This isn't necessarily an easy question to answer, but I think it should lead to some interesting discussion.
In my case, upon thinking about it, a few things come to mind that non-locals have said at least twice:
-The thruway needs to be widened
-We really don't have much congestion to speak of, meaning...
-Drivers tend to get aggravated for even a little slowdown (or, maybe, that just runs in my family :-D but I think there is some truth to it)
-The roads are kept clear in the winter, despite heavy snowfall, almost unbelievably so to visitors from warmer climates
-Side roads in neighborhoods are very narrow (This is true, but only in certain areas)
-Two lane roads in suburban areas have very low speed limits
Out of what I've heard (not a 100% complete list but plenty)
-How are your freeways not more than 3 lanes? And 2 thru downtown?
-You rely on MAX fixing all of your traffic problems?
-SPEED LIMIT 65T55 (now 65T60) in rural areas?
-SPEED 55 on 2 laners?
-Poor roadway design.
-A drawbridge on an interstate?
-NIMBY city? (okay, that is split but my Illinois family, when they come out, says that)
-Rushed drivers much? (improper English intended)
#1 thing I usually hear is something along the lines of "how do you put up with all this."
Isn't this road/bridge already paid for? Why do we still have to pay tolls?
Your roads suck.
Why do you have to turn left from the right lane?
I can't believe all of this traffic!
Why are there one-lane highways? That utterance was said upon taking family from Virginia to Big Basin State Park via CA 236 last year. I guess they expected all freeways?...I think that's what most associate California with.
This is what South Florida has to say:
- Traffic, Traffic and way more traffic.
- Express Lanes are way too expensive and congested
- Endless Construction
- Tolls Everywhere
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 16, 2018, 12:06:38 PM
Why are there one-lane highways? That utterance was said upon taking family from Virginia to Big Basin State Park via CA 236 last year. I guess they expected all freeways?...I think that's what most associate California with.
I wouldn't expect all freeways, but I would expect all congestion :D
I've heard from family friends that I-5 between LA and the Bay Area is basically a solid wall of bumper-to-bumper 80 mph traffic, especially on weekends. Having never driven on I-5, I don't know if there's any truth to that.
Quote from: webny99 on January 16, 2018, 12:20:00 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 16, 2018, 12:06:38 PM
Why are there one-lane highways? That utterance was said upon taking family from Virginia to Big Basin State Park via CA 236 last year. I guess they expected all freeways?...I think that's what most associate California with.
I wouldn't expect all freeways, but I would expect all congestion :D
I've heard from family friends that I-5 between LA and the Bay Area is basically a solid wall of bumper-to-bumper 80 mph traffic, especially on weekends. Having never driven on I-5, I don't know if there's any truth to that.
Really that's the popular perception I think simply because most tourists or outsiders just visit the big cities. A huge amount of California roadways are still rural or mountainous in nature. Really if I were to rank a top 25 driving roads I'd probably speculate at least 10 would be in California.
Pretty much the only way not to get run over by all the regular vehicle traffic. I greatly prefer 5 over 99 since it has way commercial trucking on it and is much more rural in design. The best roads to the Bay Area are off the grid though I'd recommend getting off on 198, taking it to 25, and up to 101 if I were traveling to the Bay Area from L.A.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 16, 2018, 12:31:42 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 16, 2018, 12:20:00 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 16, 2018, 12:06:38 PM
Why are there one-lane highways? That utterance was said upon taking family from Virginia to Big Basin State Park via CA 236 last year. I guess they expected all freeways?...I think that's what most associate California with.
I wouldn't expect all freeways, but I would expect all congestion :D
I've heard from family friends that I-5 between LA and the Bay Area is basically a solid wall of bumper-to-bumper 80 mph traffic, especially on weekends. Having never driven on I-5, I don't know if there's any truth to that.
Really that's the popular perception I think simply because most tourists or outsiders just visit the big cities. A huge amount of California roadways are still rural or mountainous in nature. Really if I were to rank a top 25 driving roads I'd probably speculate at least 10 would be in California.
Of course, and I don't really have that perception myself. Having visited Muir Woods and Pacifica on my trip to San Fran, it just impresses you how diverse of a state it really is. CA 1, in particular, is a fun drive. And I haven't seen but a fraction yet.
Quote
Pretty much the only way not to get run over by all the regular vehicle traffic.
This does not seem to be a complete thought... are you referring to the need to drive 80 mph on I-5?
Quote from: webny99 on January 16, 2018, 01:09:44 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 16, 2018, 12:31:42 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 16, 2018, 12:20:00 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 16, 2018, 12:06:38 PM
Why are there one-lane highways? That utterance was said upon taking family from Virginia to Big Basin State Park via CA 236 last year. I guess they expected all freeways?...I think that's what most associate California with.
I wouldn't expect all freeways, but I would expect all congestion :D
I've heard from family friends that I-5 between LA and the Bay Area is basically a solid wall of bumper-to-bumper 80 mph traffic, especially on weekends. Having never driven on I-5, I don't know if there's any truth to that.
Really that's the popular perception I think simply because most tourists or outsiders just visit the big cities. A huge amount of California roadways are still rural or mountainous in nature. Really if I were to rank a top 25 driving roads I'd probably speculate at least 10 would be in California.
Of course, and I don't really have that perception myself. Having visited Muir Woods and Pacifica on my trip to San Fran, it just impresses you how diverse of a state it really is. CA 1, in particular, is a fun drive. And I haven't seen but a fraction yet.
Quote
Pretty much the only way not to get run over by all the regular vehicle traffic.
This does not seem to be a complete thought... are you referring to the need to drive 80 mph on I-5?
Yes, 80 MPH is a must on I-5 north of the Ridge Route.
I don't think I've heard any visitor mention our road network at all. Must be fairly nondescript.
Quote from: kphoger on January 16, 2018, 01:37:26 PM
I don't think I've heard any visitor mention our road network at all. Must be fairly nondescript.
I've always thought the routing of the Kansas Turnpike was kind of strange.
Quote from: kphoger on January 16, 2018, 01:37:26 PM
I don't think I've heard any visitor mention our road network at all. Must be fairly nondescript.
Quote from: webny99 on January 16, 2018, 01:47:01 PM
I've always thought the routing of the Kansas Turnpike was kind of strange.
Quote from: webny99 on January 16, 2018, 08:52:38 AM
I have never been to Kansas
I've still never heard any visitor mention it. ;-)
Besides which, what's strange about it? It connects Kansas City, the state capital, Wichita, and Oklahoma City via
Oklahoma's turnpike (oops). Hard for me to imagine a more reasonable routing.
What's the difference between the Turnpike and the Parkway? Isn't it dangerous to have traffic lights on high-speed divided highways? You people have no idea how to drive in snow.
I keep hearing about the confusing road layout, the heavy traffic, and the poor response to snow. With regard to DC specifically, people complain about the confusing addressing system until I tell them to think of it in terms of Cartesian coordinates; then they typically get it.
Quote from: kphoger on January 16, 2018, 02:07:14 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 16, 2018, 01:37:26 PM
I don't think I've heard any visitor mention our road network at all. Must be fairly nondescript.
Quote from: webny99 on January 16, 2018, 01:47:01 PM
I've always thought the routing of the Kansas Turnpike was kind of strange.
Quote from: webny99 on January 16, 2018, 08:52:38 AM
I have never been to Kansas
I've still never heard any visitor mention it. ;-)
Besides which, what's strange about it? It connects Kansas City, the state capital, Wichita, and Oklahoma City via Oklahoma's turnpike (oops). Hard for me to imagine a more reasonable routing.
Because it serves the capital, it doesn't go directly from Wichita to KC. On balance, it's not really "strange" per se, but when you consider that thru traffic gets off, and then back on, and also the wonky numbering, then it's a bit strange.
A friend I met in college who came from Alaska was duly impressed with how many freeways there were here, and how fast everyone drives. I sure wasn't expecting to ever hear that about anywhere in Oregon!
And then there's the guy from somewhere super rich in California who got at least three tickets for going 70+ on 50 or 55 mph stretches of freeway here...in his first year.
Quote from: webny99 on January 16, 2018, 02:37:28 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 16, 2018, 02:07:14 PM
Besides which, what's strange about it? It connects Kansas City, the state capital, Wichita, and Oklahoma City via Oklahoma's turnpike (oops). Hard for me to imagine a more reasonable routing.
Because it serves the capital, it doesn't go directly from Wichita to KC. On balance, it's not really "strange" per se, but when you consider that thru traffic gets off, and then back on, and also the wonky numbering, then it's a bit strange.
??? It doesn't go directly from Wichita to KC ???
There's only a three-mile difference between
taking the Turnpike (https://goo.gl/maps/Bv4hpj4LAps) between the two cities versus
taking I-35 (https://goo.gl/maps/c4ikfPp5xE32).
Furthermore, when the Turnpike was built (1956), I-35 didn't exist yet.
(https://www.interstate-guide.com/maps/kansas_tpk_1961_540.jpg)
And the plan before that (via US-81 and US-50) would have been approximately ten miles longer.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/Interregional_Highway_plan_ca_1943.jpg)
I suspect the Kansas SHC resisted routing the Wichita-KC Interstate connection through Topeka because that would have stranded US 50 in Johnson County, for which major upgrades were planned even back in the 1940's. In the end the Turnpike was leveraged to leave Kansas with approximately the same amount of untolled Interstate mileage as would have existed if the currently tolled portions of I-35 and I-70 had been built through toll-free methods and the Emporia-Topeka connection via I-335 had not been built at all.
Quote from: kphoger on January 16, 2018, 03:24:15 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 16, 2018, 02:37:28 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 16, 2018, 02:07:14 PM
Besides which, what's strange about it? It connects Kansas City, the state capital, Wichita, and Oklahoma City via Oklahoma's turnpike (oops). Hard for me to imagine a more reasonable routing.
Because it serves the capital, it doesn't go directly from Wichita to KC. On balance, it's not really "strange" per se, but when you consider that thru traffic gets off, and then back on, and also the wonky numbering, then it's a bit strange.
??? It doesn't go directly from Wichita to KC ???
There's only a three-mile difference between taking the Turnpike (https://goo.gl/maps/Bv4hpj4LAps) between the two cities versus taking I-35 (https://goo.gl/maps/c4ikfPp5xE32).
Furthermore, when the Turnpike was built (1956), I-35 didn't exist yet.
Forgive me for my stupidity. I was thinking of Salina for some reason, not Topeka, and I posted that without looking at a map. That's something one should never do, even a roadgeek.
Anyways, I'll concede that the routing is decent, but, my point still stands that the numbering is rather wonky.
Quote from: webny99 on January 16, 2018, 04:27:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 16, 2018, 03:24:15 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 16, 2018, 02:37:28 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 16, 2018, 02:07:14 PM
Besides which, what's strange about it? It connects Kansas City, the state capital, Wichita, and Oklahoma City via Oklahoma's turnpike (oops). Hard for me to imagine a more reasonable routing.
Because it serves the capital, it doesn't go directly from Wichita to KC. On balance, it's not really "strange" per se, but when you consider that thru traffic gets off, and then back on, and also the wonky numbering, then it's a bit strange.
??? It doesn't go directly from Wichita to KC ???
There's only a three-mile difference between taking the Turnpike (https://goo.gl/maps/Bv4hpj4LAps) between the two cities versus taking I-35 (https://goo.gl/maps/c4ikfPp5xE32).
Furthermore, when the Turnpike was built (1956), I-35 didn't exist yet.
Forgive me for my stupidity. I was thinking of Salina for some reason, not Topeka, and I posted that without looking at a map. That's something one should never do, even a roadgeek.
Anyways, I'll concede that the routing is decent, but, my point still stands that the numbering is rather wonky.
Again, the Turnpike predates all of that. It predates the I-335 designation by 31 years, for example, and I-70 wasn't I-70 yet west of Topeka when the Turnpike was built.
I would suggest reading through the Kansas Turnpike article on Wikipedia, as it is one of the most complete sources of information on the road as anyone could put together.
A lot of roadgeek friends who have visited me in MN comment impressively on the large volume of freeways in the Twin Cities.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 16, 2018, 06:00:02 PM
I would suggest reading through the Kansas Turnpike article on Wikipedia, as it is one of the most complete sources of information on the road as anyone could put together.
If this is not sarcasm, then I will do just that, someday when I got lots of spare time :-P
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 16, 2018, 06:30:05 PM
A lot of roadgeek friends who have visited me in MN comment impressively on the large volume of freeways in the Twin Cities.
I second that. Two other things that stood out (on my first visit, anyways) were the high volumes of cloverleaf interchanges, and, down in Lakeville, the lack of signalized intersections, which has since become less noticeable.
Quote from: webny99 on January 16, 2018, 08:35:28 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 16, 2018, 06:00:02 PM
I would suggest reading through the Kansas Turnpike article on Wikipedia, as it is one of the most complete sources of information on the road as anyone could put together.
If this is not sarcasm, then I will do just that, someday when I got lots of spare time :-P
Definitely not sarcasm. The Kansas Turnpike article is a featured article on Wikipedia for a reason. You should also check out Scott5114's Wikipedia userpage.
Quote from: 1 on January 16, 2018, 08:37:11 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 16, 2018, 08:35:28 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 16, 2018, 06:00:02 PM
I would suggest reading through the Kansas Turnpike article on Wikipedia, as it is one of the most complete sources of information on the road as anyone could put together.
If this is not sarcasm, then I will do just that, someday when I got lots of spare time :-P
Definitely not sarcasm. The Kansas Turnpike article is a featured article on Wikipedia for a reason. You should also check out Scott5114's Wikipedia userpage.
Alrighty then. Learn something new every day.
Some things that in no particular order come to mind when referencing Northern Virginia's road network:
- Too many tolls
- Sprawl
- Way to congested
- Why the hell is I-66 inside the beltway four-lanes?
- Stupid
- Sad
And my personal favorite from a relative visiting back when I lived in Woodbridge:
- I-95 is a dumpster fire :-D
For Kitchener-Waterloo:
- The road layout is too confusing (I won't disagree) :-D
- Why are there two number 8's? (again, I can see why that's confusing)
(https://i.imgur.com/qQmbVpHl.jpg)
- Why do the numbers change so much on the highways? (it's unfortunate, but I can't think of any better solutions)
(https://i.imgur.com/lhF9rz4l.jpg)
- Lots of roundabouts
For Toronto:
- The 401 is huge!
- Traffic is terrible
- Drivers are aggressive
(I agree with all three of these, though I don't mind the drivers that much)
Massachusetts:
Too many rotaries
Drivers are crazy (applies more to Boston proper than to where I live)
Driving in the breakdown lane is LEGAL at certain times of day on certain roads
One person in particular, about the Sumner Tunnel: "Is there a winter tunnel too?" (He was not joking; he just misread the sign.)
And then there's not being able to pronounce Woburn, Leominster, Worcester, Gloucester, or Peabody, but that's not the road network itself.
----
Some people I was with, about New Hampshire:
Food/gas/lodging signs don't tell you which restaurants or other businesses there are until AFTER you get onto the offramp (at least on I-93), which defeats the purpose.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 16, 2018, 06:30:05 PM
A lot of roadgeek friends who have visited me in MN comment impressively on the large volume of freeways in the Twin Cities.
I know this isn't what the thread is about, but allow me to offer my opinions about Minnesota roads.
(1) County roads that are well signed, most paved, and many with hard shoulders. This is freaking awesome.
(2) Bypass lanes. Every other state needs to get on board with this one.
(3) Separate signage for snowmobiles? OK, maybe we're starting to go overboard here...
(4) I can't drive fifty-five.
(5) People have no sense of slower traffic keeping right, and yet nobody seems to mind.
(6) Bump, bump, bump, bump... Freeze, thaw, freeze, thaw...
And, for the Twin Cities specifically...
(1) Stupid Mississippi River! I shouldn't have to go to Elk River in order to get from Rogers to Anoka.
(2) Several highways that need to be freeways but aren't: MN-252, US-10 west of Anoka, MN-13 west of Burnsville.
(3) Lack of destination names on guide signs, just route numbers. Boo!
Quote from: 1 on January 17, 2018, 09:49:12 AM
Massachusetts:
Drivers are crazy (applies more to Boston proper than to where I live)
I have often heard this, too, though have no firsthand experience.
QuoteAnd then there's not being able to pronounce Woburn, Leominster, Worcester, Gloucester, or Peabody, but that's not the road network itself.
NY has this problem quite a bit, too. Skaneateles, Schuyler, Schuylkill, etc. There's also issues with spelling when it comes to Canandaigua and Irondequoit, and not even just non-locals.
Quote from: kphoger on January 17, 2018, 10:02:58 AM
I know this isn't what the thread is about, but allow me to offer my opinions about Minnesota roads.
Certainly seems relevant to me... you're just posting it yourself instead of the news traveling via someone from MN :-D
Quote(2) Bypass lanes. Every other state needs to get on board with this one.
Totally agree. Ontario does this a bit, but I've not seen any other states that do it to the extent Minnesota does.
Quote
(4) I can't drive fifty-five.
Do say more!
Quote from: webny99 on January 17, 2018, 12:00:06 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 17, 2018, 09:49:12 AM
Massachusetts:
Drivers are crazy (applies more to Boston proper than to where I live)
I have often heard this, too, though have no firsthand experience.
QuoteAnd then there's not being able to pronounce Woburn, Leominster, Worcester, Gloucester, or Peabody, but that's not the road network itself.
NY has this problem quite a bit, too. Skaneateles, Schuyler, Schuylkill, etc. There's also issues with spelling when it comes to Canandaigua and Irondequoit, and not even just non-locals.
Quote from: kphoger on January 17, 2018, 10:02:58 AM
I know this isn't what the thread is about, but allow me to offer my opinions about Minnesota roads.
Certainly seems relevant to me... you're just posting it yourself instead of the news traveling via someone from MN :-D
Quote(2) Bypass lanes. Every other state needs to get on board with this one.
Totally agree. Ontario does this a bit, but I've not seen any other states that do it to the extent Minnesota does.
Quote
(4) I can't drive fifty-five.
Do say more!
Too slow of speed limits? Or too much traffic? Those are my two guesses. Also for the bypass lanes, just toll them and build them.
Quote from: Hurricane Rex on January 17, 2018, 12:14:57 PM
Also for the bypass lanes, just toll them and build them.
I don't think you know what he meant by bypass lanes. They're lanes that allow you to pass people who are slowing down to make a turn. This prevents a whole string of cars from having a brake-fest when someone needs to turn, but yet while still eliminating the investment required for full turn lanes.
(Also, I wish that you had not quoted my whole quote, but, if you're using a mobile device then I'll forgive you :-P)
Interstate 94. It sucks. It seems like at any little snowfall there is a 10+ car pileup, and people don't pay any attention to what they are doing. I would rather take back roads from Kalamazoo to Battle Creek than I-94. Ditto US-131, although US-131 isn't as bad.
Quote from: Hurricane Rex on January 17, 2018, 12:14:57 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 17, 2018, 10:02:58 AM
(4) I can't drive fifty-five.
Too slow of speed limits? Or too much traffic? Those are my two guesses
The first one (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Can%27t_Drive_55)
Quote from: Hurricane Rex on January 17, 2018, 12:14:57 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 17, 2018, 10:02:58 AM
(2) Bypass lanes. Every other state needs to get on board with this one.
Also for the bypass lanes, just toll them and build them.
Quote from: webny99 on January 17, 2018, 12:21:18 PM
I don't think you know what he meant by bypass lanes.
Right, he obviously didn't know what I meant. Like
this (https://goo.gl/maps/czS2i3MYm7u) and
this (https://goo.gl/maps/S2d8i12FRtG2). They're all over Minnesota.
Quote from: webny99 on January 17, 2018, 12:00:06 PM
Ontario does this a bit, but I've not seen any other states that do it to the extent Minnesota does.
JREwing78 says (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6510.msg2265402#msg2265402) they're common in Wisconsin.
Quote from: kphoger on January 17, 2018, 10:02:58 AMBypass lanes. Every other state needs to get on board with this one.
I would respectfully disagree. The complete solution is road widening at the intersection such that on the road having priority, left-turning, straight-ahead, and right-turning vehicles are all segregated into their own lanes, with full paved shoulders being provided on all intersection approaches. This is how it is done on Super Two highways in Kansas and
that is the model to propagate.
In Minnesota the bypass lanes are nice at tee junctions, but at crossroads (notably along TH 23 around Foley) there are cases where right-turn lanes are provided when the bulk of traffic wants to turn left, so that the right-turn lane gets mistaken as a bypass lane and drivers going around a left-turning vehicle have to swerve abruptly back to the left to avoid going onto the shoulder or into the ditch. And there are numerous examples in Minnesota where segregation of through and turning traffic is achieved by striping the shoulder as part of the traveled way rather than actually expanding the paved roadway cross-section.
Another point to keep in mind is that the motivation for explicitly signing bypass lanes is the same as for blade-up/blade-down signing for guardrails, explicit signing of turn lane beginnings, etc.: heavy snow in winter. States that get less snow also provide bypass lanes--they just don't put up "Bypass Lane" signs for them.
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 17, 2018, 01:24:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 17, 2018, 10:02:58 AMBypass lanes. Every other state needs to get on board with this one.
I would respectfully disagree. The complete solution is road widening at the intersection such that on the road having priority, left-turning, straight-ahead, and right-turning vehicles are all segregated into their own lanes, with full paved shoulders being provided on all intersection approaches. This is how it is done on Super Two highways in Kansas and that is the model to propagate.
I agree with both statements. I think the importance of the road makes a big difference as to whether full turn lanes are worth the investment. On a super-2, or main corridor that goes cross-state, definitely worth investing in proper turn lanes. On a local or county road (or even some less significant state highways) there's probably not significant long-distance traffic, and driver expectations aren't as high, so bypass lanes work just fine.
Just thought I'd be proactive in making that distinction :D
Clusterfuck, mostly thanks to the suicide lane from hell on Piney Forest Road (US-29 Business) between Central Boulevard and VA-41.
What do you mean, I-5 narrows to two lanes through downtown? Who thought that was a good idea?
I thought of one for Wichita...
"He said to take Kellogg east to I-35 and it would be just past that. I'm out here by Wal-Mart, and I don't see it anywhere."
This is because locals think I-135 is I-35, and they give directions accordingly.
Quote from: kphoger on January 24, 2018, 12:47:48 PM
This is because locals think I-135 is I-35, and they give directions accordingly.
Oops. That could get awkward at times. Is there a reason for this? :confused:
Quote from: webny99 on January 24, 2018, 01:28:41 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 24, 2018, 12:47:48 PM
This is because locals think I-135 is I-35, and they give directions accordingly.
Oops. That could get awkward at times. Is there a reason for this? :confused:
The assumption among the users here is that it's because the highway used to be I-35W until 1976.
I-135 in Kansas was I-35W originally. And just to add to the fun and games, the length of current I-135 between I-35 (Turnpike access) and the I-235 wye was originally I-235. I-235 itself was originally signed as US 81 Bypass, and that was the preferred way of referring to it locally for decades.
Edit: (1) Foregoing crossed with Kphoger's last post; and (2) in cases where it is suspected the directions-giver is confusing I-135 and I-35, bring the Canal Route into the conversation. Ordinary folks in Wichita just don't have a concept of the Turnpike as a Wichita freeway or as part of I-35 because it runs in a blind corridor in southeast Wichita.
Quote from: kphoger on January 24, 2018, 01:31:20 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 24, 2018, 01:28:41 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 24, 2018, 12:47:48 PM
This is because locals think I-135 is I-35, and they give directions accordingly.
Oops. That could get awkward at times. Is there a reason for this? :confused:
The assumption among the users here is that it's because the highway used to be I-35W until 1976.
Learn something new every day. That's funny, because in the Twin Cities, locals definitely use the suffixes for I-35E and I-35W.
What is with all the frontage/service/access roads along the freeways in Texas?
NOVA: "nobody knows how to drive, traffic sucks... and why the hell do so many people have their high-beams on?!"
Houston:
1: With so many lanes, why so much traffic?
2: Whats with so many toll roads?
3:(coming back after 30+ years to I-45 Gulf Freeway) Damn, they still not done with this?
4:What?! We're still in Houston? When been driving for over an hour.
"This is the worst Interstate I've ever been on" –H.B. Elkins, I think, traveling the old I-40 Crosstown at the 2008 OKC Meet
Quote from: kphoger on January 24, 2018, 01:31:20 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 24, 2018, 01:28:41 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 24, 2018, 12:47:48 PM
This is because locals think I-135 is I-35, and they give directions accordingly.
Oops. That could get awkward at times. Is there a reason for this? :confused:
The assumption among the users here is that it's because the highway used to be I-35W until 1976.
Moral for all the frequenters of Fictional Highways: be careful of changing numbers all willy-nilly because people will be getting confused for the next 20 years.
Quote from: odditude on January 24, 2018, 02:49:55 PM
NOVA: "nobody knows how to drive, traffic sucks... and why the hell do so many people have their high-beams on?!"
Funny, lately I've noticed less of this and a lot more of people driving around at night with no headlights at all, not even DRLs.
Quote from: kkt on January 25, 2018, 01:06:43 AM
Moral for all the frequenters of Fictional Highways: be careful of changing numbers all willy-nilly because people will be getting confused for the next 20 years.
I'm tempted to say those two cannot be used in the same sentence :-D [/dry humor]
With that said, I do wish reducing motorist confusion was a higher priority on the fictional board.
Quote from: webny99 on January 25, 2018, 11:38:58 AM
Quote from: kkt on January 25, 2018, 01:06:43 AM
Moral for all the frequenters of Fictional Highways: be careful of changing numbers all willy-nilly because people will be getting confused for the next 20 years.
I'm tempted to say those two cannot be used in the same sentence :-D [/dry humor]
With that said, I do wish reducing motorist confusion was a higher priority on the fictional board.
Would you have any suggestions then? Especially for me because of my upcoming posts on there.
for the indianapolis area:
"why are all the interstate speed limits 55?"
"there's a shit ton of roundabouts here!"
"traffic is generally not bad"
"downtown is small and compact, easy to walk around"
"the cultural trail is cool"
"carmel is weird"
Quote from: Hurricane Rex on January 25, 2018, 11:45:21 AM
Quote from: webny99 on January 25, 2018, 11:38:58 AM
Quote from: kkt on January 25, 2018, 01:06:43 AM
Moral for all the frequenters of Fictional Highways: be careful of changing numbers all willy-nilly because people will be getting confused for the next 20 years.
I'm tempted to say those two cannot be used in the same sentence :-D [/dry humor]
With that said, I do wish reducing motorist confusion was a higher priority on the fictional board.
Would you have any suggestions then? Especially for me because of my upcoming posts on there.
Well, being somewhat new myself, not really. We've had the "fictional vs fantasy" debate, and I think that sums it up, in some ways. Keep it realistic, keep numberings consistent, and if possible, think about things from a non-roadgeek perspective. I personally value logic and consistency above all else.
In reference to the US 101/I-880 interchange: "Holy shit!"
In reference to CA 17 in the Santa Cruz mountains: "Holy fucking shit!"
In reference to trying to get out of town to the north (101, 880, 680) after 3 pm:
"uhh....isn't there some sort of street we can use instead?"
(with my usual response "yeah, but it'll be just as bad!")
And that's just for starters!
Regarding Atlanta:
"Why are there so many damned roads named Peachtree something?"
"Your interstates are THAT wide and are still a parking lot at rush hour?"
"Why do you call I-285 a bypass when it doesn't really bypass anything any more?"
I think Indiana has a rule that all freeways with three or more lanes in each direction have to have a 55 mph speed limit, hence why I-65 isn't three lanes between Indy and Louisville.
Some things about Michigan:
"How are US-23 and I-94 still mostly two lanes?"
"US-31 in Muskegon County is dangerous" (it's been closed at least four separate times for accidents since Christmas)
"Why is M-39 55 mph while I-96 and M-10 are 70?"
Quote from: ftballfan on January 27, 2018, 12:46:38 AM
I think Indiana has a rule that all freeways with three or more lanes in each direction have to have a 55 mph speed limit, hence why I-65 isn't three lanes between Indy and Louisville.
I do not believe there is such a rule. I-65 just south of I-465 for instance has three lanes plus an auxiliary lane and is signed at 65 mph. South of Greenwood, the six-lane wide interstate goes up to 70 mph. I know I-65 around Lebanon is 70 mph and that may extend south toward Zionsville. Likewise, new sections of I-69 that were widened to six lanes from Noblesville to Pendelton should be 70 mph. In short, the speed limits are all regionally based and has nothing to do with the size of the roadway.
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 27, 2018, 01:19:43 PM
Quote from: ftballfan on January 27, 2018, 12:46:38 AM
I think Indiana has a rule that all freeways with three or more lanes in each direction have to have a 55 mph speed limit, hence why I-65 isn't three lanes between Indy and Louisville.
I do not believe there is such a rule. I-65 just south of I-465 for instance has three lanes plus an auxiliary lane and is signed at 65 mph. South of Greenwood, the six-lane wide interstate goes up to 70 mph. I know I-65 around Lebanon is 70 mph and that may extend south toward Zionsville. Likewise, new sections of I-69 that were widened to six lanes from Noblesville to Pendelton should be 70 mph. In short, the speed limits are all regionally based and has nothing to do with the size of the roadway.
Good to hear, because that would indeed be an extremely foolish rule if it was one :crazy:
An alternative way to frame the question:
What do you tell visitors about your areas road network?
And not necessarily the obvious things like "traffic is bad", but rather features or patterns not well documented or readily visible on Google Maps.
Metro Richmond:
I really don't hear many visitors talking about our road network itself, which is probably a GOOD thing. The only negative I've heard is about traffic (of course still not as bad as DC or Hampton Roads, and how many places are as bad as DC anyway??), which seems to have been growing at a pretty good clip. Even in this case most of the problems still stems from the painfully outdated I-95/I-64 duplex.
Most of what I hear is about Downtown Richmond itself.
- It's so hard to park! (as if every major city doesn't have this issue :-D... this is mostly a problem during weekdays.. weekends not so much except VCU Medical Center)
- Why are the pedestrian signals so noisy? (helps with the blind apparently)
- How do I get back to the Highway? (basically I-95, and it could be tricky given the fact that there are "breaks" in several downtown streets)
- Where's the restrooms around here? (slightly off topic, but if you're just riding around and exploring then umm.. good luck!!)
A few more outside downtown:
- Why is that bridge so high? (VA 895 over I-95 & the James River, and the reason was because of ships, when Richmond was still an actual seaport)
- Is it Po-White or Pow-hite? (VA 76 Powhite Pkwy, and it's Pow-hite)
Quote from: plain on May 29, 2019, 03:57:48 AM
Metro Richmond:
- Why is that bridge so high? (VA 895 over I-95 & the James River, and the reason was because of ships, when Richmond was still an actual seaport)
The port continues to operate, although I can't seem to find how many large ships dock there.
http://www.richmondgov.com/PortOfRichmond/index.aspx
Quote from: ftballfan on January 27, 2018, 12:46:38 AM
"Why is M-39 55 mph while I-96 and M-10 are 70?"
The comparable section of M-10 in Detroit (no left shoulders) also is 55 mph. Given the frequent multi-mile southbound backups at M-8 and the left exits/entrances at I-94, that's probably appropriate.
What I don't understand about I-96's split express-local stretch is that the local lanes are 70 mph while the local lanes are 55 mph, even though the rest of that urban freeway between I-275 and I-94 is 70 mph with the same frequency of exits and entrances.
Quote from: Beltway on May 29, 2019, 07:02:06 AM
Quote from: plain on May 29, 2019, 03:57:48 AM
Metro Richmond:
- Why is that bridge so high? (VA 895 over I-95 & the James River, and the reason was because of ships, when Richmond was still an actual seaport)
The port continues to operate, although I can't seem to find how many large ships dock there.
http://www.richmondgov.com/PortOfRichmond/index.aspx
The last ship docked there in 2012. I have read somewhere recently that there might be a chance ships will return, I have to go back and find that article. But for now the barge service to the Hampton Roads ports is keeping the Port Of Richmond busy, which is very positive.
"It's so confusing with all the interstates starting with 7."
In fairness, we do have three (71, 74, 75).
Quote from: plain on May 29, 2019, 12:01:38 PM
Quote from: Beltway on May 29, 2019, 07:02:06 AM
Quote from: plain on May 29, 2019, 03:57:48 AM
Metro Richmond:
- Why is that bridge so high? (VA 895 over I-95 & the James River, and the reason was because of ships, when Richmond was still an actual seaport)
The port continues to operate, although I can't seem to find how many large ships dock there.
http://www.richmondgov.com/PortOfRichmond/index.aspx
The last ship docked there in 2012. I have read somewhere recently that there might be a chance ships will return, I have to go back and find that article. But for now the barge service to the Hampton Roads ports is keeping the Port Of Richmond busy, which is very positive.
They make it sound like they are still handling ships --
"The Port handles containers, temperature-controlled containers, breakbulk, bulk, and neo-bulk cargo."
Quote from: ftballfan on January 27, 2018, 12:46:38 AM
I think Indiana has a rule that all freeways with three or more lanes in each direction have to have a 55 mph speed limit, hence why I-65 isn't three lanes between Indy and Louisville.
That isn't true. I-94 is three lanes per direction from the I-80 split to the Michigan border. It's signed at 70.
Quote
for the indianapolis area:
"why are all the interstate speed limits 55?"
"there's a shit ton of roundabouts here!"
"traffic is generally not bad"
"downtown is small and compact, easy to walk around"
"the cultural trail is cool"
"carmel is weird"
For me (a visitor to the area), driving through Indianapolis on I-465 (usually the US 52 overlap), it's, "Why is this always backed up?"
Quote from: webny99 on January 24, 2018, 01:40:01 PM
Learn something new every day. That's funny, because in the Twin Cities, locals definitely use the suffixes for I-35E and I-35W.
This is far from universal. Many people just say 35 knowing that the listener will know from context which one you mean.
Quote from: Coelacanth on May 29, 2019, 09:35:47 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 24, 2018, 01:40:01 PM
Learn something new every day. That's funny, because in the Twin Cities, locals definitely use the suffixes for I-35E and I-35W.
This is far from universal. Many people just say 35 knowing that the listener will know from context which one you mean.
Or maybe they're referring to just plain I-35.
In the Lakeville area I've usually heard it specified. Obviously it's much more important to specify in the northern and southern 'burbs than it is in the eastern and western ones.
Quote from: webny99 on May 29, 2019, 10:06:54 PM
Quote from: Coelacanth on May 29, 2019, 09:35:47 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 24, 2018, 01:40:01 PM
Learn something new every day. That's funny, because in the Twin Cities, locals definitely use the suffixes for I-35E and I-35W.
This is far from universal. Many people just say 35 knowing that the listener will know from context which one you mean.
Or maybe they're referring to just plain I-35.
In the Lakeville area I've usually heard it specified. Obviously it's much more important to specify in the northern and southern 'burbs than it is in the eastern and western ones.
No, people within the core metro do it too. It always annoyed me as a kid.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 29, 2019, 10:07:36 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 29, 2019, 10:06:54 PM
Quote from: Coelacanth on May 29, 2019, 09:35:47 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 24, 2018, 01:40:01 PM
Learn something new every day. That's funny, because in the Twin Cities, locals definitely use the suffixes for I-35E and I-35W.
This is far from universal. Many people just say 35 knowing that the listener will know from context which one you mean.
Or maybe they're referring to just plain I-35.
In the Lakeville area I've usually heard it specified. Obviously it's much more important to specify in the northern and southern 'burbs than it is in the eastern and western ones.
No, people within the core metro do it too. It always annoyed me as a kid.
I guess in the cities themselves it's pretty obvious, as there's clearly the one branch of I-35 serving each. Not so much in Lakeville or Forest Lake (or anywhere beyond).
Quote from: frankenroad on May 29, 2019, 01:06:07 PM
"It's so confusing with all the interstates starting with 7."
In fairness, we do have three (71, 74, 75).
In Massachusetts we have 4 that start with 9 and nobody gets confused.
Madison: "Why is everybody in this city on the same road (the Beltline) at the same time (5:00-5:30 PM) going the same direction? (Westbound between John Nolen and Verona Rd). That pretty much sums it up.
A few things I've head family/friends/out-of-towners say when they visit Maine...
- Potholes and rough roads everywhere. Understandable when the freeze/thaw cycle is as extreme as it is in northern New England.
- Low speed limits. The interstates (usually posted at 70 or 75 outside of Maine's "cities") being excluded from this complaint, but MaineDOT will lower the speed limit to 35-25 mph passing through small towns or approaching a signal, when the road is otherwise posted at 45-55 mph. I suppose I can understand it from a safety standpoint, but it can be a bit irritating when there's lengthy stretches through small towns that're posted low when the roadway is relatively wide and flat with only a handful of homes and driveways.
- The lengthy amount of time it takes to reach places. Not really a fault of the road network, but Maine is a rather large state that's very rural, so most towns are spread far apart from each other (This especially holds true the further north or east you get). Every time I drove up north for college, the "I just crossed the state line" excitement quickly diminished when the harsh realization came that it was still 2.5-3 hours to Orono!
- The lack of heavy traffic. Ignoring summer tourist traffic (which is typically only present toward the southern part of the state), most of Maine doesn't really get traffic jams. You'll obviously encounter stopped traffic on the interstates when there are accidents caused by winter weather and short jams (about 10-15 cars queued, less on more rural roads) caused by construction lane closures controlled by flaggers, but that's not as common. Rush hour traffic isn't really a thing outside of Portland, which is still not bad.
Visitors have this to say about the road network in Idaho:
Duluth/Superior: "Your streets suck."
It's also pretty hard to find a straight route to go from point A to point B.
Quote from: corco on June 01, 2019, 01:27:25 AM
Visitors have this to say about the road network in Idaho:
Nothing attached, assuming that's the point.
Quote from: Beltway on May 29, 2019, 03:33:50 PM
Quote from: plain on May 29, 2019, 12:01:38 PM
Quote from: Beltway on May 29, 2019, 07:02:06 AM
Quote from: plain on May 29, 2019, 03:57:48 AM
Metro Richmond:
- Why is that bridge so high? (VA 895 over I-95 & the James River, and the reason was because of ships, when Richmond was still an actual seaport)
The port continues to operate, although I can't seem to find how many large ships dock there.
http://www.richmondgov.com/PortOfRichmond/index.aspx
The last ship docked there in 2012. I have read somewhere recently that there might be a chance ships will return, I have to go back and find that article. But for now the barge service to the Hampton Roads ports is keeping the Port Of Richmond busy, which is very positive.
They make it sound like they are still handling ships --
"The Port handles containers, temperature-controlled containers, breakbulk, bulk, and neo-bulk cargo."
Technically the port itself can handle that, but the river (and channel of course) have several issues, leading to both of the last two oceangoing companies that served Richmond to stop calls here. The winding course of the river is a factor, and it's also pretty narrow west/north of Hopewell. The bigger issue however is dredging. An insecticide (Kepone) is on the riverbed below the accumulated silt... dredging will certainly cause another environmental issue.
I'm still looking for that article I mentioned upthread (haven't had much time to do so). Maybe officials are hoping they can land ocean bound ships that don't require the dredging.
If not, it will make both of the fixed spans between Richmond & Hopewell look pointless :wow:
Quote from: plain on June 01, 2019, 10:12:58 PM
Quote from: Beltway on May 29, 2019, 03:33:50 PM
They make it sound like they are still handling ships --
"The Port handles containers, temperature-controlled containers, breakbulk, bulk, and neo-bulk cargo."
Technically the port itself can handle that, but the river (and channel of course) have several issues, leading to both of the last two oceangoing companies that served Richmond to stop calls here. The winding course of the river is a factor, and it's also pretty narrow west/north of Hopewell. The bigger issue however is dredging. An insecticide (Kepone) is on the riverbed below the accumulated silt... dredging will certainly cause another environmental issue.
I'm still looking for that article I mentioned upthread (haven't had much time to do so). Maybe officials are hoping they can land ocean bound ships that don't require the dredging.
If not, it will make both of the fixed spans between Richmond & Hopewell look pointless :wow:
Dredging the channels back to where they were 20 years ago might not be an issue or problem.
https://www.dailypress.com/news/science/dp-nws-kepone-update-vims-20170624-story.html
Excerpt:
The risk of a recontaminating the James by limited dredging or limited excavation projects such as the overhead power lines that Dominion Energy proposes across the river from Surry to James City County are basically nonexistent, he said.
Kepone is not only buried in the sediment but unevenly distributed. Core samples taken before excavation would first show if it was present, and in what amount.
"So dredging and doing things like putting in pilings or stanchions or something like that, it's not going to contaminate the surface sediments in the river like it was back in the '70s or '80s," said Unger. "That's not going to happen. There may be some localized release of Kepone, localized to the dredging that's occurring. But it's not going to recontaminate the entire food chain in the James River."
Quote from: Beltway on June 01, 2019, 10:21:06 PM
Quote from: plain on June 01, 2019, 10:12:58 PM
Quote from: Beltway on May 29, 2019, 03:33:50 PM
They make it sound like they are still handling ships --
"The Port handles containers, temperature-controlled containers, breakbulk, bulk, and neo-bulk cargo."
Technically the port itself can handle that, but the river (and channel of course) have several issues, leading to both of the last two oceangoing companies that served Richmond to stop calls here. The winding course of the river is a factor, and it's also pretty narrow west/north of Hopewell. The bigger issue however is dredging. An insecticide (Kepone) is on the riverbed below the accumulated silt... dredging will certainly cause another environmental issue.
I'm still looking for that article I mentioned upthread (haven't had much time to do so). Maybe officials are hoping they can land ocean bound ships that don't require the dredging.
If not, it will make both of the fixed spans between Richmond & Hopewell look pointless :wow:
Dredging the channels back to where they were 20 years ago might not be an issue or problem.
https://www.dailypress.com/news/science/dp-nws-kepone-update-vims-20170624-story.html
Excerpt:
The risk of a recontaminating the James by limited dredging or limited excavation projects such as the overhead power lines that Dominion Energy proposes across the river from Surry to James City County are basically nonexistent, he said.
Kepone is not only buried in the sediment but unevenly distributed. Core samples taken before excavation would first show if it was present, and in what amount.
"So dredging and doing things like putting in pilings or stanchions or something like that, it's not going to contaminate the surface sediments in the river like it was back in the '70s or '80s," said Unger. "That's not going to happen. There may be some localized release of Kepone, localized to the dredging that's occurring. But it's not going to recontaminate the entire food chain in the James River."
I hope that is true. I was sad when the port lost its status, but I don't want that environmental issue either. I'm hoping it will all work out.
Palm Spring, CA
- Why is it so windy on the interstate? Wind funnels through San Gorgonio Pass because the mountains on each side are over 10,000 feet high. This also means accidents and associated backups.
- The interstate is both windy and crowded. Is there a different way to get to the Inland Empire and LA? There's only one way to "quickly" get to the IE. There are no roads other than I-10 between the CA 111 and Haugen-Lehmann Road exits, even though the exits are about 2000 feet apart. You can either take I-10 or go through the mountains on winding, two-lane roads.
- Why is {fill-in-the-blank} Road closed? It's windy. You should have figured that out by now. Especially through and near the pass. They built roads right on the arroyos. Roads close because loose sand blows onto and blocks the roads near the interstate when it's windy. It's even worse when it rains and wet sand covers the roads.
- Why are there so many slow drivers? We're a retirement haven. We have lots of old drivers who should take a behind-the-wheel test rather than just a written test. Blame California law.
- Why are there so many crazy fast drivers? It's California. We have a reputation to maintain. Or maybe we're just worried we'll get stuck behind one of the aforementioned old drivers.
- Why is the ocean so far away? This is California. California is a big state. Only Alaska and Texas are bigger. This isn't Florida where everywhere is <2 hours from the sea.
- Why are the roads so crowded? It's winter. There are an additional 300K people here in winter.
- I heard the roads here are crowded. Which roads? It's summer. It's only crowded in winter. Except CA 111 which is always busy. Avoid CA 111. Seriously, just avoid it if you can.
Michigan: With all this traffic, why are these freeways still only two lanes each direction? And tons of potholes and crumbling bridges? But, hey, nice new BGSs with Clearview font!
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 16, 2018, 11:57:21 AM
#1 thing I usually hear is something along the lines of "how do you put up with all this."
People coming back from the New York Tri-State area have said the same thing to me and some of my relatives.
Too many tolls! However there really are not that many. It's just the folks flying in from Orlando Airport listen to the GPS which puts them either on SR 417 or SR 528 and many don't read the fine print or have the knowledge to program it to avoid tolls.
I worked the Beeline West and got the complaints on that one even one guy who was warned by his relatives about Florida Toll Roads, comes on to be shocked that he is paying a toll, and tells me what to do with the tolls like I own the road. I even had to remark back, "well you should have listened to your relatives and avoided us!"
Quote from: corco on June 01, 2019, 01:27:25 AM
Visitors have this to say about the road network in Idaho:
Boise drivers are nuts. I was grateful to get down to Utah on the road trip last summer.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 30, 2019, 06:43:45 PM
Too many tolls! However there really are not that many. It's just the folks flying in from Orlando Airport listen to the GPS which puts them either on SR 417 or SR 528 and many don't read the fine print or have the knowledge to program it to avoid tolls.
I worked the Beeline West and got the complaints on that one even one guy who was warned by his relatives about Florida Toll Roads, comes on to be shocked that he is paying a toll, and tells me what to do with the tolls like I own the road. I even had to remark back, "well you should have listened to your relatives and avoided us!"
Orlando really does have a ton of toll roads. Is there any other metro area where the freeway network is entirely tolled save for one interstate?
Quote from: vdeane on July 30, 2019, 07:53:36 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 30, 2019, 06:43:45 PM
Too many tolls! However there really are not that many. It's just the folks flying in from Orlando Airport listen to the GPS which puts them either on SR 417 or SR 528 and many don't read the fine print or have the knowledge to program it to avoid tolls.
I worked the Beeline West and got the complaints on that one even one guy who was warned by his relatives about Florida Toll Roads, comes on to be shocked that he is paying a toll, and tells me what to do with the tolls like I own the road. I even had to remark back, "well you should have listened to your relatives and avoided us!"
Orlando really does have a ton of toll roads. Is there any other metro area where the freeway network is entirely tolled save for one interstate?
Portland, ME, if you ignore the Scarborough Connector. (The other two short freeways lead to the toll road.)
"Tulsa has the worst..."
a. Roads.
b. Drivers.
c. Both a & b.
SM-T580
Quote from: vdeane on July 30, 2019, 07:53:36 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 30, 2019, 06:43:45 PM
Too many tolls! However there really are not that many. It's just the folks flying in from Orlando Airport listen to the GPS which puts them either on SR 417 or SR 528 and many don't read the fine print or have the knowledge to program it to avoid tolls.
I worked the Beeline West and got the complaints on that one even one guy who was warned by his relatives about Florida Toll Roads, comes on to be shocked that he is paying a toll, and tells me what to do with the tolls like I own the road. I even had to remark back, "well you should have listened to your relatives and avoided us!"
Orlando really does have a ton of toll roads. Is there any other metro area where the freeway network is entirely tolled save for one interstate?
You are quite correct on that one. We should have SR 417 as free I-204 and SR 528 should be I-104.. Heck SR 528 is toll free in neighboring Brevard County as in 1990 the tolls were lifted as the bonds were indeed paid. In Orlando we have the CFX who does anything under the sun to keep bonds going such as contracting many road projects.
Then FDOT is another who maintains the Beeline West from MM 0 to MM 8, who just added express toll lanes from its terminus with I-4 to Exit 4 and soon from Exit 4 to Exit 8 to keep that part of the road under debt. The Florida Turnpike is another one that keeps adding lanes to its 309 mile mainline, and you have the SR 408 that we used to call the East West Rip Off as the former OOCEA blackmailed the residents of the area to start using the road or they would raise the tolls by 25 cents, and they did instead of lowering the tolls to get users.
This was back in 1990 where those 50 cent plazas are now well over a buck.