Indiana Notes

[mvak36]

Getting rid of the Interstates between the splits would be insanity though--there would no longer be a backup route to take if one were blocked or extremely slow.  How much can 465 handle?

That is a horrible idea. I hope that INDOT doesn't even consider it. There is no way the whole loop would be able to handle that much extra traffic.

[silverback1065]

There's a very low chance of them caring, it's currently almost done being designed.  This is just the urbanists saying: "but bruh, mass transit"
Because clearly everyone uses Indygo.  I personally supported the red line, but I know no one is going to ride it.  It's really going to fuck up traffic flow along college and meridian.  I'll have to reread the article, but I don't think the guy wants it removed, he wants it buried, with a blvd on top, like i-93.  Maybe he can pay for it? 

[captkirk_4]

Well, the signs don't EXACTLY say not to go to downtown, they just warn you of the projected travel time of going through the city versus going around. And most of the time there is really no difference in either route, only during rush hour is there usually a difference that warrants going around the city and that is only if there is nothing slowing down traffic on 465.

if you enter the city on 65 south, they do have a sign saying "to i-70 east dayton follow i-865" and it says it again but with 465 at 865's end.  that's the only place i've seen that.

When I came west bound from Ohio on 70 I noticed there was not any good through flow onto 74 west. I had to go into the downtown, then way south and up. 865 should have been extended straight west from it's terminus at 65 into 74 so that movement could go around the north beltway. I also tried IN 32 from Crawfordsville to Lebanon and made good time once, but another time got stuck behind a senile old coot doing 50 with about 12 cars lined up unable to pass on the winding two lane road. Don't know why 74 comes to a dead end at 465 instead of going into the downtown like the others? Must have been an add on expressway?

[silverback1065]

Well, the signs don't EXACTLY say not to go to downtown, they just warn you of the projected travel time of going through the city versus going around. And most of the time there is really no difference in either route, only during rush hour is there usually a difference that warrants going around the city and that is only if there is nothing slowing down traffic on 465.

if you enter the city on 65 south, they do have a sign saying "to i-70 east dayton follow i-865" and it says it again but with 465 at 865's end.  that's the only place i've seen that.

When I came west bound from Ohio on 70 I noticed there was not any good through flow onto 74 west. I had to go into the downtown, then way south and up. 865 should have been extended straight west from it's terminus at 65 into 74 so that movement could go around the north beltway. I also tried IN 32 from Crawfordsville to Lebanon and made good time once, but another time got stuck behind a senile old coot doing 50 with about 12 cars lined up unable to pass on the winding two lane road. Don't know why 74 comes to a dead end at 465 instead of going into the downtown like the others? Must have been an add on expressway?

74 was never planned to go downtown and i have no idea why.  it would be interesting to see in come in and shoot straight west and tie into 65 at 38th st

[Henry]

Getting rid of the Interstates between the splits would be insanity though--there would no longer be a backup route to take if one were blocked or extremely slow.  How much can 465 handle? 

Well, you have I-74 running along the south side of the loop (was there ever a proposal to route that through town instead?), and the future I-69 along the east side, so that statement is not completely true. Sure, you would go out of the way on the loop, but at least there's an alternative around the area.

[theline]

74 was never planned to go downtown and i have no idea why.  it would be interesting to see in come in and shoot straight west and tie into 65 at 38th st

Checking historic aerials, it appears that there was hardly any development along the part of 38th Street between 465 and 65 back in the days when the interstates were under construction in Indy. It would have been logical to build 74 along that route then. Too bad that they didn't do it.

[silverback1065]

74 was never planned to go downtown and i have no idea why.  it would be interesting to see in come in and shoot straight west and tie into 65 at 38th st

Checking historic aerials, it appears that there was hardly any development along the part of 38th Street between 465 and 65 back in the days when the interstates were under construction in Indy. It would have been logical to build 74 along that route then. Too bad that they didn't do it.

you should look at the 37/69 corridor around castleton, it's crazy how much has changed!

[mgk920]

74 was never planned to go downtown and i have no idea why.  it would be interesting to see in come in and shoot straight west and tie into 65 at 38th st

Checking historic aerials, it appears that there was hardly any development along the part of 38th Street between 465 and 65 back in the days when the interstates were under construction in Indy. It would have been logical to build 74 along that route then. Too bad that they didn't do it.

you should look at the 37/69 corridor around castleton, it's crazy how much has changed!

I was always under the impression that I-74 was planned to go through the city, with how the original cloverleaf interchanges at I-465 were laid out feeding directly into major surface streets 'in' from I-465 and how the downtown area has that neat-looking incomplete freeway rectangle.  Have I-74 connect into it from the east at the south I-65/70 split and from the west at the I-65 curve by 11th/California.

Mike

[Life in Paradise]

74 was never planned to go downtown and i have no idea why.  it would be interesting to see in come in and shoot straight west and tie into 65 at 38th st

Checking historic aerials, it appears that there was hardly any development along the part of 38th Street between 465 and 65 back in the days when the interstates were under construction in Indy. It would have been logical to build 74 along that route then. Too bad that they didn't do it.

you should look at the 37/69 corridor around castleton, it's crazy how much has changed!

I was always under the impression that I-74 was planned to go through the city, with how the original cloverleaf interchanges at I-465 were laid out feeding directly into major surface streets 'in' from I-465 and how the downtown area has that neat-looking incomplete freeway rectangle.  Have I-74 connect into it from the east at the south I-65/70 split and from the west at the I-65 curve by 11th/California.

Mike

Although it may seem as if, the only connection that I know of that was proposed to the downtown originally was the arm that would have connected now I-69 to the NE corner of the downtown interstates.  I believe it was being tagged as I-169.  Just thinkin', if they would put a few interchanges or overpasses on Binford like at 71st and 75th, they might help traffic to move on that road and alleviate the backlog of people getting off on I-69 to I-465.  Just a bit of dreaming.  No one up there wants it, and you are looking a tens of millions of dollars, perhaps over a hundred million just to get within striking distance of Keystone.

[silverback1065]

74 was never planned to go downtown and i have no idea why.  it would be interesting to see in come in and shoot straight west and tie into 65 at 38th st

Checking historic aerials, it appears that there was hardly any development along the part of 38th Street between 465 and 65 back in the days when the interstates were under construction in Indy. It would have been logical to build 74 along that route then. Too bad that they didn't do it.

you should look at the 37/69 corridor around castleton, it's crazy how much has changed!

I was always under the impression that I-74 was planned to go through the city, with how the original cloverleaf interchanges at I-465 were laid out feeding directly into major surface streets 'in' from I-465 and how the downtown area has that neat-looking incomplete freeway rectangle.  Have I-74 connect into it from the east at the south I-65/70 split and from the west at the I-65 curve by 11th/California.

Mike

Although it may seem as if, the only connection that I know of that was proposed to the downtown originally was the arm that would have connected now I-69 to the NE corner of the downtown interstates.  I believe it was being tagged as I-169.  Just thinkin', if they would put a few interchanges or overpasses on Binford like at 71st and 75th, they might help traffic to move on that road and alleviate the backlog of people getting off on I-69 to I-465.  Just a bit of dreaming.  No one up there wants it, and you are looking a tens of millions of dollars, perhaps over a hundred million just to get within striking distance of Keystone.

i started out as 69 all the way downtown, feds refused to pay.  then they floated 165, no money.  and yes interchanges on binford are a fantasy, indy can't even fill potholes, let alone actually do something good to alleviate traffic. 

[theline]

74 was never planned to go downtown and i have no idea why.  it would be interesting to see in come in and shoot straight west and tie into 65 at 38th st

Checking historic aerials, it appears that there was hardly any development along the part of 38th Street between 465 and 65 back in the days when the interstates were under construction in Indy. It would have been logical to build 74 along that route then. Too bad that they didn't do it.

you should look at the 37/69 corridor around castleton, it's crazy how much has changed!

I don't actually have to check historic aerials to picture the changes in the Castleton area. I grew up in Muncie and we frequently visited or passed through that area for shopping, sports events, etc. over the years. Even after moving to South Bend 40+ years ago, visits to the old stomping grounds have been frequent.

Back to 74, I've never seen any historical document indicating any intention to build it inside 465. Everything shows it stopping at 465.

[NWI_Irish96]

74 was never planned to go downtown and i have no idea why.  it would be interesting to see in come in and shoot straight west and tie into 65 at 38th st

Checking historic aerials, it appears that there was hardly any development along the part of 38th Street between 465 and 65 back in the days when the interstates were under construction in Indy. It would have been logical to build 74 along that route then. Too bad that they didn't do it.

you should look at the 37/69 corridor around castleton, it's crazy how much has changed!

I was always under the impression that I-74 was planned to go through the city, with how the original cloverleaf interchanges at I-465 were laid out feeding directly into major surface streets 'in' from I-465 and how the downtown area has that neat-looking incomplete freeway rectangle.  Have I-74 connect into it from the east at the south I-65/70 split and from the west at the I-65 curve by 11th/California.

Mike

Although it may seem as if, the only connection that I know of that was proposed to the downtown originally was the arm that would have connected now I-69 to the NE corner of the downtown interstates.  I believe it was being tagged as I-169.  Just thinkin', if they would put a few interchanges or overpasses on Binford like at 71st and 75th, they might help traffic to move on that road and alleviate the backlog of people getting off on I-69 to I-465.  Just a bit of dreaming.  No one up there wants it, and you are looking a tens of millions of dollars, perhaps over a hundred million just to get within striking distance of Keystone.

i started out as 69 all the way downtown, feds refused to pay.  then they floated 165, no money.  and yes interchanges on binford are a fantasy, indy can't even fill potholes, let alone actually do something good to alleviate traffic. 

Hamilton County has grown to the point where some kind of rail line running downtown would make a lot of sense.  It's really the only way you're going to alleviate traffic at this point.  You could have a line running along Rangeline/Westfield starting at 146th with stops at Main, 116th, and 96th, and a line running along 37/69 starting at 141st with stops at 126th, 116th and 96th.

[NWI_Irish96]

https://www.southbendtribune.com/news/local/st-joseph-county-plans-takeover-of-indiana-near-notre-dame/article_9ad61dc4-52f9-53a0-8732-cdbbee18b9d5.html

What is unclear in this article is that it says that the county wants to take over the "whole 6.5-mile stretch of Indiana 933 from the state, which runs north from Angela Boulevard to State Line Road."  It's only 4.5 miles from Angela Blvd to State Line Road, so I don't know if that's a typo, or of the 6.5 miles is supposed to be including some other parts of 933 (perhaps the part between 331 and Ash Rd?)

[Finrod]

I imagine that I-74 was never planned to go inside I-465 because coming in from the west, I-74 would have had to go right by the Indianapolis 500.

[silverback1065]

74 was never planned to go downtown and i have no idea why.  it would be interesting to see in come in and shoot straight west and tie into 65 at 38th st

Checking historic aerials, it appears that there was hardly any development along the part of 38th Street between 465 and 65 back in the days when the interstates were under construction in Indy. It would have been logical to build 74 along that route then. Too bad that they didn't do it.

you should look at the 37/69 corridor around castleton, it's crazy how much has changed!

I was always under the impression that I-74 was planned to go through the city, with how the original cloverleaf interchanges at I-465 were laid out feeding directly into major surface streets 'in' from I-465 and how the downtown area has that neat-looking incomplete freeway rectangle.  Have I-74 connect into it from the east at the south I-65/70 split and from the west at the I-65 curve by 11th/California.

Mike

Although it may seem as if, the only connection that I know of that was proposed to the downtown originally was the arm that would have connected now I-69 to the NE corner of the downtown interstates.  I believe it was being tagged as I-169.  Just thinkin', if they would put a few interchanges or overpasses on Binford like at 71st and 75th, they might help traffic to move on that road and alleviate the backlog of people getting off on I-69 to I-465.  Just a bit of dreaming.  No one up there wants it, and you are looking a tens of millions of dollars, perhaps over a hundred million just to get within striking distance of Keystone.

i started out as 69 all the way downtown, feds refused to pay.  then they floated 165, no money.  and yes interchanges on binford are a fantasy, indy can't even fill potholes, let alone actually do something good to alleviate traffic. 

Hamilton County has grown to the point where some kind of rail line running downtown would make a lot of sense.  It's really the only way you're going to alleviate traffic at this point.  You could have a line running along Rangeline/Westfield starting at 146th with stops at Main, 116th, and 96th, and a line running along 37/69 starting at 141st with stops at 126th, 116th and 96th.

you know INDOT is desperate to get rid of 931 and 933, the only thing is, why not the whole thing?  SB should take over its portion. just kill the whole thing.

[mgk920]

I imagine that I-74 was never planned to go inside I-465 because coming in from the west, I-74 would have had to go right by the Indianapolis 500.

I was going on the assumption that it would loop a bit south of the track and then head approximately due eastward to I-65.

Mike

[NWI_Irish96]

you know INDOT is desperate to get rid of 931 and 933, the only thing is, why not the whole thing?  SB should take over its portion. just kill the whole thing.

I don't think South Bend and Mishawaka want to take over the maintenance costs of 933.  I imagine that 933 will continue to exist from Angela Blvd in South Bend to 331 in Mishawaka for the time being. 

[silverback1065]

here is their genius idea for 65/70, hopefully indot wins this
http://www.urbanindy.com/2018/01/27/indot-proposes-a-devastating-blow-to-downtown-neighborhoods/

here is indots idea
http://www.urbanindy.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/1_2018-01-08_North-Split_North-Side-Analysis.pdf

[theline]

https://www.southbendtribune.com/news/local/st-joseph-county-plans-takeover-of-indiana-near-notre-dame/article_9ad61dc4-52f9-53a0-8732-cdbbee18b9d5.html

What is unclear in this article is that it says that the county wants to take over the "whole 6.5-mile stretch of Indiana 933 from the state, which runs north from Angela Boulevard to State Line Road."  It's only 4.5 miles from Angela Blvd to State Line Road, so I don't know if that's a typo, or of the 6.5 miles is supposed to be including some other parts of 933 (perhaps the part between 331 and Ash Rd?)

6.5 miles is the approximate combined mileage of both sections of 933 in St. Joseph County, excluding portions inside the city limits of South Bend and Mishawaka. I suppose that is why the writer uses that figure. That includes the section from Angela to State Line Road and the section from Mishawaka's east city limit to Ash Road. Mishawaka's city limit is not at 331, but about a half mile east of Bittersweet Road. INDOT is certainly interested in divesting the whole thing.

My understanding is that the the county can negotiate the takeover of portions outside the cities, including the towns of Roseland and Osceola, but INDOT must negotiate separately with the cities for their portions.

[nwi_navigator_1181]

When driving along recently resurfaced portions of Indiana 49, I-94, and I-65, it appears the striping between lanes has been grooved into the pavement, possibly as a means of keeping the paint from fading quickly due to weather and driving.

Can anyone confirm this? Also, is this becoming a practice in other parts of the state?

[silverback1065]

When driving along recently resurfaced portions of Indiana 49, I-94, and I-65, it appears the striping between lanes has been grooved into the pavement, possibly as a means of keeping the paint from fading quickly due to weather and driving.

Can anyone confirm this? Also, is this becoming a practice in other parts of the state?

Whenever thermoplastic is used as a pavement marking, it's now required to groove the pavement. Helps shield it from snow plows and other things that will fade the markings. It's not required for paint though.

[nwi_navigator_1181]

When driving along recently resurfaced portions of Indiana 49, I-94, and I-65, it appears the striping between lanes has been grooved into the pavement, possibly as a means of keeping the paint from fading quickly due to weather and driving.

Can anyone confirm this? Also, is this becoming a practice in other parts of the state?

Whenever thermoplastic is used as a pavement marking, it's now required to groove the pavement. Helps shield it from snow plows and other things that will fade the markings. It's not required for paint though.

So that isn't even paint, but a more weather resistant material? That's a great idea, along with grooving it into the pavement.

[silverback1065]

When driving along recently resurfaced portions of Indiana 49, I-94, and I-65, it appears the striping between lanes has been grooved into the pavement, possibly as a means of keeping the paint from fading quickly due to weather and driving.

Can anyone confirm this? Also, is this becoming a practice in other parts of the state?

Whenever thermoplastic is used as a pavement marking, it's now required to groove the pavement. Helps shield it from snow plows and other things that will fade the markings. It's not required for paint though.

So that isn't even paint, but a more weather resistant material? That's a great idea, along with grooving it into the pavement.

yes, on new asphalt roadways, thermoplastic is the standard (unless it's rural, or the road owner requests paint)  it's molten plastic, and little reflective beads are mixed in to add reflectivity.  it's my favorite material for markings.  on concrete, they typically use preformed plastic or epoxy, the preformed plastic i believe is more like tape, it's not molten.  paint lasts about 3-5 yrs, depending on traffic, and location of the road according to INDOT, i forget thermo's length, but it's significantly more.

[silverback1065]

it's fun watching them place pavement markings down   

[silverback1065]

well this is depressing: https://www.indystar.com/story/news/2018/02/15/indys-streets-so-bad-making-them-fair-would-take-10-times-current-budget/324044002/