Madison Area

[mgk920]

recall a while ago when the Stoughton Rd corridor was referred to by some as the 'East Beltline'.  A few more steps towards realizing that reality?

 

Mike

You mean, like a full freeway? Not a chance.

< smile >

Mike

[The Ghostbuster]

Stoughton Rd. was originally called the East Madison Beltline, but I believe that name died out pretty quickly. As much as I'd like US 51 to be completely freeway between US 12/18 and Interstates 39/90/94, I realize it will never happen (due to the existence of the forementioned Interstates).

[Molandfreak]

Plus if they plan to build more interchanges on 39/90/94 to better serve local traffic, why would they go through the trouble of constructing a parallel freeway?

[SEWIGuy]

Also the time at which the phrase "East Beltline" would have been developed, the Beltline wasn't a freeway. Stoughton Road certainly shouldn't be one now.

[mgk920]

Stoughton Rd. was originally called the East Madison Beltline, but I believe that name died out pretty quickly. As much as I'd like US 51 to be completely freeway between US 12/18 and Interstates 39/90/94, I realize it will never happen (due to the existence of the forementioned Interstates).

Neither WisDOT nor the feds will allow more interchanges to be added along I-19/90/94 nor WI 30.  It is a pure bypass highway system for longer distance regional and through traffic.  Stoughton Rd already has oodles of local traffic on it (with calls from others upthread in here for more lanes and local access interchanges).  As long as personal vehicles remain popular, that traffic will continue to increase (I don't want to be here when the need for SERIOUS upgrades for its interchange at the Beltline comes due).

Mike

[hobsini2]

Stoughton Rd. was originally called the East Madison Beltline, but I believe that name died out pretty quickly. As much as I'd like US 51 to be completely freeway between US 12/18 and Interstates 39/90/94, I realize it will never happen (due to the existence of the forementioned Interstates).

Neither WisDOT nor the feds will allow more interchanges to be added along I-19/90/94 nor WI 30.  It is a pure bypass highway system for longer distance regional and through traffic.  Stoughton Rd already has oodles of local traffic on it (with calls from others upthread in here for more lanes and local access interchanges).  As long as personal vehicles remain popular, that traffic will continue to increase (I don't want to be here when the need for SERIOUS upgrades for its interchange at the Beltline comes due).

Mike

Between Hwy N and Hwy V, where could one build an interchange on 39/90/94?  Of the existing bridges that do not have one, some of them have problems to being an interchange.

Hwy MN - too close to the Weigh Station
Hwy AB - too short a road but it does already have an interchange with 12/18
Sigglekow Rd - potential and does have an interchange with 51
Femrite Dr - too close to 12/18
Buckeye Rd - potential
Cottage Grove Rd - too close to 94/30
Milwaukee St - to close to 94/30
Commercial Ave - to close to 94/30
Lien Rd - too minor
Hansen Rd - potential
Hoepker Rd - potential
River Rd / Windsor Rd - potential
Cuba Valley Rd - potential

[SEWIGuy]

Stoughton Rd. was originally called the East Madison Beltline, but I believe that name died out pretty quickly. As much as I'd like US 51 to be completely freeway between US 12/18 and Interstates 39/90/94, I realize it will never happen (due to the existence of the forementioned Interstates).

Neither WisDOT nor the feds will allow more interchanges to be added along I-19/90/94 nor WI 30.  It is a pure bypass highway system for longer distance regional and through traffic.  Stoughton Rd already has oodles of local traffic on it (with calls from others upthread in here for more lanes and local access interchanges).  As long as personal vehicles remain popular, that traffic will continue to increase (I don't want to be here when the need for SERIOUS upgrades for its interchange at the Beltline comes due).

Mike

Between Hwy N and Hwy V, where could one build an interchange on 39/90/94?  Of the existing bridges that do not have one, some of them have problems to being an interchange.

Hwy MN - too close to the Weigh Station
Hwy AB - too short a road but it does already have an interchange with 12/18
Sigglekow Rd - potential and does have an interchange with 51
Femrite Dr - too close to 12/18
Buckeye Rd - potential
Cottage Grove Rd - too close to 94/30
Milwaukee St - to close to 94/30
Commercial Ave - to close to 94/30
Lien Rd - too minor
Hansen Rd - potential
Hoepker Rd - potential
River Rd / Windsor Rd - potential
Cuba Valley Rd - potential

Hoepker Road is proposed for one in the upcoming I-39/90/94 project right?

Anyway, you can't really put one anywhere between WI-30 / I-94 and the Beltline now because its all built up. But there was definitely room for one at either Buckeye Road or Cottage Grove Road back when it was built - Buckeye would have been preferable IMO.

[hobsini2]

Stoughton Rd. was originally called the East Madison Beltline, but I believe that name died out pretty quickly. As much as I'd like US 51 to be completely freeway between US 12/18 and Interstates 39/90/94, I realize it will never happen (due to the existence of the forementioned Interstates).

Neither WisDOT nor the feds will allow more interchanges to be added along I-19/90/94 nor WI 30.  It is a pure bypass highway system for longer distance regional and through traffic.  Stoughton Rd already has oodles of local traffic on it (with calls from others upthread in here for more lanes and local access interchanges).  As long as personal vehicles remain popular, that traffic will continue to increase (I don't want to be here when the need for SERIOUS upgrades for its interchange at the Beltline comes due).

Mike

Between Hwy N and Hwy V, where could one build an interchange on 39/90/94?  Of the existing bridges that do not have one, some of them have problems to being an interchange.

Hwy MN - too close to the Weigh Station
Hwy AB - too short a road but it does already have an interchange with 12/18
Sigglekow Rd - potential and does have an interchange with 51
Femrite Dr - too close to 12/18
Buckeye Rd - potential
Cottage Grove Rd - too close to 94/30
Milwaukee St - to close to 94/30
Commercial Ave - to close to 94/30
Lien Rd - too minor
Hansen Rd - potential
Hoepker Rd - potential
River Rd / Windsor Rd - potential
Cuba Valley Rd - potential

Hoepker Road is proposed for one in the upcoming I-39/90/94 project right?

Anyway, you can't really put one anywhere between WI-30 / I-94 and the Beltline now because its all built up. But there was definitely room for one at either Buckeye Road or Cottage Grove Road back when it was built - Buckeye would have been preferable IMO.

Eminent domain! lol

Even though I am joking about that, ED would have to be done now to get one at Buckeye or Cottage Grove these days.

[mgk920]

There was plenty of room, but no local traffic demand, when that all was first built (mid 20th century, early post-WWII era).  It was literally in the middle of nowhere in relation to the city.

Mike

[The Ghostbuster]

If an interchange were to be added on Interstates 39/90 between STH 30/Interstate 94 and US 12/18, I would put it at CTH BB/Cottage Grove Rd., since BB is already a four-lane divided roadway both east and west of 39/90. The CTH AB/E. Buckeye Rd. overpass was replaced sometime between 2007 and 2011, so additional work would be needed to make it an interchange. The future Milwaukee St. interchange will serve the neighborhood south of Interstate 94, and the future Hoepker Rd. will serve East Madison Hospital and the surrounding American Center businesses (although an interchange at Hanson Rd. would have directly served the hospital).

[hobsini2]

There was plenty of room, but no local traffic demand, when that all was first built (mid 20th century, early post-WWII era).  It was literally in the middle of nowhere in relation to the city.

Mike

I even remember on road trips to Grandma's, Madison was always dark to go through on 90/94 (yes before 39) at night. The only civilization was East Towne Mall and a Holiday Inn at 12/18 in the SE quadrant.

[TheCatalyst31]

If an interchange were to be added on Interstates 39/90 between STH 30/Interstate 94 and US 12/18, I would put it at CTH BB/Cottage Grove Rd., since BB is already a four-lane divided roadway both east and west of 39/90. The CTH AB/E. Buckeye Rd. overpass was replaced sometime between 2007 and 2011, so additional work would be needed to make it an interchange. The future Milwaukee St. interchange will serve the neighborhood south of Interstate 94, and the future Hoepker Rd. will serve East Madison Hospital and the surrounding American Center businesses (although an interchange at Hanson Rd. would have directly served the hospital).

There's no room for one there, unless you want to do a bunch of eminent domain for an interchange. The neighborhood is developed up to the highway, including a police station that would probably have to relocate.

[The Ghostbuster]

Well, the least they could do is replace the existing CTH BB/Cottage Grove Rd. overpass with a four-lane bridge. I dislike how it goes from four-lanes divided, to two-lanes undivided (over the bridge), back to four-lanes divided.

[SEWIGuy]

Well, the least they could do is replace the existing CTH BB/Cottage Grove Rd. overpass with a four-lane bridge. I dislike how it goes from four-lanes divided, to two-lanes undivided (over the bridge), back to four-lanes divided.

Well, send and email because they are in the design phase for rebabing that actual bridge.

https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/i39-bridgesmadison/default.aspx

[mgk920]

Well, the least they could do is replace the existing CTH BB/Cottage Grove Rd. overpass with a four-lane bridge. I dislike how it goes from four-lanes divided, to two-lanes undivided (over the bridge), back to four-lanes divided.

I would suspect that that bridge is original to the highway, dating back to the mid 20th century when that area was all wide-open undeveloped land in the middle of nowhere.

Mike

[JREwing78]

Most of the options seem geared towards turning the Stoughton Rd corridor into another downtown/multi-use higher-density pedestrian/biking mecca, which is why they clearly want to drop the speed limit to 35. The only reason Stoughton Rd is getting widened to 6 lanes and they left a 45 mph option on the table is that the other proposals would be laughed out of the room if that option wasn't there.

Clearly they don't want another freeway - and it doesn't need to be one. But the worst thing they could do is turn it into another plodding city street that can't move people around with cars or transit effectively. Particularly in the N/S direction, Madison has few efficient options to get around town, and WisDOT seems hell-bent on removing one. 

I can understand the impulse to add crossings for bike/ped or vehicles across Stoughton Rd. They can do this without adding more access points TO Stoughton Rd (and more places for accidents).  They can also certainly add bus connectivity - and with the available right-of-way BRT is the correct answer. 

They also have room to add N/S mobility for bikes and peds - but is anyone in Madison asking to walk or bike along another busy city street, particularly one where traffic is tempted to drive it like a freeway.

So far, I'm not particularly impressed with any of their options. They seem determined to turn a corridor that's pretty clearly prioritized to move cars quickly with relatively few neighborhood impacts (the road was there first) into a stroad. It's neither fish nor fowl, not a great way to move cars or a very good corridor for high-density urbanization. 

[The Ghostbuster]

I would be fine with Stoughton Rd. having a 45 MPH speed limit for the entire duration between STH 30 and US 12/18, although I would oppose a 35 MPH speed limit. Personally, I would like upgrades of the Pflaum Rd. and Buckeye Rd. intersections into interchanges that include bridges and ramps. The roadway should be constructed similarly to the upgrades of Verona Rd. at the former signaled intersections of CTH PD/McKee Rd. and Williamsburg Way. I'd also like at least one additional grade-separation between Buckeye and Pflaum constructed (perhaps connecting Helgesen with the south frontage road, and/or connecting Allis Ave. with the north frontage road). At Cottage Grove Rd., the northbound exit and entrance ramps should be constructed similarly to how the southbound exit and entrance ramps were reconstructed from 2014 to 2016. The Milwaukee St. interchange can remain as-is. Although I would like improvements to be made at the Broadway intersection, it will likely be reconstructed as-is.

[SEWIGuy]

I would be fine with Stoughton Rd. having a 45 MPH speed limit for the entire duration between STH 30 and US 12/18, although I would oppose a 35 MPH speed limit. Personally, I would like upgrades of the Pflaum Rd. and Buckeye Rd. intersections into interchanges that include bridges and ramps. The roadway should be constructed similarly to the upgrades of Verona Rd. at the former signaled intersections of CTH PD/McKee Rd. and Williamsburg Way. I'd also like at least one additional grade-separation between Buckeye and Pflaum constructed (perhaps connecting Helgesen with the south frontage road, and/or connecting Allis Ave. with the north frontage road). At Cottage Grove Rd., the northbound exit and entrance ramps should be constructed similarly to how the southbound exit and entrance ramps were reconstructed from 2014 to 2016. The Milwaukee St. interchange can remain as-is. Although I would like improvements to be made at the Broadway intersection, it will likely be reconstructed as-is.

No on the bolded. In fact it should be the opposite. Verona Road needed to be upgraded like that because it is part of a regional highway that connects to points outside of Madison and therefore has a ton of through traffic.

Stoughton Road is a heavily used local road. It shouldn't develop into more like a freeway.

[The Ghostbuster]

So, what would you do at Buckeye and Pflaum? I don't think keeping them signaled intersections, and just adding an additional general-purpose lane and additional turn lanes will be enough to reduce congestion and decrease crashes.

[SEWIGuy]

So, what would you do at Buckeye and Pflaum? I don't think keeping them signaled intersections, and just adding an additional general-purpose lane and additional turn lanes will be enough to reduce congestion and decrease crashes.

I think the best option is to slow it down and make it a boulevard.

[JREwing78]

So, what would you do at Buckeye and Pflaum? I don't think keeping them signaled intersections, and just adding an additional general-purpose lane and additional turn lanes will be enough to reduce congestion and decrease crashes.

If we're going to keep stoplights, turn it into a Michigan Left arrangement. Personally I would replace them with overpasses. Convert the frontage roads to one-way traffic, with turnarounds in the middle and at each end near Buckeye and Pflaum.