Indiana Notes

[JREwing78]

Drove US 231 from Crawfordsville to Lafayette on Thursday afternoon and it was completely over capacity for a two lane highway. Both directions were non-stop columns of cars, not a single gap ever occurred in which one could do a safe pass. I felt sorry for some car waiting in a rural driveway down in a creek bed where the winding road and rising terrain had no more that 200 feet visibility in either direction. They were waiting for how long for any gap in the traffic to make a desperate turn onto the road which may have 60mph traffic coming around the trees at any second. Lafayette has absolutely terrible road access to westbound I-74 for freight and passenger vehicles. Hoosier Heartland Highway is sort of a road to nowhere, it dumps you right in Lafayette with no easy access through the city on to a further southwest movement. It's almost easier to continue on US24 from Logansport all the way to I-57. Not a well thought out regional highway plan.

I agree. No thought whatsoever given to accommodating traffic not originating or ending their trips in Lafayette. 4-laning US-231 north of Crawfordsville looks simple enough, but it's the movement eastward around the south side of Lafayette to I-65 that's a slow slog. A 4-lane bypass from I-65 around Wyandotte westward to US-231 would solve that issue, and provide smoother access from the SE to the Purdue campus.

[silverback1065]

lafayette has terrible east west roads to begin with.  it is indot's dream to have 231 be a divided highway through its entire length in indiana, at least up to 65.

[theline]

BTW, does anybody have a count on how many times this intersection has undergone major reconstructions since the original construction? I've been driving through the intersection on a semi-regular basis for about 50 years. Non living in the city, I'm not too familiar with the history, but my experience leads me to believe it's been reworked several times.

Going by aerial photography from the City of Indianapolis is appears that the interchange has not changed its configuration at all since first being constructed. There was a project about ten years ago that changed the lane configuration along I-69 just north of the I-465 interchange which allowed for slightly better merging going north and configured the southbound approach so that there were two lanes going onto WB 465 as well as SB 465. As others might mention the reconstruction of the interchange with the local-express set up was original proposed when they rebuilt I-465 from US 31 past Keystone and toward Allisonville but scrapped for budget reasons or whatever. So they are simply doing something they had promised to do ten years ago now. But other than the aforementioned lane changes along I-69 there has been little change to the interchange itself, this would be the first radical change in design ever.

Thanks for checking that out. It's funny how the mind works. I could have sworn that the intersection had been reworked more than once. I suppose that I just had a vague idea that the roads had changed because of the overall buildup of that area over the years. There's been plenty of change in the surrounding buildings and roads over the last 50 years.

[csw]

Anyone have an idea what the construction on I-74 between the SR 32 and SR 39 exits is? Signs have gone up in both directions indicating lane restrictions starting April 2nd.

[silverback1065]

there's nothing i hate more than an "armchair engineer" thinking they know exactly how things should be done.  The roadway was designed with standards 50 yrs ago, and they spent years researching the proper routing, and had reasons for the final route.  Their idea to remove the interstates and replace it with a boulevard with roundabouts, or just bury it.  I would support burying it, but that won't happen due to the high cost.  The boulevard idea is awful, it would be handed over to Indianapolis, who will proceed to do nothing to it for 50 years and it will turn into the other shitty roads they have in marion county, it would be a congested mess with tons of traffic lights. 

https://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/columnists/suzette-hackney/2018/03/22/hackney-its-time-rethink-downtown-indy-interstates/445221002/

The never ending rivalry between engineers and architects/urban planners continues...

[nwi_navigator_1181]

As Silverback noted upthread, there was a public meeting regarding the progress of the I-65 Expansion Project in Northwest Indiana. Some liner notes, from the Post-Tribune:

• INDOT says work will resume as soon as the weather lets up. They're still shooting for completion before the next holiday travel season (late October). A large stretch of the future northbound shoulder between US 231 and US 30 has already been carved out.
• Existing lanes between US 231 and US 30 will be resurfaced as part of the work (the biggest reason why this section was left untouched last construction season).
• Later this spring, northbound traffic will be rerouted to the new southbound Kankakee River bridge so crews can complete the new northbound span.
• The bridges over 109th Avenue and Beaver Dam Ditch (just north of the 109th Avenue interchange) will be resurfaced, along with the 137th and 153rd Avenue bridges over I-65.
• Residents have raised concerns about potential flooding at the base of the I-65 and US 231 interchange. INDOT says they're unaware of the situation and this issue isn't part of the scope of work.
• Finally, while this is outside project limits, INDOT is aware of the dangerous potholes lining I-65 between Indiana 2 and Indiana 10. Full-blown resurfacing is scheduled for 2019, but INDOT has allocated $1 million for repairs that will last until then. Another concern being addressed is the faded striping in the construction zones, which will be addressed once work picks back up.

A question for the group: I've noticed that newly widened sections of I-65 throughout the state have been designed with the standard metal guardrails in the grass instead of the concrete medians I'm more accustomed to. Which method is safer? I'm curious; it doesn't worry me in any form.

[Crash_It]

They need to do something about that deteriorated pavement on US20 through all of LaPorte county.

[theline]

They need to do something about that deteriorated pavement on US20 through all of LaPorte county.

You ask, and INDOT delivers, at least in this case. According to the Next Level Indiana program, most of US 20 in LaPorte County is scheduled to get major attention this year. Map and table of projects: https://entapps.indot.in.gov/dotmaps/NextLevelMap/pdf/LaPorte%20County.pdf

[Crash_It]

They need to do something about that deteriorated pavement on US20 through all of LaPorte county.

You ask, and INDOT delivers, at least in this case. According to the Next Level Indiana program, most of US 20 in LaPorte County is scheduled to get major attention this year. Map and table of projects: https://entapps.indot.in.gov/dotmaps/NextLevelMap/pdf/LaPorte%20County.pdf

Unfortunately, it excludes the portion through Michigan City. At least they got the worst portion of it due for work. What do I care anyway? The reason I would drive there is no longer in my life in that manner which is quite unfortunate but at least she will have some fresh pavement to drive on whenever she returns there. It was grueling driving through there when we were together last fall though.

[JREwing78]

They need to do something about that deteriorated pavement on US20 through all of LaPorte county.

You ask, and INDOT delivers, at least in this case. According to the Next Level Indiana program, most of US 20 in LaPorte County is scheduled to get major attention this year. Map and table of projects: https://entapps.indot.in.gov/dotmaps/NextLevelMap/pdf/LaPorte%20County.pdf

I kinda wish they had done that before the work on I-94 last year. I spent an awful lot of time avoiding I-94, and most of those alternates were not in good shape.

[theline]

They need to do something about that deteriorated pavement on US20 through all of LaPorte county.

You ask, and INDOT delivers, at least in this case. According to the Next Level Indiana program, most of US 20 in LaPorte County is scheduled to get major attention this year. Map and table of projects: https://entapps.indot.in.gov/dotmaps/NextLevelMap/pdf/LaPorte%20County.pdf

I kinda wish they had done that before the work on I-94 last year. I spent an awful lot of time avoiding I-94, and most of those alternates were not in good shape.

Me too. With work underway on both I-94 and the ITR, I spent a lot of time on US 20, dodging potholes and hoping my fillings would stay in my mouth. At least traffic kept moving on 20, unlike on the freeways. I'm glad it's going to get some attention.

[silverback1065]

horrible sign choice by terre haute for the to us 40 sign, sign maker must have been drunk: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4675163,-87.4046008,3a,16.4y,20.8h,89.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKgksfszZqxKTlRpgarJimw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[NWI_Irish96]

horrible sign choice by terre haute for the to us 40 sign, sign maker must have been drunk: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4675163,-87.4046008,3a,16.4y,20.8h,89.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKgksfszZqxKTlRpgarJimw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Could have been worse--the arrow could have been pointing the opposite direction as the one way sign.

[csw]

That's a not-so-scenic Bayhway.

[silverback1065]

Indiana REALLY needs business routes

[billtm]

Indiana REALLY needs business routes

AMEN! When INDOT decides to put a micro gap into a route, they should give the city money to sign it as a city route. Also, it would be super nice if cities would sign bypassed sections of routes as business routes because that would aid a lot in navigation imho.

[Life in Paradise]

Indiana REALLY needs business routes

AMEN! When INDOT decides to put a micro gap into a route, they should give the city money to sign it as a city route. Also, it would be super nice if cities would sign bypassed sections of routes as business routes because that would aid a lot in navigation imho.

I would totally agree.  I've considered sending a proposal to  my state rep that the state should consider authorizing county highway routes that can utilize the old route number (perhaps in a blue sign like some states, or the round versions of WV county roads), and are subject to restrictions that the counties place on roads.  In my area, a county/city accepted return of a state highway to local control, since they could restrict truck traffic from city limits, and they could not with it being a state highway.  I would also mandate that the state would pay for the signs for the roadway (it's the least they could do, since municipalities like Indianapolis can't afford potholes the way it is).

[silverback1065]

random piece of info I have just learned:  INDOT is no longer going to place RPMs (those reflectors you see in the pavement)  on bridges. 

[NWI_Irish96]

Indiana REALLY needs business routes

AMEN! When INDOT decides to put a micro gap into a route, they should give the city money to sign it as a city route. Also, it would be super nice if cities would sign bypassed sections of routes as business routes because that would aid a lot in navigation imho.

I would totally agree.  I've considered sending a proposal to  my state rep that the state should consider authorizing county highway routes that can utilize the old route number (perhaps in a blue sign like some states, or the round versions of WV county roads), and are subject to restrictions that the counties place on roads.  In my area, a county/city accepted return of a state highway to local control, since they could restrict truck traffic from city limits, and they could not with it being a state highway.  I would also mandate that the state would pay for the signs for the roadway (it's the least they could do, since municipalities like Indianapolis can't afford potholes the way it is).

The only problem I see with signing the decommissioned state routes as county routes is that most of them are in cities, and I can see confusion where motorists call county governments instead of city governments to complain about the road conditions due to the county road shield.

[Life in Paradise]

Indiana REALLY needs business routes

AMEN! When INDOT decides to put a micro gap into a route, they should give the city money to sign it as a city route. Also, it would be super nice if cities would sign bypassed sections of routes as business routes because that would aid a lot in navigation imho.

I would totally agree.  I've considered sending a proposal to  my state rep that the state should consider authorizing county highway routes that can utilize the old route number (perhaps in a blue sign like some states, or the round versions of WV county roads), and are subject to restrictions that the counties place on roads.  In my area, a county/city accepted return of a state highway to local control, since they could restrict truck traffic from city limits, and they could not with it being a state highway.  I would also mandate that the state would pay for the signs for the roadway (it's the least they could do, since municipalities like Indianapolis can't afford potholes the way it is).

The only problem I see with signing the decommissioned state routes as county routes is that most of them are in cities, and I can see confusion where motorists call county governments instead of city governments to complain about the road conditions due to the county road shield.

My idea would include the word "County Road" or "County Highway".  The idea of using the decommissioned routes is because there are several cities where INDOT has removed the road from the city limits, and then picks it up on the other side of the city.  If you are a traveler, you suddenly are not sure where you are going.  This would make is somewhat easier.

[mvak36]

It looks like they started the widening on the Columbus to Seymour segment of I-65 last week: http://www.wdrb.com/story/37950941/indiana-officials-break-ground-on-143-million-expansion-of-i-65

Looks like it was funded by the 10 cent gas tax increase last year. https://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/indianapolis/construction-season-is-officially-underway-in-indiana

[bmeiser]

It looks like they started the widening on the Columbus to Seymour segment of I-65 last week: http://www.wdrb.com/story/37950941/indiana-officials-break-ground-on-143-million-expansion-of-i-65

Looks like it was funded by the 10 cent gas tax increase last year. https://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/indianapolis/construction-season-is-officially-underway-in-indiana

So what parts of I-65 will still be two lanes after this and all current projects are complete?  I know northern Indiana better than southern so please correct me if I'm wrong on this list.

Radially out from Indy:

• US 52 - IN 38 - 27 Mi
• IN 25 - IN 2 - 65 Mi
• IN 44 - IN 58 - 26 Mi
• US 50 - Blue Lick Rd? - 34 Mi

I wonder which segment (or part of a segment) will be done next?  Many bridges between IN 25 and IN 2 are already wide enough for 3 lanes and the Kankakee River bridge is being expanded so I'm sure parts of that will be done in the not so distant future.  Although, to me, it makes sense to continue from IN-44 down to IN 58.  Much shorter segment and pretty heavily traveled.  What do you guys think?

[tdindy88]

I would think that the SR 44 to SR 58 stretch should be next, I kind of wonder why it wasn't first. Columbus (and the furthest southern exit at that) to Seymour just doesn't rank too high immediately to be widened. I'm guessing this may be because the other stretches of highway in Southern Indiana had been recently repaved and INDOT didn't want to screw that up.

As for next, I think US 52 to SR 38 would be logical to connect the two six lane segments of the highway. Out of curiosity, is the stretch of I-65 around Lafayette now complete?

[mvak36]

It looks like they started the widening on the Columbus to Seymour segment of I-65 last week: http://www.wdrb.com/story/37950941/indiana-officials-break-ground-on-143-million-expansion-of-i-65

Looks like it was funded by the 10 cent gas tax increase last year. https://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/indianapolis/construction-season-is-officially-underway-in-indiana

So what parts of I-65 will still be two lanes after this and all current projects are complete?  I know northern Indiana better than southern so please correct me if I'm wrong on this list.

Radially out from Indy:

• US 52 - IN 38 - 27 Mi
• IN 25 - IN 2 - 65 Mi
• IN 44 - IN 58 - 26 Mi
• US 50 - Blue Lick Rd? - 34 Mi

I wonder which segment (or part of a segment) will be done next?  Many bridges between IN 25 and IN 2 are already wide enough for 3 lanes and the Kankakee River bridge is being expanded so I'm sure parts of that will be done in the not so distant future.  Although, to me, it makes sense to continue from IN-44 down to IN 58.  Much shorter segment and pretty heavily traveled.  What do you guys think?

I think you are right with the list above. As far as what section is next, I have no idea. I suppose if this tolling idea passes, they will do all of the remaining sections in quick succession.

[Great Lakes Roads]

It looks like they started the widening on the Columbus to Seymour segment of I-65 last week: http://www.wdrb.com/story/37950941/indiana-officials-break-ground-on-143-million-expansion-of-i-65

Looks like it was funded by the 10 cent gas tax increase last year. https://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/indianapolis/construction-season-is-officially-underway-in-indiana

So what parts of I-65 will still be two lanes after this and all current projects are complete?  I know northern Indiana better than southern so please correct me if I'm wrong on this list.

Radially out from Indy:

• US 52 - IN 38 - 27 Mi
• IN 25 - IN 2 - 65 Mi
• IN 44 - IN 58 - 26 Mi
• US 50 - Blue Lick Rd? - 34 Mi

I wonder which segment (or part of a segment) will be done next?  Many bridges between IN 25 and IN 2 are already wide enough for 3 lanes and the Kankakee River bridge is being expanded so I'm sure parts of that will be done in the not so distant future.  Although, to me, it makes sense to continue from IN-44 down to IN 58.  Much shorter segment and pretty heavily traveled.  What do you guys think?

I think you are right with the list above. As far as what section is next, I have no idea. I suppose if this tolling idea passes, they will do all of the remaining sections in quick succession.

And I also know that some bridges along I-65 are planned to be expanded and the decks replaced in the future (over Indiana SR 43 and the Wabash River for example)... some of the bridges along that stretch will be replaced with new, wider bridges (hopefully)...

Also, I noticed that INDOT are expanding their ITS along I-65 in Boone, Clinton, Jasper, Tippecanoe, and White counties...