Indiana Notes

[jnewkirk77]

SR 38 is no longer cosigned with US 421 and sr 39 in Frankfort it now has a gap in it. It ends north of the city and picks up again just south of the city.
Very confusing at first as I was going to use 38 to get to Lafayette from there.

Where are the endpoints exactly?  Are they just random like at the city limits, or at actual road junctions?  (Such as the junction of 38 and 39 at Antioch, south of Frankfort.)  Not that it makes any real sense to drop 38 for no reason, but if they did it, at least make it make some sense.

[silverback1065]

The north end is where they split off north of the city. And the south end is at Antioch. My guess is they did this because they thought 3 routes on the same road is confusing. Sr 38 west of us 31 is a weird road. It zigzags like crazy!
Any other decommissioning/reroute news?

[NE2]

Well, they tried back in 1926...

The entire state highway system has been renumbered, which was effective at the beginning of the fiscal year October 1, 1926. In records and tables for the fiscal year ending September 30, 1926, the "old" road numbers are used. The "new" numbers are used in tables for year ending September 30, 1927. The renumbering of the state roads was made necessary from two causes:

First. To accommodate the new mileage of about 1,000 miles which the Commission is taking into the state system. When the original system was numbered, April 1, 1920, it was not known what additional roads might be added to the system, and hence numbers could not be applied to the roads at that time in such a way as to make provisions for the added mileage which was to come later. In order to take care of added mileage, the numbers on about one-fourth the system were changed on October 1, 1923. However, only such changes were made at that time as were necessary to accommodate new roads taken over up to that date. This left some inconsistencies in the numbering system which were corrected by changing the entire numbering system on October 1, 1926.

Second. This change is to conform with the new federal system of numbering U. S. highways. A joint board appointed by the Secretary of Agriculture from the state highway officials and bureau of public roads selected and numbered a system of through routes in the United States, disregarding state boundaries. In this federal numbering system a road extending from coast to coast, from Canada to Mexico, or such other length across the borders of the various states, has the same number. These routes are known as U. S. highways and will be a great convenience to through traffic. In order to conform with these new numbers it was necessary to change our numbering system in many respects. In the state of Indiana there are 1,909.49 miles of U. S. highways. The length of these U. S. highways, which are now being maintained as state roads, is 1,653.26 miles; 179.17 miles are inside of towns over 2,500 population; 19.4 miles are not yet in state system and 57.66 miles are duplicated on two routes. Table 3 on page 1214 gives these roads by number.

In renumbering the roads, an attempt was made to apply, as far as possible, the numbers in such a way as to make provisions for future additions to the state system, without having to change numbers on roads now in the system. This made it necessary to skip certain numbers at this time.

In applying new numbers to the state system the U. S. highway numbers as prescribed by the joint board were adopted. The remainder of state roads were assigned a new number as described below. The joint board system of numbering applied so far as practicable even numbers to the east and west roads, beginning in the northern part of the United States and numbering southward; odd numbers to the north and south roads, beginning in the eastern part of the United States and extending westward. The new state numbering applied this same system so far as it was practical, using even numbers for the east and west roads, beginning with the smaller number in the northern part of the state and extending southward; using odd numbers for the north and south roads, beginning in the eastern part of the state and extending westward. Inasmuch as U. S. highways had already been numbered by the joint board, the state system of numbering did not apply a second number to them.

[tdindy88]

Are there actual "end" signs at both ends. I'm just not sure why it just can't be a silent merge sort of thing. Just thinking here, but, as one who's driven the route, the part of SR 38 from Frankfort to Sheridan could be gutted to leave two solid pieces of highway. SR 38 (parts of it) isn't even the fastest route between Frankfort and Sheridan.

Or, you radically change things up by rerouting US 421 onto SR 38 north of Frankfort to I-65 by Lafayette, follow I-65 up to the SR 43 exit and follow SR 43 north to Reynolds and resume heading north from there along its original path. That way, there's no split in SR 38 anymore and with SR 43 gone north of Lafayette there's no longer a "gap" in that highway. Finally, SR 39 can be by itself once more from Frankfort all the way to Monticello and US 24 loses its concurrency west to Reynolds. You would eliminate two gaps in state highway and a pretty long concurrency with US 421/SR 39. Fictional highways stuff sure, but I see some logic in it. When INDOT gives you lemons.....

[silverback1065]

Are there actual "end" signs at both ends. I'm just not sure why it just can't be a silent merge sort of thing. Just thinking here, but, as one who's driven the route, the part of SR 38 from Frankfort to Sheridan could be gutted to leave two solid pieces of highway. SR 38 (parts of it) isn't even the fastest route between Frankfort and Sheridan.

Or, you radically change things up by rerouting US 421 onto SR 38 north of Frankfort to I-65 by Lafayette, follow I-65 up to the SR 43 exit and follow SR 43 north to Reynolds and resume heading north from there along its original path. That way, there's no split in SR 38 anymore and with SR 43 gone north of Lafayette there's no longer a "gap" in that highway. Finally, SR 39 can be by itself once more from Frankfort all the way to Monticello and US 24 loses its concurrency west to Reynolds. You would eliminate two gaps in state highway and a pretty long concurrency with US 421/SR 39. Fictional highways stuff sure, but I see some logic in it. When INDOT gives you lemons.....

yes there are end signs at either end.  They should make SR 38 take over for 47 between 421 and sheridan, then cosign it all the way to the point it splits off just north of Frankfort.

[jnewkirk77]

I'm glad they at least used logical endpoints ... INDOT doesn't always, you know (cough - 61 in Vincennes, 257 in Stendal, etc. etc. etc.).

I've driven that stretch of 38 a few times, and my brother who lives in Westfield and works in Frankfort does every day ... not a happy highway.  I could see the reroutes being done, but would they?  Probably not.

[silverback1065]

I'm glad they at least used logical endpoints ... INDOT doesn't always, you know (cough - 61 in Vincennes, 257 in Stendal, etc. etc. etc.).

I've driven that stretch of 38 a few times, and my brother who lives in Westfield and works in Frankfort does every day ... not a happy highway.  I could see the reroutes being done, but would they?  Probably not.

SR 450 also makes no sense SR 257 is the only route in Indiana that I know of that doesn't end at another highway on either end. 

[billtm]

Wait, so for SR 38, did any actual road get decomissioned? Or was it just the numbering?

[jnewkirk77]

I'm glad they at least used logical endpoints ... INDOT doesn't always, you know (cough - 61 in Vincennes, 257 in Stendal, etc. etc. etc.).

I've driven that stretch of 38 a few times, and my brother who lives in Westfield and works in Frankfort does every day ... not a happy highway.  I could see the reroutes being done, but would they?  Probably not.

SR 450 also makes no sense SR 257 is the only route in Indiana that I know of that doesn't end at another highway on either end.

Technically 257 does end at a state highway at its north end, or at least it did last time I checked. As of last year, INDOT still maintains Old 50/150 from Maysville through Washington ... it's even listed as the "longest old U.S. route" in the state highway system on their website.  Evidently they've never gotten Washington and Daviess County to take it over - and what's it been since the 50/150 bypass opened, 25 years???

[silverback1065]

I'm glad they at least used logical endpoints ... INDOT doesn't always, you know (cough - 61 in Vincennes, 257 in Stendal, etc. etc. etc.).

I've driven that stretch of 38 a few times, and my brother who lives in Westfield and works in Frankfort does every day ... not a happy highway.  I could see the reroutes being done, but would they?  Probably not.

SR 450 also makes no sense SR 257 is the only route in Indiana that I know of that doesn't end at another highway on either end.

Technically 257 does end at a state highway at its north end, or at least it did last time I checked. As of last year, INDOT still maintains Old 50/150 from Maysville through Washington ... it's even listed as the "longest old U.S. route" in the state highway system on their website.  Evidently they've never gotten Washington and Daviess County to take it over - and what's it been since the 50/150 bypass opened, 25 years???

Really I wonder why they won't sign it

[hbelkins]

Really I wonder why they won't sign it

I seem to recall it being signed as Business 50.

[jnewkirk77]

We were through there in November, and it's signed as Business 50 as a trailblazer off of mainline 50, just west of I-69, but nowhere else that I saw.  Out at Maysville, there used to be advance signs for "To 50" before the 300W intersection - I presume they're still up.  Next time I'm out that way, I'll look.

At the 257 and 57 junctions, I remember there used to be Business 50 signs, but they're gone now.  Not sure why.

[silverback1065]

We were through there in November, and it's signed as Business 50 as a trailblazer off of mainline 50, just west of I-69, but nowhere else that I saw.  Out at Maysville, there used to be advance signs for "To 50" before the 300W intersection - I presume they're still up.  Next time I'm out that way, I'll look.

At the 257 and 57 junctions, I remember there used to be Business 50 signs, but they're gone now.  Not sure why.

Streetview says the north end of 257 is completely unsigned. Weird, INDOT doesnt have many unsigned SRs this is really the only one I can think of, other than old US 31 in St Joseph county (I don't think that's signed as 931)  I think US 52 in West Lafayette was finally turned over.

[jnewkirk77]

It is weird ... but, that's today's INDOT.

[nwi_navigator_1181]

Taking a read of the letting list which was effective last month, here's some highlights of what's to come for Northwest Indiana, highly likely to start this year:

(Much needed) Concrete restoration is planned for I-65 between I-80/94 and U.S. 30. There are some ragged breaks in the concrete (which really hasn't been treated since the extension and modification projects ended more than 10 years ago), so this will be welcoming, delays be damned.

Another round of bridge deck repairs are set for I-94 from the Toll Road junction to Michigan. The bridges that weren't touched last year or the year before will get the treatment this time.

The TrafficWise system is set to expand on I-94 beyond State Road 249. More cameras and Distance/Time signs are to be installed as far northeast as the Michigan State Line.

On a local level, Indiana 51 (Ripley Street) will face a big project replacing the bridge over Burns Ditch (located just north of the Borman Expressway interchange). This has the potential for massive delays since it's located near a busy intersection and along a major stopping point for truckers.

Indiana 2 will be among the first highways in NWI to have center line rumble strips installed. The stretch covered will be between U.S. 41 and I-65.

Indiana 130 will have work done between the Indiana 51 split and Indiana 149. Rumble strips will be installed on the shoulders for the aforementioned stretch, and a much needed fix will be in place for the intersection with County Line Road. A traffic signal is scheduled to replace the current flashing red light schematic, and the intersection will be slightly adjusted to improve its safety (the four-way stop currently sits next to a busy set of railroad tracks, which is potentially hazardous during peak times; school and work traffic is heavy in that area, with the nearby County Line Orchard compounding things during the fall).

For those in the Hobart-Merrillville area, 61st Avenue between Arizona Street and Indiana 51 will be widened. Included in this project will be landscaped medians, a new bridge over the Deep River, and a roundabout at Wisconsin Street (which will only be three points). Work is set to be completed in 2016.

[silverback1065]

the state should rid themselves of SR 130 completely and SR 149 south of US 6

[nwi_navigator_1181]

the state should rid themselves of SR 130 completely and SR 149 south of US 6

Respectfully disagree. Highway 130 is a major connection between Valparaiso and a large portion of Northern Lake County. Giving it to local municipalities (many of which SR 130 doesn't even touch) would hurt it in the long run. The proposed truncation to Indiana 149 - if it's taking place - is enough.

Same with Indiana 149. This is another fast track corridor that would lose its effectiveness if the state relinquishes it. Leave these roads be.

[silverback1065]

the state should rid themselves of SR 130 completely and SR 149 south of US 6

Respectfully disagree. Highway 130 is a major connection between Valparaiso and a large portion of Northern Lake County. Giving it to local municipalities (many of which SR 130 doesn't even touch) would hurt it in the long run. The proposed truncation to Indiana 149 - if it's taking place - is enough.

Same with Indiana 149. This is another fast track corridor that would lose its effectiveness if the state relinquishes it. Leave these roads be.

Sr 130 doesn't exist anymore east of 149. At least that's what the indot map says. Does anyone know if sr 56 has been rerouted around Madison?

[pianocello]

Sr 130 doesn't exist anymore east of 149. At least that's what the indot map says.

I've heard that for over a year (page 2 of this thread, actually), and I can confirm that SR 130 still exists all the way to the corner of Sturdy and 30, at least in the field. I'll let you know when the signs start disappearing.

FWIW, if 130 does disappear completely, it'll just turn into one of those roads that's known solely by its former designation. It's one of the preferred routes between Valpo and Chicago (cheaper than the Toll Road, fewer stoplights than 30-65 and 49-94), so INDOT may as well hold on to it.

[nwi_navigator_1181]

Sr 130 doesn't exist anymore east of 149. At least that's what the indot map says.

I've heard that for over a year (page 2 of this thread, actually), and I can confirm that SR 130 still exists all the way to the corner of Sturdy and 30, at least in the field. I'll let you know when the signs start disappearing.

FWIW, if 130 does disappear completely, it'll just turn into one of those roads that's known solely by its former designation. It's one of the preferred routes between Valpo and Chicago (cheaper than the Toll Road, fewer stoplights than 30-65 and 49-94), so INDOT may as well hold on to it.

And MUCH shorter, since it's a virtual straight line from Valpo to Hobart. Definitely one road INDOT should keep.

[pianocello]

I can confirm that SR 130 still exists all the way to the corner of Sturdy and 30, at least in the field. I'll let you know when the signs start disappearing.

UPDATE: Signs are gone near the roundabout near its eastern end. I'm disappointed.

[nwi_navigator_1181]

I can confirm that SR 130 still exists all the way to the corner of Sturdy and 30, at least in the field. I'll let you know when the signs start disappearing.

UPDATE: Signs are gone near the roundabout near its eastern end. I'm disappointed.

A couple assurance signs still exist between downtown and Indiana 149. Do not yet despair.

Also in Valparaiso, the first instance of Red Arrow traffic lights have been installed on U.S. 30 from just west of Indiana 2 (west junction) to at least the Indiana 2 west junction. I turned left there so I don't know how far they're going with it.

[pianocello]

I can confirm that SR 130 still exists all the way to the corner of Sturdy and 30, at least in the field. I'll let you know when the signs start disappearing.

UPDATE: Signs are gone near the roundabout near its eastern end. I'm disappointed.

A couple assurance signs still exist between downtown and Indiana 149. Do not yet despair.

Also in Valparaiso, the first instance of Red Arrow traffic lights have been installed on U.S. 30 from just west of Indiana 2 (west junction) to at least the Indiana 2 west junction. I turned left there so I don't know how far they're going with it.

They replaced the ones between SR 2 and SR 49 as well. They even included a red arrow for right turns, but they didn't sync it up with the opposing left turn arrow, which is weird.

[silverback1065]

I can confirm that SR 130 still exists all the way to the corner of Sturdy and 30, at least in the field. I'll let you know when the signs start disappearing.

UPDATE: Signs are gone near the roundabout near its eastern end. I'm disappointed.

A couple assurance signs still exist between downtown and Indiana 149. Do not yet despair.

Also in Valparaiso, the first instance of Red Arrow traffic lights have been installed on U.S. 30 from just west of Indiana 2 (west junction) to at least the Indiana 2 west junction. I turned left there so I don't know how far they're going with it.

They replaced the ones between SR 2 and SR 49 as well. They even included a red arrow for right turns, but they didn't sync it up with the opposing left turn arrow, which is weird.

I was just going to post about this!  They are all over Lafayette too, they don't seem to serve any purpose, they have no special phase, they are green for the entire thru movement and red all other times.  I really don't get their purpose. 

[mukade]

Construction of a new, privately operated Cline Avenue Bridge over the Indiana Harbor and Ship Canal in East Chicago finally will begin this spring...

Cline Avenue Bridge construction to begin in spring  (NWI Times)