Traffic signal

[jakeroot]

A very Canadian-looking signal along Olympic Hwy (WA-3) east of Aberdeen. The backs are painted green...?

https://goo.gl/maps/XJkcdZnhDc6dK7pb8

Another Canadian-looking signal in Renton.

Oh shit, nice find! That must be pretty new? It's even got cutaway visors, as is more common in British Columbia (though not absolutely the norm).

I always knew Renton would be the first city around here to just fill in the rest of the backplate with yellow. They use the most yellow of any place around here: the signals are always yellow, the backplates are usually painted yellow (except the front, usually), and they always use really thick retroreflective yellow borders. Plus, many of their post-mounted signals don't use backplates, much like BC.

Looking at the intersection of Rainier and Grady, the southbound approach could easily pass as a BC install (minus the lack of all-yellow backplates); the other three approaches lack post-mounted through signals, but are still damn close. A few more all-yellow backplates and the intersection would be nearly indistinguishable from this kind of setup (North Vancouver).

[SignBridge]

Ya' know the coming of yellow reflective borders on backplates has all but made the rule requiring black backplates almost useless. Because in places where yellow heads are used with yellow bordered backplates, you now only have a thin rectangular black strip showing. So the backplate itself might just as well be yellow. I wonder if we'll see a change in that rule in the next edition of the MUTCD.

I've decided I don't like the yellow borders anyway. I've come to think the original plain dark colored backplates were better. The yellow borders create a picture that is too visually complex for my taste. I like things as visually simple as possible.

[jakeroot]

Ya' know the coming of yellow reflective borders on backplates has all but made the rule requiring black backplates almost useless. Because in places where yellow heads are used with yellow bordered backplates, you now only have a thin rectangular black strip showing. So the backplate itself might just as well be yellow. I wonder if we'll see a change in that rule in the next edition of the MUTCD.

I've decided I don't like the yellow borders anyway. I've come to think the original plain dark colored backplates were better. The yellow borders create a picture that is too visually complex for my taste. I like things as visually simple as possible.

Damn, I agree on both counts. The black backplate requirement is almost certainly doomed with the advent of the retroreflective yellow border. The fact that it's not already common to see all-yellow backplates actually surprises me a bit.

But, yet, I still too prefer all-black signals. Combined with black or silver mast-arms, and non-colored diodes with inner-phosphor coatings (lenses that have no color), and it's a very satisfying, sort-of sleek black-and-white look.

[traffic light guy]

Ya' know the coming of yellow reflective borders on backplates has all but made the rule requiring black backplates almost useless. Because in places where yellow heads are used with yellow bordered backplates, you now only have a thin rectangular black strip showing. So the backplate itself might just as well be yellow. I wonder if we'll see a change in that rule in the next edition of the MUTCD.

I've decided I don't like the yellow borders anyway. I've come to think the original plain dark colored backplates were better. The yellow borders create a picture that is too visually complex for my taste. I like things as visually simple as possible.

Damn, I agree on both counts. The black backplate requirement is almost certainly doomed with the advent of the retroreflective yellow border. The fact that it's not already common to see all-yellow backplates actually surprises me a bit.

But, yet, I still too prefer all-black signals. Combined with black or silver mast-arms, and non-colored diodes with inner-phosphor coatings (lenses that have no color), and it's a very satisfying, sort-of sleek black-and-white look.

My state also began using the blackplates with the yellow borders thing. It's a weird look, but I kind of like it. I think the simple black backplate thing is too bland. Plus, the yellow borders allow drivers to be aware of where the backplate ends. The plain black can easily camouflage with other objects, especially at night. 

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

NYC has installed some new bus queue jump signals. They are used to allow buses a 7 second head start from the bus lane alongside a leading pedestrian interval. The new signals have a very bright solid white bar in place of the green, which lights up for 7 seconds before the main signal turns green regardless of whether or not a bus is there. The yellow and red are synced with the main signal. An example is shown here.

[jakeroot]

My state also began using the blackplates with the yellow borders thing. It's a weird look, but I kind of like it. I think the simple black backplate thing is too bland. Plus, the yellow borders allow drivers to be aware of where the backplate ends. The plain black can easily camouflage with other objects, especially at night.

I actually don't mind the yellow piping. The all-yellow signal posted above is absolutely fine with me, especially as the signal housing is also yellow. In my head, the backplate should match the signal housing. So if the housing is black, the backplate should be black as well. But the housing is yellow, everything else should be yellow as well. So in PA, I would be totally fine with yellow borders as it's "in-sync" with the color of the signal housings (which I know are always yellow).

Why do my aesthetic preferences not allow a combination? I couldn't say!

The new signals have a very bright solid white bar in place of the green, which lights up for 7 seconds before the main signal turns green regardless of whether or not a bus is there.

Seems to me that either a video or loop detection system should be considered. Pedestrians are still released, which is good (especially for NYC), but there's no reason not to allow cars to go right-away if there's no buses.

Queue jump signals are fairly common in the PNW, but most use video detection. Note the small two-lens signal above the far-right signal tower on the mast (you'll have to click forward and zoom in...street view is set for overview).

[Rothman]

The bus signal at Central Ave and Wolf Road in Colonie, NY has been there quite a while now -- years.

[kphoger]

Plus, the yellow borders allow drivers to be aware of where the backplate ends. The plain black can easily camouflage with other objects, especially at night. 

Why does this matter?

[MNHighwayMan]

Plus, the yellow borders allow drivers to be aware of where the backplate ends. The plain black can easily camouflage with other objects, especially at night. 

Why does this matter?

No shit. The whole point of backplates is to make the signal itself more visible, not to make the backplate more visible.

[jjakucyk]

Plus, the yellow borders allow drivers to be aware of where the backplate ends. The plain black can easily camouflage with other objects, especially at night. 

Why does this matter?

No shit. The whole point of backplates is to make the signal itself more visible, not to make the backplate more visible.

Partly, but backplates also make signals easier to see when backlit by the sun.  The yellow border helps one see that there is a signal there when it's dark and the power is out.  That's one thing I really like about Cincinnati's color scheme, which is actually not found in many other places.  The signal housings and visors are black (in some older signals the housing was dark green), but the doors are yellow.  The yellow also helps the signal show up in blackout conditions as that's the one part of the signal other than the lights themselves that you're supposed to actually see.  The visors and rear housing are parts that you're not supposed to really see, so they blend into the background.  When backplates are used, they have the yellow border on the front, but they're all black in the rear. 

[TEG24601]

Queue jump signals are fairly common in the PNW, but most use video detection. Note the small two-lens signal above the far-right signal tower on the mast (you'll have to click forward and zoom in...street view is set for overview).

I find it very interesting that Community Transit, in Snohomish County, just opted for another normal signal for the queue jumps for the Switft BRT service - https://goo.gl/maps/mktonjwJqooSAPcN6 , instead of light-rail/trolley signals.

[US 89]

Plus, the yellow borders allow drivers to be aware of where the backplate ends. The plain black can easily camouflage with other objects, especially at night. 

Why does this matter?

No shit. The whole point of backplates is to make the signal itself more visible, not to make the backplate more visible.

Partly, but backplates also make signals easier to see when backlit by the sun.

Even in that case the point is still to make the signal easier to see. The point of a backplate is not to be seen, but to emphasize what's inside it.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

My state also began using the blackplates with the yellow borders thing. It's a weird look, but I kind of like it. I think the simple black backplate thing is too bland. Plus, the yellow borders allow drivers to be aware of where the backplate ends. The plain black can easily camouflage with other objects, especially at night.

I actually don't mind the yellow piping. The all-yellow signal posted above is absolutely fine with me, especially as the signal housing is also yellow. In my head, the backplate should match the signal housing. So if the housing is black, the backplate should be black as well. But the housing is yellow, everything else should be yellow as well. So in PA, I would be totally fine with yellow borders as it's "in-sync" with the color of the signal housings (which I know are always yellow).

Why do my aesthetic preferences not allow a combination? I couldn't say!

The new signals have a very bright solid white bar in place of the green, which lights up for 7 seconds before the main signal turns green regardless of whether or not a bus is there.

Seems to me that either a video or loop detection system should be considered. Pedestrians are still released, which is good (especially for NYC), but there's no reason not to allow cars to go right-away if there's no buses.

Queue jump signals are fairly common in the PNW, but most use video detection. Note the small two-lens signal above the far-right signal tower on the mast (you'll have to click forward and zoom in...street view is set for overview).

After observing the intersections in question, I think the LPI may have been intended as well.

[Amtrakprod]

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.619679,-74.4168252,3a,44.2y,309.38h,91.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWfkZeV5rh_XCYOMuy9fqpQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Never seen a horizontal 8-8-12 signal

[Big John]

^^ Or a 8-8-12-12 signal.

[jakeroot]

Queue jump signals are fairly common in the PNW, but most use video detection. Note the small two-lens signal above the far-right signal tower on the mast (you'll have to click forward and zoom in...street view is set for overview).

I find it very interesting that Community Transit, in Snohomish County, just opted for another normal signal for the queue jumps for the Switft BRT service - https://goo.gl/maps/mktonjwJqooSAPcN6, instead of light-rail/trolley signals.

I've always thought dedicated, unique signals were better options. I hate the idea of using limited-visibility signals when there are other choices that would be less...confusing, for regular drivers.

Seattle is particularly strange. I've seen more than a few light rail/trolley signals for bus signals, but there's plenty of limited-visibility (3M) signals for buses as well. Not sure what their MO is.

[roadfro]

Queue jump signals are fairly common in the PNW, but most use video detection. Note the small two-lens signal above the far-right signal tower on the mast (you'll have to click forward and zoom in...street view is set for overview).

I find it very interesting that Community Transit, in Snohomish County, just opted for another normal signal for the queue jumps for the Switft BRT service - https://goo.gl/maps/mktonjwJqooSAPcN6, instead of light-rail/trolley signals.

I've always thought dedicated, unique signals were better options. I hate the idea of using limited-visibility signals when there are other choices that would be less...confusing, for regular drivers.

Seattle is particularly strange. I've seen more than a few light rail/trolley signals for bus signals, but there's plenty of limited-visibility (3M) signals for buses as well. Not sure what their MO is.

And really at this point, there is no excuse for NOT using the white bar signals for transit-only signals, especially in new installations. They've been in the MUTCD for a while now...

[jakeroot]

Queue jump signals are fairly common in the PNW, but most use video detection. Note the small two-lens signal above the far-right signal tower on the mast (you'll have to click forward and zoom in...street view is set for overview).

I find it very interesting that Community Transit, in Snohomish County, just opted for another normal signal for the queue jumps for the Switft BRT service - https://goo.gl/maps/mktonjwJqooSAPcN6, instead of light-rail/trolley signals.

I've always thought dedicated, unique signals were better options. I hate the idea of using limited-visibility signals when there are other choices that would be less...confusing, for regular drivers.

Seattle is particularly strange. I've seen more than a few light rail/trolley signals for bus signals, but there's plenty of limited-visibility (3M) signals for buses as well. Not sure what their MO is.

And really at this point, there is no excuse for NOT using the white bar signals for transit-only signals, especially in new installations. They've been in the MUTCD for a while now...

That's a very good point. To be honest, I didn't realize it was in the MUTCD. I figured it was something experimental that some agencies were doing. I assumed that because I've seen multiple variations of those signals in cities like San Francisco.

[Michael]

On September 5th, I drove under these relatively new signals.  In both directions, the second set of lights are PV signals.  Since PV signals are relatively rare in NY, and most of the ones I've seen have been fairly old, I was surprised to see them on such a new installation.  I hadn't been on the road in several years, and the last time I was, there was just a blinking light where the second light is now.



Last weekend, I was approaching this light, and noticed it had been replaced sometime in the past year.  Street View shows the old signals.  The new lights are a pair three section signals with left arrows on the left signal head, and right arrows on the right signal head.  I didn't see the yellow phase, but I assume they are arrows too.  Since the MUTCD requires two through heads, would this be MUTCD compliant?  There's no separate right turn arrow like the old signals had, so I assume there won't ever be a phase that allows just right turns, which means the arrows will always change together.  The old green right arrow allowed right turns while traffic coming from the right had a left turn arrow.  I didn't see if the new signals for traffic from the right had a left turn arrow or not.

[ErmineNotyours]

On September 5th, I drove under these relatively new signals.  In both directions, the second set of lights are PV signals.  Since PV signals are relatively rare in NY, and most of the ones I've seen have been fairly old, I was surprised to see them on such a new installation.  I hadn't been on the road in several years, and the last time I was, there was just a blinking light where the second light is now.

I'm surprised to see 3M signals on a single wire.  Other times I've seen temporary installations they were supported by another wire beneath so they can stay focused on their intended location.

[cl94]

On September 5th, I drove under these relatively new signals.  In both directions, the second set of lights are PV signals.  Since PV signals are relatively rare in NY, and most of the ones I've seen have been fairly old, I was surprised to see them on such a new installation.  I hadn't been on the road in several years, and the last time I was, there was just a blinking light where the second light is now.

I wouldn't call PV signals rare in New York. They're semi-common in the Hudson Valley and Capital District and I know of a few installations in the Southern Tier.

[Michael]

I can only think of three other PV signals in CNY off the top of my head, but I may have seen more I can't remember.

NY 104 (eastbound, westbound) at the entrance to SUNY Oswego (Now gone based on Street View.  I never understood the point of these since both directions had a regular signal on the near side.  I haven't been there since they were removed.

Midler Ave (northbound, southbound) at Erie Blvd (I've only noticed the southbound one in person.  I think I last saw it last year, and the northbound Street View shows a new mast arm being installed, so I'm not sure if the new signals are PV too.  After looking along this area of Erie Blvd in Street View, I also see a few other PV signals to the east that I've never noticed before.)

NY 46 in Downtown Oneida

As I was writing this post, I thought I remembered seeing another one before near the intersection of Hiawatha Blvd and 7th North St in Syracuse.  I couldn't find anything in Street View, but I did forget about this PV signal for trains.  I think this is the only train PV signal I've ever seen!

[stevashe]

Another Canadian-looking signal in Renton.

Oh shit, nice find! That must be pretty new? It's even got cutaway visors, as is more common in British Columbia (though not absolutely the norm).

I always knew Renton would be the first city around here to just fill in the rest of the backplate with yellow. They use the most yellow of any place around here: the signals are always yellow, the backplates are usually painted yellow (except the front, usually), and they always use really thick retroreflective yellow borders. Plus, many of their post-mounted signals don't use backplates, much like BC.

Looking at the intersection of Rainier and Grady, the southbound approach could easily pass as a BC install (minus the lack of all-yellow backplates); the other three approaches lack post-mounted through signals, but are still damn close. A few more all-yellow backplates and the intersection would be nearly indistinguishable from this kind of setup (North Vancouver).

King County has always used a lot of yellow as well. (Example: https://goo.gl/maps/MvtC8c1LTidyAY9DA) In fact, I don't think I've ever seen any back signals from them, just those backplates with the bit of black inside the yellow border (which does indeed look quite silly).

[fwydriver405]

I was down in Tucson, Arizona over the weekend. For as uninteresting as the city may be for those who aren't traffic nerds (at least according to my family who live in Phoenix), I've always found the city fascinating. They seem to be on the cutting edge of just about every new traffic control device, intersection configuration, etc. I've never seen so many "foreign" setups in my life.

I came upon this intersection in NE Tucson (Tanque Verde Road @ Sabino Canyon Road), where I noticed that the EB to NB left turn, a double left turn with permissive phasing (as is the way for almost all double lefts in Tucson), featured both a leading green arrow, and a lagging green arrow. I assume this is necessary due to a large amount of traffic performing the maneuver. Nonetheless, I've never seen this phasing used before:

https://youtu.be/1WWBn_6o4oY

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but the 5-section signals on E Tanque Verde Rd were replaced with FYA's in both directions as of April 2019. Did the phasing change to lag-lag (or lead-lag) with TOD phasing, or was the phasing in the video retained?

April 2019 Street View

[jakeroot]

I was down in Tucson, Arizona over the weekend. For as uninteresting as the city may be for those who aren't traffic nerds (at least according to my family who live in Phoenix), I've always found the city fascinating. They seem to be on the cutting edge of just about every new traffic control device, intersection configuration, etc. I've never seen so many "foreign" setups in my life.

I came upon this intersection in NE Tucson (Tanque Verde Road @ Sabino Canyon Road), where I noticed that the EB to NB left turn, a double left turn with permissive phasing (as is the way for almost all double lefts in Tucson), featured both a leading green arrow, and a lagging green arrow. I assume this is necessary due to a large amount of traffic performing the maneuver. Nonetheless, I've never seen this phasing used before:

https://youtu.be/1WWBn_6o4oY

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but the 5-section signals on E Tanque Verde Rd were replaced with FYA's in both directions as of April 2019. Did the phasing change to lag-lag (or lead-lag) with TOD phasing, or was the phasing in the video retained?

April 2019 Street View

Just saw your comment over there. To save you the time of heading over there, I'm not totally sure if runs with more conventional phasing now. That said, it seems that the old setup (seen in my video) was necessitated by the unique setup (really heavy left turns in one direction, not at all in another) and that Tucson used 5-section towers exclusively until a short time ago. More than likely, it uses regular phasing (probably lagging in both directions) with the current setup. But again, I'm not 100% sure.