Indiana Notes

[billtm]

65 is open

10 days ahead of schedule too! My Dad (with me in the car) just drove over the previously closed segment this afternoon on our way back from Lexington, and everything looks the same. While we were going past Greensburg, I saw a something horrible! On the bridge at Exit 132 over I-74, the northbound BGS over the bridge had a IN-421 sign on it instead of a US 421 sign.

[iBallasticwolf2]

On the bridge at Exit 132 over I-74, the northbound BGS over the bridge had a IN-421 sign on it instead of a US 421 sign.

I've seen that before myself. Absolutely Ennorus.

[silverback1065]

On the bridge at Exit 132 over I-74, the northbound BGS over the bridge had a IN-421 sign on it instead of a US 421 sign.

I've seen that before myself. Absolutely Ennorus.

Same here, there's also one for us 27 somewhere in Indiana

[silverback1065]

Can anyone driving up to Lafayette via US 52 confirm that all the temporary signage/signals have been removed?

[NWI_Irish96]

The number of miles in the highway system is nowhere near the cap. If it was you would have never seen the advent of SR 931 and SR 750 or the extension of SR 445.

Then why the fk is INDOT deconnecting all these state roads?
BTW, I don't think the courthouse rule exists, because the Tippecanoe County Courthouse is no longer served by a state road.

Current INDOT rules are that if a road is not maintained by INDOT, then it can't be signed as a state highway.  As more highways are built/improved (I-69, US 31, I-65), INDOT believes (rightly so) that it's a better use of their resources to focus on these roads rather than state highways running through cities, plus if cities maintian the roads, they get to decide how to maintain them rather than INDOT deciding.

With the large number of disconnected state highways we now have, I think there needs to be some way for INDOT and cities to agree on a way to keep roads signed even if INDOT isn't maintaining them. 

[silverback1065]

The number of miles in the highway system is nowhere near the cap. If it was you would have never seen the advent of SR 931 and SR 750 or the extension of SR 445.

Then why the fk is INDOT deconnecting all these state roads?
BTW, I don't think the courthouse rule exists, because the Tippecanoe County Courthouse is no longer served by a state road.

Current INDOT rules are that if a road is not maintained by INDOT, then it can't be signed as a state highway.  As more highways are built/improved (I-69, US 31, I-65), INDOT believes (rightly so) that it's a better use of their resources to focus on these roads rather than state highways running through cities, plus if cities maintian the roads, they get to decide how to maintain them rather than INDOT deciding.

With the large number of disconnected state highways we now have, I think there needs to be some way for INDOT and cities to agree on a way to keep roads signed even if INDOT isn't maintaining them.

Bring business routes to the mainstream here. 

[US 41]

The number of miles in the highway system is nowhere near the cap. If it was you would have never seen the advent of SR 931 and SR 750 or the extension of SR 445.

Then why the fk is INDOT deconnecting all these state roads?
BTW, I don't think the courthouse rule exists, because the Tippecanoe County Courthouse is no longer served by a state road.

Current INDOT rules are that if a road is not maintained by INDOT, then it can't be signed as a state highway.  As more highways are built/improved (I-69, US 31, I-65), INDOT believes (rightly so) that it's a better use of their resources to focus on these roads rather than state highways running through cities, plus if cities maintian the roads, they get to decide how to maintain them rather than INDOT deciding.

With the large number of disconnected state highways we now have, I think there needs to be some way for INDOT and cities to agree on a way to keep roads signed even if INDOT isn't maintaining them.

Are Emergency Detrour Routes maintained (at least parially) by the state? The reason I ask this is because Wabash Ave through Terre Haute was signed by INDOT as Emergency Route 70 through Terre Haute on the old 40.

[silverback1065]

The number of miles in the highway system is nowhere near the cap. If it was you would have never seen the advent of SR 931 and SR 750 or the extension of SR 445.

Then why the fk is INDOT deconnecting all these state roads?
BTW, I don't think the courthouse rule exists, because the Tippecanoe County Courthouse is no longer served by a state road.

Current INDOT rules are that if a road is not maintained by INDOT, then it can't be signed as a state highway.  As more highways are built/improved (I-69, US 31, I-65), INDOT believes (rightly so) that it's a better use of their resources to focus on these roads rather than state highways running through cities, plus if cities maintian the roads, they get to decide how to maintain them rather than INDOT deciding.

With the large number of disconnected state highways we now have, I think there needs to be some way for INDOT and cities to agree on a way to keep roads signed even if INDOT isn't maintaining them.

Are Emergency Detrour Routes maintained (at least parially) by the state? The reason I ask this is because Wabash Ave through Terre Haute was signed by INDOT as Emergency Route 70 through Terre Haute on the old 40.

I think the only portion that INDOT gave up was the portion from SR 46 to US 41, they still own and maintain National ave I believe, but don't sign it. 

[US 41]

The number of miles in the highway system is nowhere near the cap. If it was you would have never seen the advent of SR 931 and SR 750 or the extension of SR 445.

Then why the fk is INDOT deconnecting all these state roads?
BTW, I don't think the courthouse rule exists, because the Tippecanoe County Courthouse is no longer served by a state road.

Current INDOT rules are that if a road is not maintained by INDOT, then it can't be signed as a state highway.  As more highways are built/improved (I-69, US 31, I-65), INDOT believes (rightly so) that it's a better use of their resources to focus on these roads rather than state highways running through cities, plus if cities maintian the roads, they get to decide how to maintain them rather than INDOT deciding.

With the large number of disconnected state highways we now have, I think there needs to be some way for INDOT and cities to agree on a way to keep roads signed even if INDOT isn't maintaining them.

Are Emergency Detrour Routes maintained (at least parially) by the state? The reason I ask this is because Wabash Ave through Terre Haute was signed by INDOT as Emergency Route 70 through Terre Haute on the old 40.

I think the only portion that INDOT gave up was the portion from SR 46 to US 41, they still own and maintain National ave I believe, but don't sign it.

I didn't know that. It makes sense though. I always thought West Terre Haute or Vigo County would be crazy to buy into taking care of a 4 lane highway. INDOT ought to to sign it as either SR 340 or 940 IMO.

Construction News: On National Ave they are currently rebuilding all of the bridges between West Terre Haute and I-70.

[silverback1065]

The number of miles in the highway system is nowhere near the cap. If it was you would have never seen the advent of SR 931 and SR 750 or the extension of SR 445.

Then why the fk is INDOT deconnecting all these state roads?
BTW, I don't think the courthouse rule exists, because the Tippecanoe County Courthouse is no longer served by a state road.

Current INDOT rules are that if a road is not maintained by INDOT, then it can't be signed as a state highway.  As more highways are built/improved (I-69, US 31, I-65), INDOT believes (rightly so) that it's a better use of their resources to focus on these roads rather than state highways running through cities, plus if cities maintian the roads, they get to decide how to maintain them rather than INDOT deciding.

With the large number of disconnected state highways we now have, I think there needs to be some way for INDOT and cities to agree on a way to keep roads signed even if INDOT isn't maintaining them.

Are Emergency Detrour Routes maintained (at least parially) by the state? The reason I ask this is because Wabash Ave through Terre Haute was signed by INDOT as Emergency Route 70 through Terre Haute on the old 40.

I think the only portion that INDOT gave up was the portion from SR 46 to US 41, they still own and maintain National ave I believe, but don't sign it.

I didn't know that. It makes sense though. I always thought West Terre Haute or Vigo County would be crazy to buy into taking care of a 4 lane highway. INDOT ought to to sign it as either SR 340 or 940 IMO.

Construction News: On National Ave they are currently rebuilding all of the bridges between West Terre Haute and I-70.

I guess us 40 was rerouted because terre haute wanted to take care of their small portion.  I do think they should sign National Av.  I'm guess SR 340 (near brazil) exists because the county doesn't want it.

[bmeiser]

Thought this was a cool article to share here:
http://historicindianapolis.com/the-crumbling-crossroads-of-america/

Talks about the origin of the slogan "The Crossroads of America" (and the controversy surrounding it), has some cool old pictures of US 40, and compares our highway infrastructure issues today with those back before state highway standards were introduced.

Side note: if you're interested in the history of Indianapolis, this website is a great read: http://historicindianapolis.com.

[silverback1065]

news on SR 912: http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/cline-avenue-bridge-rebuild-looking-good-copeland-says/article_3a8623a4-f7e8-561a-a533-9fa3ee09fdbb.html

I'm not familiar with the toll roads in the area, but isn't $2.50 pretty high just for one bridge?

[US 41]

news on SR 912: http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/cline-avenue-bridge-rebuild-looking-good-copeland-says/article_3a8623a4-f7e8-561a-a533-9fa3ee09fdbb.html

I'm not familiar with the toll roads in the area, but isn't $2.50 pretty high just for one bridge?

And that's if you use EZPASS or I-PASS. If you don't have either one of those it will be over $5 to cross it. I think that is pretty high.

[silverback1065]

news on SR 912: http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/cline-avenue-bridge-rebuild-looking-good-copeland-says/article_3a8623a4-f7e8-561a-a533-9fa3ee09fdbb.html

I'm not familiar with the toll roads in the area, but isn't $2.50 pretty high just for one bridge?

And that's if you use EZPASS or I-PASS. If you don't have either one of those it will be over $5 to cross it. I think that is pretty high.

That's not worth it, I don't understand why INDOT just doesn't seem to care enough about this road to do it themselves and make it toll free like before, wasn't this a decently traveled highway?   

[US 41]

news on SR 912: http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/cline-avenue-bridge-rebuild-looking-good-copeland-says/article_3a8623a4-f7e8-561a-a533-9fa3ee09fdbb.html

I'm not familiar with the toll roads in the area, but isn't $2.50 pretty high just for one bridge?

And that's if you use EZPASS or I-PASS. If you don't have either one of those it will be over $5 to cross it. I think that is pretty high.

That's not worth it, I don't understand why INDOT just doesn't seem to care enough about this road to do it themselves and make it toll free like before, wasn't this a decently traveled highway?

I believe it did receive quite a bit of traffic. I think taking SR 312 to US 41 would make more sense than paying anywhere from $2.50 to $5 to cross a bridge. I can only imagine how much it would cost an 18 wheeler to cross.

This is also a perfect example of why I am against privatization of toll roads. I think state governments should operate them and only charge an equal amount of what it will cost to pay / take care of the road. Toll roads should not be money makers for a business.

[silverback1065]

news on SR 912: http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/cline-avenue-bridge-rebuild-looking-good-copeland-says/article_3a8623a4-f7e8-561a-a533-9fa3ee09fdbb.html

I'm not familiar with the toll roads in the area, but isn't $2.50 pretty high just for one bridge?

And that's if you use EZPASS or I-PASS. If you don't have either one of those it will be over $5 to cross it. I think that is pretty high.

That's not worth it, I don't understand why INDOT just doesn't seem to care enough about this road to do it themselves and make it toll free like before, wasn't this a decently traveled highway?

I believe it did receive quite a bit of traffic. I think taking SR 312 to US 41 would make more sense than paying anywhere from $2.50 to $5 to cross a bridge. I can only imagine how much it would cost an 18 wheeler to cross.

This is also a perfect example of why I am against privatization of toll roads. I think state governments should operate them and only charge an equal amount of what it will cost to pay / take care of the road. Toll roads should not be money makers for a business.

I would avoid it if I was a commuter in the area too.  Classic INDOT: SR 312 now randomly disappears just before US 41, the part inside the city limits of Hammond was turned over a few years ago.  They might as well decommission it all, or at least until it hits US 20. 

[US 41]

I would avoid it if I was a commuter in the area too.  Classic INDOT: SR 312 now randomly disappears just before US 41, the part inside the city limits of Hammond was turned over a few years ago.  They might as well decommission it all, or at least until it hits US 20.

   Why am I not all surprised?  I feel really bad for anyone that has to drive through Indiana on our state highway network. Really anything possible to mess it up they have done. They have even messed it up in places I thought were safe from them destroying, like US 52 in Lafayette.
   I wish INDOT would at least leave up the old signs and just get rid of the directional signs and put "OLD" in its place. Example: Instead of West Indiana 26 it would read Old Indiana 26.

[Joe The Dragon]

news on SR 912: http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/cline-avenue-bridge-rebuild-looking-good-copeland-says/article_3a8623a4-f7e8-561a-a533-9fa3ee09fdbb.html

I'm not familiar with the toll roads in the area, but isn't $2.50 pretty high just for one bridge?

And that's if you use EZPASS or I-PASS. If you don't have either one of those it will be over $5 to cross it. I think that is pretty high.

That's not worth it, I don't understand why INDOT just doesn't seem to care enough about this road to do it themselves and make it toll free like before, wasn't this a decently traveled highway?

I believe it did receive quite a bit of traffic. I think taking SR 312 to US 41 would make more sense than paying anywhere from $2.50 to $5 to cross a bridge. I can only imagine how much it would cost an 18 wheeler to cross.

This is also a perfect example of why I am against privatization of toll roads. I think state governments should operate them and only charge an equal amount of what it will cost to pay / take care of the road. Toll roads should not be money makers for a business.

At least they are not billing Ipass users that transaction fee

[peterj920]

news on SR 912: http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/cline-avenue-bridge-rebuild-looking-good-copeland-says/article_3a8623a4-f7e8-561a-a533-9fa3ee09fdbb.html

I'm not familiar with the toll roads in the area, but isn't $2.50 pretty high just for one bridge?

And that's if you use EZPASS or I-PASS. If you don't have either one of those it will be over $5 to cross it. I think that is pretty high.

Kind of sad when it's cheaper for a cash customer to cross the Mackinac Bridge ($4) than the new Cline Ave Bridge.  The maintenance costs on that bridge are way higher than they will be on the Cline Ave Bridge.  The only people I see needing to use the new bridge are compulsive gamblers that need quick access to the casinos and people that may be in a hurry to reach the harbor.  There are plenty of other alternatives so it will be interesting to see how many people want to pay the high price to cross the new bridge, whenever they start building it. 

[mukade]

The only people I see needing to use the new bridge are compulsive gamblers that need quick access to the casinos and people that may be in a hurry to reach the harbor.  There are plenty of other alternatives so it will be interesting to see how many people want to pay the high price to cross the new bridge, whenever they start building it.

Yes, there are alternatives, and that is why INDOT could not justify rebuilding this bridge. When Cline Avenue was extended in the 70s and 80s, there were tens of thousands of steel mill and refinery workers in close proximity so there needed to be a better highway there. With so many less workers today, it just is not needed.

[peterj920]

The only people I see needing to use the new bridge are compulsive gamblers that need quick access to the casinos and people that may be in a hurry to reach the harbor.  There are plenty of other alternatives so it will be interesting to see how many people want to pay the high price to cross the new bridge, whenever they start building it.

Yes, there are alternatives, and that is why INDOT could not justify rebuilding this bridge. When Cline Avenue was extended in the 70s and 80s, there were tens of thousands of steel mill and refinery workers in close proximity so there needed to be a better highway there. With so many less workers today, it just is not needed.

It doesn't seem like INDOT tried very hard to try and get the bridge fixed.  MNDOT received a lot of federal money to replace I-35W and WISDOT received federal money the Leo Frigo Bridge in Green Bay on an emergency basis.  They're both interstates, but I do notice that the FWHA gives priority on federal highway dollars to fixing bridges.  The area is also economically depressed and federal funds like to go to those areas also.  If there's a will, there's a way and INDOT could have received a lot of aid in rebuilding the bridge but chose not to.  I think it would have been a worthwhile investment because it helps the area out.  Even if the industries leave, the area can always be redeveloped with the proximity to the lake. 

[silverback1065]

The only people I see needing to use the new bridge are compulsive gamblers that need quick access to the casinos and people that may be in a hurry to reach the harbor.  There are plenty of other alternatives so it will be interesting to see how many people want to pay the high price to cross the new bridge, whenever they start building it.

Yes, there are alternatives, and that is why INDOT could not justify rebuilding this bridge. When Cline Avenue was extended in the 70s and 80s, there were tens of thousands of steel mill and refinery workers in close proximity so there needed to be a better highway there. With so many less workers today, it just is not needed.

It doesn't seem like INDOT tried very hard to try and get the bridge fixed.  MNDOT received a lot of federal money to replace I-35W and WISDOT received federal money the Leo Frigo Bridge in Green Bay on an emergency basis.  They're both interstates, but I do notice that the FWHA gives priority on federal highway dollars to fixing bridges.  The area is also economically depressed and federal funds like to go to those areas also.  If there's a will, there's a way and INDOT could have received a lot of aid in rebuilding the bridge but chose not to.  I think it would have been a worthwhile investment because it helps the area out.  Even if the industries leave, the area can always be redeveloped with the proximity to the lake.

I feel like the LaPorte district of INDOT is the worst in the state.  The NW part of the state always seems to get ignored infrastructurewise, if this were I-X90/80/94 it would have been fixed immediately, regardless of the traffic. 

[silverback1065]

Completely unrelated to what was just said:
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2015/09/18/indot-probes-crumbling-road-mystery/72399450/

INDOT has asphalt issues.

[silverback1065]

Something should be done to the SR 267/I-65 Interchange

[tdindy88]

Didn't INDOT rebuild the exit there a few years ago and add an additional ramp to a nearby street. You can't fault them them for Whitestown wanting to build more stuff there.