I-15 Through Perris

[cahwyguy]

In the latest issue of the Southern California Railway Museum (nee OERM) Gazette, https://socalrailway.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/SCRMgazette_2024_ISSUE08_PRESS.pdf , it says:

An item in the January 1970 Gazette announced that the
Division of Highways (forerunner of Caltrans) had disclosed
the tentative route for Interstate 15 through Perris. It would
pass within a few hundred feet south of the museum with
an offramp about one-quarter mile southeast at Goetz
Road. It also mentioned that the museum would be close to
the re-routing of California Highway 74's freeway route. So
much for official prognostication! Construction was at least
two years away and as things turned out, the replacement
of US Highway 395 ended up as Interstate 215. Interstate
15 was routed much to the south through Elsinore.

This raises a bunch of questions. Since when was I-15 (as opposed to US 395 or I-15E) planned to go through Perris? What is the offramp at Goetz Road, which is S of Route 74? What is this Route 74 freeway route (presumably, between Elsinore and Perris)?

Does anyone have any other details on this?

As an aside, the same article (part of a continuing series on the history of the museum) noted:

The City of Perris installed information/directional signs
at key locations around town directing people to the
museum. The state also planned to place a sign at the
intersection of Highways 395 (today's I-215) and 74
mentioning the museum.

Daniel

[TheStranger]

This raises a bunch of questions. Since when was I-15 (as opposed to US 395 or I-15E) planned to go through Perris?

Looking at your I-15 page, you had mentioned that I-215 was originally created in 1969, then reassigned as I-15E in 1974:
https://cahighways.org/ROUTE015.html

The original (1947) plan was to have I-15 terminate at I-10, using the present-day I-215 alignment. US 395 would then continue to San Diego. In 1965, the US 395 segment was renumbered as TEMP I-15/US 395. In 1969, that corridor became I-215, and a new western alignment was created for I-15 that used existing Route 71 between US 395 and Route 91, and a new alignment (approximating former Route 31 in portions) between Route 91 and Devore. "I-215" and I-15 rejoined near Temecula. In 1974, I-215 was resigned as I-15E (with a real route number of Route 194), with the expressway portion signed as TEMP I-15E. In 1983, the I-15E signage was changed back to I-215; Route 194 was deleted, and Route 215 was created as non-chargable interstate.

That being said, I'm not sure about that as I had always been under the impression that the addition of the western 71/31 routing to I-15 happened after 1969 (when I-15 was extended along then-US 395 and Route 103 between I-10 and I-5)
https://cahighways.org/ROUTE031.html
From Max R./Gribblenation, this was quoted on the page:

letter from the California State Highway Engineer dated February 28, 1972, noted the request to shift the mainline corridor of I-15 to Route 31 and Route 71 had been submitted to the Federal Highway Administration during July 1971.  The Federal Highway Administration approved the change of alignment for I-15 on January 24, 1972 as chargeable mileage.

And from the Route 71 page:
https://cahighways.org/ROUTE071.html

In 1969, Chapter 294 changed the references to Route 395 to Route 15.

▸ In 1974, Chapter 537 deleted segments (b) and (c). Segment (b) was transferred to Route 15, and (c) was transferred to Route 79 (from Route 15 to Route 79 near Aguanga) and to Route 371 (from Route 79 to Route 74).

[cahwyguy]

But this was about an article in the Jan 1970 Gazette, so it is talking about late 1969, after 215 came into existance. But suppose they were talking about 15. That went to I-10, with US 395 below that, and an offramp at Gaetz is pretty far away from where 215 ended up.

[TheStranger]

But this was about an article in the Jan 1970 Gazette, so it is talking about late 1969, after 215 came into existance. But suppose they were talking about 15. That went to I-10, with US 395 below that, and an offramp at Gaetz is pretty far away from where 215 ended up.

The Route 215 page does not mention the number 215 being in use in California at all between 1965 and 1982:
https://cahighways.org/ROUTE215.html

[ClassicHasClass]

I don't know what they're referring to either. Case Rd where Goetz Rd intersects would have been the old CA 740 roadbed, and CA 74 was initially routed on it (consequently crossing US 395 twice when US 395 was moved to the Big Cut alignment), but the modern alignment with the two highways co-routed was in use from at least 1962.

[The Ghostbuster]

It is probably a good thing Interstate 15 was relocated to follow the former CA 31/former CA 71 corridor, since the Interstate 15E/215 corridor did not finish being upgraded to Interstate Standards until 1994. Wikipedia says the 215 corridor was numbered CA 194 from 1974-1982. Is this accurate, and if so, was it ever signposted?

[cahwyguy]

First, I don't think 194 was ever signed; it was the hidden number for 15E (which couldn't duplicate 15).

I don't know what they're referring to either. Case Rd where Goetz Rd intersects would have been the old CA 740 roadbed, and CA 74 was initially routed on it (consequently crossing US 395 twice when US 395 was moved to the Big Cut alignment), but the modern alignment with the two highways co-routed was in use from at least 1962.

That's the first I've heard of Case being old Sign Route 74. Did it connect with 395 via D Street or Perris Blvd? I'm guessing D Street.

What was the "Big Cut" alignment?

[pderocco]

It is probably a good thing Interstate 15 was relocated to follow the former CA 31/former CA 71 corridor, since the Interstate 15E/215 corridor did not finish being upgraded to Interstate Standards until 1994. Wikipedia says the 215 corridor was numbered CA 194 from 1974-1982. Is this accurate, and if so, was it ever signposted?

I remember I-215 having driveways on one of my visits back in the 80s.

[cahwyguy]

It is probably a good thing Interstate 15 was relocated to follow the former CA 31/former CA 71 corridor, since the Interstate 15E/215 corridor did not finish being upgraded to Interstate Standards until 1994. Wikipedia says the 215 corridor was numbered CA 194 from 1974-1982. Is this accurate, and if so, was it ever signposted?

I remember I-215 having driveways on one of my visits back in the 80s.

More properly, back then it was CA 215 on one side, and To I-215 on the other side. We joing OERM back in 1985, and were heading out there 1-2 times a year. It was still mostly expressway back then, so I remember the intersections and I want to say at least one light.

That's why this quarter's Gazette surprised me. I had never known of any proposal to have a freeway -- be it 15, 15E/215 or 74 -- that close to the museum.

[ClassicHasClass]

First, I don't think 194 was ever signed; it was the hidden number for 15E (which couldn't duplicate 15).

I don't know what they're referring to either. Case Rd where Goetz Rd intersects would have been the old CA 740 roadbed, and CA 74 was initially routed on it (consequently crossing US 395 twice when US 395 was moved to the Big Cut alignment), but the modern alignment with the two highways co-routed was in use from at least 1962.

That's the first I've heard of Case being old Sign Route 74. Did it connect with 395 via D Street or Perris Blvd? I'm guessing D Street.

What was the "Big Cut" alignment?

Let me correct myself: it crossed once. Prior to US 395 moving to Big Cut (referring to the hill cut between modern Newport Rd and McCall Blvd in Menifee), they were corouted into western Perris on 4th St. At D St they split: US 395 went north towards Moreno Valley and CA 74 went south onto Case Rd.

After Big Cut was complete and US 395 moved east, US 395 and CA 74 crossed at what is now I-215 exit 15, the modern south CA 74 junction. At that time they were not corouted and US 395 was alone on the bypass routing. There is a picture of this in CH&PW showing CA 74 on Case Rd and US 395 in what is now the I-215 roadbed but I forget what issue this was.

There were some 194 postmiles. I remember ones on I-215 as late as the early 2000s until the recent roadwork obliterated them.

[cahwyguy]

The relevant issues appear to be May/Jun 1952 https://libraryarchives.metro.net/DPGTL/Californiahighways/chpw_1952_mayjun.pdf and Jan/Feb 1954 https://libraryarchives.metro.net/DPGTL/Californiahighways/chpw_1954_janfeb.pdf

Neither seem to talk about Case Road, although looking at the USGS map from 1943 for Perris https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/topoview/viewer/#15/33.7742/-117.2210 , that alignment is pretty clear.

What isn't clear is what started this discussion in the first place: The line from the most recent SCRM Gazette, which was also in the headlines post,

An item in the January 1970 Gazette announced that the Division of Highways (forerunner of Caltrans) had disclosed the tentative route for Interstate 15 through Perris. It would pass within a few hundred feet south of the museum with an offramp about one-quarter mile southeast at Goetz Road. It also mentioned that the museum would be close to the re-routing of California Highway 74's freeway route. So much for official prognostication! Construction was at least two years away and as things turned out, the replacement of US Highway 395 ended up as Interstate 215. Interstate 15 was routed much to the south through Elsinore.

None of the proposed routings I've seen for I-15E / I-215 show it anywhere near Goetz Road, especially passing within a few hundred feet of the museam. For those unfamilar with SCRM/OERM ( https://socalrailway.org/ ), it is at 2201 S "A" Street, bordered by A Street, Mapes Road, Goetz Road, and Mountain. The final routing for I-215 took the post 1953 US 395 routing. a good distance (1-2 miles) from the museum. Further, although Route 74 is completely in the freeway and expressway system, I'm unaware of any freeway route adoptions along the Elsinore to Perris segment.

Has anyone seen these route adoptions: Either something for I-15 or its ilk to the W of the current routing, closer to Goetz Road, or any adopted freeway routings for Route 74 in Riverside County?