http://newsok.com/section-of-bridge-collapses-onto-northwest-expressway/article/5499105
Oklahoma's budget and maintenance woes come to roost
Quote from: TXtoNJ on May 19, 2016, 04:25:02 PM
http://newsok.com/section-of-bridge-collapses-onto-northwest-expressway/article/5499105
Oklahoma's budget and maintenance woes come to roost
BBBZZZTTTT
Wrong answer.
A truck hit it.
http://www.news9.com/story/32018393/northbound-lanes-of-may-ave-bridge-has-collapsed-onto-northwest-expressway
Besides, neither May nor NW Expy are State maintained.
Quote from: rte66man on May 19, 2016, 04:42:15 PM
Quote from: TXtoNJ on May 19, 2016, 04:25:02 PM
http://newsok.com/section-of-bridge-collapses-onto-northwest-expressway/article/5499105
Oklahoma's budget and maintenance woes come to roost
BBBZZZTTTT
Wrong answer.
A truck hit it.
http://www.news9.com/story/32018393/northbound-lanes-of-may-ave-bridge-has-collapsed-onto-northwest-expressway
Besides, neither May nor NW Expy are State maintained.
OKC is in Oklahoma, last I checked.
Also, a semi crash shouldn't collapse a bridge, if it weren't for age, maintenance and/or engineering deficiencies.
Quote from: TXtoNJ on May 19, 2016, 05:01:45 PM
Quote from: rte66man on May 19, 2016, 04:42:15 PM
Quote from: TXtoNJ on May 19, 2016, 04:25:02 PM
http://newsok.com/section-of-bridge-collapses-onto-northwest-expressway/article/5499105
Oklahoma's budget and maintenance woes come to roost
BBBZZZTTTT
Wrong answer.
A truck hit it.
http://www.news9.com/story/32018393/northbound-lanes-of-may-ave-bridge-has-collapsed-onto-northwest-expressway
Besides, neither May nor NW Expy are State maintained.
OKC is in Oklahoma, last I checked.
Also, a semi crash shouldn't collapse a bridge, if it weren't for age, maintenance and/or engineering deficiencies.
Although the speed limit is 45 there, the average seems to be about 55. Without knowing exactly what kind of truck hit it, where he hit it, and what he was carrying, I will refrain from making a blanket statement similar to yours about deferred maintenance, etc. Having traveled that exact stretch of road nearly every day for the last 22 years, I believe that, if he hit the center support, it wouldn't be that hard to bring down the span over the westbound lanes. For those not familiar with the area, here is the westbound NW Expressway from Google Streeteview:
https://goo.gl/maps/6bmYEMGHU4u
It was an overheight semi. The driver said he passed under the bridge just fine going eastbound so he didn't think there would be an issue going westbound. Apparently the westbound side is a few inches lower. Whoops.
Kind of a shame; this bridge was I believe the original crossing of US-66 and SH-3. Both 3 and 66 got realigned later, and NW Expressway was SH-3A for a good number of years until it was decommissioned, so all of the roads are maintained by OKC at this point. The bridge still had the period art deco railings and a cool white-on-black button copy sign on it, all of which will probably go away when the bridge gets replaced.
Here is the news article about a bridge section that collapsed onto the road below:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/overpass-collapses-onto-oklahoma-city-highway/ar-BBtfCcZ?ocid=spartanntp
I want to know what that truck driver was hauling that caused that kind of damage upon colliding with the overpass. Heavy equipment meaning construction vehicles? Building materials?
That ought to make local traffic interesting until that bridge gets replaced. Something like that happened over US 23 up in Michigan just a couple months back.
Quote from: Zeffy on May 19, 2016, 08:20:38 PM
I want to know what that truck driver was hauling that caused that kind of damage upon colliding with the overpass. Heavy equipment meaning construction vehicles? Building materials?
A boom lift, according to some reports.
My daughter works for ODOT in the Bridge Division. The driver was hauling a boom lift on a flatbed trailer. When the boom hit the first beam, it twisted the beam like a pretzel, thereby separating it from the deck and causing the deck to drop. Someone described it "like a fisherman hooking it and trying to drag it along with him". A design engineer said bridges built in the 50's did not have a design feature called sheer connectors:
from KFOR.com,
"Bobby Stem studies bridges. He said this one, like other older bridges, lacks sheer connectors. They pour the concrete down in between those sheer connectors, and it all becomes one piece at that time. So, if you hit it, everything wiggles, but it may not fall down. So, in this case, it's an older bridge. You had a bridge beam, and you had the concrete deck on top of it. Bridge beam was hit. It shifted. The entire thing fell down,"
The bridge (built in 1952 and repaired most recently as 2012 when yet another truck hit it) was never a part of US66. It could have been a part of Bypass 66. I will have to check my sources.
The consensus is that NW Expy will be open in both directions in time for Monday rush. Bridge replace will take a few months as OKC is broke and will likely have to divert road funds from a scheduled intersection improvement (or 2 or 3) in order to replace the deck and beams.
As to the button copy and ornate railing, I am going out there tomorrow and see if I can snag one or both.
I'd push more for the sign than the railing. The sign is unique.
You may have a better chance at getting it since it's the city of OKC you're dealing with. When we visited the old I-40 Crosstown for its open house prior to demolition we inquired as to taking one of the YIELD signs and the ODOT rep that was there was adamant that it had to be recycled. By which I mean sold for scrap, since it was obviously too old to be installed elsewhere. They didn't care if we took the covers off the lighting boxes, so we snagged those instead, but an actual sign would have been cooler.
Hot off the presses;
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7494/27066505191_d734d10fbc.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HeLV1B)IMG_1527 (https://flic.kr/p/HeLV1B) by rte66man (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rte66man/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7098/26529285394_0855b48a53.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Gqiwhj)IMG_1528 (https://flic.kr/p/Gqiwhj) by rte66man (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rte66man/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7157/26530923753_22ec43c252.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GqrViT)IMG_1530 (https://flic.kr/p/GqrViT) by rte66man (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rte66man/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7223/26530922663_b48bd660b9.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GqrUZ6)IMG_1532 (https://flic.kr/p/GqrUZ6) by rte66man (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rte66man/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7524/26530921393_3c68dfc667.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GqrUBc)IMG_1534 (https://flic.kr/p/GqrUBc) by rte66man (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rte66man/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7274/26529280024_6dfb1e674b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GqiuFJ)IMG_1535 (https://flic.kr/p/GqiuFJ) by rte66man (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rte66man/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7311/26529279324_feab24904e.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GqiutE)IMG_1537 (https://flic.kr/p/GqiutE) by rte66man (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rte66man/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7447/26530917983_9a9fab6a52.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GqrTAp)IMG_1540 (https://flic.kr/p/GqrTAp) by rte66man (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rte66man/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7572/27066507941_201e666366.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HeLVQ2)IMG_1541 (https://flic.kr/p/HeLVQ2) by rte66man (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rte66man/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7405/27135172155_d4c163c5b1.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HkQRiM)IMG_1544 (https://flic.kr/p/HkQRiM) by rte66man (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rte66man/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7349/27135171685_b8d5b23c31.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HkQRaF)IMG_1545 (https://flic.kr/p/HkQRaF) by rte66man (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rte66man/), on Flickr
Having seen the damage close up, there is no way they will have any of NW Expressway open in time for Monday's rush hour. The truck is still pinned under the wreckage.
Quote from: rte66man on May 20, 2016, 12:39:08 AM
My daughter works for ODOT in the Bridge Division. The driver was hauling a boom lift on a flatbed trailer. When the boom hit the first beam, it twisted the beam like a pretzel, thereby separating it from the deck and causing the deck to drop. Someone described it "like a fisherman hooking it and trying to drag it along with him". A design engineer said bridges built in the 50's did not have a design feature called sheer connectors:
from KFOR.com,
"Bobby Stem studies bridges. He said this one, like other older bridges, lacks sheer connectors. They pour the concrete down in between those sheer connectors, and it all becomes one piece at that time. So, if you hit it, everything wiggles, but it may not fall down. So, in this case, it's an older bridge. You had a bridge beam, and you had the concrete deck on top of it. Bridge beam was hit. It shifted. The entire thing fell down,"
The bridge (built in 1952 and repaired most recently as 2012 when yet another truck hit it) was never a part of US66. It could have been a part of Bypass 66. I will have to check my sources.
The consensus is that NW Expy will be open in both directions in time for Monday rush. Bridge replace will take a few months as OKC is broke and will likely have to divert road funds from a scheduled intersection improvement (or 2 or 3) in order to replace the deck and beams.
As to the button copy and ornate railing, I am going out there tomorrow and see if I can snag one or both.
Here is a pic from 1952
http://www.66postcards.com/postcards/ok/OK066100.html
Any chance they could raise the clearance of the overpass so this doesn't happen again?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 20, 2016, 04:38:23 PM
Any chance they could raise the clearance of the overpass so this doesn't happen again?
About the same chance that I'll become the next US President.
(1) - OKC has no money to even put it back the way it was.
(2) - They finally resolved the flooding under there about 5 years ago. I can't see them lowering NW Expressway. Raising May would bring up a different set of issues.
In an ideal world, the bridge height would be raised, the missing SE cloverleaf loop would be added, c/d lanes would be added in both directions on NW Expy, and wide pedestrian/bike lanes would be added on May in both directions.
Quote from: Zeffy on May 19, 2016, 08:20:38 PM
I want to know what that truck driver was hauling that caused that kind of damage upon colliding with the overpass. Heavy equipment meaning construction vehicles? Building materials?
He had a flatbed trailer with a bucket lift of some sort on it. The top of the lift caught the first beam, hooked it, and twisted it in such a way to take the roadbed with it (see photos elsewhere in this thread). The trailer and lift are still trapped underneath the rubble. It's a miracle no one was on May at the exact moment he hit.
Quote from: TXtoNJ on May 19, 2016, 05:01:45 PM
Also, a semi crash shouldn't collapse a bridge, if it weren't for age, maintenance and/or engineering deficiencies.
The Skagit River Bridge, which carries the 5 over the Skagit River near Mount Vernon, WA, collapsed after being struck by a truck. The design was "fracture critical", in that a single piece of the whole collapsing would result in the entirety of the subsection collapsing. In this case, an over-height truck hit one of the overhead beams, which knocked the whole northern subsection into the river.
The keyword here is "[the] fracture critical [design]". The bridge itself is functionally obsolete, yes. But it wasn't poorly maintained, and had passed its most recent inspection. Seeing as not all bridges can be brand-spanking new, it's to be accepted that there might be bridges which are more prone to collapse, simply because of their design (which was not necessarily substandard at the date of construction).
Quote from: rte66man on May 20, 2016, 06:17:30 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on May 19, 2016, 08:20:38 PM
I want to know what that truck driver was hauling that caused that kind of damage upon colliding with the overpass. Heavy equipment meaning construction vehicles? Building materials?
He had a flatbed trailer with a bucket lift of some sort on it. The top of the lift caught the first beam, hooked it, and twisted it in such a way to take the roadbed with it (see photos elsewhere in this thread). The trailer and lift are still trapped underneath the rubble. It's a miracle no one was on May at the exact moment he hit.
Thanks for the photos! Does anyone know if this was truly an accident, or just another case of truckers not paying attention to bridges (*cough* Durham, NC)?
Rte66man's ODOT daughter reporting in. We have confirmed that ODOT will not have any involvement in this project so I can talk about it. Standard disclaimer applies, I am not a licensed engineer and I do not represent the state in any official capacity. All opinions are my own.
Division offered to help with the clean up yesterday but the city said they had it under control. They started demo early this afternoon (we were there at 10 am) and it is expected to last up to a week before NW Expressway can be fully opened up for traffic again. I'm no photographer so apologies for the phone shots. We had no real reason to be there but a neon vest will get you anywhere ;) The police were very accommodating. I suspect guarding a broken bridge isn't the most exciting assignment.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fhz2RaXI.jpg&hash=63d0d3dcfbe86611402f6d96e48186bfb64d1a16)
The button reflectors on the road sign didn't photograph well but in person it is gorgeous. If there hadn't been a dozen cops around I would have been tempted to scavenge.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FC2lJCuF.jpg&hash=155b3a34eaa72cb39a6c88a9fc395bac3e5acfe2)
Here's an up-close of the damage, including the little crane thing that did the damage. Basically, the bucket caught the beam and since the crane was well secured to the flatbed, it dragged the entire superstructure. More on that after the pics.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fxd9PBPS.jpg&hash=f74d1588dbe8e8ae970db43275fe60aa05ed1037)
This pretty much sums up what caused the collapse. The old roller bearings were torn completely off of the pier cap, leaving the beams with no support at all. Like the contractor said in the article, nowadays bearings are anchored with shear connectors embedded in the concrete. Would that have prevented this? Unknown, but unlikely. The damage was pretty severe. Our engineers speculate that the beams would quite possibly have fallen even on a modern build. The difference is now we make the pier caps wider, so if a beam does fall from the bearing, it will be caught on the cap.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FaD95hNm.jpg&hash=c861cfff891317f0f9ae06a05ae6bcfc66960dc4)
Totally pretzeled. We had a lively debate over how much of the beam twisting was the truck's impact and how much was a result of the weight of the superstructure. Also, if any of you are structure geeks, note the old-school diaphragm bolting. So cool.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FcT2TMF1.jpg&hash=73402c5ec5fcb8234ca9bea123c55015e0901f0c)
Notice how deteriorated the rebar already was. This poor deck had seen better days. It has nothing to do with the collapse but it does say something about the city's maintenance priorities.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FjdpwR7f.jpg&hash=ffbb3309a55c1ec8398aa6ce5b1da5f5e09d0add)
This one is looking east from the other side of the collapse. Pieces of the truck are still all over the road. Since it was no longer a crime scene we could take small souvenirs. I got a piece of a torn off bearing pad.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FL08nyF4.jpg&hash=db53054db99a793e25bee6b255d3232ee24a0794)
This is the (undamaged) eastbound span. The railing is breathtaking. I also think it's worth noting that the beams did receive routine maintenance, as you can see by the...interesting paint job. Painting every few years is as much as most steel beams need to stay in good shape.
For now we can only speculate about what caused this bridge to fail. As for replacing it, again we don't know. If it was still owned by ODOT it would be subject to current AASHTO standards and would have to be entirely replaced, including a modern minimum clearance, which would raise May Avenue substantially. None of us know if the city is held to the same standards but our suspicion is no. Raising a bridge is almost always more effective than trying to lower whatever is under it. I won't say it never happens because I suppose anything is possible, but I've never seen it.
TXtoNJ: Personally, I don't think this reflects on the state of Oklahoma. It's a city owned bridge that only reflects the city of OKC. They do not receive state funding to maintain this bridge or stretch of former SH-3. Some cities are doing pretty well at infrastructure maintenance and I don't think it's fair to lump them in with the poor budgeting our state government has done. I will grant you engineering deficiencies. We know a lot more now than we knew in 1952, and we were aware that the bridge was structurally deficient. That doesn't necessarily mean obsolete or dangerous though.
Scott5114: Surprisingly the part of NW Expressway west of SH-74/I-44/Hefner Parkway is still technically SH-3 and under ODOT jurisdiction. As a lifetime resident of OKC that was a bit of a shock to find out yesterday. I know from citizen experience you have to drag ODOT kicking and screaming to do any real maintenance. So I guess it's casually a city road? Common law city road. Something. Also, we hate the stupid sign rule too. I think it's actually a federal thing. But you're right, they do not get reused. And there are heavy penalties if they are caught not destroying those traffic signs. *shrug* Everything else is just trash the contractor has to pay to haul away.
Max R: It took me 48 minutes to go 12 miles across town having to avoid NW Exp. It's typically a 20 minute trip. I really took that road for granted.
US71 and Zeffy: Yeah, that's the name. Whatever it is, it has a jacklift bucket and threw 3/4" ball bearings all over the road.
Mapmikey: That is awesome. Thanks for sharing!
I'm so jealous! I guess I'll have to live out the dream vicariously... :clap: :clap: :clap:
Quote from: Mapmikey on May 20, 2016, 03:42:24 PM
Here is a pic from 1952
http://www.66postcards.com/postcards/ok/OK066100.html
I'm having trouble reconciling the postcard label with the known routes of full US66. The normal route of 66 at that time was west from the State Capitol on 23rd to May, north on May to 39th, then west to Warr Acres and Yukon. IIRC, 66 wasn't moved until the completion of the connector west from Penn Square to 39th St.
Here is what that intersection looked like in May 1954:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7637/27140714915_ff0f1817cb.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HmkfYB)2016-05-20_21-17-45 (https://flic.kr/p/HmkfYB) by rte66man (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rte66man/), on Flickr
Northwest Expressway now open both directions.
Some other old bridges around the state have decorative railing similar to the May Ave. bridge over NW Expressway.
In Lawton, the Cache Road bridges over Fort Sill Blvd have that kind of treatment on the outer sides of each bridge. Both of those bridges are very old. Looking at it in Google Street View you can see a lot of rust creeping out onto the concrete. The "sidewalks" are pretty narrow. Kids walking to school from the nearby neighborhoods to Central Middle School have to cross using those paths. It's a pretty long stroll down Fort Sill Blvd to the nearest crosswalk. US-62 used to be routed along Cache Rd. but now it's merely a very heavily used city street. I guess these bridges might get replaced if a crane truck on Fort Sill Blvd takes them out.
:-P
Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 23, 2016, 11:44:01 AM
Some other old bridges around the state have decorative railing similar to the May Ave. bridge over NW Expressway.
In Lawton, the Cache Road bridges over Fort Sill Blvd have that kind of treatment on the outer sides of each bridge. Both of those bridges are very old. Looking at it in Google Street View you can see a lot of rust creeping out onto the concrete. The "sidewalks" are pretty narrow. Kids walking to school from the nearby neighborhoods to Central Middle School have to cross using those paths. It's a pretty long stroll down Fort Sill Blvd to the nearest crosswalk. US-62 used to be routed along Cache Rd. but now it's merely a very heavily used city street. I guess these bridges might get replaced if a crane truck on Fort Sill Blvd takes them out.
:-P
For some reason I had it fixed in my mind that the decorative railings were replaced by sterile concrete barriers tha last time that bridge was redecked.
I think May and NW Expressway is way too busy an intersection for a roundabout to work. Traffic would be jammed in that area due to all the confused drivers (and fender benders that would likely occur). On top of that at least one or more bridges for pedestrians and bicycles would have to span that mess.
I think maintaining grade-separation is acceptable, but perhaps a smaller junction would do the area well. Something with a couple of roundabouts for May? Maybe a lid? Protected bike lane on west side and new sidewalk on east side for good measure:
(By the way, nothing here is to-scale)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FlA42Amm.png&hash=2d454427c1d0c406bfc6914da33220f71978800a)
Downgrading NW Expressway is a horrific idea. This may not be a state highway, but it's a six-lane arterial and has the traffic to justify it. It carries traffic from the northwest parts of the city that SH-3 serves and helps it continue east by channeling it into eastbound I-44. At the NW Expressway/I-44 junction sits Penn Square Mall and 50 Penn Place, which combined make for one of the area's biggest retail centers and traffic generators.
Something should probably be done with the May interchange, if only because the missing movement hobbles it, and cloverleaves aren't really the best option anyway. I'd like to see a conversion into a SPUI, but there's room for even a diamond if a SPUI is too expensive. There's also the option of making it an at-grade intersection, but leveling out the grade would be almost as costly and disruptive as redoing the interchange would be.
I don't think Oklahoma is ready for a three-lane roundabout yet.
I think May needs to be a six lane street. There are no six lane north to south arterials and the traffic counts are only increasing. Penn should be six lanes around Quail Springs but getting closer to Nichols Hills there is no reason for it to be six lanes as it goes through residential. Same thing with Western. I'm guessing May has higher traffic counts than any of the others?
I think at grade intersections are bad ideas for NW Expressway if it to be left an expressway. Isn't that what function an expressway serves? More limited access control facilities?
I think NW Expressway could also use an added lane each way for BRT only.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 25, 2016, 06:33:43 AM
I think May needs to be a six lane street. There are no six lane north to south arterials and the traffic counts are only increasing. Penn should be six lanes around Quail Springs but getting closer to Nichols Hills there is no reason for it to be six lanes as it goes through residential. Same thing with Western. I'm guessing May has higher traffic counts than any of the others?
I think at grade intersections are bad ideas for NW Expressway if it to be left an expressway. Isn't that what function an expressway serves? More limited access control facilities?
I think NW Expressway could also use an added lane each way for BRT only.
Aren't they planning on using the median for the "future" expansion of the light ail system?
Quote from: jakeroot on May 24, 2016, 07:35:56 PM
I think maintaining grade-separation is acceptable, but perhaps a smaller junction would do the area well. Something with a couple of roundabouts for May? Maybe a lid? Protected bike lane on west side and new sidewalk on east side for good measure:
(By the way, nothing here is to-scale)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FlA42Amm.png&hash=2d454427c1d0c406bfc6914da33220f71978800a)
As much as I would like to see that (or something close to it), OKC does not have the funding available to do it in the next millenium. Maybe a special MAPS 4 project?
Quote from: rte66man on May 26, 2016, 01:05:57 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 25, 2016, 06:33:43 AM
I think May needs to be a six lane street. There are no six lane north to south arterials and the traffic counts are only increasing. Penn should be six lanes around Quail Springs but getting closer to Nichols Hills there is no reason for it to be six lanes as it goes through residential. Same thing with Western. I'm guessing May has higher traffic counts than any of the others?
I think at grade intersections are bad ideas for NW Expressway if it to be left an expressway. Isn't that what function an expressway serves? More limited access control facilities?
I think NW Expressway could also use an added lane each way for BRT only.
Aren't they planning on using the median for the "future" expansion of the light ail system?
I'm not sure. I haven't heard anything about that but I do know this road is in study for BRT but I'm not sure if it will have its own dedicated lane or not. I suspect we will see it on the next bond issue.
2007 GoBond has NW Expressway being widened between Classen and 63 St.