Indiana Notes

[monty]

Some very preliminary planning regarding a new I65 interchange north of West Lafayette to connect to existing US 231 to form a street level western loop. https://www.wlfi.com/news/local/wabash-tippecanoe-township-residents-skeptical-of-u-s-231-extension/article_f89d171a-a0e3-11ee-ac83-4b511160da29.html

[I-55]

Some very preliminary planning regarding a new I65 interchange north of West Lafayette to connect to existing US 231 to form a street level western loop. https://www.wlfi.com/news/local/wabash-tippecanoe-township-residents-skeptical-of-u-s-231-extension/article_f89d171a-a0e3-11ee-ac83-4b511160da29.html

I've been looking forward to this...

Would certainly address the rapid northward expansion of West Lafayette as well as improve mobility from Purdue to I-65 north.

[boilerup25]

Some very preliminary planning regarding a new I65 interchange north of West Lafayette to connect to existing US 231 to form a street level western loop. https://www.wlfi.com/news/local/wabash-tippecanoe-township-residents-skeptical-of-u-s-231-extension/article_f89d171a-a0e3-11ee-ac83-4b511160da29.html

I'm a current Boilermaker, and I'll definitely be glad for an extension of the new US 231 bypass alignment to I-65. I'm surprised that the 231 bypass wasn't built all the way to I-65 when it was first built in the early 2010s, especially considering that (re-) connecting with I-65 from the bypass is via an underpowered, two lane US 231. This extension is much-needed for multiple reasons such as better connecting Purdue with Chicago and its major airport, the growth of the Purdue campus and community, as well as to facilitate flow to and from I-65 on Purdue game days (they already sign I-65 from Ross-Ade stadium and sign routes for football traffic). I have a feeling that when this extension is built, River Road (former IN 43) and Sagamore Parkway (former US 52) will see some much-needed relief.

[silverback1065]

I find it interesting that the road goes further than 65 too, I wonder where it will end?  I also wonder if the old 231 will become a county road.

[boilerup25]

I find it interesting that the road goes further than 65 too, I wonder where it will end?  I also wonder if the old 231 will become a county road.

The new alignment of the US 231 bypass will drop US 231 off at I-65 (and US 231 follows I-65 north to its current alignment), but the roadway will extend to IN 43 just south of Brookston. This is where the new bypass alignment ends. I saw this information in some older Tippecanoe County documents detailing the northern extension of the US 231 bypass. I also assume that the old US 231 alignment will become a county route, very likely County Route 850 West because it already has an "S 850 W" naming convention (unless the road is given a name, like Montmorenci Road, Moore Street, or another name).

My big question I have is this - What do you think will be the designation for the "231 bypass" between the I-65 junction (where US 231 leaves) and the IN 43 junction? I assume this new alignment will have an IN x43 designation, or will become the IN 43 mainline and the old IN 43 will either receive an IN x43 designation or be relinquished - which begs this question: If IN 43 is relinquished on its old alignment in favor of being placed on the bypass, then what will happen to IN 225 which will be completely orphaned from the Indiana State Highway system? (IN 225 no longer connects to IN 25 ever since IN 25 was moved onto the Hoosier Heartland Highway, and it only connects to the rest of the state highway system via IN 43)

[NWI_Irish96]

I find it interesting that the road goes further than 65 too, I wonder where it will end?  I also wonder if the old 231 will become a county road.

The new alignment of the US 231 bypass will drop US 231 off at I-65 (and US 231 follows I-65 north to its current alignment), but the roadway will extend to IN 43 just south of Brookston. This is where the new bypass alignment ends. I saw this information in some older Tippecanoe County documents detailing the northern extension of the US 231 bypass. I also assume that the old US 231 alignment will become a county route, very likely County Route 850 West because it already has an "S 850 W" naming convention (unless the road is given a name, like Montmorenci Road, Moore Street, or another name).

My big question I have is this - What do you think will be the designation for the "231 bypass" between the I-65 junction (where US 231 leaves) and the IN 43 junction? I assume this new alignment will have an IN x43 designation, or will become the IN 43 mainline and the old IN 43 will either receive an IN x43 designation or be relinquished - which begs this question: If IN 43 is relinquished on its old alignment in favor of being placed on the bypass, then what will happen to IN 225 which will be completely orphaned from the Indiana State Highway system? (IN 225 no longer connects to IN 25 ever since IN 25 was moved onto the Hoosier Heartland Highway, and it only connects to the rest of the state highway system via IN 43)

I didn't look through the document thoroughly enough to find any discussion of funding, but if the county is funding this project and not INDOT, then this won't be a state highway. If the county wants INDOT to take over the route after they build it, INDOT is going to want the county to take back other roadway in return, so perhaps this becomes a new routing of 231 that follows 65 up to Wolcott and the existing 231 becomes a county road.

[boilerup25]

I find it interesting that the road goes further than 65 too, I wonder where it will end?  I also wonder if the old 231 will become a county road.

The new alignment of the US 231 bypass will drop US 231 off at I-65 (and US 231 follows I-65 north to its current alignment), but the roadway will extend to IN 43 just south of Brookston. This is where the new bypass alignment ends. I saw this information in some older Tippecanoe County documents detailing the northern extension of the US 231 bypass. I also assume that the old US 231 alignment will become a county route, very likely County Route 850 West because it already has an "S 850 W" naming convention (unless the road is given a name, like Montmorenci Road, Moore Street, or another name).

My big question I have is this - What do you think will be the designation for the "231 bypass" between the I-65 junction (where US 231 leaves) and the IN 43 junction? I assume this new alignment will have an IN x43 designation, or will become the IN 43 mainline and the old IN 43 will either receive an IN x43 designation or be relinquished - which begs this question: If IN 43 is relinquished on its old alignment in favor of being placed on the bypass, then what will happen to IN 225 which will be completely orphaned from the Indiana State Highway system? (IN 225 no longer connects to IN 25 ever since IN 25 was moved onto the Hoosier Heartland Highway, and it only connects to the rest of the state highway system via IN 43)

I didn't look through the document thoroughly enough to find any discussion of funding, but if the county is funding this project and not INDOT, then this won't be a state highway. If the county wants INDOT to take over the route after they build it, INDOT is going to want the county to take back other roadway in return, so perhaps this becomes a new routing of 231 that follows 65 up to Wolcott and the existing 231 becomes a county road.

I also don't know too much about the funding of this project, however, based on what I have seen in the documents, the documents explicitly state that the new roadway is intended to be a new routing of US 231. Here is where I found the documents:

https://www.tippecanoe.in.gov/684/US-231 - New US 231 alignment in Tippecanoe County Study
https://www.tippecanoe.in.gov/DocumentCenter/View/7057/Route-Map--US-52-to-I-65 - Route Map from US 52 to I-65 (This is the one showing the new alignment)

Even if Tippecanoe County is funding this project, it seems very likely that they will turn over the new roadway to INDOT.

Relevant quotes from the Route Map from US 52 to I-65 document regarding what will happen to existing US 231 and whether the new roadway will officially be a state highway/US 231:
"The programming of this project is dependant on available funding, future growth in White County and execution of appropriate relinquishment agreements with Tippecanoe County and White County" (Tippecanoe County Government) - This is relevant to the fate of old US 231 (and maybe the fate of IN 43 if IN 43 is realigned onto a potential extension of the 231 bypass?)
"Future growth north of Lafayette drives the need for a new terrain alignment, which will extend US 231 northward from US 52 to I65. The Lafayette MPO has suggested that the alignment be extended to SR 43." (Tippecanoe County Government) - This details that the new alignment will be for US 231, and states that the end of the new alignment beyond I-65 will be at IN 43.

[NWI_Irish96]

I find it interesting that the road goes further than 65 too, I wonder where it will end?  I also wonder if the old 231 will become a county road.

The new alignment of the US 231 bypass will drop US 231 off at I-65 (and US 231 follows I-65 north to its current alignment), but the roadway will extend to IN 43 just south of Brookston. This is where the new bypass alignment ends. I saw this information in some older Tippecanoe County documents detailing the northern extension of the US 231 bypass. I also assume that the old US 231 alignment will become a county route, very likely County Route 850 West because it already has an "S 850 W" naming convention (unless the road is given a name, like Montmorenci Road, Moore Street, or another name).

My big question I have is this - What do you think will be the designation for the "231 bypass" between the I-65 junction (where US 231 leaves) and the IN 43 junction? I assume this new alignment will have an IN x43 designation, or will become the IN 43 mainline and the old IN 43 will either receive an IN x43 designation or be relinquished - which begs this question: If IN 43 is relinquished on its old alignment in favor of being placed on the bypass, then what will happen to IN 225 which will be completely orphaned from the Indiana State Highway system? (IN 225 no longer connects to IN 25 ever since IN 25 was moved onto the Hoosier Heartland Highway, and it only connects to the rest of the state highway system via IN 43)

I didn't look through the document thoroughly enough to find any discussion of funding, but if the county is funding this project and not INDOT, then this won't be a state highway. If the county wants INDOT to take over the route after they build it, INDOT is going to want the county to take back other roadway in return, so perhaps this becomes a new routing of 231 that follows 65 up to Wolcott and the existing 231 becomes a county road.

I also don't know too much about the funding of this project, however, based on what I have seen in the documents, the documents explicitly state that the new roadway is intended to be a new routing of US 231. Here is where I found the documents:

https://www.tippecanoe.in.gov/684/US-231 - New US 231 alignment in Tippecanoe County Study
https://www.tippecanoe.in.gov/DocumentCenter/View/7057/Route-Map--US-52-to-I-65 - Route Map from US 52 to I-65 (This is the one showing the new alignment)

Even if Tippecanoe County is funding this project, it seems very likely that they will turn over the new roadway to INDOT.

Relevant quotes from the Route Map from US 52 to I-65 document regarding what will happen to existing US 231 and whether the new roadway will officially be a state highway/US 231:
"The programming of this project is dependant on available funding, future growth in White County and execution of appropriate relinquishment agreements with Tippecanoe County and White County" (Tippecanoe County Government) - This is relevant to the fate of old US 231 (and maybe the fate of IN 43 if IN 43 is realigned onto a potential extension of the 231 bypass?)
"Future growth north of Lafayette drives the need for a new terrain alignment, which will extend US 231 northward from US 52 to I65. The Lafayette MPO has suggested that the alignment be extended to SR 43." (Tippecanoe County Government) - This details that the new alignment will be for US 231, and states that the end of the new alignment beyond I-65 will be at IN 43.

If the new road is going to be US 231, then I imagine 231 follows I-65 all the way up to the northern of the three interchanges US 231 currently has.

Some or all of the existing 231 may be turned back to the counties, or perhaps just the part south of IN 18 with the rest reverting back to its original IN 53 designation.

[boilerup25]

I find it interesting that the road goes further than 65 too, I wonder where it will end?  I also wonder if the old 231 will become a county road.

The new alignment of the US 231 bypass will drop US 231 off at I-65 (and US 231 follows I-65 north to its current alignment), but the roadway will extend to IN 43 just south of Brookston. This is where the new bypass alignment ends. I saw this information in some older Tippecanoe County documents detailing the northern extension of the US 231 bypass. I also assume that the old US 231 alignment will become a county route, very likely County Route 850 West because it already has an "S 850 W" naming convention (unless the road is given a name, like Montmorenci Road, Moore Street, or another name).

My big question I have is this - What do you think will be the designation for the "231 bypass" between the I-65 junction (where US 231 leaves) and the IN 43 junction? I assume this new alignment will have an IN x43 designation, or will become the IN 43 mainline and the old IN 43 will either receive an IN x43 designation or be relinquished - which begs this question: If IN 43 is relinquished on its old alignment in favor of being placed on the bypass, then what will happen to IN 225 which will be completely orphaned from the Indiana State Highway system? (IN 225 no longer connects to IN 25 ever since IN 25 was moved onto the Hoosier Heartland Highway, and it only connects to the rest of the state highway system via IN 43)

I didn't look through the document thoroughly enough to find any discussion of funding, but if the county is funding this project and not INDOT, then this won't be a state highway. If the county wants INDOT to take over the route after they build it, INDOT is going to want the county to take back other roadway in return, so perhaps this becomes a new routing of 231 that follows 65 up to Wolcott and the existing 231 becomes a county road.

I also don't know too much about the funding of this project, however, based on what I have seen in the documents, the documents explicitly state that the new roadway is intended to be a new routing of US 231. Here is where I found the documents:

https://www.tippecanoe.in.gov/684/US-231 - New US 231 alignment in Tippecanoe County Study
https://www.tippecanoe.in.gov/DocumentCenter/View/7057/Route-Map--US-52-to-I-65 - Route Map from US 52 to I-65 (This is the one showing the new alignment)

Even if Tippecanoe County is funding this project, it seems very likely that they will turn over the new roadway to INDOT.

Relevant quotes from the Route Map from US 52 to I-65 document regarding what will happen to existing US 231 and whether the new roadway will officially be a state highway/US 231:
"The programming of this project is dependant on available funding, future growth in White County and execution of appropriate relinquishment agreements with Tippecanoe County and White County" (Tippecanoe County Government) - This is relevant to the fate of old US 231 (and maybe the fate of IN 43 if IN 43 is realigned onto a potential extension of the 231 bypass?)
"Future growth north of Lafayette drives the need for a new terrain alignment, which will extend US 231 northward from US 52 to I65. The Lafayette MPO has suggested that the alignment be extended to SR 43." (Tippecanoe County Government) - This details that the new alignment will be for US 231, and states that the end of the new alignment beyond I-65 will be at IN 43.

If the new road is going to be US 231, then I imagine 231 follows I-65 all the way up to the northern of the three interchanges US 231 currently has.

Some or all of the existing 231 may be turned back to the counties, or perhaps just the part south of IN 18 with the rest reverting back to its original IN 53 designation.

This is the most likely situation - US 231 will follow I-65 after leaving the new West Lafayette bypass alignment. However, neither of us know which junction US 231 will leave I-65 on, whether it be the southern, middle, or northern junction. US 231 departing I-65 at the northernmost junction near IN 53 will allow for an IN 53 extension all the way down to Montmorenci (unless other portions of 231 are relinquished) without leaving a large gap in the IN 53 designation.

[mukade]

This is the most likely situation - US 231 will follow I-65 after leaving the new West Lafayette bypass alignment. However, neither of us know which junction US 231 will leave I-65 on, whether it be the southern, middle, or northern junction. US 231 departing I-65 at the northernmost junction near IN 53 will allow for an IN 53 extension all the way down to Montmorenci (unless other portions of 231 are relinquished) without leaving a large gap in the IN 53 designation.

I generally agree, but with a twist. Acknowledging that this gets into fantasy highways, US 231 could continue to SR 43 and then go all the way up to Michigan City. North of Lafayette, there is no value to US 231 on its current routing, and it would be better to restore original SR 8 and SR 53 designations supplemented with "I-65 emergency detour" signage (that is the actual value). Similarly, there is no value to US 421 north of Greensburg, so extending US 231 to Michigan City would give the US 231 designation a purpose north of Lafayette while keeping  a N-S US highway in Michigan City.

The alternative is to simply truncate US 231 at the potential new I-65 interchange. I agree SR 53 (and SR 8) can replace US 231 north of Lafayette in any case.

[tdindy88]

Swinging things back to the other side of the Hoosier State, I was looking through some road plans for upcoming projects and saw something very interesting. As you may know they are building the last loop needed to turn the I-469 and US 24 interchange into a full cloverleaf (Exit 21.) I was very happy to see that they were adding Toledo as a control city for US 24 east along I-469. Rose Avenue remains the control for the westbound road. I know this had been discussed in the past so it was nice to see INDOT finally putting Toledo up on I-469.

[NWI_Irish96]

This is the most likely situation - US 231 will follow I-65 after leaving the new West Lafayette bypass alignment. However, neither of us know which junction US 231 will leave I-65 on, whether it be the southern, middle, or northern junction. US 231 departing I-65 at the northernmost junction near IN 53 will allow for an IN 53 extension all the way down to Montmorenci (unless other portions of 231 are relinquished) without leaving a large gap in the IN 53 designation.

I generally agree, but with a twist. Acknowledging that this gets into fantasy highways, US 231 could continue to SR 43 and then go all the way up to Michigan City. North of Lafayette, there is no value to US 231 on its current routing, and it would be better to restore original SR 8 and SR 53 designations supplemented with "I-65 emergency detour" signage (that is the actual value). Similarly, there is no value to US 421 north of Greensburg, so extending US 231 to Michigan City would give the US 231 designation a purpose north of Lafayette while keeping  a N-S US highway in Michigan City.

The alternative is to simply truncate US 231 at the potential new I-65 interchange. I agree SR 53 (and SR 8) can replace US 231 north of Lafayette in any case.

I always thought 421 should have continued to follow the Old Michigan Road up to Rochester, and 231 should have gone north from West Lafayette to Michigan City. Very unlikely they do that now though.

[Life in Paradise]

This is the most likely situation - US 231 will follow I-65 after leaving the new West Lafayette bypass alignment. However, neither of us know which junction US 231 will leave I-65 on, whether it be the southern, middle, or northern junction. US 231 departing I-65 at the northernmost junction near IN 53 will allow for an IN 53 extension all the way down to Montmorenci (unless other portions of 231 are relinquished) without leaving a large gap in the IN 53 designation.

I generally agree, but with a twist. Acknowledging that this gets into fantasy highways, US 231 could continue to SR 43 and then go all the way up to Michigan City. North of Lafayette, there is no value to US 231 on its current routing, and it would be better to restore original SR 8 and SR 53 designations supplemented with "I-65 emergency detour" signage (that is the actual value). Similarly, there is no value to US 421 north of Greensburg, so extending US 231 to Michigan City would give the US 231 designation a purpose north of Lafayette while keeping  a N-S US highway in Michigan City.

The alternative is to simply truncate US 231 at the potential new I-65 interchange. I agree SR 53 (and SR 8) can replace US 231 north of Lafayette in any case.

I always thought 421 should have continued to follow the Old Michigan Road up to Rochester, and 231 should have gone north from West Lafayette to Michigan City. Very unlikely they do that now though.

In looking at the map from afar, I've always wondered why US 421 took those turns and then went up straight to Michigan City rather than following at least the straight path up to Logansport and then perhaps veer slightly west along what is currently US 35's path to Michigan City.  US 231's path from afar would  make it seem like going straight north along US 421's current route straight to Michigan City is right in line with the path all through Indiana down to Owensboro, KY.  I do know that 231 was extended at different times to end up near Crown Point, but the other just looked right.

[silverback1065]

us 421 shouldn't exist north of 74, it's route has always been strange even before the interstate era.

[SEWIGuy]

us 421 shouldn't exist north of 74, it's route has always been strange even before the interstate era.

I once took that route from Valpo to Indy just because I had time to kill, and yeah...it's a strange route that is no better than a county highway in stretches.

[Moose]

Yes, even between the two "Endpoints" Michigan City and Indianapolis, another route is faster.. US 421, IN 29, US 35

Or if you include interstates. 65 to the exit just north of Lafayette, then just head due north.

[sprjus4]

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2024/bills/house/1308/details

New bill proposed that would increase the speed limit on rural interstate highways to 75 mph.

Honestly, I'd rather them increase the speed limit on wide open four lane divided highways to 65 mph or 70 mph, up from the current 60 mph.

[Revive 755]

Looks like there may also be a bill to ban future construction of J-turns:  https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2024/bills/house/1129/details

EDIT:  There's also a bill to allow speed cameras and school bus stop arm cameras:  https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2024/bills/house/1280/details

[Great Lakes Roads]

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2024/bills/house/1308/details

New bill proposed that would increase the speed limit on rural interstate highways to 75 mph.

Honestly, I'd rather them increase the speed limit on wide open four lane divided highways to 65 mph or 70 mph, up from the current 60 mph.

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2024/bills/house/1055/details

Another attempt at a bill on elimination of lower speed limit for trucks, raising it from 65 mph to 70 mph.

[ilpt4u]

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2024/bills/house/1308/details

New bill proposed that would increase the speed limit on rural interstate highways to 75 mph.

Honestly, I'd rather them increase the speed limit on wide open four lane divided highways to 65 mph or 70 mph, up from the current 60 mph.

That has always surprised me a bit about the Hoosier state. They went for 70 on interstates well before the Prairie state neighbor, but Illinois is fine with rural 65 mph divided highways.

[Great Lakes Roads]

Another interesting bill for INDOT: https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2024/bills/house/1366/details

Lane expansion of I-70. Requires the Indiana department of transportation to take action necessary to construct one or more additional lanes of traffic across the state for: (1) eastbound; and (2) westbound; Interstate Highway 70 in areas of Interstate Highway 70 where there are four lanes of traffic.

[JREwing78]

Looks like there may also be a bill to ban future construction of J-turns:  https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2024/bills/house/1129/details

Rep. Manning is from Logansport, so he's got a dog in this hunt. It's not immediately clear if this is a tactic to force InDOT to focus future improvements on freeway conversion, or if he and other locals have some kind of genuine opposition to the existence of J-turns.

Obviously the ultimate goal is full freeway, but InDOT can use J-turns to limit carnage in the meantime, since InDOT clearly doesn't have the funds to bring the section south of US-24 up to full freeway standards before the end of the decade. What I'd hate to see is InDOT having to put up new stoplights or otherwise delay safety improvements because the legislature kneecapped their ability to make interim safety improvements.

[JREwing78]

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2024/bills/house/1308/details

New bill proposed that would increase the speed limit on rural interstate highways to 75 mph.

Honestly, I'd rather them increase the speed limit on wide open four lane divided highways to 65 mph or 70 mph, up from the current 60 mph.

I'm not going to say no to a bump in speed limit to 75 on the Interstates. Maybe that helps nudge Michigan into making a 75 mph speed limit more universal on its freeway segments?

However, yes, bumping divided highways to 65 mph would be more helpful, as well as applying the Interstate-level speed limit to non-Interstate freeways (like the US-31 freeway segments south of South Bend).

The 55 mph speed limit on I-80/94 west of the Toll Road is completely silly. You drive that slow and you're impeding traffic.

[bmeiser]

The 55 mph speed limit on I-80/94 west of the Toll Road is completely silly. You drive that slow and you're impeding traffic.

Same with 465.

Pixel 7

[sprjus4]

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2024/bills/house/1308/details

New bill proposed that would increase the speed limit on rural interstate highways to 75 mph.

Honestly, I'd rather them increase the speed limit on wide open four lane divided highways to 65 mph or 70 mph, up from the current 60 mph.

I'm not going to say no to a bump in speed limit to 75 on the Interstates. Maybe that helps nudge Michigan into making a 75 mph speed limit more universal on its freeway segments?

However, yes, bumping divided highways to 65 mph would be more helpful, as well as applying the Interstate-level speed limit to non-Interstate freeways (like the US-31 freeway segments south of South Bend).

The 55 mph speed limit on I-80/94 west of the Toll Road is completely silly. You drive that slow and you're impeding traffic.

Agreed with all points. I believe there was a bill last year to increase certain divided highways (non freeway) to 70 mph, but it did not pass. That obviously would've included the freeway segments.