Traffic signal

[jakeroot]

Puyallup and neighbouring Fife seem to be doing lots of work in preperation for the WA SR 167 extension: http://goo.gl/gxU6Cn

I'm confused. Why would you use the Goog as a URL shortener? It makes me think it's a link to Google Maps.

I use Goo.gl because, as long as I'm logged in to my Google Account, I can keep track of my shortened links. That way in case they break (which I believe they do), I can repair it rather easily.

^^ A signal like that is used where approaching traffic may not be able to see the main signals at design speed.  They are most common where there is a horizontal curve at or near the intersection.

I think you know my city better than me.

[PColumbus73]

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=los+angeles&ll=34.00362,-118.239155&spn=0.00206,0.002411&hnear=Los+Angeles,+Los+Angeles+County,+California&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=34.003716,-118.239163&panoid=MZ21LrAfDBwO_U7K9UBepA&cbp=12,13.15,,3,-5.19

Here's another one of California's Red Ball - Red Arrow traffic lights. This one is on Alameda Street in Los Angeles. There are about three altogether on Alameda between 41st and 55th Streets.

[Joe The Dragon]

very odd why not build that as a dual one way pair?

[mrsman]

Not necessarily.  That depends on how California defines red arrows (if they do at all, some states have no definition of what a red arrow means).

They do.  A red arrow means you're not permitted to turn until you get a green light or green arrow.

Before the advent of the red arrows, California used signals with red and yellow balls and a green arrow supplemented with a "LEFT OR U-TURN ON GREEN ARROW ONLY" sign posted below the signal.

As stated, the red right arrow indicates no right turn while the arrow is lit.  The no turn on red sign also indicates no turn on red.  Yet I'm still perplexed as to why both are signed.  It would be simpler to have a standard red-yellow-green with a no turn on red sign, why create a new light that is weird and would confuse most drivers and is probably not compliant with the MUTCD outside of California.

Is this a new standard in California?  I grew up in California, and while I was living there, (up until 12 years ago) I never saw a traffic signal like this.  The only thing that may make sense is to have a light that prohibits a right turn on red for part of the red through cycle*, but allows it for the other part of the red cycle.
Yet, I don't believe that the signal on Sepulveda is timed that way. 


* Imagine the following scenario (traffic signal timing) [Ignoring yellow light and all red phases]

1) N-S street has a green light.  E-W street has a red light.
2) N-S street has a red light.  E-W street has a red light.  E-W street shows a green arrow to allow left turns from E-W to N-S.  In California, you'd typically see a corresponding green right turn arrow from N-S to E-W provided that there is a right turn only lane and provided No U-turns are allowed on the E-W.  Let's assume that U-turns are allowed here.
3) E-W street has a green light.

Now let's say that we would like to permit a right turn from N-S to E-W during phase 2 (since the only possible conflict is with U-turns) but disallow the right turn during phase 3.  The only way I've seen currently that provides for this set-up are electronic "No turn on red signs" that light up during phase 3, but not during phase 2.  Perhaps this new signal has the red right arrow only lit up during phase 3, but not during phase 2, thereby allowing for a right turn during phase 2 but not during phase 3.  This would brilliantly solve the problem to allow the right turn during part of the phase, without having to wire a special sign, because the message of being allowed to turn is conveyed in the signal itself.

[Yet that can't be the case here because the No turn on red sign would still prohibit the turn during phase 2.]

If we had a similar light sequence, but U-turns were prohibited, the standard way of allowing for the right turn in phase 2, but prohibiting it in phase 3, would be to have a green right arrow during phase 2 only and a very clear "No turn on red sign."

For the light at Alameda and Vernon, part of the problem is having two parallel roads (Big Alameda and little Alameda) so close together.  I don't know the sequencing here, but perhaps they allow Big Alameda to go straight and right, while Little Alameda has a red, allow both Alamedas to go straight and disallow all turns, and then allow LIttle Alameda to go straight and right while Big Alameda had a red.  The red arrow might indicate when the right turn can't be made and may be lit during part of the green phase as well.

If anyone frequents these corners, please let us know the timing and let us know if our theories are off-base.

[mrsman]

very odd why not build that as a dual one way pair?

In California, through many streets that follow railroad corridors, you'd see the railroad being placed in the median and a dual one way pair as you suggest.  (See Exposition Blvd near USC, for example).

In other corridors, you have a street that is up against a railroad on one side only.  See Valley Blvd in the City of Industry as an example of that.  In that case, you'd have minor streets that are south of the railroad end at Valley and minor streets north of the railroad end at a cul de sac.

In other corridors, you may have a situation similar to Valley Blvd, but instead of ending at cul-de-sacs, the streets to the north end at a minor street that is parallel to the railroad.  This minor street is typically not as wide as the major street and often is not continuous for more than a few blocks.  This minor street often has the same name as the big street on the other side of the railroad, because there are no addresses along the rail ROW.  The even numbers are south of the railroad on the main street and the odd numbers are north of the railroad on the minor street.  In many cases, they are nicknamed "Big San Fernando" or "Little San Fernando" to distinguish the streets.  You can see this along San Fernando Road in Sun Valley.  This is also the case along this stretch of Alameda.  There is an active railway that was recently undergrounded along this stretch (Alameda Corridor Project, express freight railway to the Harbor), but the street layout is similar to the way it was when the railroad was at grade.  Since little Alameda is much narrower than big Alameda, this is not a good place for a one-way pair, keep the majority of the traffic on big Alameda.

[PColumbus73]

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=hampstead+nc&ll=34.310459,-77.778116&spn=0.001026,0.001206&hnear=Hampstead,+Pender,+North+Carolina&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=34.310595,-77.777956&panoid=cW8iRCzh44I53XLu8Eazfg&cbp=12,170,,3,-5.26

Here is an interesting find in Wilmington, NC, a flashing yellow arrow signal with the arrow pointing up instead of the typical left. There are a couple more signals like this north of where US 17 bypasses Wilmington. I'm curious if those signals have the red arrow or the red ball.

Also, it is interesting to note that there are pole-mounted signals, which I have never seen in North Carolina.

[thenetwork]

I noticed that just a block up, there is another odd-looking FYA intersection.  Would this be an "inverted" jug handle??

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=hampstead+nc&ll=34.312007,-77.776152&spn=0.00138,0.00327&hnear=Hampstead,+Pender,+North+Carolina&t=h&z=19

[Brandon]

I noticed that just a block up, there is another odd-looking FYA intersection.  Would this be an "inverted" jug handle??

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=hampstead+nc&ll=34.312007,-77.776152&spn=0.00138,0.00327&hnear=Hampstead,+Pender,+North+Carolina&t=h&z=19

More like a Michigan Left with extra room for large vehicles to turn.  https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=42.922838,-86.147967&spn=0.001133,0.002642&t=h&z=19

[jeffandnicole]

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=hampstead+nc&ll=34.310459,-77.778116&spn=0.001026,0.001206&hnear=Hampstead,+Pender,+North+Carolina&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=34.310595,-77.777956&panoid=cW8iRCzh44I53XLu8Eazfg&cbp=12,170,,3,-5.26

Here is an interesting find in Wilmington, NC, a flashing yellow arrow signal with the arrow pointing up instead of the typical left. There are a couple more signals like this north of where US 17 bypasses Wilmington. I'm curious if those signals have the red arrow or the red ball.

Also, it is interesting to note that there are pole-mounted signals, which I have never seen in North Carolina.

When zoomed out, based on the position of the turn lane and traffic light, I see why the arrow is straight up. 

[PColumbus73]

Here is an interesting traffic light setup in Darlington, SC

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=darlington+sc&ll=34.303721,-79.872031&spn=0.000513,0.000603&hnear=Darlington,+South+Carolina&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=34.303721,-79.872031&panoid=Re-w7RuhCj2yifYxzoRA-w&cbp=12,74.71,,2,-5.03

[Brandon]

Here is an interesting traffic light setup in Darlington, SC

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=darlington+sc&ll=34.303721,-79.872031&spn=0.000513,0.000603&hnear=Darlington,+South+Carolina&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=34.303721,-79.872031&panoid=Re-w7RuhCj2yifYxzoRA-w&cbp=12,74.71,,2,-5.03

What's up with the double reds on each signal?

[Alex4897]

Here is an interesting traffic light setup in Darlington, SC

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=darlington+sc&ll=34.303721,-79.872031&spn=0.000513,0.000603&hnear=Darlington,+South+Carolina&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=34.303721,-79.872031&panoid=Re-w7RuhCj2yifYxzoRA-w&cbp=12,74.71,,2,-5.03

What's up with the double reds on each signal?

Emphasis?

[jakeroot]

Here is an interesting traffic light setup in Darlington, SC

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=darlington+sc&ll=34.303721,-79.872031&spn=0.000513,0.000603&hnear=Darlington,+South+Carolina&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=34.303721,-79.872031&panoid=Re-w7RuhCj2yifYxzoRA-w&cbp=12,74.71,,2,-5.03

What's up with the double reds on each signal?

Emphasis?

Damn near same setup in Old Town, Tacoma, WA on Ruston Way @ McCarver:

Hard to tell because it's those ridiculous angled-signals but it has a double red setup. If emphasis is the issue, not quite sure why the emphasis. If you click the image it takes you to the street view, where you can see it's perpendicular to a level crossing (BNSF railway). Maybe that's the reason?

[PColumbus73]

Here is an interesting traffic light setup in Darlington, SC

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=darlington+sc&ll=34.303721,-79.872031&spn=0.000513,0.000603&hnear=Darlington,+South+Carolina&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=34.303721,-79.872031&panoid=Re-w7RuhCj2yifYxzoRA-w&cbp=12,74.71,,2,-5.03

What's up with the double reds on each signal?

Emphasis?

Well, in South Carolina, the state uses double-red left turn signals for all single-lane protected left turns. It looks like both lanes don't proceed at the same time at this intersection. A similar situation occurs at the light immediately next to this intersection, although those lights are 3-sections

[PColumbus73]

Here is another interesting find in San Francisco at the intersection of Market Street and Eureka.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=1740+Cesar+Chavez+St,+San+Francisco,+San+Francisco+County,+California+94124&hl=en&ll=37.7618,-122.438359&spn=0.000491,0.000603&geocode=FR8GQAIdL2q0-A&hnear=1740+Cesar+Chavez+St,+San+Francisco,+San+Francisco+County,+California+94124&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=37.761711,-122.43835&panoid=EHv8GQdILZJlCZmTsobWGA&cbp=12,325.02,,3,-1.11

[roadman65]

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ontario,+CA/@34.06861,-117.593237,3a,75y,180h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sBe2JHavR_GPTV5ZoHCZfeg!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x80c334dbeadd627b:0x703e35af9583190  An interesting signal assembly on Archibald Avenue at the I-10 SPUI in Ontario, CA.  I thought I would share this as for CA this is a rarity to not have the typical Caltrans mast arms, but I guess because this is a Single Point Urban Interchange to be able to mount the signal heads they had to do something completely different.

[jakeroot]

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ontario,+CA/@34.06861,-117.593237,3a,75y,180h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sBe2JHavR_GPTV5ZoHCZfeg!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x80c334dbeadd627b:0x703e35af9583190  An interesting signal assembly on Archibald Avenue at the I-10 SPUI in Ontario, CA.  I thought I would share this as for CA this is a rarity to not have the typical Caltrans mast arms, but I guess because this is a Single Point Urban Interchange to be able to mount the signal heads they had to do something completely different.

I find that interchange most interesting because of the massive distance between the 10 East to Archibald South exit slip lane and the SPUI interchange. Seems like a second set of stop lines might be in order for traffic going south on Archibald, like when the 215 North meets Eucalyptus near March: http://goo.gl/IRrKcL

[KEK Inc.]

http://goo.gl/maps/D8Gao

Here's a more interesting California traffic light assembly for a SPUI.  Also, the sign gantries leading up to the intersection are through Warren Trusses on Taylor St.  Conventional Caltrans sign bridges are Pratt trusses.

[mrsman]

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ontario,+CA/@34.06861,-117.593237,3a,75y,180h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sBe2JHavR_GPTV5ZoHCZfeg!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x80c334dbeadd627b:0x703e35af9583190  An interesting signal assembly on Archibald Avenue at the I-10 SPUI in Ontario, CA.  I thought I would share this as for CA this is a rarity to not have the typical Caltrans mast arms, but I guess because this is a Single Point Urban Interchange to be able to mount the signal heads they had to do something completely different.

I find that interchange most interesting because of the massive distance between the 10 East to Archibald South exit slip lane and the SPUI interchange. Seems like a second set of stop lines might be in order for traffic going south on Archibald, like when the 215 North meets Eucalyptus near March: http://goo.gl/IRrKcL

What I really like about this interchange is at the southbound Archibald onramp to the 10 west, there is a traffic signal with pedestrian crossing lights.  Too many times on ramps like these, drivers speed up and it is very dangerous to cross at the crosswalk.  It shows that Caltrans took pedestrian safety into account.

Are there many pedestrians crossing here?  Not really relevant, because usually there's safety in numbers and the more dangerous crosswalks are for those who cross where peds are unexpected, even if legal.

I'd like to see this at the Harbor Blvd on-ramps to I-5 near Disneyland.  There are a lot of pedestrians who walk from Disneyland to the cheaper hotels north of Ball.

[M3019C LPS20]

Liberty Av. and 126th St. as it was in the early 2000s. Queens, New York.



At that time, many two-section (red and green) traffic signals were still in useful service in some parts of solely Queens, such as the Rockaways, Richmond Hill, and Ozone Park. I remember these well.

In the 2000s, as time progressed, two-section traffic signals continued to dwindle, and the last survivors in the borough were finally removed from service sometime in 2007. Both on Shore Front Pkwy. in the Rockaways and Liberty Avenue (at 114th St. as I recall) under the el segment.

[roadman65]

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.737936,-95.460748,3a,75y,180h,93.69t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sTJSpYqT1JRmHLx6S222Alw!2e0 Has anyone seen signal backplates like these before?

I must admit that they are quite weird.

[jakeroot]

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.737936,-95.460748,3a,75y,180h,93.69t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sTJSpYqT1JRmHLx6S222Alw!2e0 Has anyone seen signal backplates like these before?

I must admit that they are quite weird.

I think they look pretty cool! Definitely not standard (not to my limited knowledge) but still pretty awesome.

[thenetwork]

The backplates on the actual signals is okay...It's the backplates on the crosswalk signals that are fugly.

[Ian]

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.737936,-95.460748,3a,75y,180h,93.69t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sTJSpYqT1JRmHLx6S222Alw!2e0 Has anyone seen signal backplates like these before?

I must admit that they are quite weird.

They're kinda shaped like bananas.

[KEK Inc.]

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.737936,-95.460748,3a,75y,180h,93.69t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sTJSpYqT1JRmHLx6S222Alw!2e0 Has anyone seen signal backplates like these before?

I must admit that they are quite weird.

They're trying too hard with those streetlights.  If you look closely, you can see it's just a shell with a standard cobrahead.