Traffic signal

[thenetwork]

Here is an intersection in Lorain County/N. Ridgeville, OH with an "antique" 12-8-8-8! 

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=google+maps+elyria+oh&ll=41.38312,-82.058086&spn=0.000258,0.153637&hnear=Elyria,+Lorain,+Ohio&gl=us&t=m&z=13&layer=c&cbll=41.383113,-82.058345&panoid=_s1-XmEYd-QvDMm-Lt_5nw&cbp=12,250.2,,0,8.56

[signalman]

^8 inch arrows to boot!  Great find

[thenetwork]

^8 inch arrows to boot!  Great find

Lorain County in general is a haven for old traffic lights and roadways (Especially Northern Lorain County: Amherst/Lorain/Elyria).  It's a poorer county in general and it's hard for the county and the local municipalities to upgrade and/or replace their 40-50 year old signals -- good for us geeks, though!!!

In fact, if you look at that google maps photo, you'll notice that there is only one signal for thru traffic in each direction, so if a light burns out, it can instantly screw up the traffic going in the direction of the signal.

[agentsteel53]

Lorain County in general is a haven for old traffic lights and roadways (Especially Northern Lorain County: Amherst/Lorain/Elyria).  It's a poorer county in general and it's hard for the county and the local municipalities to upgrade and/or replace their 40-50 year old signals -- good for us geeks, though!!!

Cincy is the same way.  lots of old signals there, as well as old signs.  a poster here named jjakucyk has made some great discoveries in that area: cutouts, state-named shields, and fancy art-deco traffic lights that date back to the 30s.

[M3019C LPS20]

I would like to know how NYC in Rockaway Beach, NY is allowed to operate amber less signals and only have two colors: red and green.  Both together are used to warn motorists of the change when the green time is up.  I have a photo of the red and green both on at the same time back in 03 along the beach where they are still used unless it was modified since then.  Plus, how does the signal work in flash mode?  It must only be a four way stop flashing red on all signals, or does like Boston does and flashes the green at some intersections on the dominate roadway instead of the yellow.

Sadly, they're long gone.

A handful of survivors remained in service on Shore Front Pkwy. until 2006 or so. Three-section (red, amber, and green) traffic signals now control the entire length. I vaguely remember those two-section traffic signals from the Rockaways; however, I remember the survivors from mainly Ozone Park in Queens. Quite a handful were still in service on mainly one segment of Liberty Avenue (under the el) in the early to mid 2000s. The last survivor was removed on that segment of Liberty Avenue in 2007, which was not quite long ago.

What's interesting to mention, too, is that some of these were equipped with L.E.D. module inserts in the early 2000s. Most of the old traffic signals were untouched, while newly installed (then) two-section traffic signals from Eagle Mark 4 were installed with them. It was rather interesting to see these.


With regards to flash mode, it is likely (in my opinion) that they were simply dark in that particular mode of operation. I think someone might have mentioned that to me at one time or another.

[NYhwyfan]

Here is an intersection in Lorain County/N. Ridgeville, OH with an "antique" 12-8-8-8! 

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=google+maps+elyria+oh&ll=41.38312,-82.058086&spn=0.000258,0.153637&hnear=Elyria,+Lorain,+Ohio&gl=us&t=m&z=13&layer=c&cbll=41.383113,-82.058345&panoid=_s1-XmEYd-QvDMm-Lt_5nw&cbp=12,250.2,,0,8.56

Nice find. Sign next to primary also says "opposong traffic moves on your light" - never seen that

"http://maps.google.com/maps?q=google+maps+elyria+oh&ll=41.382991,-82.058773&spn=0.068134,0.154324&hnear=Elyria,+Lorain,+Ohio&gl=us&t=m&layer=c&cbll=41.383038,-82.058592&panoid=GlI6wF3SeWufQ29KuuZRvw&cbp=12,161.9,,0,-21.37&z=13

[thenetwork]

That's be

Here is an intersection in Lorain County/N. Ridgeville, OH with an "antique" 12-8-8-8! 

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=google+maps+elyria+oh&ll=41.38312,-82.058086&spn=0.000258,0.153637&hnear=Elyria,+Lorain,+Ohio&gl=us&t=m&z=13&layer=c&cbll=41.383113,-82.058345&panoid=_s1-XmEYd-QvDMm-Lt_5nw&cbp=12,250.2,,0,8.56

Nice find. Sign next to primary also says "opposong traffic moves on your light" - never seen that

"http://maps.google.com/maps?q=google+maps+elyria+oh&ll=41.382991,-82.058773&spn=0.068134,0.154324&hnear=Elyria,+Lorain,+Ohio&gl=us&t=m&layer=c&cbll=41.383038,-82.058592&panoid=GlI6wF3SeWufQ29KuuZRvw&cbp=12,161.9,,0,-21.37&z=13

That's because there are a few intersections in N. Ridgeville where the side roads at the intersection do not line up across from each other so some of those intesections will have separate green signals. 

Glad to see that they finally tore down the huge mostly-abandoned shopping center that sat empty for most of it's 50+ year history.

[NYhwyfan]

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=google+maps+elyria+oh&ll=41.377775,-82.076068&spn=0.016262,0.038581&hnear=Elyria,+Lorain,+Ohio&gl=us&t=m&layer=c&cbll=41.377817,-82.075967&panoid=QYMMeeTS1iQyolhFJ_9Eaw&cbp=12,253.48,,0,-6.31&z=15

Intersection down the road from the above
12-8-12 left turn signal along with 12-8-8 thru signals

[roadman65]

Here is something unusual that I discovered while cruising through GSV.  Three mast arms on one signal pole.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Newark,+NJ&hl=en&ll=40.733584,-74.164249&spn=0.003016,0.005686&sll=27.698638,-83.804601&sspn=7.213306,11.645508&oq=newark&t=h&hnear=Newark,+Essex,+New+Jersey&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.733656,-74.164303&panoid=zRW_mSRAu17U6ATj0l5kPQ&cbp=12,129.44,,0,0

You just do not see something like this everyday.

[US71]

From what I've seen, 12-8-8 signals are still being installed in Ontario.

Baton Rouge has a few on Bus 61/190
http://goo.gl/maps/rUCWc

I got some photos, but they didn't come out well

[M3019C LPS20]

A span-wire set-up in New York City is uncommon, and only a handful are in existence. Below, are three signalized from the borough of Staten Island in the city. Each one uses a span-wire set-up.

Richmond Avenue and Arthur Kill Road. Mainly 12" Eagle Alusig traffic signals here. Note that the use of a doghouse (far left) is here. There's another one in use, but it cannot be viewed in this picture. A doghouse set-up is a signal configuration that is uncommon as well in the city of New York, and only a handful are in useful service. Picture from Bing Maps.



Second set-up. At Drumgoole Road West and Richmond Avenue. Made up of 12-8-8 Eagle Alusig and Automatic Signal/L.F.E. traffic signals. Picture from Bing Maps.



Drumgoole Road W. and Arthur Kill Road. Made up of mainly 12-8-8 Eagle Alusig traffic signals here as well. Picture from Bing Maps.

[US71]

I found this is Meadville, MS a couple weeks ago, but is only in Flash mode. Another one, a few blocks down, is still in full service.

[Alps]

A span-wire set-up in New York City is uncommon

Below, are three signalized from the borough of Staten Island

Are there any in the ACTUAL city? Like, the boroughs that matter?

[M3019C LPS20]

Are there any in the ACTUAL city? Like, the boroughs that matter?

When I mention New York City, I generally refer to all of the five boroughs that make up the city. So, Staten Island does matter to me.

With regards to Manhattan, to my knowledge, the set-up does not exist there. On Staten Island, there are a total of four that I am aware of. I do not have a picture of the fourth one at the moment. Aside from that borough, there are a handful (I can't remember the exact number off the top of my head) that exist in Queens. They're at John F. Kennedy Int'l Airport.

[signalman]

I could have sworn that I saw a spanwire installation in Brooklyn.  Not sure where in Brooklyn it was, but it looked to be an old installation.  This was probably 10 years ago or so when I saw it.  It may have since been replaced.

[M3019C LPS20]

I could have sworn that I saw a spanwire installation in Brooklyn.  Not sure where in Brooklyn it was, but it looked to be an old installation.  This was probably 10 years ago or so when I saw it.  It may have since been replaced.

Aside from what I mentioned in my previous comment, I am sure there are some others scattered throughout the five boroughs of the city.

What I forgot to mention, too, is that there a couple that exist on one segment of Jamaica Avenue (under the el) in Queens.

[Alps]

Are there any in the ACTUAL city? Like, the boroughs that matter?

When I mention New York City, I generally refer to all of the five boroughs that make up the city. So, Staten Island does matter to me.

With regards to Manhattan, to my knowledge, the set-up does not exist there. On Staten Island, there are a total of four that I am aware of. I do not have a picture of the fourth one at the moment. Aside from that borough, there are a handful (I can't remember the exact number off the top of my head) that exist in Queens. They're at John F. Kennedy Int'l Airport.

JFK is under Port Authority jurisdiction, so they make their own rules.

[M3019C LPS20]

JFK is under Port Authority jurisdiction, so they make their own rules.

Even so, if I recall correctly, J.F.K. falls within the borough of Queens, since it is not located outside of New York City.

I understand your point, though, which you are correct. Although the P.A. operates them, I would consider them part of New York City in my humble opinion.

[roadman65]

Question about what the MUTCD considers to be an 'overhead assembly?'  I was noticing that in NYC there are places where signal heads are side mounted on a pole, but at the same height that the mast arm would be attached thus making it the same distance from the ground as those on arms or span wires.

Places like Fifth Avenue in Midtown, you will see two high mounted signal heads (or did see) on the corners to replace some of the old bracket type mast arms that graced that particular street for years.  I was wondering if the MUTCD allows for that being it is overhead, but at the same time it is not overhead?

Then also how is NYC allowed to have only one signal head per intersection on Park Avenue between 46th and 56th Streets, as these signals were erected in modern times after the MUTCD required a minimum of two straight through assemblies?  I was reading in Wikipedia, that the underground Metro North Tunnel prevents standard signals to be allowed, hence the tall mast pole in the median that supports the four way signal heads.  That I do not believe, as the tunnel continues beyond 56th Street where normal (or at least for NYC) installations occur, even if it were true would the FHWA make an acception?

[M3019C LPS20]

Question about what the MUTCD considers to be an 'overhead assembly?'  I was noticing that in NYC there are places where signal heads are side mounted on a pole, but at the same height that the mast arm would be attached thus making it the same distance from the ground as those on arms or span wires.

Places like Fifth Avenue in Midtown, you will see two high mounted signal heads (or did see) on the corners to replace some of the old bracket type mast arms that graced that particular street for years.  I was wondering if the MUTCD allows for that being it is overhead, but at the same time it is not overhead?

That kind of set-up is common to see throughout the five boroughs (not only in Manhattan), mind you. If you were the first motorist at a signalized intersection that uses this set-up, chances are you would not see the suspended traffic signal above you (that depends on where it is placed). Instead of straining your neck to view it, you'd rely on that traffic signal ahead of you. Improves visibility, really. My knowledge about New York City and its relation to the M.U.T.C.D. is limited, but I would assume it is appropriate to use (if necessary).

Also, truck traffic in New York City could be hectic at times, so the likely reason that most are highly elevated is that the city doesn't want them to be clipped by large vehicles that make turns at corners. Back in the old days, when two-section (red and green) traffic signals were the norm throughout New York City, many that were attached to pedestals had short visors attached to them, and they were generally pretty close to corners at intersections. The one side that faced the curb generally had only one pair. This prevented them from being clipped. Early three-section traffic signals in the city used them as well, but they are no longer in use nowadays.

Then also how is NYC allowed to have only one signal head per intersection on Park Avenue between 46th and 56th Streets, as these signals were erected in modern times after the MUTCD required a minimum of two straight through assemblies?  I was reading in Wikipedia, that the underground Metro North Tunnel prevents standard signals to be allowed, hence the tall mast pole in the median that supports the four way signal heads.  That I do not believe, as the tunnel continues beyond 56th Street where normal (or at least for NYC) installations occur, even if it were true would the FHWA make an acception?

Actually, the city fought with the train system for many years, since the city's original intention was to standardize them on that particular segment. The fear was that the mast-arm/guy wire set-up would interfere with the tunnels below ground, since I recall this set-up is placed fairly deep below street level. It was not until in recent years, though, that the city and Metro North finally came to an agreement. With that said, the intersections were standardized, and the original traffic signals are long gone. 

[roadman65]

Actually, I think the mounted high side signals are a real help and come to think of it, I now remember seeing them in Dallas, TX.  I hope the MUTCD does consider them to be the same as those over the intersection.

New Jersey  even has a few places that use them for Left Turn Signals as well as supplementary signals attached where the mast arm extends in many places. 

I do not see though why deep tunnels would create a problem above for mast arms, especially when the rest of Park Avenue has them over the same tunnels?

[roadfro]

I don't believe the MUTCD considers a pole-mounted signal head as overhead, even if placed at the same height as an overhead signal. The key is overhead signals are in front of the driver (typically centered over the lane the signal controls).

[M3019C LPS20]

I always liked this pedestrian signal from the Brazilian company Peterco. New York City installed it in the late 1980s. It was similar to the 16" Winko-Matic VI 2L AG pedestrian signal that was in use at the time, but that had a different louver.

An interesting characteristic about this one in particular is that each signal indication appeared quite bright in the middle, in which the incandescent light bulb was located. This was normally noticeable at night.

[cpzilliacus]

There are 12-8-8's along Va. 120 (Glebe Road) in Arlington County, Va.  12-8-8's were once pretty common in Northern Virginia, but most of them are now gone.  The intersection of Va. 120 (South Glebe Road) at West Glebe Road (which runs south of South Glebe Road into the City of Alexandria) and Four Mile Run Drive has had 12-8-8's for a long time, but they  are almost done, as new mastarms with all-12's have been installed but not yet hooked-up.

Southbound Va. 120 (the Pizza Hut in the distance is in Alexandria):


Southbound or eastbound Four Mile Run Drive:


Westbound West Glebe Road:


Northbound Va. 120:


EDIT: Added hyperlink and made a few corrections.

[cpzilliacus]

But on Va. 120 (North Glebe Road) at Carlin Springs Road these 12-8-8's will apparently be there for a while yet:

Northbound Va. 120:


Eastbound Carlin Springs Road:


EDIT: Added hyperlink.