Indiana Notes

[edwaleni]

There's virtually no way it can connect to future I-69 near Smith Valley Road as the highway currently is. That is a lot of land in between the two spaces and most certainly is it not reserved ROW at the moment. The city of Indianapolis is currently planning out an extension of Ameriplex Parkway (Ronald Reagan Parkway's name inside Indianapolis) to the southeast to meet up Southport Road at Mann Road. From there one can follow Southport across the White River to a future interchange with I-69. Right now it looks as if the planned corridor would be four-lane to Mann Road but the stretch of Southport is currently only two lanes and would need a new bridge across the river to make it four-lanes to I-69. In any case a new four-lane bridge across the river would have to be built if the roadway were to ever connect with I-69 in any way.

I think you mean this?

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DPW/RebuildIndy/Projects/Documents/Ameriplex%20Extension%20Public%20Meeting%20Handouts%205-11-17.pdf

I just checked and INDOT is going to take the Ronald Reagan Parkway all the way to I-65 in 2020. 

All the way to either Whitestown Parkway, or to the IN-267 exit with I-65 where the Amazon Center is.

Maybe this is where I got my story wrong, he might have said I-65, not I-69.  Still, I didn't realize INDOT was going to take it that far.

http://www.brownsburg.org/egov/documents/1370357017_461242.pdf

In the I-69 Tier 2 study, they were identifying which E-W routes in the regional plans would/should be tied into the the I-69 traffic study.

Essentially they identified 3 routes from Smith Valley over to Mooresville that either need to be built that don't exist, widen Southport Road to 4 lanes and a host of others.

https://www.in.gov/indot/projects/i69/files/Draft_Purpose_and_Need.pdf

Interesting is that they all tied in with Mann Road, which is where the Ameriplex Parkway will be extended to.

I would surmise that an additional Ameriplex Parkway extension (or whatever name it takes) will pop up not long or during construction of I-69 south of Indianapolis to meet these requirements.

Not only would this give I-69 way better access from the west of the White River, but get travelers to the airport from the south without having to tie up I-465 (ie: Martinsville resident reaching the airport)

[2trailertrucker]

There's virtually no way it can connect to future I-69 near Smith Valley Road as the highway currently is. That is a lot of land in between the two spaces and most certainly is it not reserved ROW at the moment. The city of Indianapolis is currently planning out an extension of Ameriplex Parkway (Ronald Reagan Parkway's name inside Indianapolis) to the southeast to meet up Southport Road at Mann Road. From there one can follow Southport across the White River to a future interchange with I-69. Right now it looks as if the planned corridor would be four-lane to Mann Road but the stretch of Southport is currently only two lanes and would need a new bridge across the river to make it four-lanes to I-69. In any case a new four-lane bridge across the river would have to be built if the roadway were to ever connect with I-69 in any way.

I think you mean this?

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DPW/RebuildIndy/Projects/Documents/Ameriplex%20Extension%20Public%20Meeting%20Handouts%205-11-17.pdf

I just checked and INDOT is going to take the Ronald Reagan Parkway all the way to I-65 in 2020. 

All the way to either Whitestown Parkway, or to the IN-267 exit with I-65 where the Amazon Center is.

Maybe this is where I got my story wrong, he might have said I-65, not I-69.  Still, I didn't realize INDOT was going to take it that far.

http://www.brownsburg.org/egov/documents/1370357017_461242.pdf

Years ago, I went to the public hearing on the then proposed RR. After seeing the plans, I told one of the state people there that if they demolish the low bridge in SR 267 in Fayette, they could have a straight through route to I-65 without needing to go on I-465. When I said that, the state person got a higher up to talk to me. I was hauling gas out of Clermint, and we couldn't get underneath the bridge. The gentleman took notes and thanked me.

The next year, the underpass was gone, replaced with an at-grade crossing.

[nwi_navigator_1181]

Pretty big news today that will affect a large portion of the state.

The Indiana Toll Road Concession Company (ITRCC) is giving the state $1 billion in exchange for allowing a one-time 35% rate increase for trucks on the Indiana Toll Road. The bulk of the money will be used to speed up construction of Interstate 69 from Martinsville to I-465, but the funds will also be used to work improvements along US Highways 20 and 30, as well as speed up efforts to convert US 31 to full interstate standards from Indianapolis to the Michigan State Line.

The windfall will also go to expand rural broadband internet access, expand the network of hike, bike, and ride trails, allow nonstop international flights to and from Indianapolis International Airport, and free up resources for mowing and trash pickups along the highways.

If approved, the rate hike will be implemented in October. Passenger cars and trucks will not be affected.

Source here: https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/lake-newsletter/state-to-receive-billion-in-exchange-for-allowing-higher-truck/article_640a7253-34cb-5bfe-a7fd-5b653ba4ef86.html

[mvak36]

Pretty big news today that will affect a large portion of the state.

The Indiana Toll Road Concession Company (ITRCC) is giving the state $1 billion in exchange for allowing a one-time 35% rate increase for trucks on the Indiana Toll Road. The bulk of the money will be used to speed up construction of Interstate 69 from Martinsville to I-465, but the funds will also be used to work improvements along US Highways 20 and 30, as well as speed up efforts to convert US 31 to full interstate standards from Indianapolis to the Michigan State Line.

The windfall will also go to expand rural broadband internet access, expand the network of hike, bike, and ride trails, allow nonstop international flights to and from Indianapolis International Airport, and free up resources for mowing and trash pickups along the highways.

If approved, the rate hike will be implemented in October. Passenger cars and trucks will not be affected.

Source here: https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/lake-newsletter/state-to-receive-billion-in-exchange-for-allowing-higher-truck/article_640a7253-34cb-5bfe-a7fd-5b653ba4ef86.html

I saw that too. This article (https://www.wfyi.org/news/articles/state-announces-1b-infrastructure-investment-moves-up-i-69-completion-date) says that they could finish I-69 section 6 by 2024.

EDIT: Here is the factsheet. https://www.in.gov/gov/files/NextLevel%20Connections%20facts%20sheet.pdf

[nwi_navigator_1181]

The fact sheet is quite revealing. Good that some of the money is going to help fund the double tracking of the main South Shore Line from Gary to Michigan City, as well as (a portion of) the South Shore Extension that has been bandied about in one form or another for at least a decade.

I also hope that the ITRCC uses some of the money to fix the section between Cline Avenue and I-65. There's no way a section that's been rebuilt seven years ago should look like it hasn't been touched in 20.

[Rothman]

Wonder if it is really kosher for toll revenue from a facility to be used for funding an entire state's capital program.

[ilpt4u]

Wonder if it is really kosher for toll revenue from a facility to be used for funding an entire state's capital program.

Um, PA is calling...

[Rothman]

Wonder if it is really kosher for toll revenue from a facility to be used for funding an entire state's capital program.

Um, PA is calling...

Not sure what you're saying.  Because PA infamously uses the Turnpike as a bank the practice is okay?

[ilpt4u]

Wonder if it is really kosher for toll revenue from a facility to be used for funding an entire state's capital program.

Um, PA is calling...

Not sure what you're saying.  Because PA infamously uses the Turnpike as a bank the practice is okay?

Not that the practice is OK, but clearly the states of IN and PA think it is. And could include the City of Chicago, leasing out the Skyway

Personally, I think I-69 from Indy to Evansville should have been the Indiana North-South, or possibly Southwest Toll Road, but that ship already sailed...Has not a decent amount of the I-69 project in Indiana been paid for via the Toll Road lease?

Maybe if an upgraded US 41 in Indiana between Chicago and Evansville can become a freeway (maybe I-41 making it further South?) that could be a Truck/Freight Route, Chicago and Points Northwest to Nashville and Points Southeast, and that a viable Indiana North-South Toll Road, similar to I-80/90 being a Truck/Freight Route for Chicago and Points Northwest and Toledo and Points East on the current Indiana East-West Toll Road

[Rothman]

Also makes me wonder how much the Toll Road is keeping of the expected revenue from the toll increase.  How much of the expected revenue is this $1 billion?

Also wondering if the lease really is working out.  People are paying more to drive on the Toll Road, the capital program in Indiana is becoming reliant one these one-time draws from the Toll Road (spending the bulk on special projects rather than general maintenance of the system) and the state route relinquishing program continues, passing burdens onto localities.  Would the traveling public been better served without the lease?

[mvak36]

So that factsheet said only 2 stoplights would remain on US31 between Indy and South Bend after the intersections listed in there are completed. Out of curiosity, where are those?

[bmeiser]

Not counting flashing yellows, I counted 3 last night:

• Division Rd. in Tipton County
• SR 218 in Miami County - North of Grissom
• W. 100N in Miami county - at the Gallahan Travel Plaza

[SEWIGuy]

Wonder if it is really kosher for toll revenue from a facility to be used for funding an entire state's capital program.

Um, PA is calling...

Not sure what you're saying.  Because PA infamously uses the Turnpike as a bank the practice is okay?

Sure.  They are both state agencies so I don't see a problem with it.

[Rothman]

Wonder if it is really kosher for toll revenue from a facility to be used for funding an entire state's capital program.

Um, PA is calling...

Not sure what you're saying.  Because PA infamously uses the Turnpike as a bank the practice is okay?

Sure.  They are both state agencies so I don't see a problem with it.

I do not believe public authorities are technically state agencies.  At least here in NY, public authorities certainly have more autonomy, despite sometimes having state officials on their boards.

[silverback1065]

I'm pretty sure INDOT has nothing to do with RR Pkwy, if they did, it would be SR 267

[J N Winkler]

Wonder if it is really kosher for toll revenue from a facility to be used for funding an entire state's capital program.

I am sure it is legal, but it does create a powerful rebuttal to the usual user-pays argument in favor of toll roads that is trotted out when a fuel tax increase is on the table.

Also wondering if the lease really is working out.  People are paying more to drive on the Toll Road, the capital program in Indiana is becoming reliant one these one-time draws from the Toll Road (spending the bulk on special projects rather than general maintenance of the system) and the state route relinquishing program continues, passing burdens onto localities.  Would the traveling public been better served without the lease?

The consensus appears to be that Cintra took a bath on the original 2003 lease, which helped scuttle similar privatization plans in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and New York, since there was an expectation that the private players would have wised up and not be willing to give any of those states as sweet a deal as Indiana got.

Using the Toll Road as a piggybank is perhaps more politically convenient in Indiana than it would be elsewhere because its location is so thoroughly specialized to serve out-of-state traffic.  The only metropolitan area of any importance it passes through is South Bend-Mishawaka-Elkhart and there are plenty of parallel free alternatives in the Chicago southeast suburbs, so it serves very little in-state traffic, while the toll-free alternatives for a Cleveland-Toledo-Chicago trunk itinerary involve at least 100 miles of out-of-the-way travel.

[ysuindy]

[/quot

Not counting flashing yellows, I counted 3 last night:

• Division Rd. in Tipton County
• SR 218 in Miami County - North of Grissom
• W. 100N in Miami county - at the Gallahan Travel Plaza

I recall there being discussions about an interchange at Division Road.

http://www.kokomotribune.com/news/at-a-crossroads-discussions-start-about-potential-division-road-interchange/article_f86345b4-e284-11e6-8a7f-8b4c6b5f0991.html

An interchange at the travel plaza would seem to be too close to the US 24 interchange.

[csw]

[/quot

Not counting flashing yellows, I counted 3 last night:

• Division Rd. in Tipton County
• SR 218 in Miami County - North of Grissom
• W. 100N in Miami county - at the Gallahan Travel Plaza

I recall there being discussions about an interchange at Division Road.

http://www.kokomotribune.com/news/at-a-crossroads-discussions-start-about-potential-division-road-interchange/article_f86345b4-e284-11e6-8a7f-8b4c6b5f0991.html

An interchange at the travel plaza would seem to be too close to the US 24 interchange.

I believe these are two different Divison Roads.

[silverback1065]

The division road in question is the one right after the rr tracks. They're building a bridge over those tracks soon btw

[Rothman]

Wonder if it is really kosher for toll revenue from a facility to be used for funding an entire state's capital program.

I am sure it is legal, but it does create a powerful rebuttal to the usual user-pays argument in favor of toll roads that is trotted out when a fuel tax increase is on the table.

Also wondering if the lease really is working out.  People are paying more to drive on the Toll Road, the capital program in Indiana is becoming reliant one these one-time draws from the Toll Road (spending the bulk on special projects rather than general maintenance of the system) and the state route relinquishing program continues, passing burdens onto localities.  Would the traveling public been better served without the lease?

The consensus appears to be that Cintra took a bath on the original 2003 lease, which helped scuttle similar privatization plans in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and New York, since there was an expectation that the private players would have wised up and not be willing to give any of those states as sweet a deal as Indiana got.

Using the Toll Road as a piggybank is perhaps more politically convenient in Indiana than it would be elsewhere because its location is so thoroughly specialized to serve out-of-state traffic.  The only metropolitan area of any importance it passes through is South Bend-Mishawaka-Elkhart and there are plenty of parallel free alternatives in the Chicago southeast suburbs, so it serves very little in-state traffic, while the toll-free alternatives for a Cleveland-Toledo-Chicago trunk itinerary involve at least 100 miles of out-of-the-way travel.

I agree with this assessment of Cintra's perspective, but I wonder about the public.  Travelers are paying more to travel the Indiana Toll Road.  Indiana lost a steadier stream of income from the Toll Road, since they are now dependent upon these one-time agreements with the private operator as outlined in the announcement and the money is targeted towards a host of special projects rather than just a boost to their capital program.  The fact Indiana blew through the first influx of funding from the Toll Road after the lease and then cried poverty is still disconcerting.

I suppose I am just wondering whether things are better or worse for Hoosiers since the lease.  I suspect for those unaffected by the special projects that things must be pretty volatile, especially as Indiana turns state routes over to localities.

[NWI_Irish96]

Pretty big news today that will affect a large portion of the state.

The Indiana Toll Road Concession Company (ITRCC) is giving the state $1 billion in exchange for allowing a one-time 35% rate increase for trucks on the Indiana Toll Road. The bulk of the money will be used to speed up construction of Interstate 69 from Martinsville to I-465, but the funds will also be used to work improvements along US Highways 20 and 30, as well as speed up efforts to convert US 31 to full interstate standards from Indianapolis to the Michigan State Line.

The windfall will also go to expand rural broadband internet access, expand the network of hike, bike, and ride trails, allow nonstop international flights to and from Indianapolis International Airport, and free up resources for mowing and trash pickups along the highways.

If approved, the rate hike will be implemented in October. Passenger cars and trucks will not be affected.

Source here: https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/lake-newsletter/state-to-receive-billion-in-exchange-for-allowing-higher-truck/article_640a7253-34cb-5bfe-a7fd-5b653ba4ef86.html

Really wish they would prioritize 6-laning the rest of I-65 and I-70 over converting the rest of US 31 to freeway.  Maybe go ahead and fix the railroad crossing/light at Division just north of Tipton but the rest can wait.

[SEWIGuy]

Wonder if it is really kosher for toll revenue from a facility to be used for funding an entire state's capital program.

Um, PA is calling...

Not sure what you're saying.  Because PA infamously uses the Turnpike as a bank the practice is okay?

Sure.  They are both state agencies so I don't see a problem with it.

I do not believe public authorities are technically state agencies.  At least here in NY, public authorities certainly have more autonomy, despite sometimes having state officials on their boards.

Well then they can sue them.  My guess is that this is all above board.

[thefro]

Pretty big news today that will affect a large portion of the state.

The Indiana Toll Road Concession Company (ITRCC) is giving the state $1 billion in exchange for allowing a one-time 35% rate increase for trucks on the Indiana Toll Road. The bulk of the money will be used to speed up construction of Interstate 69 from Martinsville to I-465, but the funds will also be used to work improvements along US Highways 20 and 30, as well as speed up efforts to convert US 31 to full interstate standards from Indianapolis to the Michigan State Line.

The windfall will also go to expand rural broadband internet access, expand the network of hike, bike, and ride trails, allow nonstop international flights to and from Indianapolis International Airport, and free up resources for mowing and trash pickups along the highways.

If approved, the rate hike will be implemented in October. Passenger cars and trucks will not be affected.

Source here: https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/lake-newsletter/state-to-receive-billion-in-exchange-for-allowing-higher-truck/article_640a7253-34cb-5bfe-a7fd-5b653ba4ef86.html

Really wish they would prioritize 6-laning the rest of I-65 and I-70 over converting the rest of US 31 to freeway.  Maybe go ahead and fix the railroad crossing/light at Division just north of Tipton but the rest can wait.

IIRC, I think they have gas tax money allocated for that.  It's going to be incredibly disruptive to traffic if they tried to do the whole I-65/I-70 project at once.  I-69 and upgrading US 31 are probably way further down the pike in terms of being close to shovel-ready.

[SSR_317]

Wonder if it is really kosher for toll revenue from a facility to be used for funding an entire state's capital program.

Um, PA is calling...

Not sure what you're saying.  Because PA infamously uses the Turnpike as a bank the practice is okay?

Not that the practice is OK, but clearly the states of IN and PA think it is. And could include the City of Chicago, leasing out the Skyway

Personally, I think I-69 from Indy to Evansville should have been the Indiana North-South, or possibly Southwest Toll Road, but that ship already sailed...Has not a decent amount of the I-69 project in Indiana been paid for via the Toll Road lease?

Maybe if an upgraded US 41 in Indiana between Chicago and Evansville can become a freeway (maybe I-41 making it further South?) that could be a Truck/Freight Route, Chicago and Points Northwest to Nashville and Points Southeast, and that a viable Indiana North-South Toll Road, similar to I-80/90 being a Truck/Freight Route for Chicago and Points Northwest and Toledo and Points East on the current Indiana East-West Toll Road

With all due respect, please keep toll roads over there in Illinois as many (I would argue MOST) Hoosiers despise them! Tolling the I-69 extension was a stupid idea from the beginning, and thankfully was quickly buried.

As for the State of Indiana using our one toll road (not counting the Ohio River bridges) as a piggy bank for projects throughout the state, you have to remember it is located so far north that few Hoosiers ever use it, outside of those in & between South Bend and Gary (granted, a lot of people, but not compared to the whole state). A majority of the heavy truck traffic on it is pass-through from & to other states. Thus our politicians have little incentive NOT to use revenue from that highway elsewhere. Is that "fair"? Perhaps not, but I could argue that the whole idea of tolling highways in the first place is patently unfair.

[hbelkins]

As for the State of Indiana using our one toll road (not counting the Ohio River bridges) as a piggy bank for projects throughout the state, you have to remember it is located so far north that few Hoosiers ever use it, outside of those in & between South Bend and Gary (granted, a lot of people, but not compared to the whole state). A majority of the heavy truck traffic on it is pass-through from & to other states. Thus our politicians have little incentive NOT to use revenue from that highway elsewhere. Is that "fair"? Perhaps not, but I could argue that the whole idea of tolling highways in the first place is patently unfair.

Heard in lunchtime discussion yesterday that Indiana had just extended the lease of the toll road and gotten a pretty good chunk of change out of the deal.