Traffic signal

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/wcJjvTYXtpLwr7x77
Couldn't help notice that Puerto Rico is adopting the yellow border back plates on their traffic signals like many states are now using.

I'm guessing that the MUTCD applies not only in the fifty states but in US Territories as well.

[roadfro]

At the southbound off-ramp from WA-3 to Kitsap Way in Bremerton, the original 12-8-12-12 signal was replaced by a 12-8-8-8 signal sometime in early 2018. Yes, an 8-inch green arrow replaced a 12-inch green arrow:

Before: https://goo.gl/maps/GPfm3VQWb5PBoW6F7

After: https://goo.gl/maps/KgsTX7dL5hDuGxH28

The entire intersection was resignalized in the last year.

Interesting. I didn't think 8-inch arrows were allowed anymore...even 8-inch signal heads aren't allowed except for very specific circumstances outlined in the MUTCD.

[Big John]

^^I believe 8" arrows were disallowed with the 1971 MUTCD. That looks like a patch-up setup with an 8" 3-section head.

[SignBridge]

Roadfro, 8" heads are generally still permitted by the 2009 MUTCD. What very specific circumstances are you talking about?

Regrettably Nassau County, NY DPW and NYS DOT still use them facing side streets at intersections with main roads.

[Big John]

MUTCD 4D.07

03 Eight-inch circular signal indications may be used in new signal faces only for:

The green or flashing yellow signal indications in an emergency-vehicle traffic control signal (see Section 4G.02);
The circular indications in signal faces controlling the approach to the downstream location where two adjacent signalized locations are close to each other and it is not practical because of factors such as high approach speeds, horizontal or vertical curves, or other geometric factors to install visibility-limited signal faces for the downstream approach;
The circular indications in a signal face that is located less than 120 feet from the stop line on a roadway with a posted or statutory speed limit of 30 mph or less;
The circular indications in a supplemental near-side signal face:
The circular indications in a supplemental signal face installed for the sole purpose of controlling pedestrian movements (see Section 4D.03) rather than vehicular movements; and
The circular indications in a signal face installed for the sole purpose of controlling a bikeway or a bicycle movement.

[SignBridge]

Thanks Big John. Some of those very specific circumstances that Roadfro alluded to cover a lot of side streets intersecting main roads such as I mentioned. Specifically where it says signals heads less than 120 ft. from the stop line (which describes most signals) on roads with speed limits no higher than 30mph. (most side streets). Those rules would also apply in urban areas where two intersecting streets only have one lane in each direction with a 25 or 30mph speed limit.

So that actually allows 8" heads at thousands of intersections nationwide and so they are still widely permitted. I'm not defending their continued use; just clarifying what's allowed by the Manual. 

[PurdueBill]

Thanks Big John. Some of those very specific circumstances that Roadfro alluded to cover a lot of side streets intersecting main roads such as I mentioned. Specifically where it says signals heads less than 120 ft. from the stop line (which describes most signals) on roads with speed limits no higher than 30mph. (most side streets). Those rules would also apply in urban areas where two intersecting streets only have one lane in each direction with a 25 or 30mph speed limit.

So that actually allows 8" heads at thousands of intersections nationwide and so they are still widely permitted. I'm not defending their continued use; just clarifying what's allowed by the Manual. 

8-inch heads are definitely useful on roads with lower speeds where these days' ultra-bright LEDs in 12-inch size are overkill.  Down the street on my 25-mph street where it intersects another 25-mph street there is a signal due to school and park pedestrian volume.  The quite old 12-8-8s in all directions (on a single diagonal spanwire) were to be "upgraded" in 2022 along with two other similar intersections nearby.  The city slammed the brakes on it after two pairs (northbound and eastbound) were replaced, as the new 12-12-12s in bright LED bathe nearby houses in light all night.  You can see them through the thick arborvitaes at my house 6 houses away whereas the old ones, which had some incandescents still and some 8-inch replacement LEDS, were not so shrill.  It didn't help that the city was having the old signals "upgraded" with the help of the county who is known for crappy-looking signals--mismatched visors, mismatched paint jobs, etc. and that is exactly what the beautiful old Crouse-Hinds 12-8-8s were replaced with--mishmashes of different brands so the backs are all different, some black and some yellow housings, and some with cutaway and some with tunnel visors, all on the same assemblies.  Between the general crap appearance and the signals bathing several houses with light they never used to get (think Jerry Seinfeld trying to sleep with Kenny Rogers Roasters sign shining through the curtains), I can see why the city slammed the brakes on the "upgrade" and is keeping the rest of the 12-8-8s for now at this and the other intersections.  8-inch signals still have a place in all the spots the MUTCD lists.  Suitable for high-speed approaces? Nope.  Slower streets?  Fine.

[jakeroot]

This "stem" approach to a T-intersection in Tucson, AZ has a near-side green orb, but the far-side signals are all-arrow left and right turn displays:

https://goo.gl/maps/whYKvRfJrsjngEEt9

Definitely left-over from the old setup where all signals were RYG orbs.

Technically not compliant because it's a shared left-right turn lane, and the near-side display doesn't match the far-side displays. I suppose the best option would be a 5-section near-side signal with left and right arrows.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

This "stem" approach to a T-intersection in Tucson, AZ has a near-side green orb, but the far-side signals are all-arrow left and right turn displays:

https://goo.gl/maps/whYKvRfJrsjngEEt9

Definitely left-over from the old setup where all signals were RYG orbs.

Technically not compliant because it's a shared left-right turn lane, and the near-side display doesn't match the far-side displays. I suppose the best option would be a 5-section near-side signal with left and right arrows.

Maybe that was kept for visibility in case a driver is following a light rail vehicle and can't see the far side arrows. Keeping RYG orbs IMO would be better than stuffing 2 near side signals on that one pole

[jakeroot]

This "stem" approach to a T-intersection in Tucson, AZ has a near-side green orb, but the far-side signals are all-arrow left and right turn displays:

https://goo.gl/maps/whYKvRfJrsjngEEt9

Definitely left-over from the old setup where all signals were RYG orbs.

Technically not compliant because it's a shared left-right turn lane, and the near-side display doesn't match the far-side displays. I suppose the best option would be a 5-section near-side signal with left and right arrows.

Maybe that was kept for visibility in case a driver is following a light rail vehicle and can't see the far side arrows. Keeping RYG orbs IMO would be better than stuffing 2 near side signals on that one pole

Definitely, I'm sure that's why it kept.

What I was thinking was a 5-section tower, with a red orb up top but left and right arrows below (in whatever order they need to be), likely bimodal.

[steviep24]

Spotted these this morning. The back plates on these have a lime green/yellow stripe instead of the normal shade of yellow.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1060819,-77.5769019,3a,15y,186.1h,97.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLz02QPU2UoKzfYbYC8ZK2Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&authuser=0

[BuildTheRussian]

Yellow traffic lights in Russia. Very very rare to see.
https://www.google.com/maps/@64.433535,76.4840061,3a,35.6y,272.73h,89.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRHCEHwJlJCnyf4yPlg1N6g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

They look pretty new, any idea what the story is here? All-yellow signals are pretty rare in Europe and Asia, period.

I couldn't find much information about them on the web, but it seems that these yellow traffic lights can only be found in the town of Gubkinskiy.

Actually I was wrong. In June 2022, they installed yellow signal heads at a few intersections in the city of Ivanovo
https://yandex.ru/maps/5/ivanovo/?l=mrc&ll=40.971935%2C57.016266&mrc%5Bid%5D=850226306&z=17.08

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/gKmdWrEPd3fPYAXk7
The base of a former traffic signal.

Instead of removing everything, they kept the base and put a cap over where the pole was once attached.

Cheesy I must say.

[Big John]

^^Tripping hazard in a sidewalk.

[BuildTheRussian]

https://goo.gl/maps/gKmdWrEPd3fPYAXk7
The base of a former traffic signal.

Instead of removing everything, they kept the base and put a cap over where the pole was once attached.

Cheesy I must say.

Why was there a traffic signal in the first place? At a quiet intersection in the middle of a residential area.

[SignBridge]

Those look like thru streets to me, even if they are in a residential area.

[thenetwork]

https://goo.gl/maps/gKmdWrEPd3fPYAXk7
The base of a former traffic signal.

Instead of removing everything, they kept the base and put a cap over where the pole was once attached.

Cheesy I must say.

Why was there a traffic signal in the first place? At a quiet intersection in the middle of a residential area.

There is/was a Middle school one bock away...

[BuildTheRussian]

I thought the normal practice in that case was to have a 4-way stop, not a traffic light.

[Big John]

I thought the normal practice in that case was to have a 4-way stop, not a traffic light.

For traffic signal warrants, there is a more lenient school warrant for school zones but a crossing guard is needed if utilized on its own. 50th

[CovalenceSTU]

Red and yellow straight arrows on WA-4 in Longview/Kelso, which appeared during an intersection redesign in 2014:


Left turns aren't allowed here but the sign mentioning that was removed (to make room for the 3rd signal) and never replaced, so these arrows are now the only thing suggesting you can't turn left.


This one is rather pointless as both left and right turns are allowed from here, but Catlin St (the road straight ahead) has since been widened so it's likely not there anymore.

https://goo.gl/maps/oAUjduG773FdadT99

[plain]

They were probably trying to emphasize that particular lane is thru only (based on the 5-section tower to the right of it for right turns).

WA seems to be the state with the most red up arrows still left around.

[plain]

Totally unrelated to the discussion above, I find these signals in Dayton rather weird.

I used to see 8-8-12 signals a lot (especially in Baltimore) but they were always used for turn signals. Here, they have them as thru signals with green up arrows.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/4MWsyFzXZh14McdG8

At the same intersection, an 8-12-12 right turn signal
https://maps.app.goo.gl/SryKwtuSQYoaqXS56

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/BiJuuH9VMt8ePGSA7
Here is one in Surrey, BC that I find most interesting. A left, a through, and right turn signal at one direction of an intersection.  Because the long queues from truck traffic entering the US, the local or provincial road agency developed this unusual traffic configuration.

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/nJJDxgGPAZUhSRU59
At the same intersection above^ I got a more closeup look at the opposing sides left turn signal assembly. Never have i seen two mast arms welded together like this.  Growing up in NJ it's more than common to see two mast arms attached to the same pole, but not like this equally spurring away from each other. In New Jersey they're bolted to the top of the pole.

[CovalenceSTU]

They were probably trying to emphasize that particular lane is thru only (based on the 5-section tower to the right of it for right turns).

WA seems to be the state with the most red up arrows still left around.

That's what I figured, as it has one lane for each direction (and a neutral zone intended to be a future lane). I found it interesting they were installed so recently though - the previous setup (as seen on 2012 Street View) had no red or yellow arrows at all, even when it was an MUTCD violation of its own:

https://goo.gl/maps/BiJuuH9VMt8ePGSA7
Here is one in Surrey, BC that I find most interesting. A left, a through, and right turn signal at one direction of an intersection.  Because the long queues from truck traffic entering the US, the local or provincial road agency developed this unusual traffic configuration.

Also using arrows for thru traffic and circles for the turns, that has to be an uncommon setup.

While it's a different scenario, it reminds me of an intersection in China with an entrance too close so (in addition to the main road's left turn lane) the entrance had a left turn lane in-between the thru lanes.