Indiana Notes

[mukade]

It says roundabout, and there is now an article on the web.

A while back, I thought I read that the Allisonville Rd. and 116th St intersection in Fishers might also become a roundabout (or otherwise improved).

interesting, i wonder if that will actually work. i feel like there would be a lot of "bullying" of movements (when 1 movement has a very high volume in relation to another and causes the smaller movement to be bullied and back up).

That is one of the problems with the Olio Rd. roundabout. The thru route is Olio Rd. south from the roundabout, and Southeastern Pkwy. northwest from the roundabout towards I-69. Hence, 136th St. westbound can have long backups. To some extent, the same thing happens on Olio Rd. north of that roundabout, but it is less built up north.

That roundabout also has a fifth approach from The hospital (also 136th St.), and that traffic frequently suffers from bullying.

I think 96th St. and Allisonville Rd. traffic volumes are more balanced than the other Fishers example so the roundabout could work. I don't think the Michigan left turns at that intersection were very popular, and the fact that it was the only one in the region only made it worse.

[silverback1065]

It says roundabout, and there is now an article on the web.

A while back, I thought I read that the Allisonville Rd. and 116th St intersection in Fishers might also become a roundabout (or otherwise improved).

interesting, i wonder if that will actually work. i feel like there would be a lot of "bullying" of movements (when 1 movement has a very high volume in relation to another and causes the smaller movement to be bullied and back up).

That is one of the problems with the Olio Rd. roundabout. The thru route is Olio Rd. south from the roundabout, and Southeastern Pkwy. northwest from the roundabout towards I-69. Hence, 136th St. westbound can have long backups. To some extent, the same thing happens on Olio Rd. north of that roundabout, but it is less built up north.

That roundabout also has a fifth approach from The hospital (also 136th St.), and that traffic frequently suffers from bullying.

I think 96th St. and Allisonville Rd. traffic volumes are more balanced than the other Fishers example so the roundabout could work. I don't think the Michigan left turns at that intersection were very popular, and the fact that it was the only one in the region only made it worse.

the michigan left is weird, i always drive it wrong and use the technically wrong u-turn movement  . also i am sure there is a "proper" term for what i described as "bullying" but that's the only way i can describe it 

[bmeiser]

I do it "wrong" too as in I ignore the signs which tell you turn right on the road you want to turn left on and then make the U turn. I do it the way you are actually supposed to do it... as in how they do it in Michigan... which is pass the road you want to turn onto, make your U turn, and then turn right.

[mukade]

More on the three planned roundabouts for Allisonville Rd:

Indy Star article: 'It's about time': Fishers does U-turn on Michigan Left; change coming to 96th St. intersection

The above article also states:

In addition, the city is planning a roundabout at 116th Street and Allisonville...

Current in Fishers article on 146th St interchange: Hamilton County announces timeline for $37 million Allisonville Road and 146th Street interchange project

[silverback1065]

interesting. I had no idea that Michigan left worked so well to improve traffic, reduced delay by 60%!

[cjw2001]

It says roundabout, and there is now an article on the web.

A while back, I thought I read that the Allisonville Rd. and 116th St intersection in Fishers might also become a roundabout (or otherwise improved).

interesting, i wonder if that will actually work. i feel like there would be a lot of "bullying" of movements (when 1 movement has a very high volume in relation to another and causes the smaller movement to be bullied and back up).

That is one of the problems with the Olio Rd. roundabout. The thru route is Olio Rd. south from the roundabout, and Southeastern Pkwy. northwest from the roundabout towards I-69. Hence, 136th St. westbound can have long backups. To some extent, the same thing happens on Olio Rd. north of that roundabout, but it is less built up north.

That roundabout also has a fifth approach from The hospital (also 136th St.), and that traffic frequently suffers from bullying.

I think 96th St. and Allisonville Rd. traffic volumes are more balanced than the other Fishers example so the roundabout could work. I don't think the Michigan left turns at that intersection were very popular, and the fact that it was the only one in the region only made it worse.

Looks like Fishers has plans to remove the 5th leg from the Olio Road roundabout.  https://map.fishers.in.us/arcgis/rest/services/Capital_Projects/FeatureServer/2/11/attachments/6801

[mukade]

Looks like Fishers has plans to remove the 5th leg from the Olio Road roundabout.  https://map.fishers.in.us/arcgis/rest/services/Capital_Projects/FeatureServer/2/11/attachments/6801

I guess that is the best option, and it works for what is there today. If that area south of the Culver's restaurant gets developed, it will create another dangerous situation due to the traffic volume on Olio Road. Specifically, people wanting to go south from westbound 136th St would have to go through the original roundabout to make a U turn. I also wonder if they will change the right westbound lane of Southeastern Parkway to allow thru traffic to reduce the sometimes very long backups. 

I saw that a whole bunch of new roundabout locations have been announced in the Indianapolis area.  I am surprised that some areas of the state still seem to have an aversion to them.

[silverback1065]

Looks like Fishers has plans to remove the 5th leg from the Olio Road roundabout.  https://map.fishers.in.us/arcgis/rest/services/Capital_Projects/FeatureServer/2/11/attachments/6801

I guess that is the best option, and it works for what is there today. If that area south of the Culver's restaurant gets developed, it will create another dangerous situation due to the traffic volume on Olio Road. Specifically, people wanting to go south from westbound 136th St would have to go through the original roundabout to make a U turn. I also wonder if they will change the right westbound lane of Southeastern Parkway to allow thru traffic to reduce the sometimes very long backups. 

I saw that a whole bunch of new roundabout locations have been announced in the Indianapolis area.  I am surprised that some areas of the state still seem to have an aversion to them.

are the one in indy all on the south side?

[tdindy88]

There's two on the far east side, at German Church Rd and 42nd and 46th Streets. As well there's one at Morris Street and Bridgeport Road on the west side. And a new one's coming up at Southeastern and English near the new justice center complex.

[cjw2001]

Looks like Fishers has plans to remove the 5th leg from the Olio Road roundabout.  https://map.fishers.in.us/arcgis/rest/services/Capital_Projects/FeatureServer/2/11/attachments/6801

I guess that is the best option, and it works for what is there today. If that area south of the Culver's restaurant gets developed, it will create another dangerous situation due to the traffic volume on Olio Road. Specifically, people wanting to go south from westbound 136th St would have to go through the original roundabout to make a U turn. I also wonder if they will change the right westbound lane of Southeastern Parkway to allow thru traffic to reduce the sometimes very long backups. 

I saw that a whole bunch of new roundabout locations have been announced in the Indianapolis area.  I am surprised that some areas of the state still seem to have an aversion to them.

Likely the need for an occasional U turn from westbound 136th street traffic is a small price to pay for the elimination of the need to yield at 136th for southbound traffic coming from the larger roundabout.  That will help to keep traffic moving.  Also note that left turns from westbound 136th are not possible today so this is unchanged with the new design.

[cjw2001]

Preliminary Clear Path 465 construction begins along I-465:  https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/INDOT/bulletins/30cd151

[Revive 755]

From recent travels:  The first roundabout on IN 2 west/south of US 30 near Valparaiso has circular shields.  The roundabout farther west on IN 2 has normal Indiana shields.

[nwi_navigator_1181]

According to the NWI Times, the city of Hobart is exploring the concept of a new interchange at I-65 at 69th Avenue. Officials are looking to confer with federal transportation authorities and INDOT about the feasibility of having an interchange there.

The reason behind it is the influx of industrial businesses and training offices located along Mississippi Street between 73rd and 61st Avenue. They believe the interchange would be good for direct access to I-65 from that area, as well as taking pressure off US 30 and 61st Avenue, which are currently the only outlets to access I-65 from the industrial area. With the recently completed work along 69th Avenue between Mississippi and Colorado Streets (including a new roundabout), 69th Avenue could be another viable connection to I-65...

...Which is why residents living along Mississippi Street and 69th Avenue are opposed to this concept. They fear (understandably so) that it would attract too much traffic to what is an otherwise quiet section of the city.

Another problem that I see not mentioned in the article: what about I-65 itself? To make this work effectively, they would have to do a revamp of I-65 between US 30 and 61st Avenue. The 73rd Avenue overpass would have to be rebuilt, as well as the I-65 bridge over the CN Rail Line, to accommodate a continuous auxiliary lane that would have to be built to make the movements a little more fluid (one lane in each direction between US 30 and 69th, and another between 69th and 61st), especially when you consider the very short distances between the three points. You also have to keep in mind about potential ROW issues (including the nearby Merrillville High School football field).

All of this again is exploratory, and the subject will be broached at a City Hall meeting this month.

[NWI_Irish96]

According to the NWI Times, the city of Hobart is exploring the concept of a new interchange at I-65 at 69th Avenue. Officials are looking to confer with federal transportation authorities and INDOT about the feasibility of having an interchange there.

The reason behind it is the influx of industrial businesses and training offices located along Mississippi Street between 73rd and 61st Avenue. They believe the interchange would be good for direct access to I-65 from that area, as well as taking pressure off US 30 and 61st Avenue, which are currently the only outlets to access I-65 from the industrial area. With the recently completed work along 69th Avenue between Mississippi and Colorado Streets (including a new roundabout), 69th Avenue could be another viable connection to I-65...

...Which is why residents living along Mississippi Street and 69th Avenue are opposed to this concept. They fear (understandably so) that it would attract too much traffic to what is an otherwise quiet section of the city.

Another problem that I see not mentioned in the article: what about I-65 itself? To make this work effectively, they would have to do a revamp of I-65 between US 30 and 61st Avenue. The 73rd Avenue overpass would have to be rebuilt, as well as the I-65 bridge over the CN Rail Line, to accommodate a continuous auxiliary lane that would have to be built to make the movements a little more fluid (one lane in each direction between US 30 and 69th, and another between 69th and 61st), especially when you consider the very short distances between the three points. You also have to keep in mind about potential ROW issues (including the nearby Merrillville High School football field).

All of this again is exploratory, and the subject will be broached at a City Hall meeting this month.

69th ave doesn't currently connect across I-65. Would this include building a new roadway along with the interchange?

[nwi_navigator_1181]

69th ave doesn't currently connect across I-65. Would this include building a new roadway along with the interchange?

I was of the understanding that 69th Avenue would be built out to I-65 and terminate at the proposed interchange, since taking it any further west would infringe on the nearby football field I mentioned upthread. I wouldn't be surprised if a sound wall on the west side of the interchange would be required to mitigate the impact.

[silverback1065]

  seems like a bad idea. reminds me of 106th st and 69 in fishers. that worked though.

[NWI_Irish96]

69th ave doesn't currently connect across I-65. Would this include building a new roadway along with the interchange?

I was of the understanding that 69th Avenue would be built out to I-65 and terminate at the proposed interchange, since taking it any further west would infringe on the nearby football field I mentioned upthread. I wouldn't be surprised if a sound wall on the west side of the interchange would be required to mitigate the impact.

So from I-65 you'd only be able to go east and not west? If so, that doesn't sound as bad.

[mukade]

Why not build an interchange at 73rd Avenue? It would be cheaper, and make much more sense.

Moreover, considering that proposed interchange on I-65 would be within Merrillville town limits, it doesn't seem like the City of Hobart could act unilaterally.

[skluth]

Why not build an interchange at 73rd Avenue? It would be cheaper, and make much more sense.

Moreover, considering that proposed interchange on I-65 would be within Merrillville town limits, it doesn't seem like the City of Hobart could act unilaterally.

I thought about a 73rd Av interchange myself. I think it's because the owners of the old homes along Mississippi between 69th and 73rd are the same people who complained about the increased traffic from the proposed 69th Av interchange. I agree it would make much more sense. But sense and NIMBYs don't mix.

[Great Lakes Roads]

It's that time of year again when we see some orange barrels on the roads!

Here are some projects that will be underway soon in NW Indiana:

1. Bridge replacement on I-94 east of Johnson Road. Two 11-foot lanes with two-foot shoulders will remain open in both directions. Starts on March 14th.
2. Bridge replacement on US 20/31 at South Michigan Street. One lane each way on the WB bridge while the EB bridge gets replaced. Starts on March 14th and the whole project is expected to be completed by early December.

[mukade]

Why not build an interchange at 73rd Avenue? It would be cheaper, and make much more sense.

Moreover, considering that proposed interchange on I-65 would be within Merrillville town limits, it doesn't seem like the City of Hobart could act unilaterally.

I thought about a 73rd Av interchange myself. I think it's because the owners of the old homes along Mississippi between 69th and 73rd are the same people who complained about the increased traffic from the proposed 69th Av interchange. I agree it would make much more sense. But sense and NIMBYs don't mix.

That should be a non-issue. There has been a considerable amount of recent new freeway construction on I-69, US 31, SR 37, etc. in Indiana that has impacted hundreds and hundreds of properties. Heck, they even built I-69 through Bloomington which is the NIMBY capital of the state.

If it is a priority, the state or local governments can and will make it happen.

Spending a ton of money on a new interchange only to serve one direction (as would be the case with an interchange at 69th Ave) isn't really a smart thing to do.

[NWI_Irish96]

It's that time of year again when we see some orange barrels on the roads!

Here are some projects that will be underway soon in NW Indiana:

1. Bridge replacement on I-94 east of Johnson Road. Two 11-foot lanes with two-foot shoulders will remain open in both directions. Starts on March 14th.
2. Bridge replacement on US 20/31 at South Michigan Street. One lane each way on the WB bridge while the EB bridge gets replaced. Starts on March 14th and the whole project is expected to be completed by early December.

Both of these are on the route to my parents' house. This year may be the time to try out alternate routes.

[nwi_navigator_1181]

Why not build an interchange at 73rd Avenue? It would be cheaper, and make much more sense.

Moreover, considering that proposed interchange on I-65 would be within Merrillville town limits, it doesn't seem like the City of Hobart could act unilaterally.

I thought about a 73rd Av interchange myself. I think it's because the owners of the old homes along Mississippi between 69th and 73rd are the same people who complained about the increased traffic from the proposed 69th Av interchange. I agree it would make much more sense. But sense and NIMBYs don't mix.

The prospect of an interchange at 73rd Avenue was actually considered a few years ago, but was abandoned (can't remember the reason why). I think it should be revisited, with modifications.

The interchange should be partial, with a southbound exit and a northbound entrance. I think that most traffic would utilize those movements, especially those who shop or commute mostly in plazas north of US 30. Plus, it would provide relatively easy access to the industrial area with existing pavement. No need to rebuild bridges for auxiliary lanes, and not much ROW will be required for acceleration/deceleration lanes.

Why partial? Just look at the nearby US 30 interchange. By the time you're fully merged onto I-65 northbound from US 30 west (where the acceleration lane ends), you're already at the 73rd Avenue overpass. Traffic potentially entering southbound from 73rd Avenue would have a FIGHT with traffic looking to exit to US 30, especially since the auxiliary lane starts right after the underpass. I honestly don't think it's worth redoing an entire interchange to accommodate another full interchange a couple hundred feet away. A partial interchange that would take some pressure off the northern portion of the US 30 interchange would be the most ideal solution.

[mukade]

Why not build an interchange at 73rd Avenue? It would be cheaper, and make much more sense.

Moreover, considering that proposed interchange on I-65 would be within Merrillville town limits, it doesn't seem like the City of Hobart could act unilaterally.

I thought about a 73rd Av interchange myself. I think it's because the owners of the old homes along Mississippi between 69th and 73rd are the same people who complained about the increased traffic from the proposed 69th Av interchange. I agree it would make much more sense. But sense and NIMBYs don't mix.

The prospect of an interchange at 73rd Avenue was actually considered a few years ago, but was abandoned (can't remember the reason why). I think it should be revisited, with modifications.

The interchange should be partial, with a southbound exit and a northbound entrance. I think that most traffic would utilize those movements, especially those who shop or commute mostly in plazas north of US 30. Plus, it would provide relatively easy access to the industrial area with existing pavement. No need to rebuild bridges for auxiliary lanes, and not much ROW will be required for acceleration/deceleration lanes.

Why partial? Just look at the nearby US 30 interchange. By the time you're fully merged onto I-65 northbound from US 30 west (where the acceleration lane ends), you're already at the 73rd Avenue overpass. Traffic potentially entering southbound from 73rd Avenue would have a FIGHT with traffic looking to exit to US 30, especially since the auxiliary lane starts right after the underpass. I honestly don't think it's worth redoing an entire interchange to accommodate another full interchange a couple hundred feet away. A partial interchange that would take some pressure off the northern portion of the US 30 interchange would be the most ideal solution.

Yeah, that is right about the problems of 73rd Avenue being close to the US 30 interchange. I remember that from when I lived up there.

However, I think the partial interchanges are generally suboptimal. Years ago, there were several of them around Chicago, but I think most have since become full ones. I could see two options that might work best: 1) a folded diamond interchange or 2) a dog bone interchange at 69th Ave where that road would go both east and west, To the west, it could connect back to 73rd Ave at a roundabout.

Also, if the contention by Hobart is that a lot of light industrial and warehousing will be built there, then many of the employees would presumably come from the south as well. If only a partial interchange were built, those prospective workers would have to funnel thru the congested US 30 interchange retail area.

The plan as stated in the article (i.e. eastbound only) has a couple of problems. First, traffic could jump on Mississippi St and go south to 73rd, but that would put a lot of additional traffic on Mississippi. Secondly, why would Merrillville consent to taking valuable property on I-65 off their tax rolls for a road that would provide far and away more benefit to another municipality?

[silverback1065]

so I took a drive up to Tipton to see what SR 19 and 28 are doing there. and the verdict is nothing. routing is exactly as it was before.