Indiana Notes

[Great Lakes Roads]

Well, this topic is very interesting...

Indianapolis is trying to sue Carmel for building roundabouts along 96th Street, which is the border between the two counties (Marion and Hamilton)...

Article:
http://fox59.com/2017/06/22/carmel-sued-by-city-of-indianapolis-over-roundabouts/

[silverback1065]

This story really angers me, the counsel woman from Indy should consider worrying about the conditions of the roads in her district.  Indy is paying a whopping $0.00 for this project.  I hope Brainard moves them into Carmel territory.  I also don't believe her argument that they aren't needed, she's clearly never been in the area.  If there isn't congestion, why is she basically saying there is with her statement about stopping to see what's in the area?  Same bullshit they used to try to stop SR 37 in Fishers and Noblesville, it lost there too.  She claims Carmel never told the businesses about the project, Carmel basically is saying she's lying.  I think she's lying, especially since R/W acquisition would require the notification of the project.  As someone who works in her district, it would be nice for her to actually care about it. 

[theline]

A public meeting is scheduled for tonight at Oregon Davis Junior-Senior High School in Starke County (5 p.m. Central Time), discussing conversion of US 30 to a freeway between I-69 in Ft. Wayne to SR 49 in Valparaiso: http://wsbt.com/news/local/your-chance-to-weigh-in-on-us-30-project. The story doesn't state who is sponsoring the meeting or if INDOT reps will attend.

I doubt that it would go full freeway in the foreseeable future, but improvements are sorely needed. There is a long history of really nasty accidents along that route.

[silverback1065]

A public meeting is scheduled for tonight at Oregon Davis Junior-Senior High School in Starke County (5 p.m. Central Time), discussing conversion of US 30 to a freeway between I-69 in Ft. Wayne to SR 49 in Valparaiso: http://wsbt.com/news/local/your-chance-to-weigh-in-on-us-30-project. The story doesn't state who is sponsoring the meeting or if INDOT reps will attend.

I doubt that it would go full freeway in the foreseeable future, but improvements are sorely needed. There is a long history of really nasty accidents along that route.

wonderful idea, except it should go from 65 to 69 not 49 to 69

[The Ghostbuster]

Does anyone know how much this conversion will cost? Or how many right-of-way impacts and relocations might be needed to implement this plan?

[nwi_navigator_1181]

A public meeting is scheduled for tonight at Oregon Davis Junior-Senior High School in Starke County (5 p.m. Central Time), discussing conversion of US 30 to a freeway between I-69 in Ft. Wayne to SR 49 in Valparaiso: http://wsbt.com/news/local/your-chance-to-weigh-in-on-us-30-project. The story doesn't state who is sponsoring the meeting or if INDOT reps will attend.

I doubt that it would go full freeway in the foreseeable future, but improvements are sorely needed. There is a long history of really nasty accidents along that route.

wonderful idea, except it should go from 65 to 69 not 49 to 69

That will never happen. The section from I-65 to Indiana 49 is far too developed. They don't even have the room to convert 30 into a freeway with frontage roads and Texas turnarounds - which I think would be a good idea if they had more ROW.

[NWI_Irish96]

A public meeting is scheduled for tonight at Oregon Davis Junior-Senior High School in Starke County (5 p.m. Central Time), discussing conversion of US 30 to a freeway between I-69 in Ft. Wayne to SR 49 in Valparaiso: http://wsbt.com/news/local/your-chance-to-weigh-in-on-us-30-project. The story doesn't state who is sponsoring the meeting or if INDOT reps will attend.

I doubt that it would go full freeway in the foreseeable future, but improvements are sorely needed. There is a long history of really nasty accidents along that route.

wonderful idea, except it should go from 65 to 69 not 49 to 69

That will never happen. The section from I-65 to Indiana 49 is far too developed. They don't even have the room to convert 30 into a freeway with frontage roads and Texas turnarounds - which I think would be a good idea if they had more ROW.

Maybe they could at least do everything except Warsaw.  Warsaw would be the really expensive section.  The rest shouldn't be too bad.

[theline]

My wife and I are thinking that safety could be improved on a bit of a budget with the addition of overpasses at key locations and perhaps some J-turns, like the ones that are in the works for the most hazardous remaining intersections on US 31. Like I said above, the chance of a full freeway belongs in the fantasy section.

Edited to add that converting the SR 49 to I-65 section to freeway are really a pipe-dream. Like silverback said, it's way too developed. Warsaw, on the other hand, I think is doable as a freeway in the long range.

[Revive 755]

wonderful idea, except it should go from 65 to 69 not 49 to 69

That will never happen. The section from I-65 to Indiana 49 is far too developed. They don't even have the room to convert 30 into a freeway with frontage roads and Texas turnarounds - which I think would be a good idea if they had more ROW.

They managed to convert US 31 to a freeway through Carmel north of Keystone - how was that ROW-wise compared to US 30 through Merrillville?  Cost-wise though I agree it is very unlikely since INDOT seems to shaft northwest Indiana (with the Cline Avenue bridge replacement as an example).

[silverback1065]

wonderful idea, except it should go from 65 to 69 not 49 to 69

That will never happen. The section from I-65 to Indiana 49 is far too developed. They don't even have the room to convert 30 into a freeway with frontage roads and Texas turnarounds - which I think would be a good idea if they had more ROW.

They managed to convert US 31 to a freeway through Carmel north of Keystone - how was that ROW-wise compared to US 30 through Merrillville?  Cost-wise though I agree it is very unlikely since INDOT seems to shaft northwest Indiana (with the Cline Avenue bridge replacement as an example).

INDOT doesn't think NW IN exists 

[Finrod]

Here's another url about this-- looks like it was a local group that organized this, including the mayors of the cities along the route:

http://wsbt.com/news/local/local-leaders-propose-limited-access-freeway-for-us-30

[Finrod]

And here's the follow-up story:

http://wsbt.com/news/local/debate-continues-on-proposal-to-turn-us-30-into-limited-access-freeway

[silverback1065]

this sounds a lot like us 31.  also, they could do it to 65, ever heard of immanent domain?

[Life in Paradise]

Would the increased volume on US 30 (forecasting going from 30k to 80k traffic) be from the toll roads in Indiana and Ohio?  If you are going through the area and want to shunpike, US 30 would then be a very limited access all the way to I-71, and you could darn well find a 4 lane most of the way through Canton to hook up with I-76 south of Youngstown.  That could cause another bankruptcy for the toll road company.

[silverback1065]

Carmel now officially has 105 roundabouts.  They will never get down to 1 signal though, due to US 421.

[NWI_Irish96]

Would the increased volume on US 30 (forecasting going from 30k to 80k traffic) be from the toll roads in Indiana and Ohio?  If you are going through the area and want to shunpike, US 30 would then be a very limited access all the way to I-71, and you could darn well find a 4 lane most of the way through Canton to hook up with I-76 south of Youngstown.  That could cause another bankruptcy for the toll road company.

Gary, IN to Cleveland, OH via toll roads:
317 miles, about 5 hours, $16.90 in tolls, $32.42 in gas

Gary, IN to Cleveland, OH via I-65, US 30, I-71:
366 miles, about 6.25 hours (if entire length of US 30 is upgraded to freeway, otherwise it's longer), $0.00 in tolls, $37.43 in gas

So if someone wants to take an extra 75 minutes to get from Gary to Cleveland just to spend $11.89 less, I hope they realize they are essentially earning $9.51 per hour for their time.

[silverback1065]

With all those lights on 30 I'll just pay for the tolls

Nexus 6P

[NWI_Irish96]

With all those lights on 30 I'll just pay for the tolls

Nexus 6P

This was using the scenario that 30 gets converted to limited access and how that might impact the toll road.  I was pointing out that even without lights, it's a lot of time to save a little bit of money.

That said, 30 already has seen a big increase in truck traffic, possibly due to increased tolls, and I see reports of bad accidents on 30 almost daily now.  I do think traffic has gotten to the point where something needs to be done for safety.  If I still lived up in that part of the state, I'd be avoiding 30 at all costs. 

[Life in Paradise]

Back in the 80's, one of my fraternity buddies had such a rise against toll roads, that he routed a group to avoid the Kentucky turnpikes (then tolled), and also the Florida Turnpike to go to Fort Lauderdale.  Needless to say, his car buddies decided that when they went back, they were going to pay the tolls.

[pianocello]

wonderful idea, except it should go from 65 to 69 not 49 to 69

That will never happen. The section from I-65 to Indiana 49 is far too developed. They don't even have the room to convert 30 into a freeway with frontage roads and Texas turnarounds - which I think would be a good idea if they had more ROW.

They managed to convert US 31 to a freeway through Carmel north of Keystone - how was that ROW-wise compared to US 30 through Merrillville?  Cost-wise though I agree it is very unlikely since INDOT seems to shaft northwest Indiana (with the Cline Avenue bridge replacement as an example).

I think it's comparable as far as ROW width goes, but US 30's developed section in Merrillville is much longer than US 31 in Carmel used to be. Plus, there's the full interchange with I-65 to consider too. And yeah, INDOT typically seems to forget about NWI.

Personally, I'd love to see a US 30 freeway from Fort Wayne to Valparaiso, but it wouldn't be feasible to take it any further west of there. As much as I want it to happen, though, I'd be lucky to see it by the time I retire.

Carmel now officially has 105 roundabouts.  They will never get down to 1 signal though, due to US 421.

Last I heard (April of this year), the mayor's plan is to eliminate all of the stoplights on city-maintained (i.e. non-INDOT) intersections. Have they gotten there yet?

[silverback1065]

wonderful idea, except it should go from 65 to 69 not 49 to 69

That will never happen. The section from I-65 to Indiana 49 is far too developed. They don't even have the room to convert 30 into a freeway with frontage roads and Texas turnarounds - which I think would be a good idea if they had more ROW.

They managed to convert US 31 to a freeway through Carmel north of Keystone - how was that ROW-wise compared to US 30 through Merrillville?  Cost-wise though I agree it is very unlikely since INDOT seems to shaft northwest Indiana (with the Cline Avenue bridge replacement as an example).

I think it's comparable as far as ROW width goes, but US 30's developed section in Merrillville is much longer than US 31 in Carmel used to be. Plus, there's the full interchange with I-65 to consider too. And yeah, INDOT typically seems to forget about NWI.

Personally, I'd love to see a US 30 freeway from Fort Wayne to Valparaiso, but it wouldn't be feasible to take it any further west of there. As much as I want it to happen, though, I'd be lucky to see it by the time I retire.

Carmel now officially has 105 roundabouts.  They will never get down to 1 signal though, due to US 421.

Last I heard (April of this year), the mayor's plan is to eliminate all of the stoplights on city-maintained (i.e. non-INDOT) intersections. Have they gotten there yet?

they're close, i don't know the exact count, but it's not a lot

[amroad17]

I could see a freeway built along US 30 to Valpariso and then upgrading IN 49 to the Toll Road.  IN 49 is already an expressway/freeway hybrid.  To make this idea into a freeway would involve a reconstruction of the Toll Road interchange, grade-separating three intersections along this stretch, shoulder upgrades, and a reconstruction of the US 30/IN 49 interchange so that the SB 49/EB 30 and WB 30/NB 49 are the through movements.  On US 30, Warsaw would definitely have to be bypassed north of the city and the airport and Columbia City may even have to be bypassed--probably south of the city.

It is doable--only if the funds are there.  And no, there doesn't have to be an I-shield attached to this.  This freeway could be built without worrying about "Interstate Standards".  Just as long as it is safer to drive with less "stoppage" time along the way.

[silverback1065]

what is so hard about warsaw and columbia city?

[nwi_navigator_1181]

what is so hard about warsaw and columbia city?

Much like Merrillville and points west, US 30 cuts through highly developed areas of those two cities. It is unfeasible to build a freeway on the existing terrain with tight ROWs.

They would have to build a whole new set of roadway around those cities in order to make a nonstop Valparaiso to Fort Wayne expressway. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a bad thing to have breaks in the freeway in those two areas (much like US 41/SR 63 from Kentland to Evansville).

(I am aware that US 41/SR 63 isn't a full blown Expressway between those two points; I just cite it because of the sparsity of traffic lights between those two points, with exceptions of hub points like Terre Haute.)

[silverback1065]

Drove 31 to Michigan, and noticed a few things:

there is a lone I-31 shield on a mile marker sign, southbound just north of SR 32
they need to mill and resurface the southbend bypass, they also need to remile mark it for us 31 mileage. 
the end of the new bypass up to the old cloverleaf interchange is substandard, still using a median instead of a jersey barrier. 
driving it in it's current form is great. adding the jturns at SR 10 and 110 will make it better, the current signals aren't that bad.