeline Rd. in Longwood, FL, near Orlando.  Until last year there was a doghouse signal at this intersection.  It was replaced by a FYA.  A few weeks ago, the "Left turn yield on flashing yellow arrow" sign was removed and the signal now only operates with protected left turns.

Has anyone else seen this happen?  My guess is the FYA may have caused an increase in accidents since a lot people don't know what to do with them.  I've had a couple of near-misses with drivers turning when they weren't supposed to.

My first and only accident I was involved in was from a flashing yellow ball.  There's a supplement under the sign that implies that the signal is for left turns. 

Some douche thought he could jump it or didn't know it wasn't protected.  Needless to say, his insurance covered everything.   I noticed that SDOT updated all of the U-District 8" flashing yellow balls to 12" flashing yellow arrows about a month after my accident. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.661256,-122.306592,3a,47.2y,103.84h,96.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sG7thC70ZNPGncjfHbYELiw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

[uknowbeers]

Here's a flashing yellow arrow that flashes no more. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.713074,-81.362477,3a,75y,235.72h,77.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK0BG6N80g0reieXW99UliQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

This is the intersection of Longwood Hills Rd./E.E. Williamson Rd. and Rangeline Rd. in Longwood, FL, near Orlando.  Until last year there was a doghouse signal at this intersection.  It was replaced by a FYA.  A few weeks ago, the "Left turn yield on flashing yellow arrow" sign was removed and the signal now only operates with protected left turns.

Has anyone else seen this happen?  My guess is the FYA may have caused an increase in accidents since a lot people don't know what to do with them.  I've had a couple of near-misses with drivers turning when they weren't supposed to.

When you have a large population of retirees & senior citizens, it doesn't really matter what you do at intersections to try to make them safer, they still won't get it.  And it's not just in Florida either.  I live in an area where the AARPers will sit in a right turn lane at a dead stop despite a red ball w/ green right arrow directly ahead of them -- and a toot on the horn doesn't wake them up, either.

That intersection is not in a retiree area. It's in Orlando suburbia and has mostly commuters and families going to/from the local schools. I assume the protected-only was installed because of the odd configuration of the side streets. If you need a definitive answer, PM me and I will talk to my contact at the county.

Did the phasing of the left-turn change when the signal was converted from a doghouse to a FYA?  With this example, a leading-left would likely create a lot of problems with traffic blocking the intersection.

I don't travel that street often, but I highly doubt it was anything other than Leading Left, with the doghouse or with the flashing yellow arrow. FDOT likes lagging lefts at intersections (during peak times) but Seminole County almost never uses lagging lefts. I can't think of any lagging lefts on Seminole county-maintained roads, in fact.

[jakeroot]

In Puyallup, Washington, where 2nd St intersects Meridian Ave and River Rd north of the city center near the auto dealers, is this rather strange setup. The two right-most side-saddle signals have, in order from top to bottom, red orb, amber orb, amber arrow, green arrow. In one phase of the video, the two signals act as additional repeaters for the thru-traffic, but during the latter phase, they are only for the right turn. Very strange. Oh and then during the amber phase, both the amber arrow and amber orb light up. Wtf.

https://youtu.be/bLg9ZOZIWx4

[Bruce]

Though you can't see it in this picture, the signal at 23rd & John in Seattle has a straight arrow AND a left turn arrow.

https://goo.gl/maps/706kr

[mrsman]

http://la.streetsblog.org/2015/07/06/dangerous-intersection-of-venice-and-robertson-gets-a-flashing-yellow-signal/

Last November, David Lindley was walking across the street at the five point intersection of Venice and South Robertson Boulevard when he was struck and killed. Lindley, an autistic teen who attended nearby Hamilton High School, was mourned by friends and family who vowed to see the intersection fixed.

...

Over six months after Lindley's tragic death, LADOT recently unveiled its answer to the safety issues created by what one Hamilton High School student described as a "busy, confusing and dangerous"  intersection, a flashing yellow arrow warning drivers to be aware of pedestrians. This is the first time the City of Los Angeles has used this traffic control device, but they are common in other parts of the country. Motorists have shown greater likelihood to yield during a flashing yellow arrow than a red one.

[mrsman]

In Puyallup, Washington, where 2nd St intersects Meridian Ave and River Rd north of the city center near the auto dealers, is this rather strange setup. The two right-most side-saddle signals have, in order from top to bottom, red orb, amber orb, amber arrow, green arrow. In one phase of the video, the two signals act as additional repeaters for the thru-traffic, but during the latter phase, they are only for the right turn. Very strange. Oh and then during the amber phase, both the amber arrow and amber orb light up. Wtf.

https://youtu.be/bLg9ZOZIWx4

I don't consider it that strange.  I believe that the light is meant mainly to control the right turn, but it can also be used to provide additional visibility to the red light.

Does WA consider a red right arrow to mean no turn on red?

In most states, a red right arrow is synonymous with no turn while the arrow is on.  So simply making the signal RA,YA,GA would prohibit turning on red.  So the red arrow is replaced with a red ball.  But if you have a red ball, it should be on at times when the other red balls are on, even if a right turn is permitted during the right turn phase (cross-street left turn phase).  That's what we see with red ball and green arrow at the same time.  The yellow ball and yellow arrow denote that both straight and right turn green times are ending and that red is approaching.

There is a similar signal phasing at the corner of Santa Monica and Wilshire in Beverly Hills, CA.  There, the right turn signal is Red ball, yellow arrow, green arrow.

At SM & Wilshire, like the intersection above, pedestrians are not allowed to cross the street on the right side.  That is why you have a green arrow lit for the entire green phase.  If pedestrians would be allowed to cross, you would probably see a 5-section signal on the right, which is fairly common.  R,Y,G,YA,GA.  The sequence would be as folllows:  R, R+GA, R+YA, R (all-red), G, Y, R.  The  arrows would be lit only when the cross street has green left arrow and yellow left arrow, and the RYG would match the other lights at the intersection.  But here,  as there are no pedestrian conflicts, the green ball is eliminated.

[jakeroot]

Does WA consider a red right arrow to mean no turn on red?

They don't. Red balls and red arrows are synonymous. It's a little annoying to come to an off-ramp of a freeway, and some tourist is sitting there on a red arrow not turning, when they can. There's usually a symphony of horns but they don't catch on.

[roadman65]

Does WA consider a red right arrow to mean no turn on red?

They don't. Red balls and red arrows are synonymous. It's a little annoying to come to an off-ramp of a freeway, and some tourist is sitting there on a red arrow not turning, when they can. There's usually a symphony of horns but they don't catch on.

That happens there too?  I thought it only happened here in Florida.  Here, too we have people who sit at lights with a green right turn arrow saying its okay to turn.  As we know a green arrow is the same as a green ball as well, but some people are idiots.  Remember the flashing yellow arrow because some drivers cannot tell the difference between a protected left turn and and non protected turn with just the arrow at the beginning and allowed to turn on regular green.  If they cannot tell the difference there on that one, then expect it on right turns red or green arrows.

[Ace10]

There's definitely a patchwork of laws on whether or not it's legal to turn right on a red arrow. I know in California and Idaho it is not legal, but in states like Washington, Oregon, Mississippi, and Florida, it is legal.

Do you ever think someday we'll see something like a flashing red arrow to universally permit turning right on red (after stop), and a solid red arrow to universally mean such a turn is prohibited on red? That way, the meaning and legality are consistent across all 50 states. Of course these would be mostly for dedicated turn lanes only - intersections getting by just fine with red balls could likely stay that way.

I'd also want to advocate for a flashing red left arrow to denote turning left on red is legal onto one-way streets. Here in Oregon and Washington, a left on red onto a one-way (or freeway onramp) is legal, even from a two-way street. Seemed a bit odd to me at first (I grew up in the southeast and had never heard of such a legal maneuver), but after doing it a few times, it makes complete sense to me, and I'm happy to live somewhere where I can do that legally. Problem is, a ton of people around here have no idea it's legal, and just sit at the red light when there's little to no traffic and when they can safely make a turn. Some intersections have the flashing yellow arrow, but of course the arrow is red when cross traffic has green, but the turn can still be made legally. If the left turn arrows in this situation flashed red, people would know that they could turn on red after stopping and yielding to all other traffic and pedestrians.

[Rothman]

Does WA consider a red right arrow to mean no turn on red?

They don't. Red balls and red arrows are synonymous. It's a little annoying to come to an off-ramp of a freeway, and some tourist is sitting there on a red arrow not turning, when they can. There's usually a symphony of horns but they don't catch on.

From New York DMV:

Red Arrow: Do not go in the direction of the arrow until the red arrow light is of and a green light or arrow light goes on. A right or left turn on red is not permitted at a red arrow.

Be careful.

[kkt]

There's definitely a patchwork of laws on whether or not it's legal to turn right on a red arrow. I know in California and Idaho it is not legal, but in states like Washington, Oregon, Mississippi, and Florida, it is legal.

Right turn on red is legal in California, in fact California invented the legal right turn on red (at least according to Annie Hall and this legislative report http://www.cga.ct.gov/ps99/rpt/olr/htm/99-r-1021.htm

And according to Wikipedia, right turn on red is now the rule in all 50 states, although some cities (notably New York) have citywide laws against RTOR.

Red arrow.

Yes, I saw that right after posting and removed my post.  But not soon enough.

[jeffandnicole]

Does WA consider a red right arrow to mean no turn on red?

They don't. Red balls and red arrows are synonymous. It's a little annoying to come to an off-ramp of a freeway, and some tourist is sitting there on a red arrow not turning, when they can. There's usually a symphony of horns but they don't catch on.

From New York DMV:

Red Arrow: Do not go in the direction of the arrow until the red arrow light is of and a green light or arrow light goes on. A right or left turn on red is not permitted at a red arrow.

Be careful.

I think he was specifically referencing WA.

[Rothman]

Does WA consider a red right arrow to mean no turn on red?

They don't. Red balls and red arrows are synonymous. It's a little annoying to come to an off-ramp of a freeway, and some tourist is sitting there on a red arrow not turning, when they can. There's usually a symphony of horns but they don't catch on.

From New York DMV:

Red Arrow: Do not go in the direction of the arrow until the red arrow light is of and a green light or arrow light goes on. A right or left turn on red is not permitted at a red arrow.

Be careful.

I think he was specifically referencing WA.

Yeah; I was just sloppy in joining the overall conversation about "right turn on red arrow."

[Brandon]

I'd also want to advocate for a flashing red left arrow to denote turning left on red is legal onto one-way streets. Here in Oregon and Washington, a left on red onto a one-way (or freeway onramp) is legal, even from a two-way street. Seemed a bit odd to me at first (I grew up in the southeast and had never heard of such a legal maneuver), but after doing it a few times, it makes complete sense to me, and I'm happy to live somewhere where I can do that legally.

It's also legal in Michigan to turn left on red from a two-way street to a one-way street including freeway entrance ramps.

[Ace10]

I'd also want to advocate for a flashing red left arrow to denote turning left on red is legal onto one-way streets. Here in Oregon and Washington, a left on red onto a one-way (or freeway onramp) is legal, even from a two-way street. Seemed a bit odd to me at first (I grew up in the southeast and had never heard of such a legal maneuver), but after doing it a few times, it makes complete sense to me, and I'm happy to live somewhere where I can do that legally.

It's also legal in Michigan to turn left on red from a two-way street to a one-way street including freeway entrance ramps.

I haven't read up on Michigan's laws. Is that turn legal on a red arrow, or just a red ball? The two other states in which it's legal to turn left from a two-way to a one-way on red are Alaska and Idaho I believe; however, Idaho permits the turn only on a red ball, not on a red arrow. Washington and Oregon make no distinction between an arrow and ball in regards to turns on red.

[Brandon]

I'd also want to advocate for a flashing red left arrow to denote turning left on red is legal onto one-way streets. Here in Oregon and Washington, a left on red onto a one-way (or freeway onramp) is legal, even from a two-way street. Seemed a bit odd to me at first (I grew up in the southeast and had never heard of such a legal maneuver), but after doing it a few times, it makes complete sense to me, and I'm happy to live somewhere where I can do that legally.

It's also legal in Michigan to turn left on red from a two-way street to a one-way street including freeway entrance ramps.

I haven't read up on Michigan's laws. Is that turn legal on a red arrow, or just a red ball? The two other states in which it's legal to turn left from a two-way to a one-way on red are Alaska and Idaho I believe; however, Idaho permits the turn only on a red ball, not on a red arrow. Washington and Oregon make no distinction between an arrow and ball in regards to turns on red.

A red ball equals a red arrow in both Michigan and Illinois, and are treated the same.

[mrsman]

I had only asked earlier about WA's right turn on red arrow law to try to make sense of the signal that Jakeroot posted.

But one thing that is clear given the conversation above is that it is a problem that there are different laws regarding right turn on red arrow, left turn on red, and other laws heralds the need for one set of national standards with regard to traffic laws.

So, given that most states have a no left on red onto a one-way that should be the national default.  For any intersection where the turn is permitted, it can be permitted with a sign"  "Left Turn on Red Permitted after Stop".

Similarly, I'm opposed to NYC's blanket rule against No Turn on Red, because it conflicts with teh national default.  I beleive that a sign should be posted <i> at every intersection </i> that it is warranted.

[cl94]

Here's an odd one- Slade Ave at Ridge Rd/US 219/I-90 in West Seneca, NY. Both turns are protected-only and each movement only gets one signal face (a big no-no). Top section in each face is a red arrow, middle is a circular yellow, and the bottom is a bimodal yellow/green arrow. I do not know if the middle section ever illuminates. I do not know if this is an NYSDOT or county install, but the name blades and NTOR signage are clearly NYSDOT.

[UCFKnights]

Signal replacement...

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.565335,-81.165705,3a,15y,20.19h,93.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svlGY1Unwz9Zhwb4r60XfBA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

They're even replacing entire mast arms that are very new:
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.565506,-81.194896,3a,51.5y,37.12h,82.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0MB4xVYRcR1LCUkpgwz0Lg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

They're doing a few in X patterns for the wire mounted, I hate that:
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.566921,-81.207421,3a,75y,287.69h,76.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sofcgqYOVF-FSwKJtsgY9kQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Mast arms built in 2011 with a bracket to extend it for this construction project being replaced by wires:
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.568762,-81.223554,3a,75y,270.23h,84.49t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sz6p4mlPZ-sRZToEWFb7zGw!2e0!5s20150401T000000!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1