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Minor roads on major corridors

Started by webny99, October 23, 2017, 10:19:32 PM

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webny99

For example, to get from Buffalo to NYC, you would use Perry Road, an unsigned county road near Mount Morris.

Any other low-profile roads carrying long-distance traffic like this?


Beltway

Quote from: webny99 on October 23, 2017, 10:19:32 PM
For example, to get from Buffalo to NYC, you would use Perry Road, an unsigned county road near Mount Morris.

Also on the eastern route between D.C. and Buffalo, that uses US-15, I-86, I-390 and US-20A.
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NE2

pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Beltway

Quote from: NE2 on October 24, 2017, 12:00:57 AM
Why wouldn't you use NY 63?

Never tried that, and Google Maps routes along US-20A.  Batavia is on the NY-63 route, and that looks like a rather built up area that would be slow to drive thru.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Roadgeekteen

You will almost never be routed on all of I-90 in Wyoming. It is quicker to take US 212.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

Bickendan

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on October 24, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
You will almost never be routed on all of I-90 in Wyoming. It is quicker to take US 212.
From Billings to Rapid City, I'm guessing?
It may be 56 miles shorter on 212, but the time savings is only 6 minutes. I don't imagine it'd be that hard to make up 6 minutes via I-90, while pushing the tempo on 212 might be a bit tough with the mandatory slow downs through various villages and towns, and less passing opportunities.

kphoger

Quote from: Bickendan on October 25, 2017, 04:06:27 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on October 24, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
You will almost never be routed on all of I-90 in Wyoming. It is quicker to take US 212.
From Billings to Rapid City, I'm guessing?
It may be 56 miles shorter on 212, but the time savings is only 6 minutes. I don't imagine it'd be that hard to make up 6 minutes via I-90, while pushing the tempo on 212 might be a bit tough with the mandatory slow downs through various villages and towns, and less passing opportunities.

Calling US-212 a minor road is pushing it, too.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

MNHighwayMan

Quote from: kphoger on October 25, 2017, 01:05:05 PM
Calling US-212 a minor road is pushing it, too.

Agreed. IMO, calling any US route, regardless of the quality of its facilities, is severely pushing it.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: kphoger on October 25, 2017, 01:05:05 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on October 25, 2017, 04:06:27 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on October 24, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
You will almost never be routed on all of I-90 in Wyoming. It is quicker to take US 212.
From Billings to Rapid City, I'm guessing?
It may be 56 miles shorter on 212, but the time savings is only 6 minutes. I don't imagine it'd be that hard to make up 6 minutes via I-90, while pushing the tempo on 212 might be a bit tough with the mandatory slow downs through various villages and towns, and less passing opportunities.

Calling US-212 a minor road is pushing it, too.
Yes, but I just found it strange that an interstate was built in the middle of nowhere and it is not even the fastest route.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

Bickendan

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on October 25, 2017, 04:15:36 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 25, 2017, 01:05:05 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on October 25, 2017, 04:06:27 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on October 24, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
You will almost never be routed on all of I-90 in Wyoming. It is quicker to take US 212.
From Billings to Rapid City, I'm guessing?
It may be 56 miles shorter on 212, but the time savings is only 6 minutes. I don't imagine it'd be that hard to make up 6 minutes via I-90, while pushing the tempo on 212 might be a bit tough with the mandatory slow downs through various villages and towns, and less passing opportunities.

Calling US-212 a minor road is pushing it, too.
Yes, but I just found it strange that an interstate was built in the middle of nowhere and it is not even the fastest route.
Again, 'fastest' is with strict adherence to speed limits. Don't equate 'shortest' with 'fastest'; furthermore, you're failing to see what I-90's function is with its routing: Serving Sheridan, Buffalo, Gillette, Moorcroft, and Sundance. All four of these cities are of more significance than any US 212 passes through, with the exception of Belle Fourche, and that's a throwing distance from I-90 through Spearfish, anyway.
I-90's function makes quite a bit of sense. Routing it on US 212 might have been more direct, but it would have served fewer people and would have been quite literally more in the middle of nowhere.

sparker

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on October 25, 2017, 04:15:36 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 25, 2017, 01:05:05 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on October 25, 2017, 04:06:27 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on October 24, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
You will almost never be routed on all of I-90 in Wyoming. It is quicker to take US 212.
From Billings to Rapid City, I'm guessing?
It may be 56 miles shorter on 212, but the time savings is only 6 minutes. I don't imagine it'd be that hard to make up 6 minutes via I-90, while pushing the tempo on 212 might be a bit tough with the mandatory slow downs through various villages and towns, and less passing opportunities.

Calling US-212 a minor road is pushing it, too.
Yes, but I just found it strange that an interstate was built in the middle of nowhere and it is not even the fastest route.

It's likely that the road network in SE Montana was specifically intended to avoid much of the cluster of Native American reservations in that neck of the woods.  US 87/I-90 was more or less "grandfathered" in, as it followed a longstanding rail line (originally CB&Q and later BNSF).  The section of US 212 from Broadus west to US 87 wasn't commissioned until 1962; prior to that US 212 followed current MT 59 up to Miles City, where it terminated before the US 12 extension to Helena over former MT 6.  The tribal governments would likely accede to a 2-lane facility through their lands; an Interstate away from the historic rail/US 87 corridor might have been politically infeasible.   That would have likely meant two Interstates on tribal lands -- I-90 along US 212 and US 87 north of Crow Agency, and I-25 coming up US 87 from Casper, WY.  That would have probably been one Interstate too many!  Plus, providing service to the communities along the US 14/16 corridor in Wyoming likely figured into the final I-90 routing "equation".

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: Bickendan on October 25, 2017, 04:42:04 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on October 25, 2017, 04:15:36 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 25, 2017, 01:05:05 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on October 25, 2017, 04:06:27 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on October 24, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
You will almost never be routed on all of I-90 in Wyoming. It is quicker to take US 212.
From Billings to Rapid City, I'm guessing?
It may be 56 miles shorter on 212, but the time savings is only 6 minutes. I don't imagine it'd be that hard to make up 6 minutes via I-90, while pushing the tempo on 212 might be a bit tough with the mandatory slow downs through various villages and towns, and less passing opportunities.

Calling US-212 a minor road is pushing it, too.
Yes, but I just found it strange that an interstate was built in the middle of nowhere and it is not even the fastest route.
Again, 'fastest' is with strict adherence to speed limits. Don't equate 'shortest' with 'fastest'; furthermore, you're failing to see what I-90's function is with its routing: Serving Sheridan, Buffalo, Gillette, Moorcroft, and Sundance. All four of these cities are of more significance than any US 212 passes through, with the exception of Belle Fourche, and that's a throwing distance from I-90 through Spearfish, anyway.
I-90's function makes quite a bit of sense. Routing it on US 212 might have been more direct, but it would have served fewer people and would have been quite literally more in the middle of nowhere.
I was about to comment about the small populations but then I realized that that would make me look like a total hypocrite.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

NE2

Routing I-90 to Buffalo resulted in less total Interstate construction, since I-25 didn't have to be built north of there.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Beltway

Quote from: webny99 on October 25, 2017, 10:08:33 PM
Quote from: NE2 on October 25, 2017, 05:01:35 PM
Routing I-90 to Buffalo resulted in less total Interstate construction, since I-25 didn't have to be built north of there.
Care to explain this mumble-jumble?

Is there a Buffalo, Wyoming?
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

hotdogPi

Quote from: Beltway on October 25, 2017, 10:17:29 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 25, 2017, 10:08:33 PM
Quote from: NE2 on October 25, 2017, 05:01:35 PM
Routing I-90 to Buffalo resulted in less total Interstate construction, since I-25 didn't have to be built north of there.
Care to explain this mumble-jumble?

Is there a Buffalo, Wyoming?

Yes. And bison live near there, unlike Buffalo, NY.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

kphoger

#15
Quote from: Beltway on October 25, 2017, 10:17:29 PM
Is there a Buffalo, Wyoming?

Seriously.




Quote from: webny99 on October 25, 2017, 10:08:33 PM
Quote from: NE2 on October 25, 2017, 05:01:35 PM
Routing I-90 to Buffalo resulted in less total Interstate construction, since I-25 didn't have to be built north of there.

Care to explain this mumble-jumble?

Sure thing.

The reality
174 miles = I-90 from Whitewood (SD) to Buffalo (WY)
102 miles = I-90 from Buffalo (WY) to Crow Agency (MT)
276 miles = Total Interstate mileage constructed

The hypothetical
220 miles = I-90 from Whitewood (SD) via SD-34 and US-212 to Crow Agency (MT)
102 miles = I-25 from Buffalo (WY) to Crow Agency (MT)
322 miles = Total Interstate mileage constructed

As you can see, the hypothetical routing would have required the construction of 46 more miles of Interstate construction in total.  (And I'm actually being a little generous, because I suspect the routing would have gone through Spearfish and used US-85 instead, which would tack on an additional 5 miles, but it's all hypothetical anyway.)  Not only that, buit Gillette (WY)–a boom town at the time, which literally doubled in population in the 1960s–would have been left without an Interstate, in favor of the nothingness of far southeastern Montana.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

TheHighwayMan3561

Gillette is still booming even now. The population has subsequently quintupled since that original 1960s boom referenced. So if I-90 wasn't built that way initially, there's a good chance WY/SD would have been forced to build even more Interstate mileage between Spearfish and Buffalo to get a road through Gillette.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

kphoger

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 26, 2017, 01:21:24 PM
Gillette is still booming even now. The population has subsequently quintupled since that original 1960s boom referenced. So if I-90 wasn't built that way initially, there's a good chance WY/SD would have been forced to build even more Interstate mileage between Spearfish and Buffalo to get a road through Gillette.

I didn't have a good feel for how much of Gillette's growth since 1970 was actually a result of the Interstate being built, though, so I didn't mention its current population (currently the fourth-largest in the state).
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

bzakharin

The fastest route between Albany and Trenton, NJ involves US 206 at least from I-287 to I-295, which is bad enough, but some versions of this route involve local streets through Princeton including a very narrow bridge over the Delaware and Raritan Canal.

kphoger

Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2017, 02:22:09 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 25, 2017, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 25, 2017, 10:17:29 PM
Is there a Buffalo, Wyoming?

Yes. And bison live near there, unlike Buffalo, NY.

Partially true. GMSV will reveal that several bison live near the junction of I-90 and I-190 in Buffalo, NY.  :bigass:

I'm kind of hoping this is some kind of inside joke for people familiar with the Buffalo area, but . . . for my sake, what do you mean?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Rothman

Quote from: kphoger on October 26, 2017, 02:47:05 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2017, 02:22:09 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 25, 2017, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 25, 2017, 10:17:29 PM
Is there a Buffalo, Wyoming?

Yes. And bison live near there, unlike Buffalo, NY.

Partially true. GMSV will reveal that several bison live near the junction of I-90 and I-190 in Buffalo, NY.  :bigass:

I'm kind of hoping this is some kind of inside joke for people familiar with the Buffalo area, but . . . for my sake, what do you mean?
I know!  I know!  There are "buffalo" at that site (maybe I-290, too?).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

kphoger

Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2017, 02:49:32 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 26, 2017, 02:47:05 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2017, 02:22:09 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 25, 2017, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 25, 2017, 10:17:29 PM
Is there a Buffalo, Wyoming?

Yes. And bison live near there, unlike Buffalo, NY.

Partially true. GMSV will reveal that several bison live near the junction of I-90 and I-190 in Buffalo, NY.  :bigass:

I'm kind of hoping this is some kind of inside joke for people familiar with the Buffalo area, but . . . for my sake, what do you mean?
I know!  I know!  There are "buffalo" at that site (maybe I-290, too?).

This is not helping...  :eyebrow:
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

kphoger

Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2017, 03:20:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 26, 2017, 02:47:05 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2017, 02:22:09 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 25, 2017, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 25, 2017, 10:17:29 PM
Is there a Buffalo, Wyoming?

Yes. And bison live near there, unlike Buffalo, NY.

Partially true. GMSV will reveal that several bison live near the junction of I-90 and I-190 in Buffalo, NY.  :bigass:

I'm kind of hoping this is some kind of inside joke for people familiar with the Buffalo area, but . . . for my sake, what do you mean?

Hardly  :-D Those bison are alive to die no more, probably because they're already dead (and made of metal [or something]). I think the city wanted some "buffalo" and a few fake ones were the best they could do.

So apparently this is a sculpture of some sort....  ? ?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: 1 on October 25, 2017, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 25, 2017, 10:17:29 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 25, 2017, 10:08:33 PM
Quote from: NE2 on October 25, 2017, 05:01:35 PM
Routing I-90 to Buffalo resulted in less total Interstate construction, since I-25 didn't have to be built north of there.
Care to explain this mumble-jumble?

Is there a Buffalo, Wyoming?

Yes. And bison live near there, unlike Buffalo, NY.
Saying Bison live near Buffalo, Wyoming has the same meaning as saying that the that the Detroit Lions play near domestic cats.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: kphoger on October 26, 2017, 01:26:34 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 26, 2017, 01:21:24 PM
Gillette is still booming even now. The population has subsequently quintupled since that original 1960s boom referenced. So if I-90 wasn't built that way initially, there's a good chance WY/SD would have been forced to build even more Interstate mileage between Spearfish and Buffalo to get a road through Gillette.

I didn't have a good feel for how much of Gillette's growth since 1970 was actually a result of the Interstate being built, though, so I didn't mention its current population (currently the fourth-largest in the state).

Tough to say, but given Gillette being an energy industry-based city (fossil fuels) there's a chance it would have grown with or without I-90.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running



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