Indiana Notes

[Flint1979]

Someone was being stupid when they wrote that, there's not even a source cited. There's not even enough traffic to justify passing lanes (and there's a few Indiana two-lane highways that could use some of those.)

I was thinking something similar about US 421 not being needed north of Greensburg too. I suppose it's kept there because a large part of it is the Michigan Road or perhaps there's a real desire to have a U.S. highway that connects Lake Michigan with the Atlantic Ocean.

As for US 421, I'd reroute it onto I-65 from Indianapolis up to West Lafayette and then have it follow SR 43 north to Reynolds and then along its normal routing from there. Eliminate SR 43 (leaving just the Southern Indiana part) and restore SR 29 along Michigan Road from Indy to Logansport, as well as allowing SR 28 and 39 to follow their own route without a U.S. highway chaperone.

Since so much of 421 is the old Michigan Road, I always thought that it should have continued north on 29 instead of turning west, and following 29 to Logansport and then 25 to Rochester, and end at 31.

What would current US-421 between Frankfort and Michigan City become? That route following 29 to 25 and ending at 31 does make some sense. I don't see the need for 421 to go all the way to Michigan City.

Boyleston-Frankfort is already IN 28, Frankfort-Monticello is already IN 39, Monticello-Reynolds is already US 24, so all you need a number for Reynolds-Michigan City and that could just be an extension of IN 43.

I think the reason that it ends in Michigan City is so that there can be a direct route between Indy and Michigan City. But an extension of IN-43 up to Michigan City and eliminating all the concurrencies makes sense. It kind of reminds me of US-412 with all the concurrencies that route has.

Regarding US-421, I was traveling in North Carolina about 8 years ago and rode on it in North Carolina which made me look up exactly where the route goes since I'm thinking this route ends in Indiana and is a spur of US-21 and only meeting that route near Winston-Salem, NC why in the heck does it go to Indiana? I wonder if there was a desire to link Lake Michigan to the Atlantic Ocean I see someone else mentioned that too.

I don't think I'd use it for a through route though.

[NWI_Irish96]

Even disregarding the interstates, 421-29-35 is a faster route to MC compared to staying on 421. It seems that 421 is routed to give Frankfort and Delphi a US highway. There's no other apparent reason for 421 turning west at 28.

I also think 231 is routed the way it is to give Renssaelaer a US highway, as 52-41 is a faster route from Lafayette to Crown Point.

[Flint1979]

Even disregarding the interstates, 421-29-35 is a faster route to MC compared to staying on 421. It seems that 421 is routed to give Frankfort and Delphi a US highway. There's no other apparent reason for 421 turning west at 28.

I also think 231 is routed the way it is to give Renssaelaer a US highway, as 52-41 is a faster route from Lafayette to Crown Point.

Yeah if I was going Indy to MC, I think I'd take I-65 up to IN-43 then follow IN-43 into US-421. It's about 25 miles shorter than staying on I-65 and only about 5 minutes longer.

I guess it does give you the most direct route between MC and Indy for some of the route but not all of it. But to ditch I-65 all together then yeah 421-29-35 but it would take about 45 minutes longer for the same distance as taking 65-43-421.

[Finrod]

That section of US 421 from Reynolds to Michigan City?  Sure it's a shortcut if you're going up I-65 to Michigan, but you also get railroad crossings over every railroad that goes from the east coast to Chicago, and some of them (last time I went that way) are a bit rough.

[paulthemapguy]

Been reading the previous points about US421, and yeah, I could get on board with a plan to restore US421 north of Indy to state routes (29, 39, 43).  The route designations would be more straightforward for users imo.

[bmeiser]

I thought 65 was already widened up to SR 43? I haven't been up that way in awhile but I thought I heard that they had done that.

[NWI_Irish96]

I thought 65 was already widened up to SR 43? I haven't been up that way in awhile but I thought I heard that they had done that.

It's done up to IN 25, and the Wabash River bridge has been under construction for a while, but there has not been any work yet north of the bridge.

[bmeiser]

Ah, I must have been thinking of 25. Glad to see it creeping further north!

[paulthemapguy]

The Wabash River bridge might just be the southern limit of the new project.  The new widening project should overlap with the current northern extent of the 6-laned section so they can take care of lane shifting changes and other construction along the periphery of the new widening.

[silverback1065]

I wonder if the piece from 465 to 865 will be widened? i feel like that gap will go last.

[Flint1979]

Ah, I must have been thinking of 25. Glad to see it creeping further north!

Well it's only 3 miles between IN-25 and IN-43 considering IN-43 goes north and south and IN-25 goes on more of a diagonal.

[tdindy88]

Speaking of I-65 widening plans I was just looking at what INDOT was planning between SR 58 and SR 46. It's obvious they are kicking the can down the road on any bridge plans with SR 46 and the Driftwood River. Northbound I-65 has the left lane end before the off-ramp from 65 to 46. They could at the very least have the far right lane just exit off onto 46. Southbound I-65 appears to pick up its third lane from the on-ramp from 46 onto 65.

As for the Lafayette area, I would imagine that SR 43 to SR 2 will be the absolute last stretch to be widened to six lanes. Everything south of Indy needs it bad and finishing up from Lebanon to Lafayette probably makes good sense, plus the stretch in Indianapolis that is still four lanes. 

[I-55]

I wonder if the piece from 465 to 865 will be widened? i feel like that gap will go last.

Knowing INDOT that stretch will be four lanes for the foreseeable future. Similar to I-75 in Macon, its 6+ everywhere else in the state except between I-16 and I-475 (N).

leaning toward fictional but...

Traffic count would suggest I-865 ought to be widened with I-65 if that stretch goes to 6 lanes. Looking at AADT on the INDOT traffic counts, I-865 (30k AADT) handles more traffic than I-65 on that stretch (26k SB/22k NB). It would be far easier to widen I-865 (fewer bridges and ramps to deal with) and would allow I-865 to serve as a better relief route to 65 during bridge work. The interchange between 465 and 865 should have been modernized a long time ago (and I thought there were plans at one point).

I don't want to get too fictional so I'll end it there.

[Flint1979]

I wonder if the piece from 465 to 865 will be widened? i feel like that gap will go last.

Knowing INDOT that stretch will be four lanes for the foreseeable future. Similar to I-75 in Macon, its 6+ everywhere else in the state except between I-16 and I-475 (N).

leaning toward fictional but...

Traffic count would suggest I-865 ought to be widened with I-65 if that stretch goes to 6 lanes. Looking at AADT on the INDOT traffic counts, I-865 (30k AADT) handles more traffic than I-65 on that stretch (26k SB/22k NB). It would be far easier to widen I-865 (fewer bridges and ramps to deal with) and would allow I-865 to serve as a better relief route to 65 during bridge work. The interchange between 465 and 865 should have been modernized a long time ago (and I thought there were plans at one point).

I don't want to get too fictional so I'll end it there.

Thank God for I-475 being the through route in Macon instead of I-75.

[Crash_It]

I have noticed that INDOT has added two "add travel lanes" projects for I-65...

1. From Memphis, IN (Blue Lick Road) exit to SR 56 (Scottsburg) exit- estimated start in Q3 of 2023
2. From north of SR 25 exit to north of SR 43 exit in the Lafayette area- estimated start in Q2 of 2022

Slowly creeping towards getting it all done.

The Indy-Louisville stretch has needed extra travel lanes. I can't recall a time I've ever set cruise on the route because of the speed-up/slow-down nature of traffic. There are two scenarios I've come across:

The first scenario comes from the split truck speed limit (70/65) coupled with trucks who want to pass each other at the least opportune of times. What you get is a situation where the trucks form a rolling roadblock at 65 mph or less, and taking up to five minutes to pass, then when the left lane clears there's a long convoy of vehicles behind them that takes awhile to come back up to speed, if they can get to speed before the next rolling roadblock.

This happens in IL too and it's so annoying. Why in the hell do they feel the need to do this? If I were a state trooper, I would pull over and ticket every trucker that does this for impeding the normal and reasonable flow of traffic.

[SEWIGuy]

I have noticed that INDOT has added two "add travel lanes" projects for I-65...

1. From Memphis, IN (Blue Lick Road) exit to SR 56 (Scottsburg) exit- estimated start in Q3 of 2023
2. From north of SR 25 exit to north of SR 43 exit in the Lafayette area- estimated start in Q2 of 2022

Slowly creeping towards getting it all done.

The Indy-Louisville stretch has needed extra travel lanes. I can't recall a time I've ever set cruise on the route because of the speed-up/slow-down nature of traffic. There are two scenarios I've come across:

The first scenario comes from the split truck speed limit (70/65) coupled with trucks who want to pass each other at the least opportune of times. What you get is a situation where the trucks form a rolling roadblock at 65 mph or less, and taking up to five minutes to pass, then when the left lane clears there's a long convoy of vehicles behind them that takes awhile to come back up to speed, if they can get to speed before the next rolling roadblock.

This happens in IL too and it's so annoying. Why in the hell do they feel the need to do this? If I were a state trooper, I would pull over and ticket every trucker that does this for impeding the normal and reasonable flow of traffic.

What they are doing is not illegal if they are passing a truck (or anything else) that is going slower in the right hand lane.

What I have been told is that trucks in those situations are not wanting to speed up to pass due to the trucking company monitoring their driving.  So they keep their cruise on and inch past.

[Crash_It]

I have noticed that INDOT has added two "add travel lanes" projects for I-65...

1. From Memphis, IN (Blue Lick Road) exit to SR 56 (Scottsburg) exit- estimated start in Q3 of 2023
2. From north of SR 25 exit to north of SR 43 exit in the Lafayette area- estimated start in Q2 of 2022

Slowly creeping towards getting it all done.

The Indy-Louisville stretch has needed extra travel lanes. I can't recall a time I've ever set cruise on the route because of the speed-up/slow-down nature of traffic. There are two scenarios I've come across:

The first scenario comes from the split truck speed limit (70/65) coupled with trucks who want to pass each other at the least opportune of times. What you get is a situation where the trucks form a rolling roadblock at 65 mph or less, and taking up to five minutes to pass, then when the left lane clears there's a long convoy of vehicles behind them that takes awhile to come back up to speed, if they can get to speed before the next rolling roadblock.

This happens in IL too and it's so annoying. Why in the hell do they feel the need to do this? If I were a state trooper, I would pull over and ticket every trucker that does this for impeding the normal and reasonable flow of traffic.

What they are doing is not illegal if they are passing a truck (or anything else) that is going slower in the right hand lane.

What I have been told is that trucks in those situations are not wanting to speed up to pass due to the trucking company monitoring their driving.  So they keep their cruise on and inch past.

But if the truck speed limit is 65 and a truck going 66 wants to pass the truck going 65..he should not have to since the limit is 65 and especially not when cars going 70 or more are specifically in that lane to pass them all.

[Flint1979]

I have noticed that INDOT has added two "add travel lanes" projects for I-65...

1. From Memphis, IN (Blue Lick Road) exit to SR 56 (Scottsburg) exit- estimated start in Q3 of 2023
2. From north of SR 25 exit to north of SR 43 exit in the Lafayette area- estimated start in Q2 of 2022

Slowly creeping towards getting it all done.

The Indy-Louisville stretch has needed extra travel lanes. I can't recall a time I've ever set cruise on the route because of the speed-up/slow-down nature of traffic. There are two scenarios I've come across:

The first scenario comes from the split truck speed limit (70/65) coupled with trucks who want to pass each other at the least opportune of times. What you get is a situation where the trucks form a rolling roadblock at 65 mph or less, and taking up to five minutes to pass, then when the left lane clears there's a long convoy of vehicles behind them that takes awhile to come back up to speed, if they can get to speed before the next rolling roadblock.

This happens in IL too and it's so annoying. Why in the hell do they feel the need to do this? If I were a state trooper, I would pull over and ticket every trucker that does this for impeding the normal and reasonable flow of traffic.

It's like that in Michigan too especially bad on the four lane stretches of I-69 and I-94. It really annoys me when they do it too. IMO they don't belong in the left lane and really don't have too much of a reason to pass someone going 2 mph slower than them.

[silverback1065]

Why do they make the truck speed limit 5 miles lower?

[KeithE4Phx]

Why do they make the truck speed limit 5 miles lower?

To annoy both truck drivers and those of us in cars that have to pass them. 

[NWI_Irish96]

Why do they make the truck speed limit 5 miles lower?

When it got introduced, I thought there was some sort of study showing that 65 mph for trucks reduced tire blowouts significantly compared to 70 mph, but I can't find anything about it now.

[I-55]

Why do they make the truck speed limit 5 miles lower?

When it got introduced, I thought there was some sort of study showing that 65 mph for trucks reduced tire blowouts significantly compared to 70 mph, but I can't find anything about it now.

It's another consequence of having lawmakers determine speed limits. Set broad guidelines and let the DOT figure it out, if going to 70 is too much the DOT won't post 70, etc. There are plenty of roads in this state that could/would/should be higher if they were allowed to. I think we've mentioned them enough on this forum to know which ones they are.

[silverback1065]

i wish legislatures and town counsels had no authority to do this. let the engineers do it.

[Crash_It]

Why do they make the truck speed limit 5 miles lower?

This happens where there is no rural truck speed limit... So that has nothing to do with it

[Rothman]

i wish legislatures and town counsels had no authority to do this. let the engineers do it.

Heh.  Engineers aren't as unified on what speed limits should be as you think.