Indiana Notes

[ITB]

INDOT has announced today that the SR 225 bridge (built in 1910) over the Wabash River near Battle Ground will remain closed until a bridge rehabilitation project starts in July 2024, which is two years away.

wait what? why is it closed?

Appears the bridge was damaged due to vehicles over the 12 ton limit using the bridge as a detour when a crash involving a Greyhound bus, which resulted in a fatality, closed I-65. According to BridgeHunter.com, the one-lane Jewettsport Ford Bridge was rehabilitated in 1989.

https://bridgehunter.com/in/tippecanoe/29150/

https://www.jconline.com/story/news/2021/06/15/indiana-225-bridge-wabash-river-closed/7707349002/

[ITB]

Along sections of I-69 in Monroe County, crack seal already has been put down on the longitudinal joint seam between the lanes, as well as in the joint between the right lane and the shoulder. This stretch of road is less than four years old. Unfortunately, this is not a new issue in the asphalt industry. The problem of longitudinal joint cracking is well known but, apparently, no definitive, cost-effective solution as yet has been found.

Poking around the internet I came across a small report uploaded by a Purdue University library (no author, no institution, no date) that looks at longitudinal joint cracking, and puts forward several steps to help tackle the issue. One step mentioned is to apply a thick coat of rubberized asphalt sealant to the semi-cold or cold side of the joint. The report states that field research has "demonstrated that the use of hot-poured, rubberized asphalt sealer as a tack coat (about 1/8 inch or 3 mm thick) on the face of the first paved lane produced the most durable longitudinal joints," compared to a thin tack sealant application.

I'm wondering. Has INDOT tried using a rubberized asphalt sealant on longitudinal joints in the past? If so, what were the results? And, if not, does it have any plans to consider doing so? Also, some other state transportation agency may have experimented with this type of joint sealant. Does anyone know? Anyone have anything to add on this? Feedback?

[ysuindy]

Local authorities want to extend the "new" US 231 beyond Sagamore Parkway directly north to I-65

https://davebangert.substack.com/p/a-plan-for-commercial-growth-a-new?r=2fe&s=w&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

It would seem this would be a long way off

[PurdueBill]

Local authorities want to extend the "new" US 231 beyond Sagamore Parkway directly north to I-65

https://davebangert.substack.com/p/a-plan-for-commercial-growth-a-new?r=2fe&s=w&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

It would seem this would be a long way off

Would 231 then go up 65 to meet its old self?  INDOT has had no problem making discontinuous segments of state roads but they have not done the same with US highways. 

It would be a boon for football game day traffic to/from the north to have the dual carriageway 231 go up to 65, although it isn't usually that bad as you get further away.  If they want to have the new road go straight north from where it meets 52 today, they will be threading right by Meijer and have to buy out townhomes and stuff unless they threaded around them.

[bmeiser]

Wonder if they could just straighten out and upgrade 250w / Morehouse Rd / 500w and then build an interchange at 65?

Pixel 6

[NWI_Irish96]

Wonder if they could just straighten out and upgrade 250w / Morehouse Rd / 500w and then build an interchange at 65?

Pixel 6

Or is there a way to curve the road around and have it meet up with 43 at that interchange and not have to build a new one?

[tosa]

I think the preferred route of 231 extension will not only work as a direct interstate connection for Purdue, but it will also serve (I believe) as part of the future beltway of Greater Lafayette. If INDOT just wants to give Purdue better interstate access, widening the currently 231 would be much cheaper, less land to acquire, no new interchange.

[tosa]

Wonder if they could just straighten out and upgrade 250w / Morehouse Rd / 500w and then build an interchange at 65?

Pixel 6

Or is there a way to curve the road around and have it meet up with 43 at that interchange and not have to build a new one?

Not a good idea. The only way for the corridor to meet 43 interchange is to go west somewhere between 500 and 600N, but that area is already developed. It is almost impossible to find vacant land to build a 4 line road.

[silverback1065]

Local authorities want to extend the "new" US 231 beyond Sagamore Parkway directly north to I-65

https://davebangert.substack.com/p/a-plan-for-commercial-growth-a-new?r=2fe&s=w&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

It would seem this would be a long way off

Would 231 then go up 65 to meet its old self?  INDOT has had no problem making discontinuous segments of state roads but they have not done the same with US highways. 

It would be a boon for football game day traffic to/from the north to have the dual carriageway 231 go up to 65, although it isn't usually that bad as you get further away.  If they want to have the new road go straight north from where it meets 52 today, they will be threading right by Meijer and have to buy out townhomes and stuff unless they threaded around them.

INDOT is not allowed to have gaps in US highways. the Feds wouldn't allow it. yes there are a few technical gaps around the country but the feds have them in their books as continuous. I believe 2 technical gaps exist in colorado. 

[silverback1065]

The way the bypass just ends at a right angle with sagamore suggests that is their plan. just probably either didnt have the money or traffic to justify it. hopefully they eventually do it, they could sign all the routes continuously in the area. 231 would just be cosigned with 65 between exit 193 and whatever exit the bypass would be.

[I-55]

The way the bypass just ends at a right angle with sagamore suggests that is their plan. just probably either didnt have the money or traffic to justify it. hopefully they eventually do it, they could sign all the routes continuously in the area. 231 would just be cosigned with 65 between exit 193 and whatever exit the bypass would be.

I could totally see this turning into my senior design project in a couple years. Would really benefit the area as Sagamore can back up from Schuyler all the way past the river on gamedays and weekends. Our connection to I-65 north is really poor, as River Rd isn't a good option because it's hard to get to and 231 is far out of town.

[Revive 755]

The "Planning and Environmental Linkage" (PEL) Report is online for the Borman flex lane study:  https://www.indianaflexroad.com/8094flexroad/pelstudy

[Great Lakes Roads]

https://www.tribstar.com/news/local_news/indot-presents-plans-for-north-clinton-street-redo/article_f40e61db-0906-59e5-b3cd-fb26f13d8e90.html

https://www.in.gov/indot/files/Des-1500146-US-41-Design-Plans.pdf

Here's a plan sheet on the bridge removal on Clinton Street (OLD US 41) north of Terre Haute. J-Turns will be installed at the intersection with Quinn Avenue, and RIRO will be on NB US 41.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5688543,-87.3707612,3a,75y,52.13h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scxJe0rSx0G2BASwJ8pvnSA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[silverback1065]

https://www.tribstar.com/news/local_news/indot-presents-plans-for-north-clinton-street-redo/article_f40e61db-0906-59e5-b3cd-fb26f13d8e90.html

https://www.in.gov/indot/files/Des-1500146-US-41-Design-Plans.pdf

Here's a plan sheet on the bridge removal on Clinton Street (OLD US 41) north of Terre Haute. J-Turns will be installed at the intersection with Quinn Avenue, and RIRO will be on NB US 41.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5688543,-87.3707612,3a,75y,52.13h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scxJe0rSx0G2BASwJ8pvnSA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

i wonder what made that interchange dangerous?

[tosa]

https://www.tribstar.com/news/local_news/indot-presents-plans-for-north-clinton-street-redo/article_f40e61db-0906-59e5-b3cd-fb26f13d8e90.html

https://www.in.gov/indot/files/Des-1500146-US-41-Design-Plans.pdf

Here's a plan sheet on the bridge removal on Clinton Street (OLD US 41) north of Terre Haute. J-Turns will be installed at the intersection with Quinn Avenue, and RIRO will be on NB US 41.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5688543,-87.3707612,3a,75y,52.13h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scxJe0rSx0G2BASwJ8pvnSA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

i wonder what made that interchange dangerous?

I guess the bridge is approaching its age limit but they don't have money to rebuild it?

[jnewkirk77]

https://www.tribstar.com/news/local_news/indot-presents-plans-for-north-clinton-street-redo/article_f40e61db-0906-59e5-b3cd-fb26f13d8e90.html

https://www.in.gov/indot/files/Des-1500146-US-41-Design-Plans.pdf

Here's a plan sheet on the bridge removal on Clinton Street (OLD US 41) north of Terre Haute. J-Turns will be installed at the intersection with Quinn Avenue, and RIRO will be on NB US 41.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5688543,-87.3707612,3a,75y,52.13h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scxJe0rSx0G2BASwJ8pvnSA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

i wonder what made that interchange dangerous?

The nearby intersections see a fair number of wrecks - there's an elementary school that's in the vicinity. And as far as the overpass itself, it has a clearance of 14' (maybe an inch or 2 more), which is lower than they want.

[Great Lakes Roads]

https://wsbt.com/news/local/breaking-indiana-toll-road-near-cr-17-exit-in-elkhart-experiencing-traffic-backups

The Indiana Toll Road is currently closed eastbound from US 31 (exit 72) to IN SR 15 (exit 101) due to a washout at MP 96 (Elkhart east exit).

[NWI_Irish96]

https://wsbt.com/news/local/breaking-indiana-toll-road-near-cr-17-exit-in-elkhart-experiencing-traffic-backups

The Indiana Toll Road is currently closed eastbound from US 31 (exit 72) to IN SR 15 (exit 101) due to a washout at MP 96 (Elkhart east exit).

I saw that. Very weird place to have a washout.

[edwaleni]

INDOT has announced today that the SR 225 bridge (built in 1910) over the Wabash River near Battle Ground will remain closed until a bridge rehabilitation project starts in July 2024, which is two years away.

wait what? why is it closed?

Appears the bridge was damaged due to vehicles over the 12 ton limit using the bridge as a detour when a crash involving a Greyhound bus, which resulted in a fatality, closed I-65. According to BridgeHunter.com, the one-lane Jewettsport Ford Bridge was rehabilitated in 1989.

https://bridgehunter.com/in/tippecanoe/29150/

https://www.jconline.com/story/news/2021/06/15/indiana-225-bridge-wabash-river-closed/7707349002/

These issues seem to be happening more often with semi-truck drivers attempting to cross weight restricted bridges to avoid long waits.

Is it because we have more weight restricted bridges in the national inventory, (due to deferred spending), or is it because of new truck driver time limits?

Seems I am seeing more irrational over weight collapses in the last few years. Some are on YouTube showing a clear overweight taking a huge risk.

[triplemultiplex]

I'd attribute that to truckers using consumer-grade GPS navigation rather than those GPS units that specialize in navigating large, commercial vehicles.

[edwaleni]

I'd attribute that to truckers using consumer-grade GPS navigation rather than those GPS units that specialize in navigating large, commercial vehicles.

Makes sense, but the question begs in this case, if using a consumer grade GPS, the signs at the bridge usually state pretty clearly what the limit is. So would the trucker not know how much the GW of their load is?

I mean interstates (most) have scales to support their weight restrictions. The driver has to know ( I would think) before they hitch their load, how much they are pulling.

[Alps]

I'd attribute that to truckers using consumer-grade GPS navigation rather than those GPS units that specialize in navigating large, commercial vehicles.

Makes sense, but the question begs in this case, if using a consumer grade GPS, the signs at the bridge usually state pretty clearly what the limit is. So would the trucker not know how much the GW of their load is?

I mean interstates (most) have scales to support their weight restrictions. The driver has to know ( I would think) before they hitch their load, how much they are pulling.

the driver just doesn't even care

[JREwing78]

INDOT has announced today that the SR 225 bridge (built in 1910) over the Wabash River near Battle Ground will remain closed until a bridge rehabilitation project starts in July 2024, which is two years away.

This begs the question - why bother reopening the bridge to vehicle traffic at all? It's a perfect highlight for a non-motorized path alongside SR 225.

I realize the locals fought to keep the bridge open, and a new-build bridge is expensive, but reopening this bridge to vehicle traffic is folly. The only way they could guarantee a bus or semi doesn't use it is to put up a 8' tall crash beam on the approach to each side, which would detract from the bridge's appearance.

[triplemultiplex]

No offense to anyone who drives truck for a living, but that's a profession that's not exactly known its geniuses.  It never surprises me when truckers make boneheaded moves like running into low overpasses or trying to cross bridges that can't handle their weight.  Don't get me wrong, regular car drivers are idiots as well; bigger idiots in most cases.  But they're not supposed professionals.  Trucking gets their drivers from the same pool of shlubs we all came from, so picture the 2 or 3 biggest dingbats at your work.  That same bell curve applies to truckers.  Except at the low end of their bell curve, tons of vehicle crash into things instead of your spreadsheet getting messed up.

[Rothman]

No offense to anyone who drives truck for a living, but that's a profession that's not exactly known its geniuses.  It never surprises me when truckers make boneheaded moves like running into low overpasses or trying to cross bridges that can't handle their weight.  Don't get me wrong, regular car drivers are idiots as well; bigger idiots in most cases.  But they're not supposed professionals.  Trucking gets their drivers from the same pool of shlubs we all came from, so picture the 2 or 3 biggest dingbats at your work.  That same bell curve applies to truckers.  Except at the low end of their bell curve, tons of vehicle crash into things instead of your spreadsheet getting messed up.

Not all truckers are created equal.  My feeling is that those schmucks hitting low overpasses or running overweight over bridges are either from small outfits running by the seat of their pants or Swift.

There are a whole lot of professional truckers out there that know what they're doing on the road.