Indiana Notes

[silverback1065]

Didn't INDOT rebuild the exit there a few years ago and add an additional ramp to a nearby street. You can't fault them them for Whitestown wanting to build more stuff there.

Actually I should said Whitestown needs to fix the approach to the interchange.  It makes no sense at all for it to still be the way it is, Albert S. White Dr. should be the continuous movement, having to make a left turn at the signal there is bullshit, and worse when Amazon is busy.  Yes it's still rural, but amazon traffic makes it an issue.  Realign the intersection to make Albert S White the continuous movement, cul-de-sac or move Perry Worth further north.  It also makes no sense for that road to be a 4 lane high speed blvd, then cross Fishback Creek and essentially turn into a low speed subdivision street.  Also INDOT's sign is wrong, minor issue but it's Albert S. White Drive not blvd.

Just south Whitestown Pkwy is a disaster during rush hour, I don't think it's INDOT's fault, it's Whitestown's.  I wish Zionsville approved the cooper rd 865/US 52 interchange, but for some reason Zionsville is scared to turn into a city and wants to preserve the rural nature of the area.  I hope this area doesn't turn into a traffic hazard like Fishers/Noblesville in a few yrs. Whitestown and Zionsville appear to hate each other. 

[silverback1065]

I hear that an interchange is being looked at for us 20 and SR 2.

[tdindy88]

Any designs for this, I've been looking for anything on this. I'm assuming this is near Rolling Prairie?

[silverback1065]

No I only know about it because a friend at indot mentioned it, it must be in the early stages of design. Looking at the satellite view it looks like it could be a diamond since it looks like indot owns the row for one. It may involve roundabouts too. I wonder why doesn't indot just swap the routes there. I remember him saying he thinks a lot of the safety issues has to do with the left turns for thru traffic to follow 20 or 2.

[US 41]

No I only know about it because a friend at indot mentioned it, it must be in the early stages of design. Looking at the satellite view it looks like it could be a diamond since it looks like indot owns the row for one. It may involve roundabouts too. I wonder why doesn't indot just swap the routes there. I remember him saying he thinks a lot of the safety issues has to do with the left turns for thru traffic to follow 20 or 2.

Yeah it looks like a diamond is the most likely interchange. SR 2 and US 20 is basically northern Indiana's version of US 41 and SR 63 in western Indiana. It makes no sense not to have the US Highway follow the best surface route. All it does it make things more confusing. In both situations at the minimum the state route should be consigned as an Alternate US Highway.

[NWI_Irish96]

No I only know about it because a friend at indot mentioned it, it must be in the early stages of design. Looking at the satellite view it looks like it could be a diamond since it looks like indot owns the row for one. It may involve roundabouts too. I wonder why doesn't indot just swap the routes there. I remember him saying he thinks a lot of the safety issues has to do with the left turns for thru traffic to follow 20 or 2.

I've thought for a long time that US 20 and IN 2 should flip-flop east of their intersection.  My guess as to why they haven't done it is because US 20 is the route of the historic Michigan Road.

[silverback1065]

Seems like it would make more sense since SR 2 is a divided highway, don't think 20 is. I thought us 31 was Michigan road up there.

[ysuindy]

This site shows the historic Michigan Road going West from South Bend to Michigan City

http://historicmichiganroad.org/directions.html

[NWI_Irish96]

Seems like it would make more sense since SR 2 is a divided highway, don't think 20 is. I thought us 31 was Michigan road up there.

Old US 31/Michigan Street carries Michigan Road into downtown South Bend.  Then it runs along Old 20/20 from South Bend to Michigan City.

[silverback1065]

http://www.wthr.com/story/30223355/indot-takes-to-social-media-to-defend-road-record

What do you guys think of this? Is indot right? I'd say what indot is saying is mostly true.

[US 41]

http://www.wthr.com/story/30223355/indot-takes-to-social-media-to-defend-road-record

What do you guys think of this? Is indot right? I'd say what indot is saying is mostly true.

I'd say this is mostly true as well. The state highways (and bridges) overall are very well maintained. If people want to complain about state highways they need to drive some of the rural county roads. Pot holes everywhere and where there are bridges that are easily over 80 years old. Those are the bridges I'd be most concerned about.

My biggest INDOT Complaints:
1) Smooth transitions - You know what I'm talking about. New blacktop to old blacktop, blacktop to bridges. There are some very rough transitions in the state.
2) Decommissioning Highways - They seem to want you to drive way out of the way to get from Point A to Point B. They've successfully created a mess in Lafayette. The US 52 reroute was plainly stupid.
3) Manholes where you're supposed to drive. - Sort of goes with smooth transitions or maybe just poor engineering.
4) Control Cities - IMO Terre Haute should be the control city on I-70 west of Indy. It used to be (see link).   https://goo.gl/maps/oSk2rgXXWyr

[silverback1065]

http://www.wthr.com/story/30223355/indot-takes-to-social-media-to-defend-road-record

What do you guys think of this? Is indot right? I'd say what indot is saying is mostly true.

I'd say this is mostly true as well. The state highways (and bridges) overall are very well maintained. If people want to complain about state highways they need to drive some of the rural county roads. Pot holes everywhere and where there are bridges that are easily over 80 years old. Those are the bridges I'd be most concerned about.

My biggest INDOT Complaints:
1) Smooth transitions - You know what I'm talking about. New blacktop to old blacktop, blacktop to bridges. There are some very rough transitions in the state.
2) Decommissioning Highways - They seem to want you to drive way out of the way to get from Point A to Point B. They've successfully created a mess in Lafayette. The US 52 reroute was plainly stupid.
3) Manholes where you're supposed to drive. - Sort of goes with smooth transitions or maybe just poor engineering.
4) Control Cities - IMO Terre Haute should be the control city on I-70 west of Indy. It used to be (see link).   https://goo.gl/maps/oSk2rgXXWyr

I-70s control cities make no sense going east either, it changes from Dayton to Columbus randomly. It should be simply Dayton since it's closer. Or both on the same sign.

[tdindy88]

Terre Haute should be a secondary control city at best, the same with Richmond to the east. Using St. Louis as a control city for I-70 west of Indy is consistant with INDOT's practices. They use larger cities for control cities along their interstates. I-65 as Chicago, Indy and Louisville, I-70 has St. Louis, Indy and Dayton (mostly,) and there's also Peoria and Cincinnati and Fort Wayne, it's consistent. Some states use smaller communities for control cities but Indiana isn't one of them.

That said, they should just finish off the Columbus on the control cities and be done with them. Changing the cities seems to go along with when they replace their highway signs. If it's button copy it's probably Columbus, if not then it's probably Dayton, seeing the signs slowly transition to the non-button copy kind we'll see more Dayton, though there is one unusual exception with the reconstructed South Split interchange where a new sign as Columbus up near the Washington Street exit.

[silverback1065]

Why is exit 79b signed as meridian street? It doesn't even take you to meridian St, it takes you to Madison ave. It used to say Mccarty St (why did they change it?) which is just as accurate as saying Madison ave. But meridian St? Not even close! Meridian St is 2 blocks west. I guess it's getting too technical but this exit doesn't even intersect meridian St in anyway it feeds directly into Madison avenue and Mccarty St.

Are there any other exits like this?

[tdindy88]

Well, the roadway that comes off of the exit does become Meridian St once you reach South Street. The roads in that area are a little screwy as it is, but I'm sure you knew that. What is Meridian St turns into Illinois St, while the "Meridian St" part turns off onto a small road that connects to Madison Ave via Henry St, and from that point it becomes Meridian St to the north. For what it's worth, Madison Ave should begin at the point where Pennsylvania and Delaware break off right underneath I-70. There's too many weird configurations of streets and an insistence on keeping the street pattern what it is with the street names. At least the signage coming off of the highway does reflect that the road goes "to" Meridian. Perhaps the signs on I-70 should do the same.

[silverback1065]

Well, the roadway that comes off of the exit does become Meridian St once you reach South Street. The roads in that area are a little screwy as it is, but I'm sure you knew that. What is Meridian St turns into Illinois St, while the "Meridian St" part turns off onto a small road that connects to Madison Ave via Henry St, and from that point it becomes Meridian St to the north. For what it's worth, Madison Ave should begin at the point where Pennsylvania and Delaware break off right underneath I-70. There's too many weird configurations of streets and an insistence on keeping the street pattern what it is with the street names. At least the signage coming off of the highway does reflect that the road goes "to" Meridian. Perhaps the signs on I-70 should do the same.

Was the building of 70 the reason why these roads make no sense in this area? 

[tdindy88]

Probably, but I also think the building of the Madison Avenue expressway, specifically so that it would tie into Pennsylvania and Delaware also had a part, in effectively breaking off Madison into two separate sections.

[trafficsignal]

Why is exit 79b signed as meridian street? It doesn't even take you to meridian St, it takes you to Madison ave. It used to say Mccarty St (why did they change it?) which is just as accurate as saying Madison ave. But meridian St? Not even close! Meridian St is 2 blocks west. I guess it's getting too technical but this exit doesn't even intersect meridian St in anyway it feeds directly into Madison avenue and Mccarty St.

Are there any other exits like this?

They changed it before the super bowl, the exit takes you (eventually) to Meridian, and they presumed people knew all the action was focused on Meridian St. and wanted the signage to direct them that way (even for longterm tourism guidance, Meridian St is much more helpful than Madison Ave or McCarty).

[ysuindy]

I received the following e-mail / news release today from INDOT regarding I-69 in Hamilton and Madison Counties

INDIANAPOLIS (Oct. 14, 2015) — The Indiana Finance Authority Board today made a preliminary selection of an $85 million Milestone Contractors L.P. proposal to widen and rehabilitate 15 miles of Interstate 69 in Hamilton and Madison counties as part of the state's Major Moves 2020 program. Public hearings are scheduled in November to collect public comment on the selected proposal.

Two public hearings will be held, with the first taking place at 6 p.m. Thursday, Nov. 5, in the Miami Room at the Anderson Public Library, 111 E. 12th St. in Anderson. The second hearing will begin at 6 p.m. on Thursday, Nov. 12 in the Council Chambers at Noblesville City Hall, 16 S. 10th St. in Noblesville.

Milestone Contractors of Columbus and designer United Consulting Engineers Inc. propose to add a travel lane in each direction between State Road 37 (Exit 205) and State Road 38 (Exit 219), and add a southbound lane between the 116th Street entrance ramp and the future 106th Street exit ramp. In addition, the project includes reconfiguring the Campus Parkway interchange (Exit 210) into a diverging-diamond design to improve traffic flow, widening the Campus Parkway bridge over I-69, and replacing the Brooks School Road bridge deck over I-69.

[tdindy88]

First I've heard of the widening taking place all the way out to Exit 219. Last I checked they were only doing the first part to Exit 214. Not a bad thing though.

[mobilene]

I've thought for a long time that US 20 and IN 2 should flip-flop east of their intersection.  My guess as to why they haven't done it is because US 20 is the route of the historic Michigan Road.

I'm Vice President of the Historic Michigan Road Association, and I can state for the record that we don't care whether the Michigan Road is SR 2 or US 20 or a local road.

[mrsman]

Terre Haute should be a secondary control city at best, the same with Richmond to the east. Using St. Louis as a control city for I-70 west of Indy is consistant with INDOT's practices. They use larger cities for control cities along their interstates. I-65 as Chicago, Indy and Louisville, I-70 has St. Louis, Indy and Dayton (mostly,) and there's also Peoria and Cincinnati and Fort Wayne, it's consistent. Some states use smaller communities for control cities but Indiana isn't one of them.

That said, they should just finish off the Columbus on the control cities and be done with them. Changing the cities seems to go along with when they replace their highway signs. If it's button copy it's probably Columbus, if not then it's probably Dayton, seeing the signs slowly transition to the non-button copy kind we'll see more Dayton, though there is one unusual exception with the reconstructed South Split interchange where a new sign as Columbus up near the Washington Street exit.

IMO Indiana (and many other midwestern states) are the model for control city usage.  Big well known cities are used on 2dis and loops that most people have heard of.  No usage of small towns and no favorites for in-state cities.

[mrsman]

Well, the roadway that comes off of the exit does become Meridian St once you reach South Street. The roads in that area are a little screwy as it is, but I'm sure you knew that. What is Meridian St turns into Illinois St, while the "Meridian St" part turns off onto a small road that connects to Madison Ave via Henry St, and from that point it becomes Meridian St to the north. For what it's worth, Madison Ave should begin at the point where Pennsylvania and Delaware break off right underneath I-70. There's too many weird configurations of streets and an insistence on keeping the street pattern what it is with the street names. At least the signage coming off of the highway does reflect that the road goes "to" Meridian. Perhaps the signs on I-70 should do the same.

Was the building of 70 the reason why these roads make no sense in this area?

Atlanta has similar confusion in its Downtown with regard to Spring Street.  This has been alleviated somewhat by renaming part of Spring Street in honor of Ted Turner.

If there is much confusion caused by Indy's street pattern, perhaps some street renamings are in order here too.

Penn leads to Madison, leading to the Madison Expy.  OK. 

The portion of Madison leading from Exit 79B to North Meridian should probably be renamed "Meridian Street Extension" or perhaps after a local personality (Reggie Miller Avenue).  Signs should be erected guiding traffic to connect between both parts of Meridian along McCarty street.

Meridian Street between Russell and Henry is a very small street and should be renamed to a new name or perhaps to Charles Street to avoid confusion.

[billtm]

Why does the Salem Bypass not intersect with IN-160?

[silverback1065]

Why does the Salem Bypass not intersect with IN-160?

I have no idea, it makes SR 160 end at a city street too. Like SR 61 does in Vincennes. I also have no idea why they didn't make it go north of SR 60, the highway routings around there are all messed up.