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Traffic signal

Started by Tom89t, January 14, 2012, 01:01:45 AM

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xcellntbuy

Quote from: M3019C LPS20 on March 04, 2014, 11:06:42 PM
Liberty Av. and 126th St. as it was in the early 2000s. Queens, New York.



At that time, many two-section (red and green) traffic signals were still in useful service in some parts of solely Queens, such as the Rockaways, Richmond Hill, and Ozone Park. I remember these well.

In the 2000s, as time progressed, two-section traffic signals continued to dwindle, and the last survivors in the borough were finally removed from service sometime in 2007. Both on Shore Front Pkwy. in the Rockaways and Liberty Avenue (at 114th St. as I recall) under the el segment.
Wow.  Those old 2-light signals lasted a long, long time.  My first encounter with 2-signal lights in New York was along the roadway that weaved under and outside of the condemned West Side Highway in 1978 before all of it was finally demolished.  West Street in those days was quite a ride.


PColumbus73

New traffic lights in Myrtle Beach, SC, at the intersection of 29th Ave N. @ Grissom Pkwy

The City of Myrtle Beach has been swapping out their older traffic lights with these new black traffic signals. Although, the black backplates are uncommon. The intersection of Grissom Pkwy and Pine Island Rd have been replaced with these signals too.







Here is the GSV of an intersection with the older traffic lights.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=myrtle+beach&ie=UTF-8&ei=wXNEU6itLMTLsAS41oAI&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg

BamaZeus

SIAP, but this photo of Times Square in 1943 came across my Twitter feed just now (Historical Pics), featuring a color snapshot of a 2-color signal, and a classic One Way sign



https://twitter.com/HistoricalPics/status/455480656701964288/photo/1





jakeroot

Quote from: PColumbus73 on April 08, 2014, 06:14:01 PM
Here is the GSV of an intersection with the older traffic lights.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=myrtle+beach&ie=UTF-8&ei=wXNEU6itLMTLsAS41oAI&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg

Columbus, you need to remove your search query before you copy/paste the link; when that link is clicked, it just takes a person to the map of Myrtle Beach. It doesn't even load GSV.

PColumbus73


jakeroot

Rather strange setup near at I-75 & FL 326 near Ocala:



A right turn that is controlled by both an arrow and a yield sign...what?

roadfro

^ Permanent yield or stop control should not be used at signalized approaches. I believe that is a new standard added in the most recent MUTCD.

In this case, the correct action would likely be to remove the yield sign/line and also change the red arrows to circular reds to allow RTOR.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

amroad17

There are some "different" looking traffic signals on OH 4 Bypass around Hamilton, OH.  I had not been on that stretch of highway for over six years when it was mostly a two-lane road.  On Easter Sunday, I traveled the stretch between the OH 129 freeway and OH 4 in Fairfield.  I was in for a surprise.  The road now is a four- to six-lane highway.  At the traffic light intersections, the lights were on what could be equated to a long sign bridge spanning the highway in a SW quadrant to a NE quadrant. It was a rather impressive sight to see.  Unfortunately, I did not take any photos.  These intersections also had "Michigan Lefts" north and south of each intersection--mainly for the side roads as you could make a left turn from OH 4 Bypass.

If one of our members is around that area sometime in the near future, could you take and post photos of these traffic lights?
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

DaBigE

Quote from: jake on April 22, 2014, 01:56:02 AM
Rather strange setup near at I-75 & FL 326 near Ocala:



A right turn that is controlled by both an arrow and a yield sign...what?

There's a similar situation to that in Beaver Dam, WI. Been like that for years...
"We gotta find this road, it's like Bob's road!" - Rabbit, Twister

Big John

Quote from: amroad17 on April 23, 2014, 07:49:32 PM
There are some "different" looking traffic signals on OH 4 Bypass around Hamilton, OH.  I had not been on that stretch of highway for over six years when it was mostly a two-lane road.  On Easter Sunday, I traveled the stretch between the OH 129 freeway and OH 4 in Fairfield.  I was in for a surprise.  The road now is a four- to six-lane highway.  At the traffic light intersections, the lights were on what could be equated to a long sign bridge spanning the highway in a SW quadrant to a NE quadrant. It was a rather impressive sight to see.  Unfortunately, I did not take any photos.  These intersections also had "Michigan Lefts" north and south of each intersection--mainly for the side roads as you could make a left turn from OH 4 Bypass.

If one of our members is around that area sometime in the near future, could you take and post photos of these traffic lights?
Similar to Dubuque IA: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.491845,-90.665015,3a,75y,341.26h,89.09t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sJ_TxPdaOvFdzCj2HmW4V9A!2e0

amroad17

Yes.  Also, looking at streetview, one cannot directly cross the intersections from the side roads.  You have to make a right turn, then a U-turn left, then another right to continue straight on the road you were on.  North of the OH 129 freeway, OH 4 Bypass is divided until north of Princeton Road, then becomes a two-lane road until its end at OH 4.  The Princeton Road intersection is traditional--not like the ones south of the OH 129 freeway.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

Brandon

Quote from: roadfro on April 23, 2014, 01:03:46 AM
^ Permanent yield or stop control should not be used at signalized approaches. I believe that is a new standard added in the most recent MUTCD.

In this case, the correct action would likely be to remove the yield sign/line and also change the red arrows to circular reds to allow RTOR.

Why would changing the arrow to a ball make any difference in RTOR?  In this state (Illinois), they mean the same thing, and a "NO TURN ON RED" sign is required.  Either the yield sign and yield line should be removed (a la Illinois), or the signal heads should be removed (a la Indiana and Missouri).
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

signalman

Quote from: Brandon on April 24, 2014, 01:32:28 PM
Quote from: roadfro on April 23, 2014, 01:03:46 AM
^ Permanent yield or stop control should not be used at signalized approaches. I believe that is a new standard added in the most recent MUTCD.

In this case, the correct action would likely be to remove the yield sign/line and also change the red arrows to circular reds to allow RTOR.

Why would changing the arrow to a ball make any difference in RTOR?  In this state (Illinois), they mean the same thing, and a "NO TURN ON RED" sign is required.  Either the yield sign and yield line should be removed (a la Illinois), or the signal heads should be removed (a la Indiana and Missouri).
In Florida a red arrow and red ball also mean the same thing.  So, a decision has to be made...either remove the signals or remove the yield sign and line.

SignBridge

Different laws in different states. In New York State, red-ball permits right-on-red unless prohibited by sign. On red-arrow, right-on-red is always prohibited. New York City does not permit any right-on-red except where permitted by sign. And so it goes.

roadfro

Quote from: Brandon on April 24, 2014, 01:32:28 PM
Quote from: roadfro on April 23, 2014, 01:03:46 AM
^ Permanent yield or stop control should not be used at signalized approaches. I believe that is a new standard added in the most recent MUTCD.

In this case, the correct action would likely be to remove the yield sign/line and also change the red arrows to circular reds to allow RTOR.

Why would changing the arrow to a ball make any difference in RTOR?  In this state (Illinois), they mean the same thing, and a "NO TURN ON RED" sign is required.  Either the yield sign and yield line should be removed (a la Illinois), or the signal heads should be removed (a la Indiana and Missouri).

From a purely signal design standpoint (not looking at various state laws), the red arrow indicates a turn prohibition. If right turn on red is to be allowed, the better signal design decision is to use a circular red.

I've not understood why states don't make a distinction as far as this is concerned. Allowing RTOR with a red arrow seems counter intuitive to me...and I can't think of a reason why you'd use an RT arrow signal and allow RTOR if the turn wasn't protected for some reason.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

myosh_tino

Quote from: Brandon on April 24, 2014, 01:32:28 PM
Why would changing the arrow to a ball make any difference in RTOR?  In this state (Illinois), they mean the same thing, and a "NO TURN ON RED" sign is required.

Quote from: signalman on April 24, 2014, 05:00:52 PM
In Florida a red arrow and red ball also mean the same thing.  So, a decision has to be made...either remove the signals or remove the yield sign and line.

If right turns on red arrows are permitted, are left turns on red arrows also permitted?  I'm trying to show how confusing it might be to drivers if red arrows have different meanings based purely on the direction the arrow is pointing.

I'm thinking there needs to be some kind of consistency about the meaning of red arrows.  For example, if I'm visiting Florida and I see a red right arrow, I'm not turning until I see a green signal of some sort potentially pissing off a local which could lead to a road rage incident.

Before the advent of red arrows, left turn signals in California typically were comprised of a red ball, yellow ball and a green arrow but these signals were also accompanied by a sign that read "LEFT (OR U-TURN) ON GREEN ARROW ONLY" to indicate that a left turn on a red ball is not allowed.
Quote from: golden eagle
If I owned a dam and decided to donate it to charity, would I be giving a dam? I'm sure that might be a first because no one really gives a dam.

signalman

Quote from: myosh_tino on April 26, 2014, 02:47:17 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 24, 2014, 01:32:28 PM
Why would changing the arrow to a ball make any difference in RTOR?  In this state (Illinois), they mean the same thing, and a "NO TURN ON RED" sign is required.

Quote from: signalman on April 24, 2014, 05:00:52 PM
In Florida a red arrow and red ball also mean the same thing.  So, a decision has to be made...either remove the signals or remove the yield sign and line.

If right turns on red arrows are permitted, are left turns on red arrows also permitted?  I'm trying to show how confusing it might be to drivers if red arrows have different meanings based purely on the direction the arrow is pointing.

I'm thinking there needs to be some kind of consistency about the meaning of red arrows.  For example, if I'm visiting Florida and I see a red right arrow, I'm not turning until I see a green signal of some sort potentially pissing off a local which could lead to a road rage incident.

Before the advent of red arrows, left turn signals in California typically were comprised of a red ball, yellow ball and a green arrow but these signals were also accompanied by a sign that read "LEFT (OR U-TURN) ON GREEN ARROW ONLY" to indicate that a left turn on a red ball is not allowed.
I know what you mean and I agree completely with you.  I was just pointing out that there is no distinction between the two in Florida.
If I were the one spelling out the specifications for that signal installation, I'd have used a red ball, not a red arrow.

realjd

Quote from: myosh_tino on April 26, 2014, 02:47:17 PM
If right turns on red arrows are permitted, are left turns on red arrows also permitted?  I'm trying to show how confusing it might be to drivers if red arrows have different meanings based purely on the direction the arrow is pointing.

Many states use a red ball for left turns. How is allowing right turns on a red arrow and prohibiting left turns on a left arrow any more or less confusing than allowing RTOR on a red ball but prohibiting left turns on a red ball? People figure it out.

jakeroot

#443
Quote from: realjd on April 27, 2014, 12:18:20 AM
Quote from: myosh_tino on April 26, 2014, 02:47:17 PM
If right turns on red arrows are permitted, are left turns on red arrows also permitted?  I'm trying to show how confusing it might be to drivers if red arrows have different meanings based purely on the direction the arrow is pointing.

Many states use a red ball for left turns. How is allowing right turns on a red arrow and prohibiting left turns on a left arrow any more or less confusing than allowing RTOR on a red ball but prohibiting left turns on a red ball? People figure it out.

Well, I guess Washington/Oregon/British Columbia's approach of allowing left turn turn on red onto a one way street and right on red ball/arrow the least confusing and therefore most logical setup. In Washington, this left turn on red setup even includes freeway ramps. The least amount of prohibition, it would seem, the better. Of course, pure understanding of such loose laws is the elephant in the room for these states.

KEK Inc.

Honestly, you just have to understand the theory.  You should be able to turn against red (after a full stop) if you don't have to cross a lane of opposing traffic (whether that's on your road or the perpendicular road).  Basically, you can turn against red if you're hugging the curb.

Ergo, both streets must be one way
Take the road less traveled.

Pete from Boston


Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 27, 2014, 02:55:13 AM
Honestly, you just have to understand the theory.  You should be able to turn against red (after a full stop) if you don't have to cross a lane of opposing traffic (whether that's on your road or the perpendicular road).  Basically, you can turn against red if you're hugging the curb.

Ergo, both streets must be one way

Most states allow it on one-way to one-way:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_turn_on_red#Left_turn_on_red

What surprises me is that some allow it from two-way streets.

Mr_Northside

Quote from: realjd on April 27, 2014, 12:18:20 AM
Quote from: myosh_tino on April 26, 2014, 02:47:17 PM
If right turns on red arrows are permitted, are left turns on red arrows also permitted?  I'm trying to show how confusing it might be to drivers if red arrows have different meanings based purely on the direction the arrow is pointing.

Many states use a red ball for left turns. How is allowing right turns on a red arrow and prohibiting left turns on a left arrow any more or less confusing than allowing RTOR on a red ball but prohibiting left turns on a red ball? People figure it out.

As pointed out above, in the vast majority of situations, in most states, if it's not one-way to one-way, a left turn on a solid red anything is prohibited.  Whether it is an arrow or "ball" is irrelevant.
I don't have opinions anymore. All I know is that no one is better than anyone else, and everyone is the best at everything

Kacie Jane

Quote from: Mr_Northside on April 27, 2014, 01:07:23 PM
Quote from: realjd on April 27, 2014, 12:18:20 AM
Quote from: myosh_tino on April 26, 2014, 02:47:17 PM
If right turns on red arrows are permitted, are left turns on red arrows also permitted?  I'm trying to show how confusing it might be to drivers if red arrows have different meanings based purely on the direction the arrow is pointing.

Many states use a red ball for left turns. How is allowing right turns on a red arrow and prohibiting left turns on a left arrow any more or less confusing than allowing RTOR on a red ball but prohibiting left turns on a red ball? People figure it out.

As pointed out above, in the vast majority of situations, in most states, if it's not one-way to one-way, a left turn on a solid red anything is prohibited.  Whether it is an arrow or "ball" is irrelevant.

Exactly. And in many states, a right turn on red anything after stopping is permitted. Whether it is an arrow or a ball is irrelevant.

jakeroot

Quote from: Kacie Jane on April 27, 2014, 01:14:26 PM
Quote from: Mr_Northside on April 27, 2014, 01:07:23 PM
Quote from: realjd on April 27, 2014, 12:18:20 AM
Quote from: myosh_tino on April 26, 2014, 02:47:17 PM
If right turns on red arrows are permitted, are left turns on red arrows also permitted?  I'm trying to show how confusing it might be to drivers if red arrows have different meanings based purely on the direction the arrow is pointing.

Many states use a red ball for left turns. How is allowing right turns on a red arrow and prohibiting left turns on a left arrow any more or less confusing than allowing RTOR on a red ball but prohibiting left turns on a red ball? People figure it out.

As pointed out above, in the vast majority of situations, in most states, if it's not one-way to one-way, a left turn on a solid red anything is prohibited.  Whether it is an arrow or "ball" is irrelevant.

Exactly. And in many states, a right turn on red anything after stopping is permitted. Whether it is an arrow or a ball is irrelevant.

AND a left turn from a two way to a one way on red arrow or red ball is also allowed (in some states).

I think we are going in circles?

thenetwork

#449
I have always treated Right Red Arrow signals simply as RTOR permitted, unless there is an accompanying sign which states either NO TURN ON RED or RIGHT TURN SIGNAL.  I have never seen a YIELD sign at a signaled intersection.


I do have one intersection in our town where most traffic turns left from a OWS to a OWS.  Problem is, since this scenario is such a rarity in Western Colorado, the city does not put a helpful sign saying that you either CAN or CAN'T turn left on red (it is legal in CO).   So each time I come up to said intersection behind someone, I never know if I will have to wait for the green light or if the person(s) ahead of me will do a LTOR. 

These are probably the same morons who will come to a complete stop in a right turn lane, even if the light is displaying a green turn arrow (and there are more of them than you think out here)! :no:



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