I've traveled from Western NY, thru the Albany congestion enroute to Bennington, VT in the past. I recall that the traffic was heavy, even on weekends, and the exits confusing. Is there a reasonable alternate route coming from Oneonta, NY besides I-88 to I-90 to Rt. 9 to Rt. 7 into Bennington?
Quote from: flyfishingjon on July 14, 2016, 05:07:04 PM
I've traveled from Western NY, thru the Albany congestion enroute to Bennington, VT in the past. I recall that the traffic was heavy, even on weekends, and the exits confusing. Is there a reasonable alternate route coming from Oneonta, NY besides I-88 to I-90 to Rt. 9 to Rt. 7 into Bennington?
Reasonable? No way. Alternate? Yes. Really depends on how far off of busy roads you're willing to get. I live in Troy and can give a couple alternatives.
1. Use NY 2 through Troy. This avoids the mess on NY 7. Get off I-87 at Exit 6, take NY 2 east through Latham Circle, Watervliet, and Troy. Turn left on NY 278 and immediately turn right on Rensselaer CR 129 (Tamarac Rd). Take this to NY 7, turn right, and continue as before. This bypasses the worst of the congestion and it is how I head east in the afternoons to avoid the mess if I have to. There can be congestion along NY 2 in Troy, but it is always better than NY 7. Google maps link (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.4529132,-75.0533537/42.8906762,-73.200308/@42.746509,-73.5802106,15.42z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m10!3m4!1m2!1d-73.7203416!2d42.735308!3s0x89de0e5f7cff0be7:0x804c104bf449d9e2!3m4!1m2!1d-73.6443578!2d42.7305664!3s0x89de057a6fedeb87:0xeb9720cbdd62f0b8!1m0!3e0).
2. Use I-90 through Albany and NY 43/NY 151 to bypass Troy. Take I-90 to Exit 8 (NY 43). Take NY 43 to NY 151 and turn left (north). Take NY 151 to the end, turn left on NY 2, right on NY 278, and make an immediate right on Tamarac Rd, as above. This bypasses I-87 and Troy, but is entirely dependent on how backed up I-90 is at the bridge (often fine, bad if there's an accident). More than 90 percent of the time, this is likely the fastest way during the afternoon. Google Maps link (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.4529132,-75.0533537/42.8906762,-73.200308/@42.6856681,-73.8364063,10.5z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!3m4!1m2!1d-73.5862884!2d42.6546603!3s0x89de06e9441189bf:0x347e6f15580b8ebd!1m0!3e0).
Other than those two, which are less than ~10-15 minutes longer in no traffic, there aren't really any other good alternatives. Everything else brings you through a major congestion point or takes so much longer that you'd be better off sitting in traffic. NY 7 is the choke point and, while traffic is heavy along the entire thing, it is impossible to avoid entirely without taking an extra half hour or more.
Quote from: cl94 on July 14, 2016, 05:34:12 PM
Quote from: flyfishingjon on July 14, 2016, 05:07:04 PM
I've traveled from Western NY, thru the Albany congestion enroute to Bennington, VT in the past. I recall that the traffic was heavy, even on weekends, and the exits confusing. Is there a reasonable alternate route coming from Oneonta, NY besides I-88 to I-90 to Rt. 9 to Rt. 7 into Bennington?
Reasonable? No way. Alternate? Yes. Really depends on how far off of busy roads you're willing to get. I live in Troy and can give a couple alternatives.
1. Use NY 2 through Troy. This avoids the mess on NY 7. Get off I-87 at Exit 6, take NY 2 east through Latham Circle, Watervliet, and Troy. Turn left on NY 278 and immediately turn right on Rensselaer CR 129 (Tamarac Rd). Take this to NY 7, turn right, and continue as before. This bypasses the worst of the congestion and it is how I head east in the afternoons to avoid the mess if I have to. There can be congestion along NY 2 in Troy, but it is always better than NY 7. Google maps link (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.4529132,-75.0533537/42.8906762,-73.200308/@42.746509,-73.5802106,15.42z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m10!3m4!1m2!1d-73.7203416!2d42.735308!3s0x89de0e5f7cff0be7:0x804c104bf449d9e2!3m4!1m2!1d-73.6443578!2d42.7305664!3s0x89de057a6fedeb87:0xeb9720cbdd62f0b8!1m0!3e0).
2. Use I-90 through Albany and NY 43/NY 151 to bypass Troy. Take I-90 to Exit 8 (NY 43). Take NY 43 to NY 151 and turn left (north). Take NY 151 to the end, turn left on NY 2, right on NY 278, and make an immediate right on Tamarac Rd, as above. This bypasses I-87 and Troy, but is entirely dependent on how backed up I-90 is at the bridge (often fine, bad if there's an accident). More than 90 percent of the time, this is likely the fastest way during the afternoon. Google Maps link (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.4529132,-75.0533537/42.8906762,-73.200308/@42.6856681,-73.8364063,10.5z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!3m4!1m2!1d-73.5862884!2d42.6546603!3s0x89de06e9441189bf:0x347e6f15580b8ebd!1m0!3e0).
Other than those two, which are less than ~10-15 minutes longer in no traffic, there aren't really any other good alternatives. Everything else brings you through a major congestion point or takes so much longer that you'd be better off sitting in traffic. NY 7 is the choke point and, while traffic is heavy along the entire thing, it is impossible to avoid entirely without taking an extra half hour or more.
In both cases I would take 278 to get back to 7. At that point it is well past Troy, and I would say 7 is a better road...
Quote from: kalvado on July 14, 2016, 06:06:58 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 14, 2016, 05:34:12 PM
Quote from: flyfishingjon on July 14, 2016, 05:07:04 PM
I've traveled from Western NY, thru the Albany congestion enroute to Bennington, VT in the past. I recall that the traffic was heavy, even on weekends, and the exits confusing. Is there a reasonable alternate route coming from Oneonta, NY besides I-88 to I-90 to Rt. 9 to Rt. 7 into Bennington?
Reasonable? No way. Alternate? Yes. Really depends on how far off of busy roads you're willing to get. I live in Troy and can give a couple alternatives.
1. Use NY 2 through Troy. This avoids the mess on NY 7. Get off I-87 at Exit 6, take NY 2 east through Latham Circle, Watervliet, and Troy. Turn left on NY 278 and immediately turn right on Rensselaer CR 129 (Tamarac Rd). Take this to NY 7, turn right, and continue as before. This bypasses the worst of the congestion and it is how I head east in the afternoons to avoid the mess if I have to. There can be congestion along NY 2 in Troy, but it is always better than NY 7. Google maps link (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.4529132,-75.0533537/42.8906762,-73.200308/@42.746509,-73.5802106,15.42z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m10!3m4!1m2!1d-73.7203416!2d42.735308!3s0x89de0e5f7cff0be7:0x804c104bf449d9e2!3m4!1m2!1d-73.6443578!2d42.7305664!3s0x89de057a6fedeb87:0xeb9720cbdd62f0b8!1m0!3e0).
2. Use I-90 through Albany and NY 43/NY 151 to bypass Troy. Take I-90 to Exit 8 (NY 43). Take NY 43 to NY 151 and turn left (north). Take NY 151 to the end, turn left on NY 2, right on NY 278, and make an immediate right on Tamarac Rd, as above. This bypasses I-87 and Troy, but is entirely dependent on how backed up I-90 is at the bridge (often fine, bad if there's an accident). More than 90 percent of the time, this is likely the fastest way during the afternoon. Google Maps link (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.4529132,-75.0533537/42.8906762,-73.200308/@42.6856681,-73.8364063,10.5z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!3m4!1m2!1d-73.5862884!2d42.6546603!3s0x89de06e9441189bf:0x347e6f15580b8ebd!1m0!3e0).
Other than those two, which are less than ~10-15 minutes longer in no traffic, there aren't really any other good alternatives. Everything else brings you through a major congestion point or takes so much longer that you'd be better off sitting in traffic. NY 7 is the choke point and, while traffic is heavy along the entire thing, it is impossible to avoid entirely without taking an extra half hour or more.
In both cases I would take 278 to get back to 7. At that point it is well past Troy, and I would say 7 is a better road...
That would easily add 15 minutes. 278 is almost due east-west and half of CR 129 was recently resurfaced. There's also a bridge project on NY 7 right now that this bypasses.
We often took NY 67 from Amsterdam to Bennington. It only adds about 15 minutes over the Thruway/Northway/Route 7. Try for a full moon when there's snow on the ground :)
Why not get to NY 2 via I-787 exit 8? NY 7 between I-87 and I-787 may not be free flow, but it's not terribly slow (at least, outside of rush hour, but if you're in rush hour, you've got Northway/Thruway problems to deal with anyways), certainly faster than going through Latham Circle and a zillion lights, some of which back up quite a bit (I've seen the light at Old Loudon Rd back up into the circle before).
Of course, the biggest tip is to avoid the Albany area like the plague during rush hour, which starts as early as 3pm due to the large number of government employees. This is especially true in the morning when Thruway congestion is a huge factor - in the afternoon, most of it can by bypassed EB with the I-90 route.
Quote from: Sam on July 14, 2016, 07:08:53 PM
We often took NY 67 from Amsterdam to Bennington. It only adds about 15 minutes over the Thruway/Northway/Route 7. Try for a full moon when there's snow on the ground :)
He's coming from Oneonta. He'd either have to divert onto NY 30 or backtrack 15 miles of Thruway to get to Amsterdam.
I missed the part about Oneonta, so, yes, NY 30 to NY 67. He'll have to decide for himself about time vs. aggravation I guess :)
Quote from: vdeane on July 14, 2016, 07:11:03 PM
Why not get to NY 2 via I-787 exit 8? NY 7 between I-87 and I-787 may not be free flow, but it's not terribly slow (at least, outside of rush hour, but if you're in rush hour, you've got Northway/Thruway problems to deal with anyways), certainly faster than going through Latham Circle and a zillion lights, some of which back up quite a bit (I've seen the light at Old Loudon Rd back up into the circle before).
Of course, the biggest tip is to avoid the Albany area like the plague during rush hour, which starts as early as 3pm due to the large number of government employees. This is especially true in the morning when Thruway congestion is a huge factor - in the afternoon, most of it can by bypassed EB with the I-90 route.
If they're doing that, get off at Exit 6 (US 9), immediately get off at Northern Boulevard, and follow NY 377 up to NY 378. From there, either hop on I-787 or cut through Troy on local roads. Living in Downtown Troy, that is how I get home during rush hour to avoid the Northway and the NY 7 mess. The I-787 stack is often backed up past US 9 from the EB-NB ramp and getting from Exit 8 to NY 2 is tough in rush hour because you have to turn left off of NY 32 without a protected left turn phase. I have waited at NY 2 for 10-15 minutes to make that left at times.
And I meant NY 351, not NY 151.
I purposely left out I-787 because that is a PITA for the reasons I listed above and, while still faster than taking NY 7 directly, can be bypassed to save an additional 10-15 minutes.
It really comes down to how much you hate sitting in traffic. If you want to get there in the fastest way even accounting for traffic, there's no alternative to going through Albany. I-90 is virtually a requirement, as is passing through Exit 24. Likewise, NY 7 east of about Rensselaer CR 87 can't be avoided without adding a bunch of time.
One thing the OP didn't mention was day of the week or time of day he'd be traveling. That makes a lot of difference. In my own not-small experience, by the time you hit late evening (7pm-ish or later), taking 787 to 7 and sticking with 7 is usually fine, regardless of the day of the week.
Quote from: cl94Quote from: kalvadoIn both cases I would take 278 to get back to 7. At that point it is well past Troy, and I would say 7 is a better road...
That would easily add 15 minutes. 278 is almost due east-west and half of CR 129 was recently resurfaced.
No it wouldn't. Taking 278 to 7 only adds 2 miles and, because of the higher speed limit along 7 and better passing opportunity (such as that is), taking CR 129 over 278/7 is basically a wash. That is, unless you like taking your chances with county cops.
Quote from: froggie on July 14, 2016, 10:38:47 PM
One thing the OP didn't mention was day of the week or time of day he'd be traveling. That makes a lot of difference. In my own not-small experience, by the time you hit late evening (7pm-ish or later), taking 787 to 7 and sticking with 7 is usually fine, regardless of the day of the week.
Quote from: cl94Quote from: kalvadoIn both cases I would take 278 to get back to 7. At that point it is well past Troy, and I would say 7 is a better road...
That would easily add 15 minutes. 278 is almost due east-west and half of CR 129 was recently resurfaced.
No it wouldn't. Taking 278 to 7 only adds 2 miles and, because of the higher speed limit along 7 and better passing opportunity (such as that is), taking CR 129 over 278/7 is basically a wash. That is, unless you like taking your chances with county cops.
If you're able to travel at the speed limit, the time is roughly equal (I have timed it). Good luck at being able to go 55 on NY 7, though, and passing is almost impossible most of the day due to volumes.
I do agree that, after 7 PM, NY 7 is fine. I-87 to NY 7 is faster in clear conditions than using I-787, but watch for cops in the median crossovers. For what it's worth, I travel the NY 7 expressway almost every day and I have only once seen a cop running radar (nowhere for them to safely sit and get a good shot unless there's construction). From about noon to 7 PM, NY 7 EB should be avoided between the Downtown Troy exit and NY 142.
Unless traffic is especially bad on the mainlines on a particular day, it seems to me that any alternative that tries to avoid the obvious major routes is likely to add more time than whatever time you might lose waiting in a little traffic. I guess I just don't see Albany's traffic as being as bad as many here have observed. I've been a Thruway commuter for years (exits 27 to 24) and even at peak rush hour, I rarely find that it takes me more than an extra 10 minutes compared to off-peak free flowing traffic. Just don't get left too soon at 24 and you're good. I find the 25 merge is often the biggest delay and that not usually more than a few minutes.
Disclaimer: my view of Capital District traffic in general is probably far better than those who commute the Twin Bridges.
The rumors of traffic congestion in the Capital District heavy enough to require detours onto local roads are greatly exaggerated.
(At least, headed east-west. There's no way around the rush hour nonsense on I-87 north across the Twin Bridges. Couldn't pay me enough to live in Clifton Park.).
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2016, 09:38:33 AM
The rumors of traffic congestion in the Capital District heavy enough to require detours onto local roads are greatly exaggerated.
(At least, headed east-west. There's no way around the rush hour nonsense on I-87 north across the Twin Bridges. Couldn't pay me enough to live in Clifton Park.).
h
Rt 7 in Troy is another sour point. Street drops to 2 lanes where limited access one could face capacity problems..
Quote from: cl94If you're able to travel at the speed limit, the time is roughly equal (I have timed it). Good luck at being able to go 55 on NY 7, though, and passing is almost impossible most of the day due to volumes.
I've generally found that, outward from Center Brunswick, one can generally maintain at least 45 MPH on 7 even during busy times.
But Jim brings up a good point...I suspect that Jim, Rothman, and I have a higher tolerance for traffic than you younger folks.
Quote from: kalvado on July 15, 2016, 09:50:56 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2016, 09:38:33 AM
The rumors of traffic congestion in the Capital District heavy enough to require detours onto local roads are greatly exaggerated.
(At least, headed east-west. There's no way around the rush hour nonsense on I-87 north across the Twin Bridges. Couldn't pay me enough to live in Clifton Park.).
h
Rt 7 in Troy is another sour point. Street drops to 2 lanes where limited access one could face capacity problems..
Heh. Route 7/Hoosic Street is indeed a pain.
Quote from: froggie on July 15, 2016, 10:02:50 AM
But Jim brings up a good point...I suspect that Jim, Rothman, and I have a higher tolerance for traffic than you younger folks.
I guess I also compare it with big cities I've traveled to or through where what we call a bad traffic day in Albany would be considered cause for celebration. I do agree that Albany has more than its share of minor to moderate trouble spots for a metro area of its size. However, I wouldn't say you need to avoid the area during peak periods the way you'd want to avoid big city rush hours.
Quote from: Jim on July 15, 2016, 08:53:53 AM
Unless traffic is especially bad on the mainlines on a particular day, it seems to me that any alternative that tries to avoid the obvious major routes is likely to add more time than whatever time you might lose waiting in a little traffic. I guess I just don't see Albany's traffic as being as bad as many here have observed. I've been a Thruway commuter for years (exits 27 to 24) and even at peak rush hour, I rarely find that it takes me more than an extra 10 minutes compared to off-peak free flowing traffic. Just don't get left too soon at 24 and you're good. I find the 25 merge is often the biggest delay and that not usually more than a few minutes.
Disclaimer: my view of Capital District traffic in general is probably far better than those who commute the Twin Bridges.
A very good point.
In my carpool, there was 1 guy that would avoid congestion on the highway by taking a whole bunch of side streets. These side streets often had 25 mph speed limits and traffic lights (and some congestion of their own). We would also be zig-zagging our way home, versus going straight on the highway, as the roads weren't exactly parallel to the highway. The result was we were consistently getting home 10 - 15 minutes later when he drove compared to the other carpool drivers who would just stay on the highway, as congestion on the highway rarely averaged driving speeds below 25 mph for any significant time.
He tried saying that at least we were moving. From a psychological standpoint, I know what he was referring to. In a 25 mph zone, we're traveling at or above the speed limit at times, but dealing with traffic lights, traffic circles, turning traffic and other movements that slow down traffic. On the highway where the speed limit is 55 or greater, we're going 30 mph or so...about half the speed limit. It just seemed like we were moving slow, even though in reality we're actually moving faster.
So I agree with a few of the others. Even dealing with some minor congestion on the highway is probably going to produce a faster overall drive time vs. trying to find every other highway and local roadway that would take you miles longer. If there's a fairly direct route that takes you to your destination, that's fine. But don't add 20 minutes of drive time to avoid 5 minutes of congestion!
Depends on time of year too, at least for the Northway. My commute is fine in winter but congested in summer (granted, the area around the Twin Bridges is bad year round, but I get off before then).
That said, I generally don't divert to avoid traffic. Usually it's a wash between the Northway and parallel local roads once you factor in traffic lights and dealing with the queue to get on the Northway. The Northway usually at least moves even when it's bad, which is more than can be said for the lights at the interchange at Albany-Shaker Rd, which one MUST pass through if they're traveling in that general direction no matter what... there is no bypass.
I actually have a decent tolerance for traffic, but half an hour from the bridge to Center Brunswick is ridiculous, as it can be avoided with under 5 minutes of extra drive time in clear conditions. Likewise, coming from Troy, I often bypass the Northway mess by cutting up to Exit 8A on Middletown Rd. In traffic, time is actually slightly less.
For my main commute, I take 295. I have the parallel Turnpike right next to it. But unless there's severe congestion, as in 295 is closed congestion, the time for me in rush hour traffic to get from 295 to the Turnpike, get off the turnpike, sit in that congestion, and take roads back to 295 or work or home, it just doesn't work out in my favor. Especially when I get to pay for the privilege of sitting in that additional traffic.
Sure, there's days where I don't have any issues with it, and it was the faster alternative. But there's no real way in advance to know that, and even if I do find out how traffic is, what I know at 4:30 can change drastically by 5:00, and what was smooth sailing can bottleneck up real quick.
Regarding getting through Troy, as mentioned by others, the Congress St/Route 2 option over Hoosick St/Route 7 can be a big win and it's not much slower even if 7 is free and clear. I'd recommend it. Since I'd normally be coming in on "Alternate 7", I take at right at the foot of the Collar City Bridge and cut across to 2 there. Hoosick/7 is can be one of the most frustrating stretches in the Albany area between the lights and potential for trucks unable to get any momentum up the hill out of Troy.
Quote from: Jim on July 15, 2016, 02:49:42 PM
Regarding getting through Troy, as mentioned by others, the Congress St/Route 2 option over Hoosick St/Route 7 can be a big win and it's not much slower even if 7 is free and clear. I'd recommend it. Since I'd normally be coming in on "Alternate 7", I take at right at the foot of the Collar City Bridge and cut across to 2 there. Hoosick/7 is can be one of the most frustrating stretches in the Albany area between the lights and potential for trucks unable to get any momentum up the hill out of Troy.
This. Ever since they synced the lights on Congress/Ferry for a green wave, the left from 6th onto Ferry/NY 2 EB is pretty easy. A decent amount of it between the east city line and 278 is 55 as well. Even at 1 PM today, it took me 20 minutes to get from 15th to Burger King along 7. It only gets worse as the day progresses. The trucks, lack of a left turn lane on the hill, and lane drop at the east city line create what is possibly the worst daily traffic jam in the Albany area, definitely worse than the Twin Bridges (at least that is typically moving, even if at 10 mph). From 278, cut up to 7 as you please.
Folks, thank you very much for ALL of the options! I won't be in a hurry, I just want to make sure that I don't miss any exits, ramps, turns, etc. due to heavy traffic. I will study the suggestions and try my best to slide through there at non-peak peak times. Thanks again!
If you're not in a hurry, stick with Route 2 all the way to Williamstown then take US 7 up to Bennington. Petersburg Pass is a great drive!
Quote from: Jim on July 15, 2016, 08:06:21 PM
If you're not in a hurry, stick with Route 2 all the way to Williamstown then take US 7 up to Bennington. Petersburg Pass is a great drive!
I agree. Adds half an hour (at least), but the scenery is amazing.
Thanks, Jim. I'll be going through from Oneonta east on a Sunday at around 3 p.m. My return trip to Oneonta coming from VT east will be on a Tuesday or Wednesday at around noon.. I'm hoping that those days/times are lower in traffic.
Thanks to Josh as well! Hopefully I'll talk my wife into driving while I navigate ( and enjoy the scenery)!
I'd take 2 EB to avoid the nonsense on the upgrade no matter what time of day unless you're specifically planning to stop for food east of Troy, but you should be fine taking 7 back. Ride the right lane in Troy so you don't get stuck behind people making left turns. I will warn you that the Massachusetts side has a painfully low speed limit that varies between 25 and 40 and it is enforced. If you want a good picture, there's a pull-out at the top of the pass.
And no problem. I have to deal with the Troy traffic every day as I live here. You learn many ways to get around it and all are much better than spending half an hour sitting on that hill. Part of the fun of living on the side of a valley.
If you want to avoid traffic on road trips, you need to stop driving during the day.
Thanks again, cl94, I will indeed take your suggestions. I hope to drive straight through without any stops.
cl94, if I opt to take Tamarac Road off of 287 EB to rt. 7, it looks like that road, though tertiary, does not have any stop and go sections through towns, correct?
Quote from: flyfishingjon on July 16, 2016, 09:23:00 AM
cl94, if I opt to take Tamarac Road off of 287 EB to rt. 7, it looks like that road, though tertiary, does not have any stop and go sections through towns, correct?
No. There's a 35 section at the west end and a short 40 section, but the rest is 45 or higher.
Quote from: 8.Lug on July 16, 2016, 01:04:22 AM
If you want to avoid traffic on road trips, you need to stop driving during the day.
Albany rush hour traffic is extreme. It was stop and go all the way from I-90 beyond the Twin Bridges yesterday when I drove home from work. Took me 20 minutes longer to get home than it would have in winter, and my commute is only 7 miles each way. This is because the Northway is a funnel from tourists coming from Boston, New York City, and Syracuse, and because of a large amount of growth in Clifton Park in the last couple decades (similar growth in Rotterdam is fueling the Thruway backups).
Quote from: vdeane on July 16, 2016, 06:02:32 PM
Quote from: 8.Lug on July 16, 2016, 01:04:22 AM
If you want to avoid traffic on road trips, you need to stop driving during the day.
Albany rush hour traffic is extreme. It was stop and go all the way from I-90 beyond the Twin Bridges yesterday when I drove home from work. Took me 20 minutes longer to get home than it would have in winter, and my commute is only 7 miles each way. This is because the Northway is a funnel from tourists coming from Boston, New York City, and Syracuse, and because of a large amount of growth in Clifton Park in the last couple decades (similar growth in Rotterdam is fueling the Thruway backups).
Yesterday had a bunch of accidents. There was a multi-car accident at Exit 8A that I drove past at 6 heading SB. Heck, NB was bad at 3 and backed up along 7 to past the pull-out (usually doesn't get bad until 4), so I bailed off of 7 at US 9 and noticed on Waze that there was a major accident at the bridge.
The tourists always seen to be getting into accidents; our accident rate is much lower in winter (outside of storms). The one on the bridge was SB, so it shouldn't have been affecting NB in theory, but we all know how inconsiderate people are about driving by accidents. Even minor fender benders cause stop and go (plus the idiots don't know that it's slow down OR move over, not slow down AND move over).
Quote from: vdeane on July 16, 2016, 06:31:52 PM
The tourists always seen to be getting into accidents; our accident rate is much lower in winter (outside of storms). The one on the bridge was SB, so it shouldn't have been affecting NB in theory, but we all know how inconsiderate people are about driving by accidents. Even minor fender benders cause stop and go (plus the idiots don't know that it's slow down OR move over, not slow down AND move over).
Whatever it was, I got on at Exit 8 and there was no traffic whatsoever.
Quote from: vdeane on July 16, 2016, 06:31:52 PM
The tourists always seen to be getting into accidents; our accident rate is much lower in winter (outside of storms). The one on the bridge was SB, so it shouldn't have been affecting NB in theory, but we all know how inconsiderate people are about driving by accidents. Even minor fender benders cause stop and go (plus the idiots don't know that it's slow down OR move over, not slow down AND move over).
NYS law is move over - or slow down
and move over anyway.
They should change it to match the nationwide standard then. The idea of allowing people to slow down instead is to give people a way through if there isn't an opportunity to move over. That would prevent the jams for even minor traffic stops. We seriously need a "drivers first" initiative for law enforcement.
Move over laws are nothing more than yet another example of dumbing down the roads because people can't drive.
Quote from: vdeane on July 17, 2016, 03:30:39 PM
They should change it to match the nationwide standard then. The idea of allowing people to slow down instead is to give people a way through if there isn't an opportunity to move over. That would prevent the jams for even minor traffic stops. We seriously need a "drivers first" initiative for law enforcement.
Move over laws are nothing more than yet another example of dumbing down the roads because people can't drive.
It's "or". I checked.
Here's the law in full. In fact, It is pretty specific that motor vehicle operators must exercise due care when approaching a cop or other emergency vehicle, and in multilane roads one should move over. I don't see anything specifically about slowing down. Exercising due care may include slowing down, but it also allows for moving over to accomplish meeting the requirements of the law.
Thus, there's no moving over AND slowing down, but rather moving over and/or doing what else is necessary to exercise due care.
Quote
ยง 1144-a. Operation of vehicles when approaching a parked, stopped or
standing authorized emergency vehicle or hazard vehicle. (a) Every
operator of a motor vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid colliding
with an authorized emergency vehicle which is parked, stopped or
standing on the shoulder or any portion of such highway and such
authorized emergency vehicle is displaying one or more red or
combination red and white lights pursuant to the provisions of paragraph
two of subdivision forty-one of section three hundred seventy-five of
this chapter or is displaying one or more blue, combination blue and red
or combination blue, red and white lights pursuant to the provisions of
subparagraph b of paragraph four of subdivision forty-one of section
three hundred seventy-five of this chapter. For operators of motor
vehicles on parkways or controlled access highways, such due care shall
include, but not be limited to, moving from a lane which contains or is
immediately adjacent to the shoulder where such authorized emergency
vehicle displaying one or more red, blue or white or any combination of
red and white lights or blue or combination blue and red or combination
blue, red and white lights pursuant to the provisions of paragraph two
or subparagraph b of paragraph four, as applicable of subdivision
forty-one of section three hundred seventy-five of this chapter is
parked, stopped or standing to another lane, provided that such movement
otherwise complies with the requirements of this chapter including, but
not limited to, the provisions of sections eleven hundred ten of this
title and eleven hundred twenty-eight of this title.
(b) Every operator of a motor vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid
colliding with a hazard vehicle which is parked, stopped or standing on
the shoulder or on any portion of such highway and such hazard vehicle
is displaying one or more amber lights pursuant to the provisions of
paragraph three of subdivision forty-one of section three hundred
seventy-five of this chapter. For operators of motor vehicles on
parkways or controlled access highways, such due care shall include, but
not be limited to, moving from a lane which contains or is immediately
adjacent to the shoulder where such hazard vehicle displaying one or
more amber lights pursuant to the provisions of paragraph three of
subdivision forty-one of section three hundred seventy-five of this
chapter is parked, stopped or standing to another lane, provided that
such movement otherwise complies with the requirements of this chapter
including, but not limited to, the provisions of sections eleven hundred
ten and eleven hundred twenty-eight of this title.
Quote from: cl94 on July 17, 2016, 05:22:56 PM
Quote from: vdeane on July 17, 2016, 03:30:39 PM
They should change it to match the nationwide standard then. The idea of allowing people to slow down instead is to give people a way through if there isn't an opportunity to move over. That would prevent the jams for even minor traffic stops. We seriously need a "drivers first" initiative for law enforcement.
Move over laws are nothing more than yet another example of dumbing down the roads because people can't drive.
It's "or". I checked.
Is there a history of the V&T law available? I remember completely different phrasing than the current version. And even current version is written in an interesting way...
Quote from: kalvado on July 17, 2016, 05:56:09 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 17, 2016, 05:22:56 PM
Quote from: vdeane on July 17, 2016, 03:30:39 PM
They should change it to match the nationwide standard then. The idea of allowing people to slow down instead is to give people a way through if there isn't an opportunity to move over. That would prevent the jams for even minor traffic stops. We seriously need a "drivers first" initiative for law enforcement.
Move over laws are nothing more than yet another example of dumbing down the roads because people can't drive.
It's "or". I checked.
Is there a history of the V&T law available? I remember completely different phrasing than the current version. And even current version is written in an interesting way...
Probably, but it wouldn't be called a "move over" law if that part was optional.
Quote from: cl94 on July 17, 2016, 10:24:10 PM
Quote from: kalvado on July 17, 2016, 05:56:09 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 17, 2016, 05:22:56 PM
Quote from: vdeane on July 17, 2016, 03:30:39 PM
They should change it to match the nationwide standard then. The idea of allowing people to slow down instead is to give people a way through if there isn't an opportunity to move over. That would prevent the jams for even minor traffic stops. We seriously need a "drivers first" initiative for law enforcement.
Move over laws are nothing more than yet another example of dumbing down the roads because people can't drive.
It's "or". I checked.
Is there a history of the V&T law available? I remember completely different phrasing than the current version. And even current version is written in an interesting way...
Probably, but it wouldn't be called a "move over" law if that part was optional.
Don't look for logic when it comes to things like NYS legislature.
QuoteThe New York "move over" law was named for Onondaga County Sheriff Deputy Glenn Searles and State Trooper Robert Ambrose, who both lost their lives responding to roadside emergencies.
One of those accidents is a direct result of move over attempt:
QuoteTrooper Ambrose was writing an accident report for a minor accident when the driver of a vehicle attempted to switch lanes, struck another vehicle, and then veered onto the shoulder and struck the rear of Trooper Ambrose's Ford Crown Victoria.
(+icy road)
The other is drunk driving accident. None of those are actually addressed by the law..
The "move over" branding wasn't invented by the NYS legislature, but by the police unions. Of course, the law is simplified when given to the press. Incidentally, NY was one of the last states to get a move over law. The incidents were probably just an excuse to shove through what they wanted anyways.
http://www.moveoveramerica.com/
It's worth noting that every "state law" sign for the law says "move over for stopped emergency vehicle", saying nothing about the need to slow down.
I was recently in the Lake George area and I do have to say that the transition from I-87 northway to the Thruway almost caught me off-guard. First, it's only one lane to get you onto I-90 or I-87 south. It's a sharp turn and then you hit the tollbooths.
It would be nice if the highway department could create direct ramps from the Northway to the Thruway southbound (and from the Thruway to the Northway northbound) without having to use I-90. If there is no room for tollbooths, they could create E-Z Pass only ramps.
Quote from: mrsman on July 26, 2016, 09:48:57 AM
I was recently in the Lake George area and I do have to say that the transition from I-87 northway to the Thruway almost caught me off-guard. First, it's only one lane to get you onto I-90 or I-87 south. It's a sharp turn and then you hit the tollbooths.
It would be nice if the highway department could create direct ramps from the Northway to the Thruway southbound (and from the Thruway to the Northway northbound) without having to use I-90. If there is no room for tollbooths, they could create E-Z Pass only ramps.
There's a reason why somebody posts that idea or a variation on the fictional thread at least once a month. People unfamiliar with the area quite often move over 3-4 lanes south of Exit 2 to continue on I-87. It is not uncommon for that ramp to back up to Exit 4, either. It is rumored that NYSTA has an E-ZPass ramp in long-term plans, but that would be a mess if they don't channelize things to prevent people from Free 90 from using the ramp.
The dissatisfaction with that intersection is quite frequent amongst employees at NYSDOT.
One could make a convincing argument that it is the worst system interchange in Upstate New York. What's sad is that the original interchange was much worse (http://historicaerials.com?layer=T1982&zoom=15&lat=42.69678809529943&lon=-73.84190082550047), but the population surge the area has seen over the past 15 years certainly hasn't helped matters. Traffic is much worse now than it was when I was little and that was before most of the tech companies set up shop in Malta, practically in the bedroom communities.
Quote from: Rothman on July 27, 2016, 10:48:22 PM
The dissatisfaction with that intersection is quite frequent amongst employees at NYSDOT.
As far as I know, one of big things is a design flaw of I-87 south ramp towards Thruway. Ramp curvature is too high for the speed, so a clot is deliberately created as a way to slow down traffic to avoid accidents. Any talk about redesigning that ramp to full 2-lane 55 MPH operation? As far as I understand, should be doable with reasonable costs..
Quote from: kalvado on July 28, 2016, 04:22:21 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 27, 2016, 10:48:22 PM
The dissatisfaction with that intersection is quite frequent amongst employees at NYSDOT.
Any talk about redesigning that ramp to full 2-lane 55 MPH operation?
No.
Given the Thruway toll plaza is barely 600ft past the ramp merge, I don't see where making it a 55 MPH ramp would be sane. Even if the Thruway were to convert to AET, you'd barely have a quarter-mile between the ramp merge and the Thruway ramp split, with a lot of weaving there.
Quote from: froggie on July 28, 2016, 10:21:32 AM
Given the Thruway toll plaza is barely 600ft past the ramp merge, I don't see where making it a 55 MPH ramp would be sane. Even if the Thruway were to convert to AET, you'd barely have a quarter-mile between the ramp merge and the Thruway ramp split, with a lot of weaving there.
Its a bit of convoluted issue.
As far as I understand, ramp was built as a high speed 2-lane ramp, with 3 lanes (I-90 east, Thruway, and option lane) at the exit. Other ramp to I-90E is sort of hairy at 55 MPH, but doesn't have too many accidents.
Long straight ramp to Thruway with a sharper curve and toll right after merge resulted in significant number of accidents - mostly involving trucks, as far as I understood. SO ramp was reduced to 1 lane by pavement marks - and vehicles have more room to recover if coming with excess speed. Cost is - well, it is 1 lane at all times, and that single lane often moves at 15-20 MPH.
I would say solution have to be two-fold: make curve less harsh (and looks like there is enough space for that, it is really about a small patch of grass), and slowing down traffic - maybe some "toll ahead - slow down" and "EZpass booths 20 MPH limit" signs would work as ramp heads directly into toll anyway.
Actually there are 2 more locations nearby with similar problem due to same design pattern. One has much lower traffic and works sort of fine, another has same backup issue, exaggerated by poor lane management. Talk about one engineer leaving landmarks to be blamed for decades to come.
Quote from: kalvado on July 28, 2016, 11:00:01 AM
Actually there are 2 more locations nearby with similar problem due to same design pattern. One has much lower traffic and works sort of fine, another has same backup issue, exaggerated by poor lane management. Talk about one engineer leaving landmarks to be blamed for decades to come.
Same design as Exit 24/Exit 1? Which locations are you thinking about?
Quote from: Rothman on July 28, 2016, 12:04:02 PM
Quote from: kalvado on July 28, 2016, 11:00:01 AM
Actually there are 2 more locations nearby with similar problem due to same design pattern. One has much lower traffic and works sort of fine, another has same backup issue, exaggerated by poor lane management. Talk about one engineer leaving landmarks to be blamed for decades to come.
Same design as Exit 24/Exit 1? Which locations are you thinking about?
I am thinking ramp I87 exit 2W as a carbon copy and somewhat similar southern terminus of 787 (with attempted correction of sharp curve, though)
From western NY, I'd get off around Amsterdam, then take NY 67 through Ballston Spa, and Mechanicville. Those would be the only choke points, other than a few other small villages east of Mechanicville, and you are through them before you blink anyway. You'll get to experience Malta, which I'm sure holds the record for the most round abouts per square mile. If you're a rail geek too, there's the benefit of following the Boston and Maine/Pan Am.
Quote from: Conn. Roads on November 24, 2018, 08:43:40 PM
From western NY, I'd get off around Amsterdam, then take NY 67 through Ballston Spa, and Mechanicville. Those would be the only choke points, other than a few other small villages east of Mechanicville, and you are through them before you blink anyway. You'll get to experience Malta, which I'm sure holds the record for the most round abouts per square mile. If you're a rail geek too, there's the benefit of following the Boston and Maine/Pan Am.
You're over two years late.
From what I've heard, Carmel, IN has Malta beat by quite a bit. They have over 100 roundabouts.
Quote from: vdeane on November 25, 2018, 07:21:11 PM
From what I've heard, Carmel, IN has Malta beat by quite a bit. They have over 100 roundabouts.
Who pushed for all of those? They look decent, I wonder how they function.
Quote from: Buffaboy on November 26, 2018, 12:17:15 AM
Quote from: vdeane on November 25, 2018, 07:21:11 PM
From what I've heard, Carmel, IN has Malta beat by quite a bit. They have over 100 roundabouts.
Who pushed for all of those? They look decent, I wonder how they function.
So-so. One of those circles made it into a top 20 crash list in the area.
It was quite early push, almost late 1990s, I believe.