Indiana Notes

[silverback1065]

Got back from college a couple weeks ago, haven't been on that side of town recently. I'll try to get an update this month if I can. Hopefully the flyover is under way.

Don't think the flyover is being done anymore, I think it's a full cloverleaf now.

[thefarmerchris]

Got back from college a couple weeks ago, haven't been on that side of town recently. I'll try to get an update this month if I can. Hopefully the flyover is under way.

Don't think the flyover is being done anymore, I think it's a full cloverleaf now.

It's no longer showing on the INDOT construction map. It's a shame too. A flyover would do so much for traffic going south at that interchange.....

[I-55]

Got back from college a couple weeks ago, haven't been on that side of town recently. I'll try to get an update this month if I can. Hopefully the flyover is under way.

Don't think the flyover is being done anymore, I think it's a full cloverleaf now.

It's no longer showing on the INDOT construction map. It's a shame too. A flyover would do so much for traffic going south at that interchange.....

If no flyover is constructed that would leave the west side in a folded diamond. The more I think of it, it's probably going to remain this way since when I visited in August there was a new traffic light at the ramp entrance.

[tdindy88]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is indeed the final configuration of that exit. INDOT loves doing the bare minimum. The US 20 and 31 exit in South Bend and I-65 and SR 25 interchange in Lafayette are further proof of this. And since US 24 now heads north on I-469 from the US 24 interchange they only need it to be "free-flowing" from the north, not the south. I mentioned it in a previous post but I wish INDOT did some interstates like they did up in Wisconsin along I-41. All the flyovers I saw there in Appleton and Green Bay, both cities smaller than Fort Wayne could have been nice around the Fort. But alas, INDOT will almost always do the bare minimum if they can. In fairness, the upcoming exit with US 31 and I-94 in Benton Harbor shows we aren't the only ones.

[westerninterloper]

Got back from college a couple weeks ago, haven't been on that side of town recently. I'll try to get an update this month if I can. Hopefully the flyover is under way.

Don't think the flyover is being done anymore, I think it's a full cloverleaf now.

I saw no evidence of flyover construction there.

[NWI_Irish96]

https://www.facebook.com/rob.mangus1/posts/10160758475323228

Not a state highway and not a route many, if any, of you are likely to find yourself on, but if you're fascinated by underpass projects here are some really good photos of one that is finishing up in Munster. 45th Street, a road that connects as far as Gary to the east and Glenwood, IL, to the west, had a jog at Calumet Ave, utilizing Calumet's at-grade railroad crossing. The town undertook the construction of an underpass for 45th Street that allowed both legs of 45th to connect at the same point at Calumet.

[thefarmerchris]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is indeed the final configuration of that exit. INDOT loves doing the bare minimum. The US 20 and 31 exit in South Bend and I-65 and SR 25 interchange in Lafayette are further proof of this. And since US 24 now heads north on I-469 from the US 24 interchange they only need it to be "free-flowing" from the north, not the south. I mentioned it in a previous post but I wish INDOT did some interstates like they did up in Wisconsin along I-41. All the flyovers I saw there in Appleton and Green Bay, both cities smaller than Fort Wayne could have been nice around the Fort. But alas, INDOT will almost always do the bare minimum if they can. In fairness, the upcoming exit with US 31 and I-94 in Benton Harbor shows we aren't the only ones.

I would love to see INDOT do things more like WisDOT. Cloverleafs at major junctions just aren't safe IMO. (See I69/US30)
In order for a flyover ramp to be feasible, INDOT would have to route US24 along 900 East and then onto the south side of I469. Through traffic already uses that route already, but for some odd reason INDOT moved the routing along the north side of Fort Wayne. The "free-flowing" ramps from the north side of that interchange would impact some historical property on the NW side of the current US24/I469 interchange.

[pianocello]

https://www.facebook.com/rob.mangus1/posts/10160758475323228

Not a state highway and not a route many, if any, of you are likely to find yourself on, but if you're fascinated by underpass projects here are some really good photos of one that is finishing up in Munster. 45th Street, a road that connects as far as Gary to the east and Glenwood, IL, to the west, had a jog at Calumet Ave, utilizing Calumet's at-grade railroad crossing. The town undertook the construction of an underpass for 45th Street that allowed both legs of 45th to connect at the same point at Calumet.

Looks good! I've never been there, but one of the engineers spoke about this project with our ASCE student chapter when I was at Valpo. It was still in the design phase at the time, so it's cool to see the finished product.

[nwi_navigator_1181]

https://www.facebook.com/rob.mangus1/posts/10160758475323228

Not a state highway and not a route many, if any, of you are likely to find yourself on, but if you're fascinated by underpass projects here are some really good photos of one that is finishing up in Munster. 45th Street, a road that connects as far as Gary to the east and Glenwood, IL, to the west, had a jog at Calumet Ave, utilizing Calumet's at-grade railroad crossing. The town undertook the construction of an underpass for 45th Street that allowed both legs of 45th to connect at the same point at Calumet.

I've been watching this particular project with great interest. Even though it's been a while since I've driven that way, I know how notoriously bad this jog was. It was crippling during a standard rush hour evening, but add a train to the mix, and it was a complete stranglehold on the area. The underpass and reroute looks amazing and will take a LOT of the sting out of that section.

Plans are in place to grade-separate the CN tracks from Calumet Avenue not too long from now, but what's there is nice and will suffice for the interim. Nice collab between Munster, Canadian National, and INDOT.

[Finrod]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is indeed the final configuration of that exit. INDOT loves doing the bare minimum. The US 20 and 31 exit in South Bend and I-65 and SR 25 interchange in Lafayette are further proof of this.

Yeah, that I-65/SR 25 area is ugly and stupid.  Also, why didn't they extend SR 225 along SR 25's old alignment so that it still connects to 25?  As it is now, 225 just ends at old 25.

[silverback1065]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is indeed the final configuration of that exit. INDOT loves doing the bare minimum. The US 20 and 31 exit in South Bend and I-65 and SR 25 interchange in Lafayette are further proof of this.

Yeah, that I-65/SR 25 area is ugly and stupid.  Also, why didn't they extend SR 225 along SR 25's old alignment so that it still connects to 25?  As it is now, 225 just ends at old 25.

because indot doesn't like to do things that make sense for continuity's sake. Look at what they did to all the highways in the lafayette area. Surprised they still wanted 225 at all honestly, especially with that weird 1 lane bridge.

[Great Lakes Roads]

INDOT will be putting ramp meters and digital speed limit signs on the I-465 SE leg. Construction will start in 2022.



The recommended alternative is on page 12 in the PowerPoint that was released today.
https://www.in.gov/indot/files/465%20SE%20TSMO%20PIM%2020201215%20presentation.pdf

[tdindy88]

In other words, we don't want to widen I-465 on the southeast side to eight lanes.

[I-55]

I would love to see INDOT do things more like WisDOT. Cloverleafs at major junctions just aren't safe IMO. (See I69/US30)

Fort Wayne has 4 cloverleaf interchanges and 1 parclo. The parclo at Exit 302 is perfectly fine as is, as is the cloverleaf at 305. I totally agree that 309 has plenty of problems, mostly the amount of trucks using the loop ramps on the NB side of I-69. I drive on 30 pretty regularly and merging at that interchange isn't easy. INDOT extended the auxiliary lanes beyond the loop ramps but I've yet to see anyone use them. Exit 311 is a bit tricky since there are intersections close to the interchange on both sides. I think a good SPUI might work there, there aren't as many problems there but traffic is thick nevertheless. 312 feels overbuilt but I've never been through it at rush hour, otherwise fine as is.

In order for a flyover ramp to be feasible, INDOT would have to route US24 along 900 East and then onto the south side of I469. Through traffic already uses that route already, but for some odd reason INDOT moved the routing along the north side of Fort Wayne.

I don't know why 24 isn't on 900 yet. 1) It's shorter to go around town that way. 2) It's shorter to take 900 to 69 to get from Roanoke to Exit 302 than it is just to take 24. 3) The current routing has significantly higher traffic counts than 900 -> 469.

INDOT will be putting ramp meters and digital speed limit signs on the I-465 SE leg. Construction will start in 2022.



The recommended alternative is on page 12 in the PowerPoint that was released today.
https://www.in.gov/indot/files/465%20SE%20TSMO%20PIM%2020201215%20presentation.pdf

In other words, we don't want to widen I-465 on the southeast side to eight lanes.

Which with there about to be 3 interstates on some of that stretch you'd think we'd want capacity. At least it looks like the speed limit will be above 55 for some of the day now. Hopefully this goes in on other parts of the road, I usually find myself in the upper 60s-mid 70s even at peak hours.

[thefarmerchris]

I would love to see INDOT do things more like WisDOT. Cloverleafs at major junctions just aren't safe IMO. (See I69/US30)

Fort Wayne has 4 cloverleaf interchanges and 1 parclo. The parclo at Exit 302 is perfectly fine as is, as is the cloverleaf at 305. I totally agree that 309 has plenty of problems, mostly the amount of trucks using the loop ramps on the NB side of I-69. I drive on 30 pretty regularly and merging at that interchange isn't easy. INDOT extended the auxiliary lanes beyond the loop ramps but I've yet to see anyone use them. Exit 311 is a bit tricky since there are intersections close to the interchange on both sides. I think a good SPUI might work there, there aren't as many problems there but traffic is thick nevertheless. 312 feels overbuilt but I've never been through it at rush hour, otherwise fine as is.

I've used the aux lanes at the 309. They aren't bad, but it's still not safe especially during peak times. Flyovers for 30EB/I69N and I69N/30WB should be built. Get rid of the loop ramps on the east side of the interchange.
A SPUI style interchange may work at 311, however with those intersections on both sides of the interchange being extremely congested at most hours, I don't know if that will work or not. If they did a Keystone Parkway style setup for IN-3 north of SR930 to maybe Carroll road, that may help to alleviate.....maybe a good post for fictional....

In order for a flyover ramp to be feasible, INDOT would have to route US24 along 900 East and then onto the south side of I469. Through traffic already uses that route already, but for some odd reason INDOT moved the routing along the north side of Fort Wayne.

I don't know why 24 isn't on 900 yet. 1) It's shorter to go around town that way. 2) It's shorter to take 900 to 69 to get from Roanoke to Exit 302 than it is just to take 24. 3) The current routing has significantly higher traffic counts than 900 -> 469.

You are exactly correct. Unless you are going into town, nobody goes East on 24 past 900 East. All of the trucks turn right.......possible need for a widening of that intersection.

[Finrod]

because indot doesn't like to do things that make sense for continuity's sake. Look at what they did to all the highways in the lafayette area. Surprised they still wanted 225 at all honestly, especially with that weird 1 lane bridge.

Agreed re Lafayette.  The whole getting rid of state highways in cities just seems dumb.  SR 26 is discontinuous now because of it.  Personally I wonder if there's any reason Lafayette and West Lafayette couldn't sign the route that INDOT abandoned as Lafayette/West Lafayette 26.  At least then the number would be continuous and many people wouldn't even notice the change.

[NWI_Irish96]

because indot doesn't like to do things that make sense for continuity's sake. Look at what they did to all the highways in the lafayette area. Surprised they still wanted 225 at all honestly, especially with that weird 1 lane bridge.

Agreed re Lafayette.  The whole getting rid of state highways in cities just seems dumb.  SR 26 is discontinuous now because of it.  Personally I wonder if there's any reason Lafayette and West Lafayette couldn't sign the route that INDOT abandoned as Lafayette/West Lafayette 26.  At least then the number would be continuous and many people wouldn't even notice the change.

When INDOT decommissioned 311, 403, and part of 160, Clark County signed them as County highways with the same numbers. No reason other counties/cities couldn't do the same.

[I-55]

because indot doesn't like to do things that make sense for continuity's sake. Look at what they did to all the highways in the lafayette area. Surprised they still wanted 225 at all honestly, especially with that weird 1 lane bridge.

Agreed re Lafayette.  The whole getting rid of state highways in cities just seems dumb.  SR 26 is discontinuous now because of it.  Personally I wonder if there's any reason Lafayette and West Lafayette couldn't sign the route that INDOT abandoned as Lafayette/West Lafayette 26.  At least then the number would be continuous and many people wouldn't even notice the change.

When INDOT decommissioned 311, 403, and part of 160, Clark County signed them as County highways with the same numbers. No reason other counties/cities couldn't do the same.

I know Dekalb county does this as well with CR327 and CR427 (not CR27 which was numbered to fit their grid)

[silverback1065]

Two things that need to happen, US 20 and SR 2 need to be flipped near Rolling Prairie. US 24 needs to be put on CR 900 E/Lafayette Center Road.

[PurdueBill]

because indot doesn't like to do things that make sense for continuity's sake. Look at what they did to all the highways in the lafayette area. Surprised they still wanted 225 at all honestly, especially with that weird 1 lane bridge.

Agreed re Lafayette.  The whole getting rid of state highways in cities just seems dumb.  SR 26 is discontinuous now because of it.  Personally I wonder if there's any reason Lafayette and West Lafayette couldn't sign the route that INDOT abandoned as Lafayette/West Lafayette 26.  At least then the number would be continuous and many people wouldn't even notice the change.

West Lafayette doesn't even want thru traffic using the old route of 26 as a way through town (witness the elimination of the one-way pairs and the general gridlock that prevails at times basically on purpose to slow things down); that shouldn't stop SOME route from being signed as "TO 26" or something so that people can navigate from one side of 26 to the other.  Ditto for 25.  The routing of US 52 over Teal Road to get over to the "new" 231 to cross over to the new(er) bypass is bonkers; if they hadn't let 350 South get so congested it might have been a logical route; when I first lived there in the late 90s there was literally nothing on 350 South and now it is just as congested as 26 east of town, maybe more.  The discontinuous routes at Lafayette are crazy.  I'm semi-surprised they haven't introduced discontinuities to 25 in Logansport and stuff like that too while they are at it.

The only time when driving to Lafayette from NE Ohio via US 30 and 24 and then SR 25 in the last 15 years that I didn't use CR 900 instead of staying on 24 was one time when a train was stopped across the crossing on 900 and everyone was having to turn around (and we didn't know how long the train was or what other crossings were blocked  so we went back out to 69 and up to 24; what a waste of time and distance).  There is not much reason not to have 24 use it now; INDOT has even signed 900 for the FWA airport which would be via picking up 469 and the old alignment of 24 (before the swap, the signage for the airport actually had you cut off via 900 and be back on US 24!).

[Great Lakes Roads]

https://fb.watch/2qF4ZWrd5G/

Here is a video of the proposed metering and variable speed limits project on I-465 on the SE side of Indy.

[ibthebigd]

I wonder how often the lights will he active?

SM-G950U

[silverback1065]

didn't indot pay for the upgrades to lafayette center road ?

[silverback1065]

the original plan was to have 26, 25, and 52 all use teal road. for some reason indot nixed that idea. i remember for a very short time before this rerouting, 25 ran on teal only, but then jumped up onto 38 ALONE, and 38 ended at 65. this was only for a few months though.

[thefarmerchris]

didn't indot pay for the upgrades to lafayette center road ?

That is my assumption. I'd imagine the plan would be to route US24 onto 900 East once the US24/I469 interchange modification was complete.