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Sacramento, Las Vegas and Minneapolis Fight for an MLS Team expansion

Started by bing101, December 03, 2014, 10:58:59 AM

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bing101

Quote from: dvferyance on February 04, 2017, 11:44:05 PM
Quote from: bing101 on February 01, 2017, 08:22:09 PM
Quote from: bing101 on January 30, 2017, 08:18:25 PM
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Group-Holds-Rally-San-Diego-Plans-Stadium-412189083.html

Now San Diego is fighting to for an MLS team.

Apparently San Diego  is also a bargaining chip city for the Raiders not just the MLS.
Yeah right they ran one team out of town and now they want another one. Not unles they are willing to build a new stadium and they already blew it last fall.






http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/San-Diego-Raiders-Fact-or-Fiction-412490483.html


Apparently San Diego is a bargaining chip city for both the MLS and Raiders.


dvferyance

San Diego doesn't deserve any more sports teams. They lost the Clippers in the 80's and now the Chargers that should send a message that San Diego is not a sports town. Not to mention the fans there acted like little children when the Chargers left. I say this story is fiction.

Alps

Quote from: dvferyance on February 06, 2017, 11:03:00 AM
San Diego doesn't deserve any more sports teams. They lost he Clippers in the 80's and now the Chargers that should send a message that San Diego is not a sports town. Not to mention the fans there acted like little children when the Chargers left. I say this story is fiction.
Oh yeah because the Padres don't exist.

Henry

San Diego also lost the Rockets in the 70s, which is a much better fit for Houston anyway.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

SP Cook

IMHO,

- Soccer is the sport of the next generation.  Four generations and counting.  Why any city would spend any money on such is not understandable.  Further the langage of "being granted" a franchise, with a 40 year history of bankrupt teams and bankrupt leagues seems arrogant.

- San Diego, as the saying goes, is surrounded.  By the ocean to the west, Mexico to the south, unhabitable desert to the east, and the Dodgers to the north.  San Diego is not the worst sports town.  Issue is the weather is perfect most all the time, which obviates spending money to go to ballgames, and a big part of the population is in the Navy and retains home area loyalties.


dvferyance

Quote from: Alps on February 06, 2017, 08:06:07 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on February 06, 2017, 11:03:00 AM
San Diego doesn't deserve any more sports teams. They lost he Clippers in the 80's and now the Chargers that should send a message that San Diego is not a sports town. Not to mention the fans there acted like little children when the Chargers left. I say this story is fiction.
Oh yeah because the Padres don't exist.
I said they don't deserve any more sports team. I know the Padres are already there but they don't deserve a MLS team or another NFL team another NBA team ect. San Diego is not much of a sports town they have lost 3 major league teams as is and after thier fans had temper tantrums after losing the Chargers I have zero sympathy for that city and besides there is already plenty of sports in southern California in the greater Los Angeles area.

Buck87




Going by a purely geographic stance of wanting to see the league spread across all regions and light up as many states on the above map as possible, the 4 cities (from the the 12 that have bid) I'd like to see get added are:

Phoenix - puts Arizona on the map
St. Louis - puts Missouri back on the map for the first time since KC's team moved to the Kansas side of the metro in 2008
Charlotte (or) Raleigh - need NC to fill in a gap on the east coast, potential rival for Atlanta
Detroit (or) Indianapolis - either one would add another Midwest state would give Chicago and Columbus another rival

then the next 4 (since it seems somewhat likely the league will at some point reach 32 teams)

Detroit (or) Indianapolis - whichever was left out of my first 4
Nashville - last one left that adds a new state
Sacramento - has shown much enthusiasm for a team, gives NorCal and SoCal 2 teams each (LA has a 2nd team starting in 2018)
San Antonio - too big of a city to only have one major sports franchise, gives the 2nd biggest state a 3rd team

And regarding to elephant in the room: Miami is supposed to be team 24, owned by David Beckham, but the process of getting that done is really dragging along. Since Miami isn't exactly noted for being a good sports town and it seems like most MLS fans hate the idea of putting a franchise there, I'd rather see Florida's team #2 go to the Tampa/St. Pete bid.


DTComposer

Quote from: dvferyance on February 07, 2017, 01:44:38 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 06, 2017, 08:06:07 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on February 06, 2017, 11:03:00 AM
San Diego doesn't deserve any more sports teams. They lost he Clippers in the 80's and now the Chargers that should send a message that San Diego is not a sports town. Not to mention the fans there acted like little children when the Chargers left. I say this story is fiction.
Oh yeah because the Padres don't exist.
I said they don't deserve any more sports team. I know the Padres are already there but they don't deserve a MLS team or another NFL team another NBA team ect. San Diego is not much of a sports town they have lost 3 major league teams as is and after thier fans had temper tantrums after losing the Chargers I have zero sympathy for that city and besides there is already plenty of sports in southern California in the greater Los Angeles area.

OK, I'm kinda done with your "California doesn't deserve any more sports teams" bit. First of all, any tiny amount of research will tell you that the teams leaving had very little do with the fans and everything to do with greedy owners and people (smartly) not wanting to use public funds on new facilities.

Second, please source your "acted like little children/temper tantrum" statements. Shall we compare them with the crying and gnashing of teeth when, say, the Sonics left Seattle, or the Colts left Baltimore, or the Browns left Cleveland, etc., etc., etc., etc.? Hell, the Colts left 30-plus years ago, their new team has won a couple of Super Bowls, but bring the subject up to a long-time Baltimore fan and they'll still act like you just ran over their puppy. It sucks when a team leaves, no matter what.

By the way, St Louis and Boston have each lost four teams. By your logic, they're bad sports towns as well, right?

Third, and perhaps most important, the numbers don't support your argument. California's four major markets are in a semi-straight line about 500 miles long and have 16 teams in the big four leagues (15 if the Raiders move). If we place that same line over, say, Pittsburgh to Milwaukee, there's 18 teams (19 if we stretch to Green Bay), and fewer people in those markets. So would it be fair to say that the Upper Midwest should lose some of their teams? California has an appropriate number of teams for the size of its markets. Get over it.

Finally, Los Angeles and San Diego are TWO SEPARATE MARKETS. It's the equivalent of New York and Philadelphia.

If you're anti-California, fine, you are welcome to that opinion, but please try and get your facts straight.

mgk920

How close do you think we are to seeing teams *earning* their way into the top-level league?  MLS is almost as big as they can practically get without having to seriously consider splitting some of themselves off into a 'second division' and have the teams promote and relegate between them - like in most of the rest of the World.

There are a LOT of active and thriving lower-level clubs in North America (ie, Detroit City) that, IMHO, would absolutely thrive in an overseas-model pro/rel federation.

:hmmm:

Mike

Bruce

Quote from: mgk920 on February 16, 2017, 11:01:37 AM
How close do you think we are to seeing teams *earning* their way into the top-level league?  MLS is almost as big as they can practically get without having to seriously consider splitting some of themselves off into a 'second division' and have the teams promote and relegate between them - like in most of the rest of the World.

There are a LOT of active and thriving lower-level clubs in North America (ie, Detroit City) that, IMHO, would absolutely thrive in an overseas-model pro/rel federation.

:hmmm:

Mike

Far, very far.

Until soccer in this country is financial stable enough to take the hit that relegation to a second division does to a team, there's going to be resistance from teams and team owners.

I think we're still decades away, if that.

wphiii

Quote from: Bruce on February 16, 2017, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 16, 2017, 11:01:37 AM
How close do you think we are to seeing teams *earning* their way into the top-level league?  MLS is almost as big as they can practically get without having to seriously consider splitting some of themselves off into a 'second division' and have the teams promote and relegate between them - like in most of the rest of the World.

There are a LOT of active and thriving lower-level clubs in North America (ie, Detroit City) that, IMHO, would absolutely thrive in an overseas-model pro/rel federation.

:hmmm:

Mike

Far, very far.

Until soccer in this country is financial stable enough to take the hit that relegation to a second division does to a team, there's going to be resistance from teams and team owners.

I think we're still decades away, if that.

Peter Wilt, the guy who basically started the Chicago Fire and later, the Indy Eleven, and still has a very active role in professional soccer at various levels throughout the Midwest, wrote a really interesting longform piece about the potential of introducing pro/rel to American soccer.

https://whatahowler.com/the-pro-rel-manifesto-245d5597f2f8#.lucwd4l3g

He brings up some interesting possibilities, such as parachute payments for relegated clubs, but unfortunately I too am cynical about this happening anytime soon. Current MLS owners have invested too much into their franchises to go willingly along with this. It's a shame, because in the big picture I do think it would be a substantial net positive for the game in this country.

wphiii

Quote from: Buck87 on February 07, 2017, 02:44:55 PM
Sacramento - has shown much enthusiasm for a team, gives NorCal and SoCal 2 teams each (LA has a 2nd team starting in 2018)

From what I've been able to understand, Sacramento's MLS bid hinges on completely destroying the current USL club and starting over from scratch with a new ownership group. Needless to say, this is rubbing a lot of people the wrong way who have put a lot of stake into the Republic, both financially and emotionally.

bing101


Buck87

Meanwhile, St. Louis voted down stadium funding yesterday, so they are pretty much eliminated from the expansion discussion


Henry

According to MLS, Nashville is in! The other city should be announced by the end of the year.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

Stephane Dumas


dvferyance

Quote from: Henry on December 21, 2017, 10:04:42 AM
According to MLS, Nashville is in! The other city should be announced by the end of the year.
At least we know it aint going to be Sacramento thank goodness. For those there who want to see the MLS they can simply drive an hour west to the bay area they have a team there. I think Cincinnati would be a good choice they could use another team.

Skye

Quote from: dvferyance on December 22, 2017, 07:34:53 PM
I think Cincinnati would be a good choice they could use another team.
As a Cincinnatian I am afraid this is just going to be another passing fad.  Assuming they make MLS and get their own stadium, within 5 years they'll be struggling to draw as many fans as the Cyclones (a minor league hockey team).  As is numbers on the streetcar have dropped and are not was big as expected.  By time MLS and a soccer stadium come along, people will be onto the next big fad.

Desert Man

Any word on the Columbus Crew plans to relocate? A future MLS team anywhere in Ohio to replace them? or if they're staying put, the MLS gives the 26th team to Austin, Texas. 23 existing members, 2 expansion teams and 1 possible city. The MLS is on the grow.
Get your kicks...on Route 99! Like to turn 66 upside down. The other historic Main street of America.

JMoses24

Quote from: Desert Man on May 01, 2018, 11:20:57 PM
Any word on the Columbus Crew plans to relocate? A future MLS team anywhere in Ohio to replace them? or if they're staying put, the MLS gives the 26th team to Austin, Texas. 23 existing members, 2 expansion teams and 1 possible city. The MLS is on the grow.

Cincinnati is officially in.

Buck87

So here's where things stand currently...

2019: FC Cincinnati begins play as MLS team #24
2020: Club Internacional de Fútbol Miami and Nashville SC* begin play as MLS teams #25 and #26
2021: Austin FC begins play as MLS team #27. Likely that a 2nd team will join them that year as team #28.
2022 and beyond: expansion to 30? 32?

The deal that saved the Columbus Crew while also granting Austin an expansion team has left only one spot open for the league to reach their previously announced goal of 28 teams. However, while it hasn't been officially announced, it is highly likely that expansion will continue beyond 28 (the commissioner has hinted at it)

So cities such as Sacramento, Phoenix, St. Louis, Detroit, Charlotte, San Diego and Indianapolis are vying to land that #28 spot to come in with Austin in 2021, and those that don't get it will likely still be in the running for spots 29-32. It's also worth noting that MLS will be negotiating a new TV deal in 2022, so that might have a big impact on where and when they decide to add expansion teams.

The most recent big news from the list of candidate cities came from Sacramento yesterday, as they have secured a billionaire to lead their investment group. Sacramento has long been a leading candidate for MLS expansion and has a shovel ready stadium plan in place, the biggest hole in their bid has been their financially weak ownership and that just got fixed in a major way. Other updates since this thread was last active are that St. Louis is back with a new bid with a solid ownership group and a city approved stadium plan, and that Phoenix has emerged as a strong bid with plans in the works for an outdoor stadium utilizing "advanced cooling technology."

* Nashville hasn't officially announced their name yet, but all signs point to them using the "Nashville SC" brand they currently use in the USL 

Buck87

MLS has officially announced future expansion to 30 teams, and plans to announce who 28 & 29 will be by this year's All Star game.

It looks like St. Louis and Sacramento are those most likely to get those 2 spots. Will be interesting to see if one of them gets paired with Austin in 2021 to keep the league an even number, with the other waiting to come in with whoever #30 ends up being.

thspfc

Quote from: DTComposer on February 07, 2017, 05:23:16 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on February 07, 2017, 01:44:38 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 06, 2017, 08:06:07 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on February 06, 2017, 11:03:00 AM
San Diego doesn't deserve any more sports teams. They lost he Clippers in the 80's and now the Chargers that should send a message that San Diego is not a sports town. Not to mention the fans there acted like little children when the Chargers left. I say this story is fiction.
Oh yeah because the Padres don't exist.
I said they don't deserve any more sports team. I know the Padres are already there but they don't deserve a MLS team or another NFL team another NBA team ect. San Diego is not much of a sports town they have lost 3 major league teams as is and after thier fans had temper tantrums after losing the Chargers I have zero sympathy for that city and besides there is already plenty of sports in southern California in the greater Los Angeles area.

OK, I'm kinda done with your "California doesn't deserve any more sports teams" bit. First of all, any tiny amount of research will tell you that the teams leaving had very little do with the fans and everything to do with greedy owners and people (smartly) not wanting to use public funds on new facilities.

Second, please source your "acted like little children/temper tantrum" statements. Shall we compare them with the crying and gnashing of teeth when, say, the Sonics left Seattle, or the Colts left Baltimore, or the Browns left Cleveland, etc., etc., etc., etc.? Hell, the Colts left 30-plus years ago, their new team has won a couple of Super Bowls, but bring the subject up to a long-time Baltimore fan and they'll still act like you just ran over their puppy. It sucks when a team leaves, no matter what.

By the way, St Louis and Boston have each lost four teams. By your logic, they're bad sports towns as well, right?

Third, and perhaps most important, the numbers don't support your argument. California's four major markets are in a semi-straight line about 500 miles long and have 16 teams in the big four leagues (15 if the Raiders move). If we place that same line over, say, Pittsburgh to Milwaukee, there's 18 teams (19 if we stretch to Green Bay), and fewer people in those markets. So would it be fair to say that the Upper Midwest should lose some of their teams? California has an appropriate number of teams for the size of its markets. Get over it.

Finally, Los Angeles and San Diego are TWO SEPARATE MARKETS. It's the equivalent of New York and Philadelphia.

If you're anti-California, fine, you are welcome to that opinion, but please try and get your facts straight.
Southern California is Southern California - to outsiders, it seems like one giant area of LA/Anaheim/Long Beach/San Diego/etc. Similarly with San Fran/Oakland/San Jose/Sacramento. There are tons of sports teams in those areas. By contrast, there are more mid/small cities with less pro sports teams in the midwest. The difference is when there are multiple teams in one area in the same sport, they will compete with each other constantly because fans have to choose which team to support - when the Dodgers and Padres play each other 19 times in 6 months you can't root for both.

Buck87

St. Louis and Sacramento will be MLS teams #28 and #29

St. Louis was announced back in August, and Sacramento was announced today. Both are scheduled to enter the league for the 2022 season.




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