Another thing that I've always been curious about is how many roads out there split into two or more directions while keeping the same name/number? For example, in Limrock (Jackson County), AL, you have CR 119 that splits at a railroad crossing before intersecting AL 35, due to the terrain in the area, with both legs of the split being on CR 119:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.6723966,-86.1888219,218m/data=!3m1!1e3
However, in finding locations where this happens, the guideline I use is that
the road in question must split in two or more directions without changing prefix/suffix, and allow two way traffic on all legs. This means that the following are not allowed:
- Routes that have a business/alternate/spur route break off of them
- Suffixed routes that both split from the main route (like I-35E and I-35W and I-35)
- Roads that have one leg of the split get a different name or suffix (like a 12th Street splitting into 12th Street and 12th Avenue)
- Routes that have the highway number split onto two separate roads due to one or more being one-way (like US 431 in Guntersville, AL)
- Roads that have a median or traffic island where one or more sides are one-way
Historically, IL-172 split into three branches, one south, one east, and one west. It was truncated to just the south and east branches.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Route_172
M-108 in Mackinaw City used to be "3-legged".
There are a fair number of 3xx routes in Virginia that do this...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vahighways.com%2Ferrors%2F358error.jpg&hash=c178e24c85d6b0773b94d422334cae2796a7efa2)
arrow under the shield is backwards
I-465 around Indy used to be such, at the Northwest corner, with I-465 West continuing due West to I-65 North, and I-465 South turning South for the West Leg of the Indy Beltway
That I-465 East/West leg has since been renumbered as I-865
I have a feeling this one won't fly on some technicality, but doesn't I-95/NJ Turnpike split into two separate Roadways near the Meadowlands and the Lincoln Tunnel? Its not suffixed on Google Maps, but I have a feeling it probably is officially, somewhere, or only one leg is officially I-95 or something or other
NY 52 on both sides of US 209 in Ellenville is signed and state-maintained in both directions on Center St and Canal St. Reference markers list both as NY 52, but with Center as the "main" leg. This is the only instance of this in the state that I know of, as most wyes and splits are officially reference routes (even if signed as the main route).
Does AL-126 count? Two-way traffic on both sides of I-85 between exits 11 and 16.
Do Upper Wacker Dr and Lower Wacker Dr count in Downtown Chicago? Both segments do have 2 Way traffic -- its just split as a Double Decker! I guess Upper and Lower may be prefixes, tho I'm not sure Postal Addresses of the buildings Downtown specify Upper vs Lower -- Upper vs Lower may very well be just for navigational purposes -- but I confess I am not sure
CR 44 at US 441 E of Leesburg FL. Its this was cause CR 44 is extended over OLD US 441. The eastern leg is signed "CR 44 LEG A"
Map: https://www.google.com/maps/@28.8335552,-81.8198492,16z (https://www.google.com/maps/@28.8335552,-81.8198492,16z)
Sign:https://www.google.com/maps/@28.8337464,-81.8252858,3a,27.2y,141.67h,89.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sj10OvWrMurV1fCfPT8lqAA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@28.8337464,-81.8252858,3a,27.2y,141.67h,89.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sj10OvWrMurV1fCfPT8lqAA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Virginia secondary route 613 in Fairfax County splits into two routes for its southern end (really "southern ends," I guess). It comes south from the City of Alexandria on Van Dorn Street. At Franconia Road (secondary route 644), one part of Route 613 continues straight ahead down Van Dorn to end at Telegraph Road (secondary route 611), while the other part of 613 goes right (west) a short distance down 644, then turns left (south) on Beulah Street and down to Telegraph Road some distance southwest of the other Route 613. I'm not sure whether the route number continues past there because the road enters Fort Belvoir and the Army decided to block it off from general public use after 9-11.
I-95 on the NJ Turnpike. The Eastern and Western Spurs are both considered I-95.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 30, 2017, 10:46:49 PM
I-95 on the NJ Turnpike. The Eastern and Western Spurs are both considered I-95.
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 30, 2017, 08:39:57 PM
I have a feeling this one won't fly on some technicality, but doesn't I-95/NJ Turnpike split into two separate Roadways near the Meadowlands and the Lincoln Tunnel? Its not suffixed on Google Maps, but I have a feeling it probably is officially, somewhere, or only one leg is officially I-95 or something or other
Beat ya to it, but I think that does qualify, unless it officially doesn't, for some reason or another
OR 223. It has a northern and eastern terminus both connecting to OR 22.
Quote from: bdmoss88 on August 30, 2017, 10:06:05 PM
Does AL-126 count? Two-way traffic on both sides of I-85 between exits 11 and 16.
Not really, as it turns to cross I-85 at where US 80 gets off of I-85:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/AL-126,+Montgomery,+AL+36117/@32.3679236,-86.0540575,1241m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x888c2df5c58122b3:0xb59b097feaa9fe30!8m2!3d32.3662243!4d-86.0944382
Had it also continued down US 80 while doing that double-back, it would've counted.
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 30, 2017, 10:19:53 PM
Do Upper Wacker Dr and Lower Wacker Dr count in Downtown Chicago? Both segments do have 2 Way traffic -- its just split as a Double Decker! I guess Upper and Lower may be prefixes, tho I'm not sure Postal Addresses of the buildings Downtown specify Upper vs Lower -- Upper vs Lower may very well be just for navigational purposes -- but I confess I am not sure
I guess that depends on if the postal addresses specify upper or lower in the road name. If they don't, then I'd say it counts...
In Oklahoma, SH-63A, SH-77D, and SH-77S all do this. 77S has four termini.
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 30, 2017, 10:48:36 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 30, 2017, 10:46:49 PM
I-95 on the NJ Turnpike. The Eastern and Western Spurs are both considered I-95.
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 30, 2017, 08:39:57 PM
I have a feeling this one won't fly on some technicality, but doesn't I-95/NJ Turnpike split into two separate Roadways near the Meadowlands and the Lincoln Tunnel? Its not suffixed on Google Maps, but I have a feeling it probably is officially, somewhere, or only one leg is officially I-95 or something or other
Beat ya to it, but I think that does qualify, unless it officially doesn't, for some reason or another
Dammit...that's what I get for skimming!
Even if there's a technicality, which may be shown in the NJ Straight Line Diagrams, for the purposes of this thread that shouldn't matter because general road users aren't going to be researching NJDOT documents to see how they designate it.
For that matter, I-95 both North and South of Trenton are on different alignments. On the SLDs, 95 North is coded differently than the NJ Turnpike, but no road user would ever know that.
I believe the north end of US 283 in Lexington, NE does this.
CR 516 in Matawan, New Jersey. Eastbound traffic is routed along Broad Street and westbound traffic is routed along Main Street, but both are two-way.
I-270 at the Capital Beltway does this, and the western part of the fork is even labeled a Spur. Same goes for I-895 south of Baltimore.
Quote from: cl94 on August 30, 2017, 09:48:52 PM
NY 52 on both sides of US 209 in Ellenville is signed and state-maintained in both directions on Center St and Canal St. Reference markers list both as NY 52, but with Center as the "main" leg. This is the only instance of this in the state that I know of, as most wyes and splits are officially reference routes (even if signed as the main route).
Is it? It's signed as CR 52 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7211034,-74.4036205,3a,75y,152.12h,75.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s79KN7_SwFjAU7bWFiUzuGA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in at least one place, and RIS doesn't even show it as a state route. It's possible that we're looking at some erroneous signage on/near US 209.
Quote from: vdeane on August 31, 2017, 12:50:11 PM
Quote from: cl94 on August 30, 2017, 09:48:52 PM
NY 52 on both sides of US 209 in Ellenville is signed and state-maintained in both directions on Center St and Canal St. Reference markers list both as NY 52, but with Center as the "main" leg. This is the only instance of this in the state that I know of, as most wyes and splits are officially reference routes (even if signed as the main route).
Is it? It's signed as CR 52 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7211034,-74.4036205,3a,75y,152.12h,75.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s79KN7_SwFjAU7bWFiUzuGA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in at least one place, and RIS doesn't even show it as a state route. It's possible that we're looking at some erroneous signage on/near US 209.
CR 52 is Ulster Heights Rd and a couple of the NYSDOT reports list both as NY 52. Reference markers exist (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7195597,-74.3988364,3a,15y,324.86h,85.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSOSXgyAOAe34RI89830IQw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), with a V in the second space of the third line. Keeping it weird, WB through traffic defaults onto Canal, while EB defaults to Center. Now I'm really curious, because everything on the ground would indicate NYSDOT maintenance, including the NYSDOT salt trucks I have seen working Canal.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on August 30, 2017, 11:56:37 PM
OR 223. It has a northern and eastern terminus both connecting to OR 22.
checking the underlying highway numbers, main branch of OR 223 is ORH 189 and the Rickreall branch is ORH 191. I believe ODOT considers this to be OR 223S but doesn't sign it this way, otherwise it'd be ORH 189Y.
Quote from: cl94 on August 31, 2017, 08:24:42 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 31, 2017, 12:50:11 PM
Quote from: cl94 on August 30, 2017, 09:48:52 PM
NY 52 on both sides of US 209 in Ellenville is signed and state-maintained in both directions on Center St and Canal St. Reference markers list both as NY 52, but with Center as the "main" leg. This is the only instance of this in the state that I know of, as most wyes and splits are officially reference routes (even if signed as the main route).
Is it? It's signed as CR 52 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7211034,-74.4036205,3a,75y,152.12h,75.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s79KN7_SwFjAU7bWFiUzuGA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in at least one place, and RIS doesn't even show it as a state route. It's possible that we're looking at some erroneous signage on/near US 209.
CR 52 is Ulster Heights Rd and a couple of the NYSDOT reports list both as NY 52. Reference markers exist (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7195597,-74.3988364,3a,15y,324.86h,85.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSOSXgyAOAe34RI89830IQw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), with a V in the second space of the third line. Keeping it weird, WB through traffic defaults onto Canal, while EB defaults to Center. Now I'm really curious, because everything on the ground would indicate NYSDOT maintenance, including the NYSDOT salt trucks I have seen working Canal.
Only other thing I can think of is that the streets might have been a one-way pair (which would be consistent with RIS and the Traffic Data Viewer; if Canal was treated as the opposite direction of Central, it wouldn't have inventory data of its own).
LA 815 splits as it approaches its junction with LA 147 south of Arcadia. The roads go around a church & cemetery.
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.4965057,-92.8658932,0a,75y,128.22h,94.4t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sQCTGOiZZa814h6vhwDLQvA!2e0 Check out 1435 LA-815 Shared via the #StreetView app
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 30, 2017, 10:48:36 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 30, 2017, 10:46:49 PM
I-95 on the NJ Turnpike. The Eastern and Western Spurs are both considered I-95.
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 30, 2017, 08:39:57 PM
I have a feeling this one won't fly on some technicality, but doesn't I-95/NJ Turnpike split into two separate Roadways near the Meadowlands and the Lincoln Tunnel? Its not suffixed on Google Maps, but I have a feeling it probably is officially, somewhere, or only one leg is officially I-95 or something or other
Beat ya to it, but I think that does qualify, unless it officially doesn't, for some reason or another
IIRC the eastern branch is the true I-95 and the western branch is internally Route 95W. The NJ Turnpike name, however, is constant, I believe.
Similarly, the segment of free I-95 in NJ north of Trenton is Route 95M.
Quote from: vdeane on August 31, 2017, 10:05:11 PM
Quote from: cl94 on August 31, 2017, 08:24:42 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 31, 2017, 12:50:11 PM
Quote from: cl94 on August 30, 2017, 09:48:52 PM
NY 52 on both sides of US 209 in Ellenville is signed and state-maintained in both directions on Center St and Canal St. Reference markers list both as NY 52, but with Center as the "main" leg. This is the only instance of this in the state that I know of, as most wyes and splits are officially reference routes (even if signed as the main route).
Is it? It's signed as CR 52 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7211034,-74.4036205,3a,75y,152.12h,75.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s79KN7_SwFjAU7bWFiUzuGA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in at least one place, and RIS doesn't even show it as a state route. It's possible that we're looking at some erroneous signage on/near US 209.
CR 52 is Ulster Heights Rd and a couple of the NYSDOT reports list both as NY 52. Reference markers exist (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7195597,-74.3988364,3a,15y,324.86h,85.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSOSXgyAOAe34RI89830IQw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), with a V in the second space of the third line. Keeping it weird, WB through traffic defaults onto Canal, while EB defaults to Center. Now I'm really curious, because everything on the ground would indicate NYSDOT maintenance, including the NYSDOT salt trucks I have seen working Canal.
Only other thing I can think of is that the streets might have been a one-way pair (which would be consistent with RIS and the Traffic Data Viewer; if Canal was treated as the opposite direction of Central, it wouldn't have inventory data of its own).
Yes, Ellenville is officially a one-way couplet of NY 52; the V in reference markers is used to denote this. I think it's the only such example in the state–there are other one-way couplets, but they tend to be locally-maintained and thus don't get reference markers. And what's weird in Ellenville is that the one-way couplet applies only to the route
designation, not to the actuall streets it follows, which are two-way.
Quote from: Henry on August 31, 2017, 09:29:03 AM
I-270 at the Capital Beltway does this, and the western part of the fork is even labeled a Spur. Same goes for I-895 south of Baltimore.
that piece should be i-97
Quote from: empirestate on September 01, 2017, 08:47:09 AM
Quote from: vdeane on August 31, 2017, 10:05:11 PM
Quote from: cl94 on August 31, 2017, 08:24:42 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 31, 2017, 12:50:11 PM
Quote from: cl94 on August 30, 2017, 09:48:52 PM
NY 52 on both sides of US 209 in Ellenville is signed and state-maintained in both directions on Center St and Canal St. Reference markers list both as NY 52, but with Center as the "main" leg. This is the only instance of this in the state that I know of, as most wyes and splits are officially reference routes (even if signed as the main route).
Is it? It's signed as CR 52 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7211034,-74.4036205,3a,75y,152.12h,75.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s79KN7_SwFjAU7bWFiUzuGA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in at least one place, and RIS doesn't even show it as a state route. It's possible that we're looking at some erroneous signage on/near US 209.
CR 52 is Ulster Heights Rd and a couple of the NYSDOT reports list both as NY 52. Reference markers exist (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7195597,-74.3988364,3a,15y,324.86h,85.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSOSXgyAOAe34RI89830IQw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), with a V in the second space of the third line. Keeping it weird, WB through traffic defaults onto Canal, while EB defaults to Center. Now I'm really curious, because everything on the ground would indicate NYSDOT maintenance, including the NYSDOT salt trucks I have seen working Canal.
Only other thing I can think of is that the streets might have been a one-way pair (which would be consistent with RIS and the Traffic Data Viewer; if Canal was treated as the opposite direction of Central, it wouldn't have inventory data of its own).
Yes, Ellenville is officially a one-way couplet of NY 52; the V in reference markers is used to denote this. I think it's the only such example in the state–there are other one-way couplets, but they tend to be locally-maintained and thus don't get reference markers. And what's weird in Ellenville is that the one-way couplet applies only to the route designation, not to the actual streets it follows, which are two-way.
That's my point, the streets are two-way. What's really weird here is that, at US 209, it's signed as if both streets carry both directions and both streets are fully maintained by NYSDOT. I knew a V was usually used for one-way couplets, I've just never seen it used in a case where BOTH streets of the couplet are two-way and fully state-maintained.
There are other one-way couplets maintained by the state. Main ones that come to mind are US 62 in Niagara Falls (Business US 62 is local) and Oak/Elm Streets in Buffalo (a single reference route). Documentation is unclear, but a few blocks of NY 2 in Troy may or may not be maintained by NYSDOT (traffic counts say yes, stuff on the surface indicates no), but there are no reference markers (though this does not mean no state maintenance, as Broadway in Buffalo is definitely a reference route with no markers).
PA 415 does this around Harvey Lake where the route is assigned to each direction around the lake. GMSV is from 2009 and shows no postings at all at the decision point from either direction.
NJ 7 also has its weird spur in Belleville, posted as NJ 7 on overhead blades on the spur portion...
QC 132
Oklahoma 77S in Love and Carter Counties in the south central part of the state splits not once, but twice. Here's a map I patched together showing the routings of OK 77S. The southern terminus is at OK 32 east of Marietta. It heads north and splits into two branches near Lake Murray. The eastern branch heads southeast, then north around the east side of Lake Murray and ends at US 70. The western branch heads northwest then north around the west side of Murray Lake to the Love/Carter County line. At the county line, another branch heads west along the county line and crosses US 77 and ends at I-35 exit 24. The main western branch heads north, crosses US 70 into Ardmore where it ends at the junction of Lake Murray Road and 10th Street, which is not a state highway. Some maps show it continuing west on 10th Avenue and west on Myall, ending at US 77, but the newest ODOT control section maps show it ending at 10th Avenue, but these maps are older and reflect a former terminus. There is an end OK 77S sign on Lake Murray Road at 10th. This is a bizarre highway with four termini.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4410/36821408731_78834b2099_b.jpg)
Two others are Arkansas 197 in New Blaine and US 71B in north Fayetteville, AR. AR 102 used to split in Centerton but one branch has been renamed AR 102B. I think there's another one somewhere in Arkansas, but I can't remember where off the top of my head (David?)
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 31, 2017, 04:02:03 AM
In Oklahoma, SH-63A, SH-77D, and SH-77S all do this. 77S has four termini.
How is OK 77D 3 legged? The ODOT control section map only shows one section of the highway.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4396/36127278554_6827f164f1_b.jpg)
Quote from: SignGeek101 on September 01, 2017, 11:19:34 AM
QC 132
I think QC 132 is really more a case of a route ending at itself.
Currently FL 39 does this in Plant City, FL.
Also US 11 and NY 12 both do these in Watertown, NY.
US202 in Bridgeport, PA probably qualifies. From the split on the south side of Bridgeport, it crosses the Schuylkill into Norristown and the DeKalb Street segment goes a few blocks as two way before becoming one way northbound. South of Norristown though, the northbound and southbound segments are both two-way separated by few blocks. The western roadbed (202 south) is a brief expressway segment, while the eastern roadbed (202 north) is a city street. For road geeks, the interchange for the partially built Schuylkill Parkway (PA23) is also of note halfway through Bridgeport..
Quote from: roadman65 on September 01, 2017, 12:45:42 PM
Also US 11 and NY 12 both do these in Watertown, NY.
Neither do. NY 12 has a one-way pair around Public Square. One-way pairs and circles are banned. US 11 has no split whatsoever; it passes west of downtown on Holcomb, Massey and Leray Streets.
QuoteHowever, in finding locations where this happens, the guideline I use is that the road in question must split in two or more directions without changing prefix/suffix, and allow two way traffic on all legs.
Only southbound US 11 does that. Northbound follows Washington and Mill. It's treated similar to NY 52.
https://goo.gl/maps/WZ9AfCsJAh72
https://goo.gl/maps/QG8Tbn87Stn
https://goo.gl/maps/suDe6MpgD622
NY 12 also splits in Watertown similarly. Northbound follows Mill and Main. Southbund follows Massey and Arsenal. Northbound overlaps US 11 for part of its route and is independent for another. Southbound overlaps US 11 for part and NY 3 the rest.
https://goo.gl/maps/zJSM64HMbRG2
https://goo.gl/maps/n6UsgofU4H32
https://goo.gl/maps/PPju39yvbdK2
Guess I learn something new every day. Of course, the split section is city-maintained, but still counts. Wonder what the reasoning for these was.
Quote from: cl94 on September 01, 2017, 12:53:58 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on September 01, 2017, 12:45:42 PM
Also US 11 and NY 12 both do these in Watertown, NY.
Neither do. NY 12 has a one-way pair around Public Square. One-way pairs and circles are banned. US 11 has no split whatsoever; it passes west of downtown on Holcomb, Massey and Leray Streets.
QuoteHowever, in finding locations where this happens, the guideline I use is that the road in question must split in two or more directions without changing prefix/suffix, and allow two way traffic on all legs.
Actually its signed as both from NY 3. I have photos of both routes junctioning with the east west highway twice not showing a split in either North or South. Both junctions feature both N and S for US 11 and NY 12 going either way with a concurrency with NY 3 in Downtown. Both are indeed two ways if they were considered to be two alignments for the same road with one north and one south as per OP. In fact you travel each way the straight through of both have it on the different alignments as vdeane says.
US 301 used to be that way through most of Delaware as NB was using DE 299 to US 13 and then north where it joined its southbound counterpart just south of State Road. The SB US 301 used DE 71 after departing US 13 where the DE 1 Turnpike now merges with it, and had a one side concurrency with DE 71 until DE 896 where it ran along with it and DE 71 till Middletown rejoining its HB counterpart. Later on NB was moved to follow DE 896 NB to US 40 EB at Glasgow and then east with US 40 to rejoin SB US 301 at State Road.
US 206 does that still in Trenton, NJ where NB is on two way Brunswick Avenue and SB is on two way Princeton Avenue.
Quote from: cl94 on September 01, 2017, 10:27:20 AM
There are other one-way couplets maintained by the state. Main ones that come to mind are US 62 in Niagara Falls (Business US 62 is local) and Oak/Elm Streets in Buffalo (a single reference route). Documentation is unclear, but a few blocks of NY 2 in Troy may or may not be maintained by NYSDOT (traffic counts say yes, stuff on the surface indicates no), but there are no reference markers (though this does not mean no state maintenance, as Broadway in Buffalo is definitely a reference route with no markers).
Well of course, New York also has a marked tendency to establish a standard for something, then to do everything but that.
UT-282 in Salt Lake City. It's really a designation for all state maintained roads within the University of Utah. It has six termini, two of which are at itself.
If one way pairs count, UT-269 is entirely made up of the one way pair of 500 and 600 South in downtown SLC (which is one of the only one way pairs in SLC).
In Utah, all roads on state university campuses are state highways. Think Arkansas and Virginia are the same. Creates weird stuff like this.
Quote from: roadguy2 on September 02, 2017, 02:25:35 AM
If one way pairs count, UT-269 is entirely made up of the one way pair of 500 and 600 South in downtown SLC (which is one of the only one way pairs in SLC).
Unless two-way traffic is allowed on both streets, then it doesn't count.
Quote from: cl94 on September 02, 2017, 01:52:44 PM
In Utah, all roads on state university campuses are state highways. Think Arkansas and Virginia are the same. Creates weird stuff like this.
Correct as to Virginia, where they're state primary routes, and all roads within a particular campus or Grounds will have the same route number. I forgot all about that when I posted earlier in the thread. At least in Charlottesville I don't believe the number is posted anywhere. The Annandale campus of Northern Virginia Community College does have its route number posted in a few places. Can't say I know either way about whether any others are posted.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 02, 2017, 03:44:39 PM
Quote from: cl94 on September 02, 2017, 01:52:44 PM
In Utah, all roads on state university campuses are state highways. Think Arkansas and Virginia are the same. Creates weird stuff like this.
Correct as to Virginia, where they're state primary routes, and all roads within a particular campus or Grounds will have the same route number. I forgot all about that when I posted earlier in the thread. At least in Charlottesville I don't believe the number is posted anywhere. The Annandale campus of Northern Virginia Community College does have its route number posted in a few places. Can't say I know either way about whether any others are posted.
Only 1 VA 302 shield has been observed in the last 20 years and it is gone now.
VA 376 at NVCC-Annandale is very well posted at VA 236 and internally.
VA 303 at VMI has not been posted in the last 25+ years at least to my knowledge
Two non-connecting segments of VA 314 at Virginia Tech are posted.
VA 321 for William and Mary is posted but only on a part that is not part of the campus.
VA 327 Virginia State U and VA 328 Longwood College are not currently posted in the last 25+ years.
VA 331 for JMU is only posted at its satellite campus near Port Republic.
VA 345 for Richard Bland College is posted.
VA 350 for Tidewater CC in Virginia Beach has not been posted in its lifetime.
VA 353 for VCU in Richmond has been posted on both its incarnations.
VA 366 is no longer posted for Tyler CC near Chester but was well into the 1990s.
VA 367 is no longer posted at the north end of VA 135 for Tidewater CC in Suffolk but it was in the early 1990s.
VA 368 for the CC in Lynchburg has not been posted in the last 25+ years.
VA 369 for SW CC has been well-posted for a while.
VA 393 and 394 in Prince William were posted up to the mid-90s.
Community Colleges for these routes are well posted:
VA 363 near Weyers Cave
VA 365 Wytheville
VA 371 Martinsville
VA 372 Abingdon
VA 373 Dublin
VA 374 Glenns
VA 375 Wilderness (single rectangle only)
VA 378 Alberta
VA 379 Franklin
VA 384 Clifton Forge
VA 385 Keysville
VA 387 Empire CC
VA 388 Charlottesville
VA 389 Melfa
VA 391 Herndon
VA 396 Goochland
VA 398 Danville
VA 377 Middletown and VA 382 UVA-Wise are not posted
VA 383 George Mason U. is posted at VA 123 only
Not all state and community colleges are in the primary system in Virginia...
At least 3 have relinquished their primary route designations: VA 330 Mary Washington College (Fredericksburg); VA 355 Radford Univ; VA 361 Eastern Shore near Chincoteague
In Washington, DC US 1 is sort of that way. SB when it ends its concurrency with US 50 it goes through the 7th Street Tunnel and then on I-395, but NB exits I-395 at 14th Street (both routes are concurrent across the Potomac River) and then up 14th until it meets US 50 and then has a one sided concurrency with that US route.
However, I heard that it really does not go through the 7th Street Tunnel and used to be signed that way cause DC Law had a left turn prohibition on Constitution Avenue WB at 14th St. NW where US 1 is really aligned, so to avoid that DC signed it that way continuing SB on 7th St. SW and I-395 to avoid this. Then I also heard that US 1 may be on 15th St. SW in the SB direction where left turns are allowed to it from Constitution Avenue. That last one would put US 1 officially on two different two way streets.
Of course DC don't sign US routes too well these days and all could be just in the field when they did and the official alignments are still as they were many decades ago.
Quote from: Mapmikey on September 02, 2017, 04:27:31 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 02, 2017, 03:44:39 PM
Quote from: cl94 on September 02, 2017, 01:52:44 PM
In Utah, all roads on state university campuses are state highways. Think Arkansas and Virginia are the same. Creates weird stuff like this.
Correct as to Virginia, where they're state primary routes, and all roads within a particular campus or Grounds will have the same route number. I forgot all about that when I posted earlier in the thread. At least in Charlottesville I don't believe the number is posted anywhere. The Annandale campus of Northern Virginia Community College does have its route number posted in a few places. Can't say I know either way about whether any others are posted.
Only 1 VA 302 shield has been observed in the last 20 years and it is gone now.
VA 376 at NVCC-Annandale is very well posted at VA 236 and internally.
VA 303 at VMI has not been posted in the last 25+ years at least to my knowledge
Two non-connecting segments of VA 314 at Virginia Tech are posted.
VA 321 for William and Mary is posted but only on a part that is not part of the campus.
VA 327 Virginia State U and VA 328 Longwood College are not currently posted in the last 25+ years.
VA 331 for JMU is only posted at its satellite campus near Port Republic.
VA 345 for Richard Bland College is posted.
VA 350 for Tidewater CC in Virginia Beach has not been posted in its lifetime.
VA 353 for VCU in Richmond has been posted on both its incarnations.
VA 366 is no longer posted for Tyler CC near Chester but was well into the 1990s.
VA 367 is no longer posted at the north end of VA 135 for Tidewater CC in Suffolk but it was in the early 1990s.
VA 368 for the CC in Lynchburg has not been posted in the last 25+ years.
VA 369 for SW CC has been well-posted for a while.
VA 393 and 394 in Prince William were posted up to the mid-90s.
Community Colleges for these routes are well posted:
VA 363 near Weyers Cave
VA 365 Wytheville
VA 371 Martinsville
VA 372 Abingdon
VA 373 Dublin
VA 374 Glenns
VA 375 Wilderness (single rectangle only)
VA 378 Alberta
VA 379 Franklin
VA 384 Clifton Forge
VA 385 Keysville
VA 387 Empire CC
VA 388 Charlottesville
VA 389 Melfa
VA 391 Herndon
VA 396 Goochland
VA 398 Danville
VA 377 Middletown and VA 382 UVA-Wise are not posted
VA 383 George Mason U. is posted at VA 123 only
Not all state and community colleges are in the primary system in Virginia...
At least 3 have relinquished their primary route designations: VA 330 Mary Washington College (Fredericksburg); VA 355 Radford Univ; VA 361 Eastern Shore near Chincoteague
Add VA 370 (Natural Tunnel State Park) to your list. Several postings, in square shields, wide shields and secondary-style rectangles. Each branch ends at a secondary route.
As an aside, I thought about stopping there on my way by last week, but Virginia now charges $4 just to park at a state park. So I said "thanks, but no thanks." I'll look for pictures online.
https://goo.gl/tYqFgC
At this intersection all three directions are CR 657. Although the intersection in question doesn't sign the numbers, the northwest section is established here: https://goo.gl/tmqfNK , The northeast section here: https://goo.gl/PUKsbY . I cannot find any marker on the SE section now, but I'm pretty sure there is one
Quote from: Bickendan on August 31, 2017, 08:30:53 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on August 30, 2017, 11:56:37 PM
OR 223. It has a northern and eastern terminus both connecting to OR 22.
checking the underlying highway numbers, main branch of OR 223 is ORH 189 and the Rickreall branch is ORH 191. I believe ODOT considers this to be OR 223S but doesn't sign it this way, otherwise it'd be ORH 189Y.
I think OR 39 in Klamath Falls is still technically 3-legged. And when OR 232 was made out of an old alignment of US-97 north of there, there was a leg running into Crater Lake NP from the east. That leg was decommissioned long before OR 232 itself was, and I think it's now just a dirt road.
Warren County, NY has one CR that is 3-legged: CR 11. The main segment connects NY 9N to I-87 Exit 24, but there is an older road forking off to the south. Both are signed as CR 11 and, unusually for Warren County, all shields have direction banners, the only route to have direction banners.
How about a road that doesn't split quite correctly? US-25 splits into 25E and 25W on the outskirts of Corbin, KY. But coming south on US-25, straight ahead is 25W. 25E goes both left and right. (Right, to the west, for about a mile to end at I-75.) If a road is splitting into 2 branches, there should only be 2 directions.
Quote from: cl94 on September 07, 2017, 08:33:02 PM
Warren County, NY has one CR that is 3-legged: CR 11. The main segment connects NY 9N to I-87 Exit 24, but there is an older road forking off to the south. Both are signed as CR 11 and, unusually for Warren County, all shields have direction banners, the only route to have direction banners.
Maybe that's WHY it has direction banners.
Quote from: cl94 on September 02, 2017, 01:52:44 PM
In Utah, all roads on state university campuses are state highways. Think Arkansas and Virginia are the same. Creates weird stuff like this.
Actually, that's not quite the case anymore. While most routes on State University campuses are state-maintained (and hence state routes), such as UT-282 at the University of Utah, UT-289 on Southern Utah University, and UT-284 at Weber State, some, such as UT-288 (2007 or so) on the campus of Utah State University and UT-281 (1980-something) at Dixie College that have been turned over to local control years ago.
But there's truth to the still-existant 281-299 route numbers (and 900 and 901) having no distinct route and having multiple endings. It would be better to have a special designation for these routes IMO.
XT1585
Quote from: JasonOfORoads on September 07, 2017, 07:31:36 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on August 31, 2017, 08:30:53 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on August 30, 2017, 11:56:37 PM
OR 223. It has a northern and eastern terminus both connecting to OR 22.
checking the underlying highway numbers, main branch of OR 223 is ORH 189 and the Rickreall branch is ORH 191. I believe ODOT considers this to be OR 223S but doesn't sign it this way, otherwise it'd be ORH 189Y.
I think OR 39 in Klamath Falls is still technically 3-legged. And when OR 232 was made out of an old alignment of US-97 north of there, there was a leg running into Crater Lake NP from the east. That leg was decommissioned long before OR 232 itself was, and I think it's now just a dirt road.
OR 39 is split (bypass is OR 39, and downtown alignment is OR 39 Bus), but ORH 20 under it is 3 legged.
Quote from: Bickendan on September 08, 2017, 10:29:53 PM
Quote from: JasonOfORoads on September 07, 2017, 07:31:36 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on August 31, 2017, 08:30:53 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on August 30, 2017, 11:56:37 PM
OR 223. It has a northern and eastern terminus both connecting to OR 22.
checking the underlying highway numbers, main branch of OR 223 is ORH 189 and the Rickreall branch is ORH 191. I believe ODOT considers this to be OR 223S but doesn't sign it this way, otherwise it'd be ORH 189Y.
I think OR 39 in Klamath Falls is still technically 3-legged. And when OR 232 was made out of an old alignment of US-97 north of there, there was a leg running into Crater Lake NP from the east. That leg was decommissioned long before OR 232 itself was, and I think it's now just a dirt road.
OR 39 is split (bypass is OR 39, and downtown alignment is OR 39 Bus), but ORH 20 under it is 3 legged.
According to ODOT's K-Falls map (http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/Data/Documents/City_Klamath_Falls.pdf), OR 39 is indeed three-legged. The latest "Descriptions of US and OR Routes" that I have (from July 2008) also says it's three-legged:
QuoteOR39 - Over the Klamath Falls-Malin Highway and the Klamath Falls-Lakeview Highway from their junctions with The Dalles-California Highway in Klamath Falls, easterly to the junction of the Klamath Falls-Lakeview Highway and the Klamath Falls-Malin Highway, approximately five miles east of Klamath Falls;
Thence southeasterly over the Klamath Falls-Malin Highway, (common with OR140 from the Klamath Falls-Lakeview Highway to the junction with the South Klamath Falls Highway) via Merrill to its junction with the Hatfield Highway; thence southeasterly over the Hatfield Highway to the California State Line.
There is no entry for OR 39 Bus.
No one has brought up Iowa 415 yet? Isn't this the type of scenario we're looking for?
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7610399,-93.7238052,12.83z
What about US 222 in Lancaster? If I remember correctly SB US 222 follows PA 501 from US 30 and NB uses PA 272 due to the way the ramps are to and from US 30. Both PA 501 and PA 272 are so close to each other that when both interchange with US 30 they sort of act as one whole interchange. However the WB US 30 ramp does not connect to SB PA 272 so it interchanges with PA 501 instead.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lancaster,+PA/@40.0661184,-76.307259,16z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c6248b917214b9:0xb46790d030dbd2d6!8m2!3d40.0378755!4d-76.3055144
Quote from: JasonOfORoads on September 11, 2017, 04:49:34 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on September 08, 2017, 10:29:53 PM
Quote from: JasonOfORoads on September 07, 2017, 07:31:36 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on August 31, 2017, 08:30:53 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on August 30, 2017, 11:56:37 PM
OR 223. It has a northern and eastern terminus both connecting to OR 22.
checking the underlying highway numbers, main branch of OR 223 is ORH 189 and the Rickreall branch is ORH 191. I believe ODOT considers this to be OR 223S but doesn't sign it this way, otherwise it'd be ORH 189Y.
I think OR 39 in Klamath Falls is still technically 3-legged. And when OR 232 was made out of an old alignment of US-97 north of there, there was a leg running into Crater Lake NP from the east. That leg was decommissioned long before OR 232 itself was, and I think it's now just a dirt road.
OR 39 is split (bypass is OR 39, and downtown alignment is OR 39 Bus), but ORH 20 under it is 3 legged.
According to ODOT's K-Falls map (http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/Data/Documents/City_Klamath_Falls.pdf), OR 39 is indeed three-legged. The latest "Descriptions of US and OR Routes" that I have (from July 2008) also says it's three-legged:
QuoteOR39 - Over the Klamath Falls-Malin Highway and the Klamath Falls-Lakeview Highway from their junctions with The Dalles-California Highway in Klamath Falls, easterly to the junction of the Klamath Falls-Lakeview Highway and the Klamath Falls-Malin Highway, approximately five miles east of Klamath Falls;
Thence southeasterly over the Klamath Falls-Malin Highway, (common with OR140 from the Klamath Falls-Lakeview Highway to the junction with the South Klamath Falls Highway) via Merrill to its junction with the Hatfield Highway; thence southeasterly over the Hatfield Highway to the California State Line.
There is no entry for OR 39 Bus.
GMSV isn't helping either, but did give me this gem: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2234291,-121.7825104,3a,19.7y,57.01h,94.78t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sl7WqcTYYIqBU2rbsFey7nw!2e0
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2240939,-121.7833387,3a,28.5y,182.54h,90.04t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sxSQvgQTIXsoVjDK6mM6XjA!2e0
US 39 and US 140!
Analysis of the ODOT map clarifies what ORH 20 and 50 are doing in Klamath Falls, at least. 20 starts downtown at US 97 and runs to Lakeview, and 50 starts at 97 near OIT then down to Malin, with an overlap between 20 and 50 between the bypass and OR 140.
GMSV's not showing much by way of signage for OR 39 along ORH 20 within Klamath Falls, and what it does show are amusing US 39 shields. This rules out Bus OR 39, especially as that would theoretically reconnect with OR 39 where Bus US 97 joins the bypass; the map shows the ORH 20 OR 39 going to Bus 97's southern terminus with US 97.
Even OR 34's routing and signage through Corvallis isn't this aggravating!
Quote from: Bickendan on September 12, 2017, 05:18:23 AM
GMSV isn't helping either, but did give me this gem: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2234291,-121.7825104,3a,19.7y,57.01h,94.78t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sl7WqcTYYIqBU2rbsFey7nw!2e0
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2240939,-121.7833387,3a,28.5y,182.54h,90.04t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sxSQvgQTIXsoVjDK6mM6XjA!2e0
US 39 and US 140!
ODOT gets their shields mixed up in that area a lot. I also remember seeing US 39 shields at intersections with side streets along ORH 50 somwehere between K-Falls and the California line on a trip from Portland to Reno about 2 years ago. It seems fitting that OR 39 and OR 140 are now US highways considering they also think US 97 is a state route (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2064155,-121.7391362,3a,75y,100.44h,84.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFHbQhcspFHWU2avpl2smlA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)!
I do think 140 should've been turned into a US route in Oregon and Nevada, though.
Quote from: Bickendan on September 12, 2017, 05:18:23 AM
Analysis of the ODOT map clarifies what ORH 20 and 50 are doing in Klamath Falls, at least. 20 starts downtown at US 97 and runs to Lakeview, and 50 starts at 97 near OIT then down to Malin, with an overlap between 20 and 50 between the bypass and OR 140.
GMSV's not showing much by way of signage for OR 39 along ORH 20 within Klamath Falls, and what it does show are amusing US 39 shields. This rules out Bus OR 39, especially as that would theoretically reconnect with OR 39 where Bus US 97 joins the bypass; the map shows the ORH 20 OR 39 going to Bus 97's southern terminus with US 97.
Even OR 34's routing and signage through Corvallis isn't this aggravating!
I remember that Mike Wiley's old site (https://web.archive.org/web/20030117073936fw_/http://www.ylekot.com:80/orehwys/Hwy-20.html)
did mention an OR 39 Business, but his current Highways stub page (http://oregonhighways.us/html_files/highways.html) does not. I'm curious if it ever existed after the bypass opened. Now that I have a bunch more Route Descriptions documents dating to the 1960s through 1990s, I can see if that was ever the case. More research is definitely needed.
Quote from: JasonOfORoads on September 12, 2017, 08:33:57 PM
Now that I have a bunch more Route Descriptions documents dating to the 1960s through 1990s, I can see if that was ever the case. More research is definitely needed.
I checked the Route Descriptions I had from 1980, 1988, 1990, 1993, 2005 and 2007. None of them mentioned OR 39 Business. I admittedly have a rather large gap between December 1958 and 1980, so it could've been defined sometime between then. However, my guess is that it only would've come about after OR 140 was moved to the Southern Bypass, which appears to have happened in 1987 according to the 2017 HSHO.
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2017, 10:15:43 AM
Quote from: Henry on August 31, 2017, 09:29:03 AM
I-270 at the Capital Beltway does this, and the western part of the fork is even labeled a Spur. Same goes for I-895 south of Baltimore.
that piece should be i-97
How on earth would you connect it to the current I-97? Have it follow I-495 to US 50?
Quote from: bugo on September 22, 2017, 04:29:55 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2017, 10:15:43 AM
Quote from: Henry on August 31, 2017, 09:29:03 AM
I-270 at the Capital Beltway does this, and the western part of the fork is even labeled a Spur. Same goes for I-895 south of Baltimore.
that piece should be i-97
How on earth would you connect it to the current I-97? Have it follow I-495 to US 50?
I-470 would be more realistic. The 1976 Virginia state highway map, which shows small bits of Maryland near the state line, showed the I-270 Spur as I-470.
Does I-670 in Columbus, OH near I-71 count?
Google Maps shows 2 different 2-way segments as I-670, but I have no idea if it is actually signed as such in the Buckeye State Capitol
https://goo.gl/maps/iPkWgnUFTnJ2
Quote from: ilpt4u on September 23, 2017, 09:15:13 PM
Does I-670 in Columbus, OH near I-71 count?
Google Maps shows 2 different 2-way segments as I-670, but I have no idea if it is actually signed as such in the Buckeye State Capitol
https://goo.gl/maps/iPkWgnUFTnJ2
I-670 is a strange case. As signed, WB uses the north side and SB uses the south side. It is impossible for through WB traffic to use the south side and for through EB traffic to use the north side. Functionally, it's just a wide median through the I-71 interchange. As far as "why?", I-670 east of I-71 opened 30 years after everything else and the north leg was a railroad yard.
Per the straight line diagrams, I-670 is the south leg, so WB technically has a discontinuity. The north leg is a long ramp per SLDs. Only way to get on the EB side of the north leg is to enter at US 23 NB or the convention center, south leg is accessed from I-71 NB and SR 3.
If Ohio is like NY, I'm guessing that's because the state is only inventorying by primary direction but needed some way of keeping track of the rest of it.
Quote from: vdeane on September 24, 2017, 07:52:02 PM
If Ohio is like NY, I'm guessing that's because the state is only inventorying by primary direction but needed some way of keeping track of the rest of it.
Correct. Ohio inventories divided highways following the NB/EB side. I just checked ODOT's GIS (https://gis.dot.state.oh.us/tims/map) because I'm really curious about this. Internally, the WB side of the north leg is I-670 (as is the EB side of the south leg), so the state is considering it to be a wide median with the other direction of each leg being ramps (and inventoried as such). Generally, a case like this where one direction takes an entirely different alignment (i.e. a one-way pair) would get a D/F/G suffix for the reverse direction (such as nearby US 23, where SB (Summit St) is US 23D). Heck, even US 62 has an 0.06-mile long designation of US 62G near a roundabout at Morse Rd. Those suffixes are specific to the county.
NY-344 in Copake Falls is a 3-legged route. Both of the legs connecting to NY-22 are signed and considered 344, in addition to the leg heading east towards the Mass state line.
Quote from: Beeper1 on September 25, 2017, 05:09:48 PM
NY-344 in Copake Falls is a 3-legged route. Both of the legs connecting to NY-22 are signed and considered 344, in addition to the leg heading east towards the Mass state line.
Technically incorrect. Southern leg is NY 980F, even though it is signed as NY 344 with reference markers indicating as such. NY 71 to the north is a similar case: only the south leg is NY 71, north leg is NY 980E but with 71 reference markers. NY 343 near Dover Plains? Yep, same: north leg is NY 343, south leg is NY 980G.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on September 11, 2017, 09:53:33 PM
No one has brought up Iowa 415 yet? Isn't this the type of scenario we're looking for?
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7610399,-93.7238052,12.83z
It is what we're looking for, but the leg going northwest out of Polk City was decommissioned in 2003 and rerouted over Saylorville Lake. Makes the N-S designation pretty weird, especially at the interchange with IA 141.
CR 516 in New Jersey does this in Matawan.